Undecided superdelegates don't feel bound by primaries

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STEPHEN OHLEMACHER | April 20, 2008 03:15 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — Many of the Democratic superdelegates who are still undecided say the most important factor in their decision is simple _ they just want a winner in November.

Problem is, after nearly four months of primaries and caucuses in 46 states, territories and the District of Columbia, they still aren't sure who that is, don't seem be in any hurry to make up their minds and aren't interested in any artificial process that might force them to choose between Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Most of the more than 100 undecided superdelegates who discussed their decision-making with The Associated Press in the past two weeks agreed that the primaries and caucuses do matter _ whether it's who has the most national delegates or the candidate who won their state or congressional district. But few said the primaries will be the biggest factor in their decision.

"I think it's really important that we keep our eye on the prize, and the prize is the win in November," said Gail Rasmussen, an undecided superdelegate from Oregon.

That's good news for Clinton, who cannot catch Obama in delegates won in the few remaining primaries and caucuses.

Obama has been arguing for months that the superdelegates would be overturning the will of the voters if they don't nominate the candidate who has won the most pledged delegates. He has a 164-delegate lead in that category. Clinton, meanwhile, has argued that superdelegates should exercise independent judgment.

Many of the undecided superdelegates say they don't want to be perceived as elite insiders, cutting backroom deals to select a nominee. But that doesn't mean they're ready to forfeit their status.

"The way the system is set up, the superdelegates are able to weigh in because we are the most experienced people in the party," said Blake Johnson, an undecided superdelegate from Alaska. "We are the ones who have been part of the party the longest and keep it running on a day-to-day basis."

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There will be nearly 800 superdelegates at the party's national convention in Denver this summer. They are the party and elected officials who automatically attend the convention and are free to support whomever they choose. They are in high demand now that neither Clinton nor Obama can clinch the nomination without them.

Clinton leads in superdelegate endorsements, 258-232, according to the latest tally by the AP. However, Obama has been eating away at her lead for much of the past two months, picking up 84 percent of the superdelegate endorsements since Super Tuesday.

About 250 superdelegates have told the AP they are undecided or uncommitted. About 60 more will be selected at state party conventions and meetings this spring.

AP reporters across the nation contacted the undecideds and asked them how they plan to choose. Of those, 117 agreed to discuss the decision-making process.

_About a third said the most important factor will be the candidate who, they believe, has the best chance of beating Republican John McCain in the general election.

_One in 10 said the biggest factor will be the candidate with the most pledged delegates won in primaries and caucuses.

_One in 10 said what matters most is who won their state or congressional district in the primary or caucus.

_The rest cited multiple factors or parochial issues.

Most undecided superdelegates surveyed said they hope the nomination is settled before the party's convention. However, by more than a 2-to-1 margin, they said they oppose any formal mechanism, such as a separate primary or caucus, for the superdelegates to decide the nomination.

"I think that is changing the rules in the middle of the process," said Rep. Dan Boren of Oklahoma. "Obviously there are some problems with the process; there need to be some reforms made. Frankly, I would favor the people making the decision rather than insiders and party bosses."

Many undecided superdelegates refused to discuss their decision-making process, showing discomfort with the subject. Eighty-nine undecided superdelegates didn't return repeated phone calls or e-mails in the past two weeks, and 42 refused to discuss their decision when they were contacted.

"If I answer any of those (questions), people might be able to divine which way I am leaning," said Wayne Kinney, an undecided superdelegate from Oregon.

Even some experienced pols demurred.

"I'm not saying anything," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel, an Illinois superdelegate and a former aide to President Clinton. "There's no value to it."

___

Associated Press writers Julia Silverman in Portland, Ore.; Steve Quinn in Juneau, Alaska; Ron Jenkins in Oklahoma City and Dennis Conrad in Washington contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — Many of the Democratic superdelegates who are still undecided say the most important factor in their decision is simple _ they just want a winner in November. Problem is, after nea...
WASHINGTON — Many of the Democratic superdelegates who are still undecided say the most important factor in their decision is simple _ they just want a winner in November. Problem is, after nea...
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- bobdob I'm a Fan of bobdob 18 fans permalink

The Clintons suck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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There is a straight line in there I will not touch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/20/2008

This site was just starting to turn around to be place where people were once again adding intelligent discussion and substantiated debate with less hate and more knowledge.

Thank you for bringing the level of discussion back down a notch. Your non-divisive language means you can't possibly be an Obama suppporter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 04/21/2008

Note to super delegates: take the long view.
Nominate Hillary now.....lo­se the Democratic congress later.
It happened with Bill, it'll happen with Hill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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It will happen this year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 04/20/2008

They will lose it sooner rather than later. It's not Obama supporters like me who are older and
traditionally vote democrat, that won't vote for Hillary in the fall. It's all those new generation xers, ys and milleniums that he has ignited to get involved who will feel disenfranchised by the process if he doesn't get the nomination. They are the ones that will stay home in Nov. and not vote for hillary or any other democrat running.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 04/20/2008
- ZinZen I'm a Fan of ZinZen 8 fans permalink
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Not to mention momofsix that the African American turnout will probably not turn out en masse if Clinton steals the election via the SD's. Dems cannot win without a strong African American turnout that is a traditional part of the base. Clinton has also managed to alienate the grassroot activists, so hopefully the SD's think about this before choosing Clinton over Obama as that would be political suicide for November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 PM on 04/20/2008

My,My,My, the Obama supporters have discovered another lie that was told to them because they already know everything and would not believe anything untill HuffPo said so. Just proves that even current college graduates can't read.

This enlightening seems to be diametrically opposite what Obama Rule #1 says. Seems they were told from the very first that superdelegates had to follow their districts even though Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Bill Richardson all broke Obama Rule #1.

Jesse Jackson, Jr. told Representative John Lewis he had to change to Obama because his district voted for Obama.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
All the superdelegates are free to support any candidate for the nomination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 04/20/2008

I don't know where you get that idea. I don't know anyone who thinks they -have- to follow their district? Have you not been reading here for the past few months?

Its been quite a raging debate about whether they -should- follow the people or not. Obviously we could not have such debate if anyone thought they -had- to. DOH!

Honestly, you people cannot get ANYTHING straight, can you? Everything is a lie or a misrepresentation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 04/20/2008

President Carter as much as said so, citing that 'eberyone in his family and in his district had supported Obama'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

You people?

Each superdelegate will vote according to their individual perception as to their best self-interest.

As it has ever been.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 04/20/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Obama supporters have known from the beginning that superdelegates can vote for any candidate they wish to vote for and are not bound to vote according to their districts. It would, however, be political suicide for the Democratic Party to go against the pledged delegates and popular vote leader. As for superdelegates knowing more about what's good for the party than the voters, I find this interesting in light of some of the profiles I've seen of superdelegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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There, at the end, you may have a good point.

It is a fact that the larger the group of people making a decision, the more optimal that decision tends to be.

800 is not a bad number for super delegates. But the influence of them is excessive. If we stay with 800, they should only have half a vote.

Or let's go to 1600 and give them a quarter of a vote each.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 04/20/2008

id the primaries finish and the popular vote get calculated already? I must have missed it on the news. I would have thought HuffPo would have posted the final totals by now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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You are a flaming idiot.

Yes, all supers are free to show exercise their judgment. Richardson ran opposite to a margin of victory of a few thousand votes. Not even ten thousand was Hillary's margin.

Lewis's district favored Obama 3 to 1. 75% of his constituents chose Obama. Not a lot of room for debate there.

This is politics we are talking about. House members tend to hew closely to their districts, because, as the framers intended, they are very retail.

Kennedy and Kerry are going to get reelected unless a bus falls on them. They are senators. The founders intended that they be more remote from the voters. They were not even popularly elected for half the nation's history.

Nobody is lying, jerk. No Obaman is a hypocrite, creep. You, however, are a brutally dishonest advocate for your losing campaign.

Clinton has lost this thing. Time to figure it out. Time to stop damaging the prospects of the party in the Fall. Time to turn our efforts against McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/20/2008
- iPolitics I'm a Fan of iPolitics 33 fans permalink

You spend all this time on HuffPost and you didn't know the obvious. You're dumb. Even dumber for thinking the supers would overturn the primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/20/2008

I'm pretty sure most of us knew that all ready. I'm also pretty sure that it will work more to Obama's benefit. On the Tim Russert show today with Chuck Todd and David Gregory they were saying that the bigh thing Obama has going for him is that most of the new voters that have registered during this primary season is attributed to him. The Dems need those votes to finally get a large majority in the congress. It's not just about who is going to be electable in the fall but who will bring in enough new voters with them to boost up those congressional numbers. People are worried that if Obama does not get the nomination all those new younger voters will not come out in the Fall. And now Hillary is also out there insulting some of the democrats base. She is undermining her own campaign.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

Who did Hillary insult?

What did she say?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 04/20/2008

momofsix: I'm afraid the MSM has given you the wrong impression. Many of Hillary Clinton's supporters are those of us who had dropped out of the process because the Liberal Wing of the Democratic Party has continuously nominated a weakling to be our candidate and lost to the Republicans. All of these new registered voters are not first time voters but people who were disenchanted and don't want the same thing to happen again. These voters are finally seeing Obama for the first time and don't like what they see. They are much less likely to give him a free pass and the vote Tuesday will send a message to the superdelegates much louder than the idle threats from the kids. Hang on for the ride, kiddo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 04/20/2008

Also a joint ticket insures no swift boating. Sure they will try, but it keeps the Dems from voting McSame and allows Obama to get independents and defecting GOPs into the fold to vote for the joint ticket. I may be dreaming here, but this is a better option than a party fracture.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 04/20/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Why should Obama be saddled with Clinton's negatives?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/20/2008

Because over 12 million have already voted for her and many more will. Those are hard numbers that go to him for sure if she's on the ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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The joint ticket is the stupidest idea to come from this torture session since the idea of a one day primary.

Jesus creeping Christ, is that one dumb a**ed idea.

Oh, and no way in a million years would either of them have the other on the ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

You talk as if they will have a choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 04/20/2008
- drkazmd65 I'm a Fan of drkazmd65 53 fans permalink
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One nearly sure way to get me to hesitate in voting for President Obama would be to put a Vice President Clinton on the ticket.

Obama needs to go either for a middle of the road Democrat with Military experience (Clarke, Webb) or a real populist Democrat (Kucinich, Feingold) to balance out the ticket. Clarke might be the best choice as he is well spoken, generally well thought of, and could swing some of the Southern Democrats into the fold. Kucinich could swing some of the traditional union-type democrats and the anti-war & pro-Constitution crowd more strongly into the mix.

Hillary Clinton should keep her day job as Senator and do what she can for you constituents in NY for the remainder of her current term.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 PM on 04/20/2008

I am so tired of this game playing that these politicians play with our lives. This has gone on to long and both candidates are becoming weaker every day as far as being electable in the fall. Howard Dean put the call out last week for the superdelegates to come forward now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

Apparently Howard Dean doesn't hold a great deal of influence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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He is in the middle of a third of a billion dollars fighting for the nomination. He is doing quite well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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"I am so tired of this game playing that these politicians play with our lives."

You will find that the politicians in a dictatorship play different games with the lives of the citizens. Pull up your socks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 PM on 04/20/2008
- drkazmd65 I'm a Fan of drkazmd65 53 fans permalink
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Howard Dean needs to sit down, and shut up about what the Superdelegates do, or do not do.

This (dumb-ass) superdelegate system was put in place, everybody knew about its potential going into the race to influence the final outcome - let it run out its course.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 PM on 04/20/2008
- LBM I'm a Fan of LBM permalink
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Everyone is always saying about how you can't change the rules mid-process. Well, get used to it, the rules say the supers can vote however they'd like to. They should not try to influence the votes and keep their endorsements to themselves until the voting is over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 04/20/2008

The joint ticket guarantees a landslide win in November and it will give Obama time to "grow." He is trying to change Washington politics but he is still a politician. I don't like the Gore option anymore though because it will make either Obama supporters or Hillary supporters feel slighted. Now, of course, there will be people who will still vote for McSame even with the joint ticket, but our chances are better w/ a joint ticket. The Dems aren't guranteed a victory in November if it's just Obama and they aren't if it's just Clinton. That is fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 04/20/2008
- meileen I'm a Fan of meileen 9 fans permalink

And just think, Obama will learn the ins and outs, and spend 16 years in the White House. He could actually 'change' things with that amount of time and knowledge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 AM on 04/21/2008

Superdelegates can be stupid if they want to, they'll be sorry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 04/20/2008

ObamaSuperDelegate: It is time to realize that your threats to "riot in the streets" or "hold your breath till you turn blue" if Obama is not the nominee have not worked on all of the superdelegates. Some of them are not spineless wimps that were bought by Obama's PAC with a donation to their 2006 campaigns.

The superdelegates who really want to win in November are not falling for the juvenile antics of the first time voters who didn't even know the rules before entering the game.

Just sit back, rant on this Blog, believe the fuzzy math the MSM feeds you, and the oldtimers and Party faithful will repair the mess you all have made with your idol worship and cult-like behavior.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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Speaking of threats, remind me of how many Clintonistas are going to vote for McCain if Hill is not the nominee?

As for not knowing the rules, why did Hillary get her a** kicked in a form of democracy with 300 years history in America, known as caucuses?

Ready on the first day? Unless her hubristic assumptions of winning on Super Duper Tuesday fall to ashes in her hands.

You are just jealous that Obama draws 35k to a rally and Hillary is lucky to draw 400. So much for cults. Check the mirror on that one.

Now the desperation kicks in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 04/20/2008

If the so-called 'superdelegates' do not follow the voters' choice, we will teach them a perilous lesson they will live and die with

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

{Yawn}

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 04/20/2008

I will support a Clinton/Obama ticket or an Obama/Clinton ticket. I like the Clinton/Obama better and I am an Obama supporter. The reason I like it is because even if Clinton is a two-term president, Obama will have "proven" himself to the American people who still have doubts about him and there will be no more gotchas to get him on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

Also, Obama's 'movement" agenda will work better if Hillary is allowed to first clean up the mess left by Bush.

There will surely be a shotgun wedding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 04/20/2008

...which would logically lead to 8 years of Obams...a total of 16 years of Dem POTUS...th­e ONLY advantageous choice at this point!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/20/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Clinton's already lost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/20/2008

You can wait another 8 years, I can't. Look what 8 years had done for you. In another 8 days, America will be crushed in all aspect of life if we continue with the old politics. Time for something new but not Hillary or McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 AM on 04/21/2008

That is why it will probably end up being a joint ticket. That is the best solution here. I can't think of a better way to settle this. That is what the GOP fears the most. They want the dems to vote for McSame if their candidate isn't picked, so McSame can win, but if there is a joint ticket they won't stand a chance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

There really is no other way to unite the party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 04/20/2008

I agree amminadab. There is no other way. People will still vote McSame either way. This is about having a democrat in the white house. Sure, Clinton can do nicely w/o him and he can do nicely w/o her but the joint ticket will keep peace and ensure a Democratic win in November and it preps Obama to take her place in 8 yrs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 04/20/2008
- heal57 I'm a Fan of heal57 26 fans permalink

It will not be a joint. ticket. Do you really think Obama would want Hillary on the ticke, and it's HIS ticket. No way. He can do very nicely without her. The superdelegates do not want her either; they will be relieved when its over. If you do the math she can not win. Peace.

Obama '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 04/20/2008

Yes I think Obama will take Clinton and Clinton will take Obama. Camps despised each other in the past and then kissed and made up. It can happen again and it's the only democratic thing to do at this point. We will sweep the floor with the repubs if we do that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 04/20/2008

...he might win the nomination, but he'd lose the GE..wake up!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/20/2008

A joint ticket with Hillary on top would be a bad idea , I can see Hillary shoving Obama to the background and having him attend funerals of foreign heads of state . Bill Clinton would be actually the vice president. Futhermore a lot of young voters and progressives would be turned off and not come to the polls. Bad idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 04/20/2008

The problem here, of course, is that if the Superdelegates don't choose who has the lead in pledged delegates, this is going to be an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats for years to come. I am already upset about the concept that Superdelegates even exist. And if they go against the majority of the rank-and-file who voted for pledged delegates to represent them, its bye, bye presidency and bye, bye both houses of Congress as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 04/20/2008

The purpose of super delegates is to correct the mistakes of the rank and file voters (that's why they were created). If their purpose was simple to echo the vote of the pledged delegates, they wouldn't exist. As the political 'experts', isn't that a distasteful description?, their (the super delegates) job is to choose an electable candidate. But you're right, it's a horribly wrong system. But how much did you complain about it before it affected your candidate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 04/20/2008

I live in NY and voted for Hillary Clinton twice for the Senate and would support either Clinton or Obama over McCain after eight years of the Bush fiasco. But if it is perceived that the superdelegates in some way overturn the pledged delegate count, whatever the technicalities of the system may be, there would be a great chance that the Democrats would lose badly at all levels in the fall.

My Democratic congressman is in his first year of office, having secured a surprise, but close, victory in 2006 in a solid Republican district. His seat is already in jeopardy with all the local animosity going back and forth between Obama and Clinton supporters. He will need a united Democratic electorate supporting him if he is going to have any chance of re-election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 04/21/2008
- AuntSally I'm a Fan of AuntSally 26 fans permalink
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At the end of primary season, Sen. Obama will have won (as is the case now):
-- the most states
-- the most pledged delegates
-- the popular vote

I look forward to hearing any superdelegate convincingly articulate the superior electability of Clinton upon a reversal of these results by superdelegates.

If anyone thinks Obama's supporters are cantankerous now, wait until he's won the primary season -- with an uplifting message; a superbly managed campaign; and by bringing staggering numbers of new voters into the Democratic party -- and is then denied the nomination by, what will be perceived by millions as, the old-school party establishment.

That will be the day John McCain seals the election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 04/20/2008
- McFlipFlop I'm a Fan of McFlipFlop 14 fans permalink
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I agree with you.

Furthermore, If the supers tried to use the polls to determine who might be more electable in November, they would also have to choose Obama.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 PM on 04/20/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

And it will be the day that a new party will be born in America. That's not all bad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 04/20/2008

All of us are so passionate about our candidates. I think people need to rethink voting for McCain. That is dangerous. You should at least consider voting for Nader if you at the end of this feel like your candidate was "cheated." I will most likely vote for HRC if she wins by surpassing Obama, but Obama is my first choice. I'm not convinced HRC will destroy the party. She has some conscious. She is not completely horrible. We Obama supporters need to understand where she is coming from. She has been wanting this for a long time. I agree with her supporters that she should stay in. I do hope her supporters vote for Obama because he is better than McCain. That is fact. They are almost identical in their policies. It would be a disaster if McCain is elected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 04/20/2008
- meileen I'm a Fan of meileen 9 fans permalink

That loud clapping sound is from the many intelligent, mature folks who visit this site.

Thanks for a refreshing read.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 04/20/2008

I could never vote for an irresponsible asshole like John McCain, but Ralph Nader, I could very easily vote for him!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 04/20/2008
- drkazmd65 I'm a Fan of drkazmd65 53 fans permalink
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I would never vote for McCain - even if Georgie W. Bush were running against him. McCain is crazy or senile, and has no clue about economic policy.

It will be Obama, or the Green or Socialist candidate for me if Hillary figures out some way to steal the nomination from Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 04/20/2008

The superdelegate process is so lame. They should not exist at all. I find it interesting that Hillary and her supporters are slamming party "activists," yet she was the one who bragged, before the first vote had even been cast, that she would win the majority of superdelegates. Talk about party "activists­." These are the rocket surgeons who brought us John Kerry and Michael Dukakis. Great work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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OK, you have no idea of what you speak. See my response to thegirlnextdoor a few comments down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 PM on 04/20/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

Rocket surgeons?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 PM on 04/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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Or is that sturgeons?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 04/20/2008

Or brain scientists?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 04/20/2008
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