Michigan Democrats: Split Delegates 69-59

LANSING, Mich. — Michigan Democrats working to get the state's delegates seated at the Democratic National Convention on Tuesday suggested splitting them 69-59 between presidential candidates Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

The Democratic National Committee stripped Michigan of its 128 delegates for holding its presidential primary too early in the year. The state also has 28 superdelegates.

Clinton has argued that she should get 73 delegates based on the results of the Jan. 15 primary, which she won _ 18 more than Obama.

Obama, who removed his name from the ballot, wants the 128 pledged delegates split evenly, 64-64.

The compromise, suggested Tuesday in a letter to Michigan Democratic Chairman Mark Brewer, fell halfway between the two proposals.

Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor said the campaign looked forward to working with national and Michigan Democrats to find a solution.

Clinton spokesman Isaac Baker said "the bottom line is that Michigan's votes must be counted."

The four Michigan Democrats who made the proposal are Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger, Sen. Carl Levin and Democratic National Committee member Debbie Dingell, wife of Rep. John Dingell.

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"While we expect that neither candidate will explicitly embrace this approach, we believe that the DNC should adopt it and both candidates should accept it because it is fair and because it would resolve an impasse that with each passing day hurts our chances of carrying Michigan and winning the presidency," they wrote.

Michigan Democratic Party spokeswoman Liz Kerr said Brewer was reviewing the proposal and had no comment.

The DNC stripped Florida and Michigan of their convention delegates _ 366 in all, including pledged delegates and superdelegates _ for holding their primaries too early in the nominating process, which violated party rules.

Clinton and Obama agreed not to campaign in either state as a result, and Obama joined other candidates in removing their names from Michigan's ballot.

Clinton won both contests. Trailing in delegates, with 2,025 needed to become the party's presidential nominee, Clinton and her campaign have been pressing for those primary results to be recognized. Obama, who wants to preserve his lead, objects.

Both states have abandoned plans to hold do-over contests that would count, but are demanding to be allowed to participate in the voting for the nominee at the party's national convention in Denver in late August.

Last week, the party's Rules and Bylaws committee announced a May 31 meeting to consider a separate plan to give each pledged delegate half a vote at the convention as a way to resolve the dispute over Florida's and Michigan's contests. Superdelegates would keep their full votes under the plan.

Comments

[Tommygun264]

So Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both agreed to have their names removed from the ballot and not to campaign for the Michigan primary, Senator Obama honored his commitment, Senator Clinton honored the part about not campaigning but forgot to get her name removed from the ballots (oops) and then changed her position once the vote turned out in her favor. After all this, we're supposed to believe that the fair thing to do is to split the delegates in a way that gives Hillary more delegates than Barack. What color is the sky in the world where you see this a fair solution Ms. Hoffman? I'd really like to know because I have definitely never been there.

Unless there is a mathematically impossible outcome to the remaining state primaries, after the last primary has ended, Senator Barack Obama will still lead in the popular vote and in the number of pledged delegates. Therefore Senator Hillary Clinton's only chance at winning the Democratic nomination will rely on the so-called "super delegates" deciding to disenfranchise every other member of the Democratic party who isn't a super delegate and appointing Hillary Clinton the nominee. Ms. Hoffamn, can you or any of the other Hillary Clinton supporters out there honestly say that you would support this scheme if the roles were reversed? Without giggling?

[EyeWantOneNation]

Well, Tommy...I was going to post almost the exact same thing; I think you even said it better !!!

Thanx !!!

Either split the delegates even up; 64 - 64, or forget it !! Since when do we reward the likes of Hillary Clinton for NOT honoring her pledge to remove her name from the MI ballot ??? She's on record for stating she would honor the DNC rules; I guess she hadn't counted on being behind. Now she sings a different song !!!

This constant business of she "won" MI and FL is old...REAL old. Split the delegates evenly, so they can be seated, or don't seat them at all !!!

[filo]

If Michigan delegates aren't seated it's a moot point.

[ohmercy]

Abother way to put it:

Could you, if the situation were reversed and Obama won more of the votes think 64-64 is fair and support it?

Just as I thought.

Y'all are so predictable and so silly.

[livesimply]

If your kids were in school and a similar situation came up, would you support the fair solution or the one that advantaged your kid? Rules are rules and fair is fair. You agree to the rules BEFORE you play the game. What about this do some of you NOT understand?

[AC500]

I have no doubt Obama will seat the Michigan delegates once he's sewed up the nomination. They may even get the split they want. However, I personally think Obama should hold out for a 50/50 split since his name was not on the ballot.

[livesimply]

"Everything I needed to know about life I learned in kindergart­en."

[irishgawdess]

FL and MI gave up their opportunity to participate in the nomination process when they voted to move their primaries up to Jan 15, breaking DNC rules. They knew the consequences, i.e. none of their delegates would be seated at the convention. Their citizens were cheated out of their votes, and it's their state government the citizens should hold accountable. If they don't appreciate their representatives’ votes on this issue, they should do something about it at their next state level election.

Prior to Jan. 15, all the candidates agreed the votes wouldn’t count out of respect for NH, IA, NV, and SC, which held primaries on Feb 5. In re MI, Hillary left her name on the ballot after the other candidates pulled their names off. In FL, many Democrats wouldn’t have even gone to the polls except for a property tax measure on the ballot, i.e. many Democrats didn't go to the polls. The results weren’t a true reflection of the Democratic vote for this reason.

MI and FL Democratic results do not count... PERIOD! The DNC needs to stand firm on the original rules agreed to by all states and all candidates, or be prepared for this bullshit to happen again in the next election. This behavior is driven by greed and it needs to be stopped by following through on the consequences previously stated in the rules.

[Mrloserpunk]

I do understand the obama supporters being upset, however this is a bigger problem for the democrats and requires a fair solution. The early primary states have an advantage when they vote early. They set the tone. Other states want that advantage. NO RULE that restricts voters should ever have been considered. SHAME on the whole lot of the rules committee. Dean is a DOFUS! But the votes should count in some form based on the results, a 69-59 delegate split in MI and the actually vote in FL. Seriously why are you defending the DNC to support your GUY? Besides Obama has this wrapped up. Why is he fighting this? Show some respect for democracy and let the votes stand.

[IndependentMeans]

They broke the rules. It has nothing to do with HRC or Obama, in my mind. They BROKE THE RULES, SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. Isn't that what we teach our children, then adults try this type of crap. THEY BROKE THE RULES, how hard is that to understand, let residents of MI and FL deal with their state, don't cry wolf after the fact.

[tess08]

But what Hillary want Hillary get, or she'll cry about it to hubby, then he and his network of sycophants will strong-arm the DNC. We don't know much about the nefarious, hidden power the Clintons wield in politics. I despair that they will steal the nomination with their lies and filthy backstabbing tricks.

[aquarius2001]

Let me ask you a question. If Barack was the only candidate to leave his name on the ballot knowing the rules and that those votes wouldn't be counted, and now the Michigan DNC wants to give a majority of those delegates to him and shortchange HRC, would you be singing the same tune? OR would you be outraged? Somehow, I think you would be outraged. Hillary would be on TV screaming "SHAME ON YOU" to the DNC.

[ohmercy]

ummm,
To be fair... LOL... what a concept!
Hillary was not the only one to leave her name on the ballot, pay attention.
Plus the Obama campaign kept promoting the idea and encouraging his supporters to vote uncommitted and according to exit polls that is exactly what they did.

Now, again, why would Obama not support this. He is going to get the nomination unless something much worse comes out about him which is very unlikely.
He wants to show how big he is,. how above the fray he is then he should prove his largeness of spirit and heart and fair play to the voters and support this. The sooner the delegates from Florida and Michigan get seated the sooner this will be over. Clinton will go to the convention to force their being seated. They should be seated before then so she doesn't have that reason to use.

What are you all so worried and rabid about?
What are 10 delegates going to do?

Aside from that is the Florida issue where Republicans screwed with that. I find it disturbing that Democrats would allow Republicans to screw with election and possibly deny a Democrat the Presidency AGAIN by doing so.
It is very suspicious to me.

[NCMan]

here you all are talking about the rules again without actually ever having read them

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/24/a-talking-points-memo-rules-provide-for-the-florida-and-michigan-delegations-to-be-seated/

[IndependentMeans]

And this link is a HRC supporter and hack. Try disclosing that when you link articles.

[NCMan]

it is still compiled by actually referencing the rules of the DNC. It isn't filled with what people would LIKE the rules to be like these posts by Obama supporters. It's what the rules actually ARE.

[ohmercy]

well that may be so but it doesn't make the information wrong.
This has appeared on many sites.

[FlowerGirl]

New proposal: ALL Michigan and Florida delergates to be given to Peter Paul!
Hillary can never get any off those until she admits to the convention and the country that she is a lying cheating trouble making harpy. Then she can beg for all Peter Paul wants to give her -- after all other delegates have a chance to switch. (Recall she is in favor of switching!) I think that's fair.

[pagopago]

good idea, Peter Paul needs all the delegates he can get, seeing as how the judge is bought and paid for by the Clintons.

[Daisy1111]

About Peter Paul:

In 2001, Paul was indicted on one count of violating SEC Reg. 10(b)5, for manipulating the price of the stock in Stan Lee Media. Paul was arrested in Brazil and jailed ...Paul failed in his efforts to avoid extradition and, in 2003, he was delivered to the Metropolitan Detention Facility in Brooklyn, New York for arraignment and trial.

In 2004, the SEC filed its complaint against Paul for the manipulation of Stan Lee Media's stock in violation of the antifraud provisions.

Paul pled guilty to the securities fraud charge for he had been indicted in 2001. The government characterized his conduct as causing "losses to the investing public and financial institutions of approximately $25 million".

Paul v. Clinton

Paul's claims have not found traction. An audit by the Federal Elections Commission found that neither Senator Clinton nor her Senate campaign had accepted any illegal funds in connection with the Hollywood fundraiser.

Paul's suit against the FEC was thrown out; his attempt to bring ethics charges against Clinton were rejected, and his fraud charges against Senator Clinton were tossed out in April 2006. Paul continued to press civil charges against Senator Clinton and former President Clinton for "looting"his business, but the courts refused to allow him to sue Senator Clinton, with the appellate court specifying that her behavior had been "perfectly legal."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F._Paul

[lvogt]

Clinton signed a document and stated categorically on NPR that the vote didn't count.

It would be dishonest to change one's mind now... wouldn't it? No, really dishonest.

[AjicNYC]

WELL sometimes things call for a change of course, (you know??) no one thought this would go on this long and would think that the this race would be so close and you know what every state played a part in this primary EXCEPT FL and MI and we will feel the repercussions of that in the fall in one way or another so we should rectify this situation in some way shape or form. I personally thought we should of just had a revote and be DONE with it.

[pagopago]

the one positive thing that has come from all of this is that we now know exactly the true identity of Rodham Clinton. That her word means NOTHING. That signing a pledge and agreeing that these two specific states would not be included, and now she would like to change the rules.

The fact that this race has gone past February 5th has allowed the electorate, including many of Rodham Clinton's former supporters to see what David Geffen saw and said about the Clintons, that they lie with an ease that is unsettling. That they cannot be trusted. This coming from a former friend. That Bill Richardson, a long time loyal friend, has come to see them for what they are. For people on Capital Hill who once held them in high regard, now find them to be vacuous and polarizing and dishonest and disloyal to the party.

[lvogt]

MI and FL have decided they will not have a revote and the discussion is not now about a revote. It's about counting votes that don't count.

[FlowerGirl]

Ironically polls showed Obama stronger than Clinton in recent polls in Michigan, but no matter.
Even if she is given these delegates as a reward for being the lying, cheating thing she is, she will come to the convention demanding that we play by GOLF RULES!

As to Florida where she campaigned (three big highly publicized fund raising trips there) she shouldn't get a thing!
Ms Hateful is showing us what she has, and is. I'd like a better human being for president.

[irishgawdess]

No mulligans allowed!

[Grunty1]

There aren't many sports where the low score wins.

[speciallady2003]

This is absurd. Everyone in Michigan did or did not go to the polls knowing their vote was worthless, the time to argue was before the vote, not now. There is no way to seat Michigan and Florida fairly, so they need to stay home and learn to behave. Florida needs go to voting school. Detention will be good for them and show us that someone in politics has backbone.
I live in Florida.

[Sandmann]

Simply put folks, those of you in favor of giving Hillary extra delegates from Michigan will get slapped when she doesn't follow through on her "master plan" ...do you really think she'll not pull this kind of stunt when called upon to back those empty promises on the campaign trail if elected as POTUS?

[kae]

If it was Hillary that was not on the ticket in MI and this was suggested do you really think she'd say yes.

[ohmercy]

If Obama was ahead in Michigan would you really support a 50/50 split?

Please.

[Kache]

I think they should seat the Michigan and Florida delegation. But Hillary cheated in Michigan by leaving her name on the ballot. And Hillary cheated in Florida by campaigning there. So....

Votes for Hillary from those two delegations should not be counted at all, on the first ballot or the 1,000th ballot. She is the one who cheated, she gets no votes.

[rdris1398]

Obama capaigned in FL as well as advertised there...ge­t the facts straight..

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/where-the-dem-rules-really-lea.html

Obama was the only Democrat that advertised in FL and he was on the ballot and he just plain lost. I don't want to hear that people did not vote because their votes would not count - that is bull. People MIGHT buy that argument if voter turnout was low in FL, but it was recordbreaking high.

If Obama was interested in fairness he should have pushed for the revote in MI so there would be nothing for anyone to complain about. Besides he is so righteous and has this thing locked up - why would it matter if she netted 10 more delegates than him...
WRIGHT???
The polish is getting dull...

[karaplanet]

Obama did not campaign in Florida. You are flat wrong on that. The advertising you refer to was national cable ads that could not be pulled for one state. One of the main reasons that turnout was high in FL was due to a homeowners tax issue on the ballot. Their taxes have skyrocketed in recent years, and they fervently went to the polls if it affected them. Those who were renters were not so inclined, as they were told their votes wouldn't count. You play fast and loose with the facts, which points to an agenda.

[IndependentMeans]

Exactly!

[ohmercy]

OMG!
Please actually read the rules before you spout off this divisive garbage.

There is nothing in the rules that said that their names should be taken off the ballot. There were other Democrats who kept their name on the ballot.

Obama's campaign urged his supporters to vote uncommitted which, according to exit polls they did.

[rikkirighteous]

I can't believe two entire states will be disenfranchised because of a party technicality.

No one broke a law. This is a Democratic Party technicality which is keeping millions of votes from being counted.

Has nothing been learned from Florida since 2000?

[AdamX]

No one should be disenfranchised. BUT, the fact is that in Michagan Hillary AGREED to take her name off the ballot, just as the other candidates did. She LIED. Since her name was the only one there, she got more votes. Other got 40%. Now to say that was a fair election, and that Hillary should get those votes - that LIAR who broke her agreement - is absurd.

Also, the fact that these states broke rules should mean something. It is not Hillary or nominee Obama who has disenfranchised anyone - that is a myth. The Michigan election was deemed unconstitutional!

Florida is another matter. But again, there was no campaigning there. Folks went for name recognition.

So, how about a FAIR resolution? Should there votes count? YES! They should count in a FAIR election! Have we learned nothing from Florida since 2000?

Hillary will lie, cheat and steal to win - those are the facts.

[nanotubz]

It's their party and those are the rules, and everyone agreed to them well in advance of the primaries. And in a way those two state parties did brake the contract with the national party. So instead of being sued, those primary votes are nullified.

[kae]

Actually I'd have to say that yes lots has been learned from Flordia 2000 & Ohio 2004. I'd say looking at what the Florida & Michigan counts have become to this election - especially after BOTH states were told they would not be seated if they went early. Especially now that Hillary has flip-flopped on this..YES. This appears to be the latest form of vote manipulation. Laws may not have been broken - in your opinion - but promises were, and I'm sick of presidents that lie.

WARNING!
Here is the propaganda: The voters will be disenfranchised!
These people could care less about the voters, Fla. & Michigan were told this would happen and they did it anyway.

[anastasiabeaverhousen]

I lay this one directly at the feet of Howard Dean. They dared to defy the national party and so the party head decides that their votes don't count?

WHAT THE F&CK DIFFERENCE DID IT MAKE THAT THEIR PRIMARY WAS EARLY?

In my book, that's called a 'stupid law'. You know, like when there's no right turn on red at an intersection where visibility is clear for hundreds of yards and no opposing traffic can make a Uturn in front of you......s­tupid law.

Instead, Dean gets his knickers in a twist and decides that they defied his "edict". Putz.

[karaplanet]

If there are no rules, states would hopscotch over each other until we had primaries over Thanksgiving. Rules are there for a reason, and repercussions are there to dissuade rule breakers from making foolish and costly mistakes.

[lvogt]

First, it's not a law. It's a rule. It's a party election so the party sets the rules. Dean does not make this stuff up. The Democratic National Committee makes the rules. The candidates agreed and one party is trying to pretend she won a primary that never happened and everyone knew it at the time. She's behind a grasping at straws.

[AjicNYC]

Thats right , THIS IS THE OLD STYLE POLITICS , someone decides something and was backed and supported so it must be followed at all cost. how does the comment "RULES ARE RULES" equate HOPE and CHANGE ?????

[letsplaynice]

It makes a big difference. If states were allowed to keep jockeying for earlier, more "relevant", positions, the presidential primaries for 2012 would start in 2011, campaigning would start basically right after, or before, the mid-term elections. Rules have to count, otherwise, they mean nothing and set a bad precedent.

[lvogt]

She signed an agreement and made a public statement and now she is reneging.
This is dishonorable.

[lotuslike]

And Clinton should get more delegates because she broke the rules...CH­EATED??? Fair, if the delegates are to be seated, is a 50%- 50% split. Clinton and any of her supporters are as crooked as Bill's wagging finger to suggest otherwise.

[Laprawler501]

Obama should get 0 delegates because he got 0 votes

[Apple8]

Are you being sarcastic because that is efing stupid!!!
I can barely keep from having a stroke hearing and reading the news lately from the outright idiocy that is the Clinton campaign and her supporters! HE WAS NOT ON THE BALOT DUE TO COMPLYING WITH THE RULES THAT WERE GIVEN!!!! Geesh...ho­w simple can that get? How then could he have gotten any votes if she was the only MF on the ballot! It is like rationalizing with a billy goat...I love billy goats, they are cute and awesome, but if I were to rationalize with one on whether or not he should eat my shoe becuase it is not ok to eat them, that billy goat would give a F***!
I think I am officially going to have a stroke!

[Kingbreaker]

Ahahahaha!!!

This is the siliest comment EVAR.

Hillary should get 0 delegates BECAUSE SHE VIOLATED HER OWN PLEDGE.

[aliceblue]

THIS STINKS.

Clinton breaks the rules and is rewarded with as
many delegates as she won in Pennsylvania?

Obama abides by the rules and loses ten delegates
to the one who VIOLATES the rules?

This needs to be APPEALED asap, not necessarily
by Obama's committee, but by some Democratic
group with a lawyer. Maybe Kos et al will do it.