Iwo Jima Vets Slam Time Cover, Dismiss Global Warming As "A Joke"

Iwo Jima veterans are outraged over Time magazine's decision to use the iconic World War II image of American soldiers hoisting a flag at Iwo Jima for the latest cover on "the war on global warming." The Business & Media Institute reports Iwo Jima veterans call the Time cover a "disgrace" and dismiss global warming as a "joke":

Donald Mates, an Iwo Jima veteran, told the Business & Media Institute on April 17 that using that photograph for that cause was a "disgrace."

"It's an absolute disgrace," Mates said. "Whoever did it is going to hell. That's a mortal sin. God forbid he runs into a Marine that was an Iwo Jima survivor."

Mates also said making the comparison of World War II to global warming was erroneous and disrespectful.

"The second world war we knew was there," Mates said. "There's a big discussion. Some say there is global warming, some say there isn't. And to stick a tree in place of a flag on the Iwo Jima picture is just sacrilegious."

Another Iwo Jima veteran echoes Mates' reservations about global warming being a worth cause for a reprise of the famous scene:

Lt. John Keith Wells, the leader of the platoon that raised the flags on Mt. Suribachi and co-author of "Give Me Fifty Marines Not Afraid to Die: Iwo Jima" wasn't impressed with Time's efforts.

"That global warming is the biggest joke I've ever known," Wells told the Business & Media Institute. "[W]e'll stick a dadgum tree up somebody's rear if they want that and think that's going to cure something."

Time managing editor Rick Stengel defended the cover on MSNBC yesterday, saying:

"One of the things we do in the story is we say there needs to be an effort along the lines of preparing for World War II to combat global warming and climate change. It seems to me that this is an issue that is very popular with the voters, makes a lot of sense to them and a candidate who can actually bundle it up in some grand way and say, 'Look, we need a national and international Manhattan Project to solve this problem and my candidacy involves that.' I don't understand why they don't do that."

Watch:

Comments

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

nothing wrong with the cover. it's a great concept.

these guys are living in the past. whoever did the cover "is going to hell?" oh please. and what are the chances that the offended are part of the 25 percenters who still think bush is right?

and managing editor stengel is correct, we do need an "international manhattan project" effort for this.

[desmirl]

One thing people seem to forget is that the photograph was posed. It was a manufactured photo-op. To call it some kind of 'sacred' image is to glorify war at the expense of reality. And to pretend that pumping billions of tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere day after day isn't going to result in changes is to ignore reality. But, rightwingers never were very stong on reality.

[wndrwrthg]

There were two flags raised that morning. This picture is of the raising of the second, larger flag. Joe Rosenthal did not pose them, in fact he almost missed the shot. It was not until the film was developed on board a ship by an assistant, did anyone realize what they had. There is also movie footage of the raising, yes they were covering the raising, but it was hardly staged.

[desmirl]

Were you there? I didn't think so. And urban legends are wonderful things to drive patriotic fervor. Even if they have to be manufactured.

[JGatsby]

Looks like "silly season" is now expanding beyond the presidential race. "How dare you defile my sacred image!" Oh wait, first I have to say the boilerplate liberal apology for even deigning to disagree with someone who was in the military. I honor their service. In this case though I really do. WWII, unlike Iraq and Vietnam, was one of the few truly just wars and those guys are rightly proud of what they did. My uncle was a Marine in that war and my dad was in the Navy. I loved hearing their stories. Anyway, now back to my point. This country is going through a time that is going to be one of the truly existential challenges to our republic. IMHO right up there with the Civil war. We are facing a perfect storm of global warming, peak oil, massive deficit, and a world that mostly hates us due to the evil scum that we let take over our government for the last seven years. Our response can be to turn away from democracy and embrace facism (and I don't use that term lightly). Part of facism is worshiping symbols like the flag, fatherland/homeland over ideas and reason. Or we can embrace someone like Obama who talks to us like adults and actually tries to unify us to deal with our problems.

[alohaboxer]

You forgot the other boilerplate liberal phrase "My (insert name of relative here) was in the military. So I understand­." Us vets hear that all the time and it is comical

[shanghaislim]

......as comical as your posts on this thread?

[ejay579]

I am a liberal and I am a vet and I am proud of both. But the latter did not ossify my brain to the extent that I cannot be the former. It fact, it fostered it. I used every last dime of my GI education benefit to do exactly that, get educated. Too bad you did not do the same.

[isis]

Well, then maybe you can relate to scientists always having to hear about how global warming is a lie from people who have never taken an advanced course in science in their lives. I even had a store clerk tell me it wasn't true the other day and a man followed me to the parking lot telling me all about freon. But maybe he was flirting with me.

[VPN]

Where is the outrage from the Iwo Jima Veteran's over the current Commander In Chief crapping on just about everything they fought and died for? Now that its known for sure that he Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld are directly responsible for "TORTURE" , turning the USA into a country that does some of the very things that those Veterans where fighting against and possibly something some of them (POW) experienced, where is the OUTRAGE over that? Perhaps Time could have chosen something better for their cover but I hardly think it was meant or is disrespectful to them or their iconic photo.

[RickO]

Global Warming is indeed very real, and needs to be dealt with, but it is very disrespectful to the Iwo Jima vets (or any vets) to desecrate one of our most sacred and iconic images of that war. To me, in that image, what's below the flag is as important as the flag itself.

[ohiomark]

"Man made" global warming is a hoax.

It was warmer in the 1300's during the Medeviel Warming Period. They were growing grapes in England and Greenland was actually green. Who caused that? Cow farts.

The climate has always changed and it always will, whether you drive an SUV or a Prius.

[Tergenev]

I've never understood the argument.

So the climate has changed in the past, you admit?

Therefore . . .we should do nothing to prepare for it changing again?

You're clearly daft.

[primordialsoup]

Sources?

[wndrwrthg]

To bury your head up your ass on the problem of global climate change being exacerbated by the emmisions from all sources is the hight of foolishness.

[Exusian]

No matter how many times the 'hoax' mantra is repeated it will not make it true.

It was not warmer in the 1300s than it is today.
Greenland was not any more green in the 900s through the 1200s than it is today, and the Greenland Norse dairymen were slowly starving to death by the mid 1300s, and were all dead shortly after 1400 when the last ship visited from Scandinavia.
Grapes are grown in England today, not to mention Germany and Canada.
Get off your lazy, ignorant ass and read some actual geography and history instead of fabricated fairy tails.

[ejay579]

Yes, the climate always has changed. The change now represents a time when in its eliptical pattern the earth should be getting cooler. Something is happening which not only causes the normal pattern to stop but which also reverses it. Given all the evidence which now exists showing what pollution does to the evironment in general and to the human body in particular, why wouldn't one be for addressing such problems whether or not such factors contribute to global warming? An opportunity benefit, if you will. A win-win situation. In this regard, it does matter whether you drive an SUV or a Prius.

[polnorth]

So it's not appropriate to use a powerful symbol from over a half century ago to wake people up to a potential threat that would make Pearl Harbor and Iwo Jima look like peanuts?

Look, I'm sorry I wasn't around to fight in WWII, but there's plenty of crap on my generation's plate thank you very much. If you're too old or stupid to believe/care about man made global warming, that's fine. You can join Neville Chamberlain in the dustbin of history. I'm busy trying to change the world because I've seen this stuff with my own eyes (glaciers, hurricanes, drought- my own eyes).

Yesterday's enemies were fought with bullets. That doesn't mean tomorrow's can be beaten the same way. Threats evolve, and the youth have always had to develop a new way of confronting them. If anyone reading this thread doesn't agree, just get out of the way so we can deal with consequences that will be manifest only after you are dead. Thanks for defeating facism, we'll take it from here.

[Binx101]

The metaphor was clearly offensive to many people. I doubt Time magazine meant to be anything but controversial, then again - when you hear from men that fought on Iwo Jima - its difficult not to feel their outrage and offense. Okay - it's done, soon the Time magazine will be in stacks off to the recycling (we hope) and there will be a new cover.

As for quotes from the veteran's on Iwo Jima and their feeling about the state of the globe - not very relevant from an ecological standpoint, despite the invocation of a 'dadgum tree." One would have to be extremely mentally deficient to not accept that we have impacted the planet with incredible imbalance of carbon emissions - and that includes the emissions created by all people discussing the subject without credentials on either side.

Everyone knows by now how the counter science got funded and why. There is a large scientific consensus. We have real threats to our environment, drinking water and air quality that are fueled by desperate consumerism. Our desperate consumerism fuels desperate capitalism; which in turn fuels corporatism. Corporatism used to be known as fascism.

The cover was not particularly helpful and the Vet's have a reason to be offended. We can honor their service and sacrifice better than this cover. Conversely, we read what they had to say about he environment and strongly and respectfully disagree. A right for which they fought bravely.

Binx101
The Almost Daily Binx
www.binx101.wordpress.com

[meyers]

Thank you for posting an eloquent and to the point post. It's nice to see there are liberals that I could probably go out and have a beer with. (That is if you could find it in your heart to be seen with a dreaded neocon)

[Binx101]

That was best news I've heard in a long time. There's nothing like talking it out to make progress. How do we suppose our Congress is supposed to get anything done if we presume Team colors are more important than our deeds.

Thanks much - You made my day.

[ohiomark]

The more they try and push this man made global warming hoax down our throats, the more stupid their tactics become. It's a sign of desperation.

Al Gore's whole carbon credit industry depends on keeping this scam alive.

Get over yourselves Libs, you can't change or control the climate.

[Tergenev]

It's not a myth. But Time probably shouldn't have used that image, considering so many of the WWII generation are global warming deniers.

Get over yours Con. You've already changed the climate. You just don't want to admit it.

[ohiomark]

By the way, global warming is over, it's time for global cooling!!!!

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

Looks like all your "good work" really paid off.
Now let's fire up the SUV's and warm things back up!!

[VictoryGin]

I agree with the first statement,

Al Gore is in a pending law suite over the carbon offset scam, the producer of the Weather Channel is suing him.

Also, I think the global aggenda is to gross us out with Hillary and Obama, and then present the Holly Al Gore to walk through the white house thershold, free as he pleases, then we will all be fucked, I think we are all fucked anyway.

I do take issue with your last comment,
The U.S. has been able to alter and almost control the weather since the Vietnam War

Check this link out, and then investigate for yourself
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7561

[polnorth]

Sounds like another baby boomer who won't own up to the fact that they've screwed up the planet and are too lazy to do much it.

Is it so illogical that spewing billions of tons of pollution might, in fact, alter climate?

Let me put it this way- why wouldn't the climate change if its chemical composition was changed?

And how are you going to feel if we have a Global Warming "mushroom cloud" equivalent? If, that is, you don't think it already happened with Katrina.

[ohiomark]

Do you have "An Inconveinient Truth" running on a continuous loop at your house?

Don't be so gullible.

[VictoryGin]

This global warming is a farce,

The U.N. is calling for a 90 percent reduction in carbon production in the next 10 years.

What that means to we the people, we must be eradicated,
All living organizims release carbon dioxide, and all plants breath in carbon,

Now the U.N is requireing people to more to ethenol to carry there fat butts around,
mean while global food shortages are a real threat to our security.

Every thing you se happening these days is a well planed out system to enslave the people of the world.

40 percent of all new jobs are in the "nation security" sector, all geared to spy on you and me.

Speaking of global desastors, you all should know they are cross breading every organisim with every other organisim and setting them free to study how the mutant adapts to the enviroment, with no for sight to know who the new organisim will evolve or react with native species.

Ontop of that you have the new Atom Colliders,
These things smash atoms together and can generate 1000 times more energy then the atom bomb,
Some scientists say this could create a black whole that could swallow up our entire solar system.

But never fear, we will all be scuped up and sent to FEMA camps long before Global Warming takes any real effect.

[ejay579]

As far as the atom smasher is concerned, do you think I will have time to bend over, put my head between my legs, and kiss my ass goodbye?

[dazed]

You people make me sick,show some FUCKING Respect for the men who bled for this country.

[ohiomark]

Isn't it obvious, the left and the media have no respect for our military, past or present.

[DavePM]

Don't lump all Liberals with the people that have no respect for the military. I am a liberal and certainly respect myself, my service, and my country. There are plenty of posters here claiming to be Liberals, yet sow ignorance and hate just like the Right. Likewise, I dont feel respected by the right wing nuts that claim to love our service and never served a day wearing a uniform.

[Tergenev]

Patently false. Almost everybody has a great deal of respect for the military. It's not an inherently disrespectful image. You Cons just find global warming threatening. Maybe we should get a nice blankie so you can go cuddle up with it in a corner somewhere.

[ejay579]

The left has respect. It is the right which hides behind the military and roils the uneducated in this false patriotism. But regardless of respect, the tail doesn't wag the dog.

[VPN]

The way the war criminals Bu$h/Cheney have crapped on those who bled fro this country must really, really, really make you sick then, if what some have posted here does.

[DebinD]

Veterans deserve real respect -real care when they return home, real benefits, real acknowledgment of the stresses of war and adjustments of returning to civilian life - this is how you respect veterans. I am a liberal and give to every veteran organization that asks - which I can't say the same for my Conservative friends. War heros need to be cared for -but lets not get into the real of "mortal sin" here -oh please!
Taking a posed picture albeit iconic, and manipulating it serves to challenge the mind, and push the envelope for a new generation and a new cause - every generation has it's war.

[wndrwrthg]

The picture was not posed.

[polnorth]

Would this image it be disrespectful if you believed Global Warming was as bad as Gore says it was? I reckon not.

Just imagine hundreds of millions dead or displaced in a preventable disaster- if this image could rally people to get off their butts and do something, would it really be a desecration of those who fought and died during WWII?

I really respect and admire our veterans. But I don't expect anyone who was around during WWII to accept Global Warming. They had their battles, and we have ours. To see us fighting between generations is a boon to those who continue to profit while polluting the planet.

[HansMoleman]

The Rosenthal photograph must be one of the most reproduced, altered, parodied and subverted images of all time. The fact that it is instantly recognisable even when the flag is replaced with a tree shows that its significance in popular culture far outweighs its importance as a depiction of a fleeting moment in America's military history. For example, the punk band Anti-Flag used it on the cover of one of their albums. Unlike this frivolous reproduction, Time Magazine was attempting to make a very serious point (one which you may or may not agree with). To take offence at this is just absurd: the photograph is part of our common cultural currency. It is just an image, not a sacred ikon that can't be defiled by association with profane causes.

The real significance of this controversy is that it touches upon two very sensitive points in the American psyche (and more sensitive now, perhaps, than ever): the significance of the flag as an emblem of national unity and patriotic pride, and the almost religious reverence which Americans have for their armed forces (compare this to the far less romantic view of the military prevalent in most European countries). Indeed, it's very hard to imagine that this affair would be treated seriously in any other Western nation, where Professor Duh's view that these particular veterans are "ignorant and old" (and perhaps ought to maintain a dignified silence in old age) might be more widely shared.

[DebinD]

Well said! I think it is a great cover!
I'm sorry these veterans do not take Global Warming seriously -perhaps that's the point -when all is said and done, Global Warming will do more damage and kill more people than WWII. I feel sorry for them -they are still stuck in that war.

[meyers]

You may be the stupidist person on this website. Congrats.

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

good points, hans.

[alohaboxer]

Yes. Elsewhere if, say, a picture of Mohammed was satirized in a cartoon, it would never lead to outrage or comments. We are so backwards in the U.S.

[Hufffan]

At the very least this Time cover is silly. What moron starts with the idea of taking such a classic image and butchering it to showcase an issue of such modern day importance. And then getting everyone within Time to agree.
Richard Stengel is an odd goof. His Person-of-the -Year mylar mirror "You" cover is a hokey example of silly journalism. Time Magazine is slowly becoming obsolete.

[gopindrag]

Is Wells the leader of the platoon that raised the flag or is he the leader of the platoon that reenacted the flag raising for the photographer?

[snakespeak]

In the film "Flags of Our Fathers", Ira Hayes thought the original photo and media campaign was a sacrilege and descended into depression and alcoholism, from which he never recovered. This adaptation can't be any more disingenuous than the original. Although, I do think it would be a good idea to fund the Iraq occupation with war bonds. That way, citizens could voluntarily support or not support, as the case may be, the "war on terror".

[overdahill]

As a former Marine, I applaud and respect your service to our country, Gentlemen. However, I do not accept the opinions of octogenarians who are nearing final muster for any assumption of how global warming may or may not affect future generations. War heroes are not automatically entitled to infallible pronouncements. It's just your opinion. What do your grandchildren think? They'll have to live with it. You won't.

[StoutHouse]

Amen!

[OptimisticMF]

I too am a former Marine and I revere the generation that served during WWII as true heroes. That being said, what were they fighting for if not for freedom? This includes the freedom to say, write or create images which are disagreeable to others.

To say that someone is "going to hell" for creating a picture gives me the impression that the critic does not respect the freedom of others. What is a picture anyway but a symbol? I don't trust anyone who reveres symbols over ideas. So, while these gentlemen have my thanks and respect, I don't really care if they are PO'd about the picture. If it wasn't this, then it'd be something else...

[isis]

Wow. Being in a war makes them scientific experts. Forget about data and all of that. Just be in a war and come out an entitled know it all.

[ohiomark]

Rev. Wright was a Marine and that gives him a pass for being an anti-American racsist.

What's the difference?

[Tergenev]

You haven't proven he is 'an anti-American racsist' (sic). You and your ilk have just claimed it. Doesn't make it true. Just like the claims of a couple WWII vets that global warming is a myth doesn't make that true either.

Typical Con behavior. Make up a lie. Repeat it ad nauseum. And then use it as justification for, or ad hominem attacks against those who oppose, whatever crackpot ideas you've got. "Al Gore said he invented the Internet". "Obama is an elitist snob", "Rev Wright is an anti-American rascist (sic)."

[ejay579]

Maybe the difference was that when Rev.Wright returned home from serving his country he did not feel he had to sit at the back of the bus or drink from a different water fountain. Maybe he had the audacity to believe that when he tried to use his GI home loan benefit, he could move into any neighborhood in which he wanted to live. You should be able to relate to Rev. Wright. When those who were standing on his throat while they held his head in the gutter let him up, he was bitter. Just as you are. now bitter Where Rev. Wright differs from you, however, is that he knew who was standing on his throat. You, you do not have a clue.

[isis]

He talked about some hings he knew about such as racism and dropping bombs on innocent people. How much scientific research have those old know it alls been doing?