"Mudcat" Saunders: Why Obama Isn't Winning Working Class Whites

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - "Mudcat" Saunders: Why Obama Isn't Winning Working Class Whites stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS


First Posted: 04-24-08 11:14 AM   |   Updated: 05- 2-08 05:12 AM

I Like ItI Don’t Like It
Mudcat

White working class voters. They make up the constituency that many argue will decide the Democratic primary, and one that has thus far proven thorny for the electoral hopes of Sen. Barack Obama. Indeed, as the Atlantic's Ron Brownstein noted, Obama has failed to receive majority support from the white non-college bloc in every state but Wisconsin.

How could this be? The explanations are myriad. But David "Mudcat" Saunders, the famously outspoken Democratic strategist who preaches the importance of recruiting rural whites, suggests that politically strategic blunders are to blame, including, most prominently, allowing Sen. Hillary Clinton to define herself as an anti-trade candidate.

"The wild thing that I will never understand as long as I live: how in the hell did Barack Obama let Hillary Clinton become the anti-trade candidate?" Saunders said in an interview with The Huffington Post. "How did that happen? When we were doing the Edwards campaign, there was no question that we were the anti-trade candidate. And we were hitting her on the NAFTA stuff. They did not engage her when she started talking about this anti-trade stuff and 'leveling the playing field' stuff, nobody from the Obama camp said, 'Wait a minute. This is like Nixon saying he opened the door to China.' I mean he was the son of a bitch who shut it..."

Indeed, while Saunders says he believes Clinton's anti-trade sentiment is sincere (though he has no first hand knowledge) and he welcomes her platform, he was shocked to see the Obama camp cede such political turf to its rival. But that wasn't the only misstep made by the Illinois Democrat. The controversy over Obama's comments at a San Francisco fundraiser -- where he said small town voters were bitter over their economic situation -- was overblown, Saunders argued, but nevertheless played into a damaging stereotype of non-rural Democratic pols.

"I think it is absurd," Saunders said of "bitter-gate." "I think it is the prevailing wisdom of the Democratic Party. That's just a symptom of the problem. When Barack Obama was saying it, he wasn't saying that to get people all stirred up and stuff. When he was saying it and you would have asked him if there was something wrong with it, he would have bet you a million dollars to the penny that there wasn't anything wrong with it, because he believes it. I think there are an awful lot of smart people who believe in rural stereotypes. But the problem with the Democratic Party is that they don't understand...that a lot of these big city people who have stereotyped us, we have also stereotyped them. Therein lies the problem. See, that's what happened Barack Obama said that, he played into our stereotype about the big city."

Saunders should know. In 2001, he helped guide Mark Warner to the governor's office in Virginia. Five years later, he aided Jim Webb's upset run to the Senate, before signing up as a senior adviser to John Edwards' 2008 presidential campaign. The central theme of his work has been fuse Democratic politics with a rural power base.

"The Reagan Democrats want to come home, they are just dying to come home," he said. "All we just got to get a tent big enough to let them in."

But is it possible or even necessary? On Wednesday, Obama's chief strategist David Axelrod, argued that perhaps too much emphasis had been place on the white working class vote, as the group had "gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years." (Clinton did, in fact, win the constituency by super-slim margins in each of his elections). It is an analysis that Saunders argues is historically accurate but hardly permanent.

Story continues below
advertisement

Moreover, at least in Pennsylvania, it was Hillary Clinton's dominance among white women that cemented her victory; she would have won even if the white male vote had split evenly.

"Historically, [Axelrod's point] is pretty accurate. But it is also historically accurate that the Democrats have never gone after them," he said. "Mike Murphy puts it better than anybody: the Democrats go after class and the Republicans go after culture. And culture encompasses class. Our culture runs from the poorest to the richest, class only inspires the poorest. You can poll the United Mine Workers and you can ask them what is more important, their gun or their job, they will pick their gun every time. It is just the power of the culture."

And yet, for all the importance of cultural dynamics, Saunders thought that Obama's bowling attempt and Clinton's Crown Royal shot-taking photo-op were ultimately inconsequential. Indeed, for either candidate to reach rural voters, he argued, their interest in small-town communities has to appear more than targeted or manufactured.

"I think [the Crown Royal] was a non-event," he said. "I think the bowling was a non-event. Thirty-seven [Obama's score] -- shit, I can't even get 37. I shot an 84 the other day with gutter guards on it. I can't bowl."

In the end, Saunders predicted, Obama will end up the Democratic nominee. Whether or not he will, before the race ends, receive the endorsement of John Edwards is something Saunders didn't know. As for the general election match-up, he argued that regardless of who's carrying the Democratic baton, work needs to be done. Never underestimate the capacity for the party to over-think itself, Saunders argued.

"They got to reach extra hard, which is what both of them have to do. Right now, if they don't do it strong, and I'm talking about small town, third-tier markets and beyond, cities of 100,000 and less, on down into the rural areas, they have got to run well there," he said. "Because that is why the Democrats always lose. You know, who knows? I don't know if they will try it or not. They might come up with some strategy that says if they win ten blocks in Cincinnati they will win Ohio."

White working class voters. They make up the constituency that many argue will decide the Democratic primary, and one that has thus far proven thorny for the electoral hopes of Sen. Barack Obama. Inde...
White working class voters. They make up the constituency that many argue will decide the Democratic primary, and one that has thus far proven thorny for the electoral hopes of Sen. Barack Obama. Inde...
Report Corrections
 
Comments
335
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next › Last » (6 pages total)
- DennyCrane I'm a Fan of DennyCrane 24 fans permalink

He's right about one thing. Obama missed a big opening. He and Edwards were splitting the anti-Hillary vote. So when Edwards dropped out and his supporters came over to Obama, I think Obama figured he didn't need to do anything more. But working class whites liked Edwards, partly because he was the only white male left, but also because his "two Americas" message. Obama recognized these people are bitter, but he didn't really see why. They're bitter because of people like Bill Clinton who told them that NAFTA would be good for all Americans. A decade later we see that he was wrong. NAFTA left these people worse off. Hillary saw that and suddenly started badmouthing NAFTA, even though she was praising it for years and was a cheerleader for it. Obama could've used that opening to not only win over those working class voters, but also show what a fake Hillary is. But where these experts get it wrong is in not talking about Obama's race and how it relates to working class whites. No one wants to say it, but this group of voters has serious issues with blacks. They've had decades of Republicans telling them that minorities, foreigners and affirmative action are costing them their jobs. So how can you expect them to vote for a black candidate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 04/24/2008
- 303 I'm a Fan of 303 5 fans permalink

When you think about it, Obama's life is a lot like white, ethnic Americans. His grandparents were hardworking, poor whites in Kansas, living hand-to-mouth, low level job to low level job-to survive the Depression. His grandmother worked many jobs to support her family. She eventually, over MANY hard years, boot-strapped herself to VP of a Bank in Hawaii, where whites were shunted much like blacks and ethnic Ameriicans have been. He was a minority in the Catholic school he attended in Asia. He earned scholarships to demanding schools in Hawaii and NY and worked/borrowed his way through Harvard Law; he has survived and thrived through his own wits and the love and support of family/friends--and the special freedoms and opportunities that represent American pluralism at its best. He gets it. His a a uniquely American story about reaching deep into your inner self and beyond your circumstances to achieve and serve. The main difference, other than his obvious skin color, is that his frame is astonishlingly wide. He has lived the discriminated life of ethnic Americans, but he has done it on a world scale--from Spokane to Singapore, Harrisberg to Honolulu. His greatest challenge is to transcend his skin color and "fancy" education, and connect to more Americans on the basis of shared experiences and enabled dreams. If there were an Everyman American, regrouping­/re-toolin­g/re-inven­ting to meet the challenges of the 21st century, it is Barack Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 04/24/2008
- mjc I'm a Fan of mjc 10 fans permalink

A lot you say, Denny, I believe to be correct, but the part I just don't agree with is his "uniquely American" life. Obama is having problems relating to who the hell he is. And as you have noted, transcending his skin color and "fancy" education, is something he really hasn't done. That is why, at least for me and perhaps others, he rings phony.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 04/24/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

Bill is on TV now saying how poor him and Hillary were when they were in school

But Hillary had a summer cottage with no heat

Funny, because i wouldnt have a summer cottage with heat myself. DUH!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 04/24/2008
- 303 I'm a Fan of 303 5 fans permalink

Why does this bogus Weatherman narrative have more legs than the Clinton FEC/Peter Paul scandals. Hillary and Bill were hardly 8 years old in 2000, and their fingerprints are all over illegal fundraising and other shady, fraudulent political activities. Who is the real traitor to American laws and values--William Ayers or William Clinton?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/24/2008

Thats the reason he won't win in NC,WV,IND. He may cary Gary Ind. but thats it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 04/24/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

I do agree with him not winning WV because they're so racist its sickening

But he will win NORTH CAROLINA no doubt

They said there is also a decline in republican party and a surge in the democratic and we all know he bring the people from the other side, new voters, and independents so this can very well be a swing state in teh fall

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 04/24/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
photo

Because you are racist, you project that on to everyone else. So he'll win Gary because of it's racial makeup.and if he wins anywhere else what will be your justification? Ever heard of logic? Your argument lacks it. Find a caucus/ primary map. Now which states are predominately black?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 04/24/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

Um, Omega Psi Phi?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/24/2008
photo

I'm a huge Barack obama supporter, but a Democrat first and foremost. If you think that Obama is having a rough time because of his race, just wait until a Jew tries to run for president. or an openly-gay man or woman. Or a disabled person. Or, heaven forbid, an atheist. You ain't seen nothin....­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 04/24/2008
- 303 I'm a Fan of 303 5 fans permalink

Actually, Joe Lieberman got off lot easier that Obama. Can you imagine Geraldine Ferraro saying Leiberman only got the Dem VP nomination because he was Jewish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/24/2008
- gjoh I'm a Fan of gjoh 6 fans permalink

"...allowi­ng Sen. Hillary Clinton to define herself as an anti-trade candidate.­"

She is playing the game as it has been played on her. She has no intention on helping these rural voters if she is elected. The same thing happened with Regan in the 80"s. They believed his rhetoric and now their screwed. Looks like they are falling for it again.

The national media is also to blame for allowing HRC to redefine herself as the anti-trade candidate. They have the interview transcripts, and the video footage but they are too lazy are too biased to use it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 04/24/2008
- GravitonX I'm a Fan of GravitonX 55 fans permalink
photo

Among White American Catholics, you will find some Poles and other ethnic groups of Central European descent, and of course, the Irish, all recently been "accepted as white" in the last century. The acceptance for these "non-white" groups in American racial order was necessary to bolster "white" population, with WASPs at the top of that order, though the more English, the better, but it also required some level of enthusiastic participation in perserving the existing racial order. You will find at a deep level that these white Catholics are intent on preserving the requirements of their new status.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 04/24/2008
photo

I grew up in a northeastern city that was heavily Italian-American. The disdain for Blacks among this group was almost visceral. I could never understand it, knowing the discrimination that the Italian immigrants faced when first arrived and for decades afterward. Go figure?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 04/24/2008
- Kirk59 I'm a Fan of Kirk59 10 fans permalink
photo

Theory? NE ethnic Catholics lived off of political patronage jobs for years. When the blacks moved up there post WW2 in large numbers they began encroaching on those jobs. In the midwest and west most of us were farmers or ranchers. Not being dependent on our uncle at City Hall for our livelihood we could afford to be more accepting of these new residents.
I too lived in NYC for a couple years and I have never seen anything like the racial hostility I saw there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 04/24/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

My mother told me the same thing growing up in Queens

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 04/24/2008
- Daly I'm a Fan of Daly 19 fans permalink

Excellent point; Black vets, power of the GI bill meant a lot of displaced "whites" that are actually italian, irish, polish ect. These folks were suddenly having to compete for jobs with black vets causing the divide. Most blacks not being catholic were not challenging these folks at church so whites started using religion as code for you are not like us.
McCain even changed his religion to appeal to crazed Republican.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 04/24/2008
- nerakami I'm a Fan of nerakami 14 fans permalink

Am I the only one sick of all this non-sense ? I for one officially gave upTV news about three weeks ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 PM on 04/24/2008
- AC500 I'm a Fan of AC500 5 fans permalink

Obama will win these voters in the fall because it is these voters and their family members who are in Iraq fighting George Bush's illegal, unwinable war that McCain would like to extend to 100 years. Obama will also get the women's vote because McCain just voted against women's right to equal pay. All in all, Obama's looking great to cinch the Presidency in the fall. He just has to work on older voters now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 04/24/2008

Obama will not get the woman's vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/24/2008

Since when has the women's vote been monolithic? Are you talking about women who identify as Democrats, women who identify as Independents, working-class women, middle class women, soccer moms, low income women, black women, latino women, white women, asian-women? What are you saying? Do you even know?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 04/24/2008
- 303 I'm a Fan of 303 5 fans permalink

Obama consistently wins the vote of younger, better educated women.

Women over 65--Hil's strongest demo--see Hil through a prism of Remarkable Achievement. Women born before WW II, the Harriet Nelson generation, mostly stayed home and "honored and obeyed" their husbands.

In addition to older women, many lower income, less educated women still feel under the thumb of chauvinistic patriarchs--whether at home or in the church.
Is it any wonder that Hil's Fire and Brimstone approach to taking on the Male Establishment rings their chimes and floats their boat? Perhaps, for some women, Hil has become a political slasher in the tradition of Lorena Bobbit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 04/24/2008
- donaldw6 I'm a Fan of donaldw6 358 fans permalink
photo

No, of course not, vote for McCain so he can continue to oppose equal pay for women.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 04/24/2008
- rebeccaj I'm a Fan of rebeccaj 6 fans permalink

@frustratedinohio: I guess your name says it all...

Who died and made you "Queen of Every Woman in the USA?" Don't you dare you claim to speak for anybody but your bitter, intolerant, frustrated, ignorant, war-mongering, Scalia-loving, Cheney-supporting, McCain-enabling, neo-con loving, faux Democratic self!

I am a woman and I support and respect Barack Obama. And I look forward to the next four years when President Obama will work with Majority Leader Clinton (or maybe Supreme Court Justice Hillary Clinton?) and Speaker of the House Pelosi and usher in a new and powerful Democratic era of peace and prosperity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 04/24/2008
- lmrgreen I'm a Fan of lmrgreen 3 fans permalink
photo

Thank you so much for telling me how I, my sister, my daughters, nieces, and friends will be voting. So kind of you to straighten us out and let us know we won't be voting for Obama, because, of course, we can't make that choice ourselves, can we? We need the someone like you to do that for us. Since we are women then OF COURSE we will vote for Hillary!

NOT!

What planet are you living on? When I'm at our local Obama headquarters volunteering the place is PACKED with women of every age group. I'm a card-carrying member of AARP , the daughter of depression era parents who grew up on farms. My father owned a service station, so I guess I'm "working class" even though I do have some college under my (ever increasing!) belt. My daughters are both college educated (one is an attorney, one a nurse practioner), my other female relatives (its a large family!) and female friends run the gamut from "working class" to members of the "elite" and there is one thing I know about ALL of them: Obama is getting our vote. Period. Well, there is one hold-out but she's coming around...

I am really tired of being told Obama can't win the "women's vote" - he's got mine, my family's and my friends. And I know we are not alone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 04/24/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

Got another superdelegate

From Philly since he won that city big time

Super Brady, we thank you

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 04/24/2008

Obama Blows 13 Point Lead in Pennsylvania!

On April 21st., one poll (PPP) reported that Obama has a 3-point lead. If you couple that 3-point lead with his 10-point loss, you get a 13-point deficit.

Ridiculous? Yes. However, no more ridiculous then the repeated headline, and so-called analysis, that insists that the only meaningful metric from Tuesday’s election is that Obama successfully closed Hillary’s 20-point margin. That also is based entirely on manipulating the numbers -- referencing the one and only poll with that obviously preposterous spread.

In fact, the polling was rather consistent early on showing Clinton with a 15-point lead. Obama “succeeded” in closing approximate 1/3 of that Gap, and that with all the time and money in the world.

Respectfully, you – Obama partisans – should be focused on these numbers:

Obama lost 70% of the Catholic vote, 58% of the white Protestant vote, and 62% of gun owners. Clinton won the support of the majority of union members, low and middle-income workers, and people not blessed with a college education.

Please consider the following. Catholics make up approximately 21% of the electorate. White Protestants make up 46% of the electorate. Union member households are 32% of the electorate. College graduates are only 25% of the population.

Recently, every effort on Obama’s part to appeal to the later populations has been unsuccessful.

The larger, and more inclusive the electorate is, the worse Obama does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 04/24/2008
- DocJerome I'm a Fan of DocJerome 22 fans permalink

Actually, polls showed Clinton ahead by as many as 26pts. The only consistency is this, . . . the Clinton brand gives Hillary the advantage in every state; however, once Sen. Obama campaigns in the state, Hillary loses voters with the exception of women who want to see a female president before they die, the grossly ignorant (this includes racists), and folks who feel obligated to the brand out of loyalty. Everything else is spin and BS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 04/24/2008

You make my point. 26-points. That would make Obama's deficit 19-points. Obama devoted 6 weeks, including 2 statewide tours, and he lost big-time. The harsh reality is that the more many segments of the electorate get to know Obama the less likely they are to vote for him. I actually wish he had done better. I would like to think he has the appeal to win the general but again and again he is unable to "close the deal."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 04/24/2008
photo

So now Penn reflects the entire nation? The state that everyone acknowleges is tailot made for Clinton with the second higest number of older citizens after Florida? The bottom line is that if your analysis held true then Clinton would have won the nomination as she expected to do on Super Tuesday. Perhaps now you can apply your math skills to the delegate count and analyse her chances of winning the delegate count based on the actual voters who she said in January were the ones that really mattered.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 04/24/2008

"tailor made for Clinton" What is the excuse for Obama losing California, New York, Massachusetts, Texas, Ohio, and now Pennsylvania. I think all those states do, in fact, reflect the entire nation. Hey, I am trying to help you out here. You need to move past the self-delusions, and excuses. If Obama has any chance to win the general his campaign needs to stop making excuses and begin getting votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 04/24/2008
- U4IA I'm a Fan of U4IA permalink

Early polls showed Clinton up 20%, some a bit more.

PPP was the outlier in the later polling, and they are taking flak for it.

Your spin is miserable; save it for the talking heads. At least they get paid for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 04/24/2008

Okay Anthrob, respectfully, Clinton lost 92% of the black vote.

Obama lost in PA because that state was tailor made for Clinton. Frankly, it's amazing he got to 9pts considering the previous month's new cycle & the demographics.

You can talk all you want to about 60+ white women, or people making less than $50k/year, but, if you do that, you have to acknowledge that Obama has subgroups that are at least as solidly for him (young voters & blacks) that Clinton will have major problems getting in the general.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/24/2008

I agree. Clinton does have "subgroups". My point is that those groups are larger and much more inclusive of the nation as a whole. In addition, these are the very "subgroups" that the Democratic party will contend with McGain. BTW: Clinton won the majority of all male votes. I would acknowledge that Obama is the likely nominee. You should concern yourself with how he will "get" these larger "subgroups­." If is cannot, or does not, he loses -- we lose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 04/24/2008
- brent777 I'm a Fan of brent777 3 fans permalink

Don't forget to factor in that Pennsylvania is only 1 state in 50. Though I'm not from Pennsylvania I do still consider myself an American. He won my state, even the white people in my state voted for him. So what does that mean only the white people in Pennsylvania count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 04/24/2008
- catinca I'm a Fan of catinca 9 fans permalink

Wille Brown the ex SF mayor made an interesting comment. He said the US is more racist then sexist.
Sad but seems to be true. While I'd love to have a woman president HRC is not the right choice.
I'm doing all I can for Obama he inspiries me...a middle aged white woman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 04/24/2008
- rcampbell I'm a Fan of rcampbell 9 fans permalink

Sounds like a pretty sorry argument:

He: The US is more racist.

She: No, the US is more sexist.

He: More racist!

She: No, sexist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 04/24/2008
- granamica I'm a Fan of granamica 5 fans permalink

Why is being educated such a bad trait in this country? This kind of biased is really rooted in ignorance and shame. If you didn't go to college then you dislike someone who did. That is a real set up for failure. Hillary went to Ivy League schools, Bush went to an Ivy League school. I want a president who is not common, I want a person who is far more educated than I am. This person is leading this country and the world. Empathizing with the working class is good, not rising above it is bad for a world leader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 04/24/2008

Yeah, look where electing the "guy we'd most like to have a beer with" got us. I WANT a president that's smart and educated. God, what a breath of fresh air THAT would be!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 04/24/2008

" I WANT a president that's smart and educated"

The neocons fit that definition.

I want to add diplomatic, compassionate, and humanitarian to the list. These three qualities alone in a candidate will eliminate any chance ever being burdened by another administration like this one we have been forced to endure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 04/24/2008

Your question touches a real puzzlement. America has always prized the person who was able to rise above humble beginnings to achieve. Apparently, and this is a generalization, the "down scale" white voters reserve any empathy for Obama regardless of anything he said about bitter, guns, religion, and immigration. There is a huge segment of that demographic which will not vote for any Black, Latino, Asian, or Native candidate for anything. I have worked with and for the down scale White folks, and I tell you as a minority who has had to supervise employees from 7 different nationalities in 6 different countries, White Americans from the rust belt were the most difficult to work with and supervise of all. They had no regard for the fact that I was boss, had more education, talent, skill and had positive personal characteristics, they always found ways to try to make my job difficult and were masters at back stabbing. My personal experience has taught me that this group of people are vicious and conniving. They do not even consider the fact that their interests are the same as other ethnic groups who are trying to hold on in this economic morass and would be better served by bonding with them. The only candidate who has been opposed to the war, which their sons and daughters are giving their lives for, is Senator Obama. Yet they shun him in favor of Hillary Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 04/24/2008

There has been no nuance differentiating the so called "white working class vote": The "Bubba" (mostly protestant) vote isn't the same thing as the "ethnic" (mostly catholic).

Cincinnati isn't the same thing as Cleveland.
Indianapolis isn't the same thing as South Bend, IN
Altlanta isn't the same thing as Chicago.

While "Mudcat" might understand how to go after the "Bubbas", I don't think he has a clue about going after the catholics. Unfortunately, Obama hasn't overtly tried to understand the nuance. Clinton gets the vote not because she is going after it with any sense of understanding. She gets it because she is the "status quo" candidate. This group will stay with the "status quo", until the "reformer" directly, knowingly, and approaches and recognizes them.

You can make a connection with the "Bubba" vote by telling them: "you know my grandmother's a white lady from Kansas whose admitted to being afraid of young black men." (as if there are any in small town Kansas).

But that doesn't work with the Catholic vote, because that just gets translated: "you know, my grandmother's a WASP". So what, most of top management's grandmother's are WASPs, too.

You can't suggest by omission that working class ethnics are basically the same as maybe racist Southern working class Bubbas and expect them to move away from "the status quo".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 04/24/2008
- GravitonX I'm a Fan of GravitonX 55 fans permalink
photo

Dig beneath the "Catholic" label and you will find an extremely large ethnic group that only recently "became" white.

You will find your answer in that analysis..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 04/24/2008

I agree. The salvation of the Roman Catholic church in America is the growing number of Hispanics, and many of them are gravitating toward a different spiritual orientation. On Roman Catholic issues such as abortion and gay rights, there is not a great deal of difference between Hillary and Barack. Even John Kerry didn't knock the socks off trying to get the Roman Catholic vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 04/24/2008

And I'll say it again: Pennsylvania is very, very special place in this regard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 04/24/2008
photo

Two things occurred to me while I watched Gibson and Stephanopoulos assault and batter Obama. 1) Why don't the networks just come out and say it straight up: They don't want a black man in the White House. 2). Obama needs to be better prepared to deflect the stupidity in future debates with McCain. If anything, Obama has erred on the side of hope. He actually thinks he will be asked intelligent questions.
Hope is nice, of course, but a good left jab and a couple of well-aimed rights into the soft white underbelly would work wonders. When Obama stands up and says, "I will not play dumb any longer," he may just prove to be an agent of change. For all of us.
— Alan Bisbort

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 04/24/2008

You're right. Nobody should hope (and never expect) intelligent questions from the mainstream media. How's that for an elitist position?
;-)
ed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 04/24/2008
- mslindab I'm a Fan of mslindab 6 fans permalink

As a convert (lifelong Republican supporting Obama) I must say that I have noticed that Obama has been off his game for a while now. Maybe as far back as Texas. It might be the attacks against his wife which not have been anticipated. It just seems he has lost his focus and his idealism. I can only hope that being on more familiar turf (Indiana) he will regain his strength and lead us to the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 04/24/2008
- tISHA I'm a Fan of tISHA 2 fans permalink

Yes you a right. Obama needs to put his mask back on and try to con more of us white working class country folks. Seems like lately more people have got to know the REAL Obama. And what they saw they did not buy. We might be old but with age comes wisdom. You cant fool us as much as the young inexperienced voters. And as for the rest of you , guess you just live in a different parallel universe. How highly educated people can fall for the empty promises of Obama is beyond me. Or maybe it's because I have heard it before. I voted in our failed 1968 and 1972 left liberal stabs at wining the
White House. I now realise that to govern for all a President has to be in the center. Obama is far from that. Way to far left for me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 04/24/2008

"When Obama stands up and says, "I will not play dumb any longer," he may just prove to be an agent of change. For all of us."

Just like the time he pretended to not understand Hillary's stand on licenses for illegals during one debate and then regurgitate Hillary's answer almost word for word at the very next debate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 04/24/2008

But as ignorant as it sounds to HuffPost bloggers, you have to understand that there are MANY, MANY people who wanted answers to those very questions. They BELIEVE the crap about the flag pin. I got a forwarded email the other day that circulates through my parents's entire peer-group (60-75-year old retirees in rural Texas Bible Belt) saying that Obama [is the devil because he] ... refused to place his hand on the Bible when being sworn into Congress. They believe these things. It NEVER occurs to them to challenge the source of ANYTHING.

Obama has to back up a few inferential steps when trying to explain to these folks why he will treat them better from Pennsylvania Avenue than any of the other candidates.

He needs to understand that it's sort of like the "stunning ignorance" he talked about in his speech. It's not limited to one racial demographic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 04/24/2008
photo

He should simply explain to them that wearing the flag as a decoration or adornment is in fact against the flag's code of etiquette, and a sign of disrespect to the flag.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/24/2008
- Daly I'm a Fan of Daly 19 fans permalink

What is annoying about obama is that I am sure there are photos of him being sworn in; why in gawds name doesn't he provide them. Some things are easy to kill. I support obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 04/24/2008
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next › Last » (6 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect


svn