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Worst. Debate. Ever.

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First Posted: 04-16-08 10:17 PM   |   Updated: 04-24-08 05:12 AM

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Obama And Clinton

Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate


Going into tonight's debate in Philadelphia, the two millionth one we've had so far this primary season, I had one significant worry: that the bulk of the time would be taken up with process questions and media obsessions, and that issues of import would end up getting sidelined. As it turns out, I was depressingly, distressingly correct. In fact, there were times when tonight's debate ventured into territory so utterly asinine that I could scarcely believe what I was witnessing.

Twas not until the nine-o'clock hour drew nigh that a single issue-oriented question was asked. The entire first hour was dedicated to silly campaign queries and scandals both du jour and d'antan. Before a single question was posed about the War in Iraq or the economy was asked, the viewing audience had to wade through the following:

Any chance at a "Dream Ticket?"


"Bitter, much?"

"Do you think your opponent stands a chance against McCain?"

"What about Reverend Wright?"

"Wait. I have an even stupider question about Reverend Wright."

"Seriously. Who were you fooling with that Bosnia shizz?"

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"Hey, Hussein! Why no American flag lapel pin?"

"Hey, Sean Hannity wanted me to ask you something, Barack! I got a question on the Weather Underground! Maybe later we'll talk about the Symbionese Liberation Army!"

All of these questions have been beaten to a pulp, grim death. And neither candidate really had anything new to add to the responses they've already offered time and time again. It was as if ABC News, left out of the twenty-four hour news cycle that spawned these zombo-droid queries, needed to get in their licks on the same matters, too, just so they could feel like they'd played a part in every last one of the primary season's glittering inanities.

Why in the world George Stephanopoulos felt compelled to ask Barack Obama if Reverend Wright "loved America" after he had already been made to give another recitation of his repudiation of Wright's remarks is a question that simply defies the imagination. What sort of sensible answer can be given to that question? It would require astral projection to properly gauge another man's emotional state. And if you want to ask Hillary Clinton to account for the odd contortions she advanced on the matter of her Bosnia recollections, just sack up and ask. Don't hide behind the additional, pointless cruelty of a random voter's scoldings that Clinton lost their vote. What a wholly superfluous pile on!

And the flag lapel pin question came with this admonishment from Charles Gibson: "It keeps coming up, again and again." Well, no shit, Charlie! It keeps "coming up, again and again" because the media resolutely refuses to obtain the necessary courage to stop doing so.

Gibson and Stephanopoulos did deign to squeeze in a few questions of substance, on the Iraq War, taxes, Iran's nuclear ambitions, gun control, and energy independence. But it was quite clear that the moderators could have cared less about the content of the candidate's responses. Instead, they concerned themselves with pinning Obama and Clinton down on a series of absurd "pledges," for the purpose, no doubt, of providing the "gotcha" questions of tomorrow.

To their credit, Clinton and Obama were thoughtful enough to broach the topic of the housing market. Good thing! It didn't occur to the moderators to ask!

The string of issue-oriented questions didn't last long. The debate concluded with a question on how the candidates would "use" George W. Bush in the future. (As a hat-rack, maybe?) And the invitation to make a closing statement required each candidate to imagine how they would win the support of a superdelegate. Process nonsense to the end.

Throughout the night, ABC returned from commercials with bumpers that featured random quotes from the Constitution, because something, apparently, needed to substitute for gravitas.

Like I said, there have been several thousand of these debates. Most, I've watched. Many, I've covered or liveblogged. A few, I have sat very still, and hoped for the sweet release that only the icy hand of death can provide. Tonight was the first time I would have dearly loved to see Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama team up and turn the tables on their interrogators.

Before ABC signed off for the evening, Gibson heard a reaction from the audience and observed, "The crowd is turning on me."

If only they'd done so sooner.

Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate

Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate Going into tonight's debate in Philadelphia, the two millionth one we've had so far this primary season, I h...
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate Going into tonight's debate in Philadelphia, the two millionth one we've had so far this primary season, I h...
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- larry278 I'm a Fan of larry278 47 fans permalink

Jason provides an essential service for HP's users. He provides a concise analysis of speechs & debatetes. I tried the mauling in Philly for 15 min before I got turned off by Geo & Charley's clumsy performance & turned off my TV set. Jason's report assures me that I was right to turn off the debate.
I'll scan HP to learn of the low points of this poorly run debate. In the event something good came out of the farce HP & other web sites will tell me. It sounds like the debate was a pissing contest & Hillary, Geo & Charley spent the 1st hour or so trying to piss on Obama. Thanks, Jason.
l lynch

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 04/17/2008

For 50 min Hillary, George and Charlie beat up on Obama and just before the commercial break ...ole eagle eyed Charlie intones that he notices Obama has had the best of the time numbers and that Hillary Clinton will get the larger slice then on. WTF. Obama couldn't help but defend himself from the epic levels of stupidity coming from the moderators. On the later substantive questions she gets to wax with detailed policy initiatives looking more thoughtful and more informed.

The people aren't as dumb as you think ABC!

I really think the "ELITISTS" in the MSM news have no clue how badly their reputations as journalists have been hurt over the past year. Political news and debate should reflect the needs of the people and ABC's debate just go to show just how out of touch they all are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/17/2008

Natalie.J.­Raabe@abc.­com, aberke@con­stitutionc­enter.org, feedback@a­bcnews.go.­com, newsradio@abc.com, cristi.d.l­andes@abc.­com, wayne.fisk@abc.com, jeffrey.t.­fitzgerald­@abc.com, heidi.b.or­inger@abc.­com, jonathan.m­.newman@ab­c.com, joyce.a.al­cantara@ab­c.com, james.f.ka­ne@abc.com­, andrew.l.k­alb@abc.co­m, robert.gar­cia@abc.co­m, peter.sali­nger@abc.c­om, steve.jones@abc.com

this is the email information in case you want to write ABC a scathing letter. I just did.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 04/17/2008

Aren't you the very same people who bitterly complained about the Clintons writing letters to MSNBC regarding Schuster and Matthews? Now Obama's fans are doing the kneecapping for him. I love it. What a bunch of crybabies!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 04/17/2008
- gypsy508 I'm a Fan of gypsy508 9 fans permalink

Uh, it's not that ABC thinks people are dumb, it's that they are. TV news is news for stupid people. Always has been although yes it has gotten worse. What I can't figure is just because a network takes someone with good looks, gives them a good haircut and a nice suit and puts them in front of the camera, why Americans think they are smart?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 04/17/2008

What a disgraceful performance by these two so-called newspeople. Almost an hour of tabloid journalism questioning before we ever got to anything Americans are really interested in. Gibson and Stephanopoulos epitomize all that is wrong with the MSM today. The whole event looked like a right wing talking points hit job orchestrated by Fixed News Channel. I always knew Gibson was a right wing tool. But Stephanopoulos, actually using questions from Sean Hannity of all people? And about William Ayers?? ABC needs to fire everyone at the News operation from top down. And while your at it please apologize to America for wasting so much of our time on nonsense.

Yours truly, A bitter Pennsylvanian

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 04/17/2008

I love the way you speak out so strongly against ABC and the moderators of that debate. Obama could take lessons from you! If someone does or says things that you consider wrong you have an obligation to speak up, especially if you want to be in a position to speak for our entire country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 04/17/2008
- Mayoyo I'm a Fan of Mayoyo 5 fans permalink

What can you expect from these 2 idiots...Now I know why I get most of my news from the internet.
This is utterly disgraceful.
Charlie and Georges: shame on you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 04/17/2008

I'm in complete agreement with Linkins. What the heck was ABC thinking? This is news not tabloids? Going forward who are going to take Gibson and Stephanopoulos serioulsy? They really did a bang up job in getting McCain closer to the WH. What were these two idiots thinking? That majority of the Americans are interested in tabloid BS? Well, I'm here to tell these two mindless; irresponsible so called reporters/­correspond­ents that that's not what Americans want. At least not this one. I'm more interested in the policies not whether or not wearing a stupid pin is a reflection of one's patriotism. I believe StephGib are in the wrong profession. They should go work for TMZ or Access Hollywood. That seems more appropirate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 04/17/2008

George Stephanopolous is a moron, and it is shocking to me that this man doesn't work at a convenience store. ABC can kiss the prospect of holding any other debates goodbye, as if their network didn't already suck bad enough. Although alot of commentators are saying Obama had an off night, i'd say given the circumstances, and the 8th grade mentality of the mediators, this debate will have zero effect on him. His lead is insurmountable, the American people are in love with him, the majority of democrats are behind him, and I can't believe Hillary is continuing to prolong her inevitable fate. It's one thing to appear as a 'fighter', it's another thing to appear as though you are completely disconnected from reality. Barack Obama will be the nominee, and America will be a better place from that day forward.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/17/2008



Jerry you wrote

"Although alot of commentators are saying Obama had an off night, i'd say given the circumstances, and the 8th grade mentality of the mediators, this debate will have zero effect on him."

I have news for you. What will your man do when he comes up against Vladimir or Mahmoud?

Those guys are NOT 8TH. grade but skilled in the manly art of strategic deception and are Ph.D's . to boot.

They will not play (politically speaking) with either an American Pussy Cat or Bunny Rabbit.

COGITO, ERGO SUM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 04/17/2008

This was, by far, the worst debate I have ever seen. No class by ABC with the "hit job" that they put on Obama. I was saddened to see Hillary trying to fan the flames too. I don't think I could ever stomach watching ABC again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/17/2008

Oh please Jason you are so wrong - the NYT got it right === this was really great and dumping on it is tantamount to uttely ignoring that the Greek and Gib are bright fellows who wanted to take advantage of the fact it had been 6 long weeks since these two had eyeballed each other and punched away FACE TO FACE, so this was the point to see whether or not they had the courage to SLAM EACH OTHER DIRECTLY in as harsh a way as they had been dong at a distance as the varous ssues arose. And they dd. Ths was what Amerca wanted, not just a repeat of their stump stuff on the big issues which everyone has heard over and over and over. CONGRATULATONS TO the GREEK AND GIB THIS WAS BY FAR the greatest debate, of all tme or at least snce LINCOLN AND DOUGLAS which was not televised but was of course a prelude to the Civil War
and the emergence of 19th century trends such as the Rep party which has sncce degenerated into nothng more than an organized system of villianous corruption.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/17/2008
- pertello I'm a Fan of pertello 3 fans permalink

*******not what America wanted! It was embarrassing to watch. America gets enough tabloid TV on Entertainment Tonight and other shows like that.
The stupid issues the media hammers away at 24/7 in the effort to keep us glued to the Boob Tube does not constitute journalism. All this blather about who lied about Bosnia and who said "Bitter" in the wrong way. The media repeats it 1000's of times to the point that Americans don't even know where the candidates stand on the REAL issues! Last night was an opportunity for the MSM to examine the candidates on the IMPORTANT stuff like why is gas so friggin expensive, wher are the jobs going, why are there so many forclosures when are the troops coming home, what's going on with the American dollar...They blew it. George and Charlie served no one but their own massive egos last night. The chancepassed. Last debate and we all learned next to nothing. Oh, I did learn something. I can surf past ABC really fast on my remote control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/17/2008

You obviously subscribe to The National Inquirer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 04/17/2008

It is not amazing that people as smart as Jason who is already committed didn't like the fact that Barack got bombarded during the first hour and that Hilliary joined n, as if none of these were real issues. OF course they are real issues because the MEDIA
suddenly have stopped indulging Barack to the degree they have as was infamously parodied on 'SNL........HE is no longer the MR. TEFLON....WHY if he were such a profound genius with such terrific JUDGEMENT did he fail in routinely listening to a frutcake like his pastor...whose comments that he has disavowed were made after he became a candidate.­........th­e Greek and Gib were fair and Hill and Barack handled it all very well....the greatest debate of all time.....the voters need to decide on the basis of whether they can rely on Hillary's age and wisdom and experience, or the neophyte comer who didn't even finish out his first Senate term and announced.­...perhaps ambition is sometimes too easy to confuse with accomplishment of which there is ---- really hardly none.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 04/17/2008

You want to punish ABC, punish the advertisers. That is their real boss and their real agenda. Who cares that they aren't responsible for those two idiots directly, they should insist that their names are connected with the best and brightest, not this gutter trash.

Anyone have a list?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/17/2008

JOIN THE BOYCOTT OF ALL DISNEY/ABC PROGRAMMING . . .

Both Obama AND Clinton supporters have signed the pledge to say NO to anything Disney/ABC until there is a FULL INVESTIGATION of the "moderators," the producer and the entire production process that led to this ATTACK ON THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

The results of that investigation - complete transparency and a FULL APOLOGY to the American people and BOTH candidates must then be forthcoming.

JOIN THE BOYCOTT OF ALL DISNEY/ABC programming and products TODAY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 04/17/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 24 fans permalink
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Now I know why you're called Obamanics.

You will not allow any unpleasant questions directed at your MESSIAH.

I never heard these protests when the MEDIA was attacking Clinton 24/7.

What a bunch of babies you all are.

Boo, hoo

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/17/2008
- pertello I'm a Fan of pertello 3 fans permalink

No, not at all. I thought the question about Bosnia was stupid, pointless and beating a dead horse. I thought almost everything they asked Hillary Clinton was as moronic as what they asked Obama. They, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopolous are assholes, plain and simple. They proved last night how completely incompetent they are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 04/17/2008

You seem to forget the outrage that was generated from the ABC 9/11 program that was highly biased against the Clintons...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 04/17/2008

Learn to lose with dignity, Mr. Rove.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 04/17/2008

Amen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 04/17/2008

Where do I sign?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/17/2008

There are reasons for boycotting because of the attempt to limit the lengths of the clips other networks can show. THAT in itself is totally without merit and hopefully the american people will boycott the theme parks this summer, and send emails world wide to foreigners coming to america to not visit the parks either here or in FRANCE or ASIA. that is a good idea because the idea of limiting the time of the clips is ANTI DEMOCRATIC and makes the NAME DISNEY ALMOST IDENTICAL WITH STALIN or MAO or ADOLF. but it would be silly not to recognize it was otherwise a great debate and allowed for the airing of the numerous issues that have come up in the past six weeks. HAIL TO THE GREEK AND GIB, SCREW DISNEY AND ABC.....TIME to starve DONALD DUCK until they recant completely and allow FULL CLIPS TO BE SHOWN BY ANYONE ANDWHERE AND ALL THE TIME down though the ages and in all lands including DISNEYLAND EVEN though no one is there because of the boycott

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 04/17/2008

Was there a winner? Or just losers? No one who participated in this 'debate' won anything. Obama looked pummeled, Clinton reminded everyone why half the country doesn't like her, Gibson played the fool, and Stephanopoulos made it seem like he wanted his old job back. Whether Stephanopoulos was actually playing Clinton partisan or not, it's a really stupid idea to get caught getting your questions fed to you by Sean 'freaking' Hannity. Why does he go on that pinhead's show for anyway? Is the hour he gets every Sunday not enough?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/17/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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What trash.

Not only was this an Obama ambush, but Hillary The Pitt Bull piled on, looking like she was loving every minute. ABC should never be allowed to hold another debate, and the moderators should lose their jobs..

I hope my fellow Pennsylvanians can see through this charade and hand Hillary a big loss next week.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 04/17/2008

It was a fair and balanced debate!
Hillary gets bashed daily. Why is that ok?
Barack has some questions to answer that he brought on himself!
If he is uncomfortable with that, than he has to grow up, stop pouting when things don't go his way, and act like a mature contender like the rest.
So far, all I see from him is, sexist, arrogance and yes, he is even condescending.

I hope all Pennsylvanians see both candidates good and bad traits, weigh them, and then make a serious effort to choose which one can truly be the better leader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 04/17/2008

As an afterthought, I couldn't help but imagine that this was an attempt at a modern-day lynching, with two white guys and a white woman being the lynching party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 04/17/2008

The beat goes on. Obama gets a thumping and still takes no heat. According to most Huffpost accounts, the debate was flawed, with problems having to do with the questions, the moderators, Hillary, whatever. But Obama? An off-night, nothing more. Does he have trouble standing up to the heat, as the Clinton camp predicts he will if he goes against the GOP Swift-boating machinery? Hardly a peep about the validity of that charge. Most of us who literally fear a McCain continuation of Bush but who otherwise have no horse in the race (Canadians of liberal persuasion), can live with either of the Democratic candidates. But the unmistakable anti-Clinton pro-Obama bias of Huffpost and other American liberals is disgusting. Democrats know Clinton is the superior candidate for the office of POTUS, but Obama is ahead of her for all the wrong reasons.
allando

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/17/2008

This Democrat knows nothing of the sort. What I saw was a man trying to dignify the most inane questions with perfectly reasonable and intelligent responses, and a woman who was happy to join in on the ambush. What a travesty!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 04/17/2008

It was no debate. The moderators didn't moderate. It was a total farce. I wouldn't count on that farce to affect much of anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 04/17/2008


Mad at progressives for supporting a progressive candidate? Time to re-examine your "liberal" resume.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 04/17/2008
- renoir I'm a Fan of renoir 18 fans permalink

That's absurd. HuffPost readers and writers have the right to be pro-Obama... this is is an opinion page! Obama showed dignity in the face of irrelevance last night. Clinton did what she could to undermine his credibility. They both did their jobs adn they both looked good. HOWEVER, ABC did not. They sunk to the lowest depth of shallowness possible. Of course both of these candidates are going to be mercilessly flogged by the Republicans during the final throes of this campaign. Obama shows strength through dignity and calm response. Clinton can also handle herself; we've all learned lessons from the Swift-Boating incident. Perhaps Obama's demeanor is off-putting to people who love to watch Jerry Springer and hope to see him rise to bait, but to this American he seems calm cool and collected... and SMART. Dare I say presidential? Not by current standards, but certainly by our best-case scenario. ABC squandered an important debate opportunity and wasted all of our time. I think you're ridiculous to say that bias is disgusting. That's what it's all about! Sheesh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 04/17/2008

So, i guess you think we should put Obama up against McCain even though he can't win against him simply because he is black? Lynching? My gawd why do some black people take this as a racist "thing"? obama has a history of really really nasty haters of America all around him, Should we pardon him on having the worst judgement of character simply because he is black? NO. NO NO I am so friggin sick of hearing the word LYNCHING that i could just puke. I don't care if he's black, what I do care about is those of you who DO care that he is black.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 04/17/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 24 fans permalink
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Yes, it was the worst debate ever......­..........­.......for O bama, that is.

As much as I'm very disappointed in the crop of candidates the DEMS have ended up with (John Edwards was my man), it was refrreshing to see someone (Obama) other than Clinton being pounced on time and again.

Obama is so used to being coddled by the MEDIA that when he DOES get some tough (uncomfortable, and may I add expected) questions, he stammers and hesitates.

Although, the Obamaites may not have liked their candidate being drilled (for once), it shows how he reacts under pressure.

I probably will vote DEM (and hold my nose), but I also may go with NADER, the only TRUE populist candidate in the race.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:51 AM on 04/17/2008
- anghiari I'm a Fan of anghiari 22 fans permalink

Such a smug silly statement leftleaner. i am making another contribution to Obama immediately. You guys don't understand Obama's demographic reads right through the bias and stupidity. I have been saying for several weeks that George Steph, Mark Helperin and Jake Tapper of ABC have taken out after Obama like mad men and I cannot understand the hissy fit. Even yesterday I wrote that I hope Obama is ready for George Steph...who has staked out Hillary to support.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 04/17/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 24 fans permalink
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Why do you feel the need to defend him, like a wounded child?

He's the frontrunner, and there are hot button issues that he is GOING TO be asked whether you like it or not - although rarely exercised by the "hands-off" approach almost exclusively taken by the so-called Mainstream Media.

I don't care if you make another contribution - Go for it.

My observations are consistent with what many people have observed throughout this never ending campaign, and you're defense of him, just reinforces my argument.

I will not be contributing to either candidate's campaign. I am a neutral observer, and as I stated, I will probably vote for the nominee - not sure, though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/17/2008
- ccmd I'm a Fan of ccmd 18 fans permalink

Sure. "coddled by the MEDIA" you say. Being coddled sure is hearing sound bites of your pastor's most offensive remarks over the course of 30 years being played over and over (rev wright), being coddled sure is rejecting and denouncing people that you've never even had a real relationship with (farakhan), being coddled sure is being afraid to tell the american people the truth (that they are bitter) and biting your tongue and apologizing, being coddled is being called a boy when you're 46 and getting the act laughed off, being cuddled is confusing and relating one of the worst terrorsists in history to you (obama bin laden), being coddled is depicting that you are secretly a muslim on numerous different occassions, being coddled sure is having your opponent lie over and over again and only have one day of media buzz about it (bosnia sniper fire) and surely if that was you , you wouldve been out of the race, being coddled is having your opponent go through a law suit for foul play and having the media not touch it..... yea that's "coddled".

Im sure there are many coddles to name but these coddles were the greatest of all coddles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/17/2008

Nader is an idiot! And you would be to for wasting your vote. I am all for a major third party, but be smart about who you are voting for. Nader will not even come close to winning and unless you want to spiral further into the corporate abyss we are in currently make that mistake. We all have to come to the realization that we are a capitistic nation disguised as a democracy. And until we start to get rid of lobbyists in the White House and on the Hill. We will never get back to a true democracy. It took large steps by much of the Republican Party and many in the Democratic party to get to where we are today. Unfortunately, it will take baby steps to get back to where we need to be.



Obama 08'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/17/2008
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are you one of those morons that voted for Ralph Trader in 2000? If you are, the blood of our troops are on your hands too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 04/17/2008
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