Clinton seeks gas tax vote, Obama calls it 'shell' game

MUNSTER, Ind. — Hillary Rodham Clinton called for a vote Friday in the Democratic-controlled Congress on a summertime suspension of the federal gasoline tax, a plan that Barack Obama dismissed as a political stunt that would cost thousands of construction jobs.

"It's a Shell game. Literally," Obama said to laughter from his campaign audience, adding it would mean little for hard-pressed consumers.

The Democratic presidential rivals highlighted their differences in ads and speeches across North Carolina and Indiana, two states with primaries Tuesday.

Polls point toward a particularly close finish in Indiana, which is next door to Obama's home state of Illinois.

Surveys show him with a dwindling advantage in North Carolina, and Clinton decided to spend all of Friday and Saturday in the state before returning to Indiana for a final push. Both candidates addressed the North Carolina Democratic Party's Jefferson-Jackson dinner Friday night.

"North Carolina is going to help elect the next president," Clinton called out to a raucous crowd. About an hour later, Obama told the thousands in attendance, "It starts right here, on Tuesday, right here in North Carolina!"

The two primaries have 187 national convention delegates at stake.

Obama, the front-runner, leads in the overall delegate competition, 1,736.05-1605.5. Clinton won a decisive victory last week in Pennsylvania and is counting on a strong run through the late primaries to persuade convention superdelegates to help her overtake her rival. She picked up the support Friday of Democratic National Committee member Jaime A. Gonzalez Jr., a Texas superdelegate, and two pledged delegates from final results from last week's Pennsylvania primary.

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Jolted by Thursday's defection of Joe Andrew, a former national party chairman, Clinton responded with a letter from seven other former party heads and the family of an eighth.

"Her base of support includes women, Hispanics, seniors, Catholics, middle and low-income Americans, and rural, suburban and urban voters. That's a formidable coalition tailor-made for victory in a November general election," they wrote.

They added that if the election were held today, Clinton would defeat Republican Sen. John McCain and win the White House. "Obama would lose to the presumptive GOP nominee," they wrote.

Polls are equivocal on that point. Moreover, they have been particularly volatile in recent weeks as campaign criticism takes its toll on the two Democrats and Obama grapples with controversy stemming from the rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Despite a fierce, occasionally personal campaign, to a surprising degree the former first lady and Obama have generally agreed on most policy issues.

That made the proposed suspension in the gasoline tax an exception.

And while there is little support among the Democratic congressional leadership for the plan, it was a disagreement that both presidential contenders appeared content to perpetuate.

"All I hear about is gas prices. Gas and diesel, everywhere," Clinton said in Kinston, N.C. "Some people say we don't need to get a gas tax holiday at all, it's a gimmick ... I want the Congress to stand up and vote. Are they for the oil companies, or are they for you?"

Later, in Hendersonville, she added, "I know where I stand and I know where my opponents stand. ... Senator Obama doesn't want us to take down the gas tax this summer and Senator McCain wants us to, but he doesn't want to pay for it."

Clinton has proposed making up the lost revenue by imposing a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

Obama's rhetoric grew sharper, as well.

"She even borrowed one of Bush's favorite phrases," he said dismissively of the New York senator. "She said every member of Congress should have to tell us whether they are with us or against us."

He said the average consumer would save a "quarter and a nickel" a day, and only $28 in three months.

McCain also favors the gasoline tax holiday, and Obama said sarcastically that showed Clinton "has his vote," and that the two are reading from the same political playbook.

McCain told a town-hall audience in Denver: "I want to give the American consumer a little bit of relief just for the summer. Maybe they'll be able to buy an additional textbook for their children when they go back to school this fall."

Clinton launched a television ad several days ago critical of Obama on the issue.

"The economy's in trouble. When the housing crisis broke, Hillary Clinton called for action: a freeze on foreclosures. Barack Obama said, no. Now, gas prices are skyrocketing, and she's ready to act again. ... Barack Obama says no, again."

A new Obama response ad airing in Indiana in the campaign's final days calls Clinton's gas tax holiday proposal "an election year-gimmick, saving Hoosiers just pennies a day."

Within the congressional leadership, Clinton's position has found relatively little support, and no votes are currently anticipated in either the House or Senate.

"First of all, there is no reason to believe that any moratorium on the gas tax will be passed on to the consumer," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told reporters on Thursday.

"... This has not been the history of a lower gas tax being passed on to the consumer. Second of all, it would defeat everything that we have been trying to do to lower the cost of oil."

In the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said recently that rank-and-file Democrats are divided on the issue. A spokesman said during the day there will be no gasoline tax holiday in legislation Democrats intend to unveil next week.

The dispute centered on a pair of taxes, 18.4 cents per gallon of gasoline and 24.4 cents on a gallon of diesel. The money raised goes into a fund that pays for construction of highways and bridges.

In Indiana, Obama said a summertime gasoline tax holiday would cost 6,000 construction jobs. The campaign circulated material showing the estimate came from the American Road and Transportation Builders Association, a trade group. The group said the impact on North Carolina would be 7,000 jobs lost.

___

Associated Press Writer Beth Fouhy in North Carolina contributed to this report.

Comments

[GBecker]

Aside from the fact that the gas tax holiday is not a good idea on its face, there's another issue voters need to think about.

Let's say the gas tax is put into place and as a result of how good drivers are feeling they go out and drive even more than they have been. Seems like that would lead to increased gas consumption (putting more $ in oil cos. pockets) and increased carbon emissions - for starters. Then a week or two into this "relief," none of us sees any reduction in the pump prices, so we keep driving 'cuz we're saving money! Then we tell ourselves adjusting pump prices downward just takes time (even though adjusting them upward only takes seconds) so we keep driving and saving even more money until - OMG - we realize we were duped AGAIN! By then, it's too late!

The gas tax holiday is a bad idea, people.

[Manx]

So Clinton and McCain want to suspend the gas tax for the summer. It's a case of Dumb and Dumber. We need a president who will do something about our decaying infrastructure, not ignore it. I'm voting for Obama.

[ElliotNC]

As tragic as the Minnesota bridge collapse was, the investigation points to the probable cause occurring in the original design.

"On January 15, 2008 the National Transportation Safety Board announced they had determined that the bridge had a design error. The NTSB reported that the designers had specified steel gusset plates connecting several girders which were undersized and inadequate to support the intended load of the bridge. This assertion was made based on an interim report which calculated the Demand to Capacity ratio for the gusset plates"

(See study at this site) http://ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2008/H08_1_Design_Adequacy_Report.pdf

Additionally, the proposal does not call for eliminating the funds, but replacing their source - with relief for the taxpayer and expense for the oil companies.

Arguing whether or not the proposal is a pander is one thing. Misrepresenting it for the purpose of arguing against it is both disingenuous and weak. But why am I not surprised?

[Kman2]

For the record, I did say "poor design" The NTSB was careful to point out that they did not blame the design error as the collapse cause (at least not yet). If it was the design error that caused the collapse, wouldn't more bridge inspections have caught it sooner? Or is that too simplistic on my part?
The hwy 23 bridge has the same design and is about the same age as 35W. They closed it due to bending they found with those same gussetts (properly sized in this case but still bending). Would that inspection have happened if it weren't for 35W's collapse? 23 might have been another disaster waiting to happen.

At the expense of Oil companies? How is anybody going to get them to pay without sounding like a socialist? Not that I defend oil companies all that much, but these guys are making money off commodities. They don't set the price. The market does. SUV drivers are the market. Chinese drivers are the market. A major war in the middle east effects the future of supply. It's called supply and demand. This is high school level economics at work here.

[CrazyDemocrat]

Hillary's entire candidacy has been a complete "shell game "..Vote for me and pick a shell and I'll give you whatever is under it !!

[Kman2]

As I watch the new 35W bridge going up here in MN I wonder if politicians really think we are that stupid to think that temporarily decreasing funding from gas that goes to building and maintaining roads and bridges will get them votes? We have three major bridges across the mississippi that are now closed due to poor maintenance/poor design/age (state hwy 23, 35W and the Lowry Ave bridge in Mpls).
But then again, that kind of pandering will work on some people, like the proverbial gas hog SUV driver being interviewed by the local TV news and is complaining about the price of gas.

[ElliotNC]

Talk about pandering on a truly GRAND scale. Last night at the North Carolina Democratic fundraising dinner, Obama said, ""If we can spend $10 billion a month in Iraq, then we can spend $10 billion per month in North Carolina creating jobs."

At least Clinton suggests taxing windfall profits to make up for the $9 billion shortfall caused by the Gas Tax Holiday. Obama's ridiculous and irresponsible pander is based on increasing debt.

I know, it's just campaign bluster, but why make such a big deal out of the same type of proposal he has supported in the past. He's just trying to create a distraction to his own shortcomings.

He certainly wins the award for "Panderer in Chief" for his 10 bil a month pledge to NC.

[BillyT]

ElliotNC:

you are either not very bright, or you are pretending to be not very bright.

Answer me this:

SINCE we cannot control Big Oil on how much they charge....

What do you think will happen when we get rid of the tax?

What do you think will happen if we charge them a windfall tax?

They will of course RAISE GAS PRICES TO WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR, which will wipe out any phony savings.

They will also RAISE GAS PRICES TO PAY FOR THE WINDFALL TAX.

Where do you think that "windfall" is really coming from, now?? Do you have 9 Billion dollars in your pocket ready to pay Big Oil this summer? I don't.

Think, don't just react to the "18.4 cents off" sales tag.

[xmw]

VERY WELL PUT BILLYT. CLINTON KNOWS THIS WON'T GET PASSED. BUT IF PUTTING THIS "EFFORT" OUT THERE HELPS HER GET NC AND IN VOTES THEN MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE COULD BE THIS SHORT SIGHTED. MCCAIN ALREADY HAS THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION. HE AND CLINTON JUST WANT IT TO APPEAR THEY ARE THE EXPERIENCED ONES AND ONCE AGAIN OBAMA DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE.

[PAposter]

Hillary Clinton preys on the ignorance of our nation. This in no way suggests these people are not generally smart with other aspects of their lives, but politics are just not their thing. So, they trust that the ideas and solutions being offered are true and accurate, and they vote accordingly. Unfortunately, this not only affects the these voters, it affects all of us who are trying our hardest to help out everyone. People must be more proactive in clarifying issues that will have long-term ramifications. Stop blaming the government for your choices, and be accountable to your neighbor for your uninformed decisions.

[BillyT]

ElliotNC:

you are operating in a reverse universe.

Your candidate Hillary McCain (one person, really) is the one PANDERING, to show the "18.4 cents off" sales tag but doesn't care when Big Oil charges us right back to the tune of 9 billion bucks.

She also doesn't seem to care that any so-called WINDFALL TAXES will be offset by PRICE INCREASES, therefore passing the cost of the tax right back at you and me.

She's an experienced insider, but she's no Nobel Laureate in Economics.

Don't you think you and I and Hillary ought to listen to 150 prominent economists rather than "Iraq for Oil" Hillary McCain on this topic? http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43_080502_list_gastax.html

[ElliotNC]

You guys only respond with the "Talking Points" with which you've been programmed.

The point of my post (which is why I made it first) was this:

"Talk about pandering on a truly GRAND scale. Last night at the North Carolina Democratic fundraising dinner, Obama said, ""If we can spend $10 billion a month in Iraq, then we can spend $10 billion per month in North Carolina creating jobs."

This is why Obama can't debate. He and his followers can only give auto-responses. Which is a bigger pander, $9 billion for the entire nation, or $10 billion PER MONTH for the residents of North Carolina?

My point was to put the issue that has you so worked up, into a larger perspective, but you are too frothing to attack the little pander, that you ignore the ENORMOUS one.

[txbyrd]

To the other conerns, I would add this question:

Exactly how are McCain and Clinton going to give you a tax-break this summer? Last I looked, the election is in, ummmm, November. And last I heard, this is not something that can be done by the President with some kind of royal decree.

If this works, voters are dumb. Punto.

I just saw a speech where he proclaimed that this pitch underestimates the intelligence of the voter. I hope he is right.

[BillyT]

She is hoping that the typical Hillary (less educated) and she elitely assumes ignorant voters will see the "18 cents off!!" price tag and jump to conclusion.

Does she care whether she can get anything accomplished? You THINK??

House and Senate Democratic heads have already told her off. There is no plan to vote on this, this Friday, or ever.

She's just hoping to trick some voters until Tuesday.

[AllenD]

Seeing that these same voted voted Bush twice into the White House, it might work.

[ThirdSection]

"Some people say we don't need to get a gas tax holiday at all, it's a gimmick ... I want the Congress to stand up and vote. Are they for the oil companies, or are they for you?"

This little blurb alone shows that either Hillary is completely off her rocker, or she thinks we're all idiots. How, exactly, do oil companies benefit from keeping the gas tax? If anything, the companies would benefit most from the moratorium, especially if gas prices don't go down, and there's no guarantee that they won't.

[ldjnews]

Here's a dream I had last night to roll back gas prices at the pump--- to the cost of gas in 2004 or was it 2003?

Those with sick leave at a large place of employment, where a lot of people commute, called in sick for an entire week because of stress over the high cost at the pump. The next week students at one large institution stopped going to classes for one week to alleviate stress over the high cost at the pump. The third week a union of truckers called in sick to diminish stress and prevent accidents from trucker stress over the high cost at the pump. Everyone with headaches over the high cost of gasoline checked into urgent care centers. This dream kept going all night. A lot of small groups on aspirin were picketing gas stations. Disabled people in vans driving by were honking horns. More and more people had to call in sick. A parade of bicycles and walkers in support of healthy communities never stopped flowing. By morning I was exhausted.

Oil companies were asked to show their patriotism by rolling back their profits to diminish stress. Instead, they invested in aspirin, stress relievers and urgent care centers. After that, Congress was asked to put in an emergency health measure to force oil companies to roll back the cost at the pump to prices to 2003 or at least 2004.

After that it was pretty amazing how fast alternative energy sources started surfacing

[OrionGal]

I located an article on how Highway Speed Limits can either increase or reduce oil consumption and it states:

"The Department of Energy estimates that every five miles per hour a person drives above 60 mph costs an extra 20 cents a gallon, for a fuel-efficiency loss of 7% to 23%, depending on the type of car and gas. That's because higher speeds increase aerodynamic drag on a car, requiring more horsepower. Over a year, it costs roughly an additional $180 in gas to drive 75 mph instead of 60 mph, according to the Environmental and Energy Study Institute, which promotes energy efficiency and renewable energy."

Here is a link to the article:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115335921573111946-ONkgQkrsApJNYpIjqixoIrcFo2Q_20060818.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top


A proposal to limit Highway Speed to 55 mph:
http://www.oilempire.us/55mph.html

[cinnysmom]

I think this gas tax holiday is the stupidest thing ever. It will not solve the long term problems. It will make things worse. If we are truly worried about saving money at the pump, we need to have a long term solution. Carpooling, driving slower, taking the bus, walking, riding your bike, I know some of these examples are not feasible for some people, but we need to do our part also. Here in Wisconsin we are paying 3.61 a gallon.
Would this so called holiday even pass? That's another thing we need to take a look at before we go out and cast our vote for Hillary or John M. just because we might save 30 bucks for the entire summer.

[billrott]

For the past month, I have heard Hillary say that she is the candidate of solutions. Then she puts out this gas tax holiday. The basic outline of this proposal is to remove the tax that funds the national highway fund used for maintaining our national infrastructure. The savings of at most $30 per driver would have little impact on our bottom line as consumers. As for the root cause of the price of gas going through the roof, the solution does nothing there either. No review of oil companies for price fixing and collusion are within the proposal. No push to get us on alternative energy sources or get us to use more efficient cars.

Yeah, great solution..­..not.

[08timefortruth]

She offers solutions that will never happen to get votes but anyone that pays attention will see she does not know what she is talking about. According to First Read she "misspoke once again both on the Bill O show and in speechs she has been giving.

"Clinton pledged to use the WTO as a way to pressure OPEC nations on the price of oil. But the WTO explicitly exempts energy and there are some who argue that if WTO did get involved in energy, it would only benefit the major oil companies. Bottom line, it's not clear Clinton is dealing in reality on this issue since there really isn't a legal process to use the WTO to attack OPEC"

[BillyT]

agree. That $30 dollars is BEST CASE SCENARIO.

If Big Oil raises prices to whatever the market will bear and then some, and we cannot stop them from doing that, the $30 "savings" will soon turn into

"What the heck happened this summer -- my gasoline bill went up $30!!"

But by then the idiotic voters who actually fall for this would have cast their votes already. Hillary skips town and state, carrying their bamboozled votes.

[flyguy14222]

Wrongo Billo. Do you ever check facts? Hillary's plan is funded through a windfall profits tax on Oil Companies. Ironically your misinformed "outline" is from the plan in 2000, which Obama voted for 3 times!

[researcher]

If obama supported anything that Cheney wanted he should have to account for it. I want to hear more about it from obama.

Dick Cheney is a true capitalist and Americans worship at the altar of capitalism. When it does what it does like create a society of have nots and have mores Americans yell foul and continue to look for that socialist under their beds each night like their parents looked for a commie.

Keep a nation in fear and you can control them and even made them believe that capitalism is designed to help them.

47 million without health care in America and the bail out of bear sterns with taxpayer money says it all about capitalism.

[abigail1]

how does Hillary Clinton think saying to Democrats in Congress, "you are either with us or against us" is going to help her with super delegates? I am baffled by this. She might pick up a few votes in Indiana, although I certainly hope people there see how dumb and counterproductive this whole thing is, but winning Indiana can't get her the nomination!
What is the up side to annoying the crap out the undecided senators and congressmen?

[YRM]

Strange to watch people who call themselves progressive arguing that this is a bad idea. Look, it's not the 18 to 29 cent a gallon savings that the Obama campaign and corporate economists object to here, it's Clinton's call for a windfall tax on oil profits to pay for it. Boy, what a terrible idea... The arguments against the proposal are bizarre in that they each seem diametrically opposed to the other. No real savings, more gas consumption because price is lowered, and now he says the price will acttually go up and we'll see "sticker shock". Have we all hurled ourselves through Alice's looking glass? It makes no sense. Obama still claims that he doesn't take money from oil companies and other corp. interests, which has been widely debunked. (See factcheck.org and opensecrets.org for the details.) He also supported the Cheney energy bill in 2005, which was larded with subsidies for the oil companies. (Clinton opposed the bill.) Anyone who seriously researches this candidate will find that it's not the little people, by and large, who are behind his candidacy. And his record-breaking quarter billion dollars in contributions is not the result of "new politics", but rather the same old corrupt establishment using him as its pretty face. For more on how the election is being manipulated behind the scenes, see the article published at thecityedition.com. Here's a direct. http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html

[billrott]

YRM, your analysis is off base. First, Obama supports the windfall profit tax. He wants the money from the tax to be used for developing alternative energy sources, not giving $30 for three months to motorists. Second, please review the energy bill you trash. The bill was a crucial piece of legislation in getting funding for alternative energy development and funding.

The simple fact is Hillary is pandering with a very stupid and reckless game. The windfall profit tax, which both she and Obama support, can not pass due to GW Bush. The gas holiday proposal will surely hurt any credible and sensible Democrat in congress that votes against it. In a period when we have bridges falling down and our infrastructure falling apart, the last thing we need is to take the funds necessary for the infrastructure upkeep away.

[YRM]

So Cheney's bill is "a crucial piece of legislation in getting funding for alternative energy development and funding." If you really believe that, then I've got a bridge to nowhere I'd like to sell you. I agree there's pandering going on here. It's just not coming from Clinton.

[Binx101]

But it so easy to completely arrive at a different perspective using the exact same tools you just did in writing this reply. The same type of evidence can be used to arrive at any point on the political horizon from any politician's perspective, not unlike the six degrees of Kevin Bacon - yes I know separation - trying to keep it light.

Everything that Hillary and John McCain have proposed alleviates a symptom. Its like giving someone relief from migraines by knocking them out with a '2 by 4' There are consequences to suggesting we'll pay for it with a measure that has repeatedly failed enactment. So by merely stating that we'll pay for it by a tax on windfall profits doesn't change in the least, the high unlikelihood for that to be true.

To wit:
The Iraq War will be over in days, weeks, months - Rumsfeld
The Iraq War will pay for itself - Douglas Feith.

This gas tax roll back is harmful to the process of stabilizing our economic free-fall. . It's theater, make believe fixes from a fairy princess and crazy old man (who coincidentally -has never worked in the private sector in his life.)

This has nothing to do with fuel and everything to do with trying to neutralize nullify the electorate in the next two primaries by associating with a McCain tenet. Talk about manipulation .

Respectfully -
Binx101
The Almost Daily Binx
http://binx101.wordpress.com

[Binx101]

Furthermore it's the typical fix that Washington has pitched Americans.

Do you realize what would happen to gas prices if t US citizens would stop being pigs and cut their fuel consumption by 1/3. Forget about the Green aspect - the result would be oil prices dropping like a rock. Everything becomes a nightmare, logistics, storage, processing - financial ruin if not dealt with immediately.

Do you know how easy that is to accomplish. Simple. We did. We increased gas mileage by doing certain maintenance, trading in a awful gas hog and by changing how and when we drive. No wasted trips. NONE. Our family gasoline consumption is down 60 percent.

We have always had the power - but as the most selfish, self-centered feel-good population on Earth, we're shackled by our own unwillingness. And that's it. Unwillingness. I repeat - we've always had the power to force oil prices down. We viciimze ourselves because we apparently hate each other more than we hate tyranny.

Binx101
The Almost Daily Binx
http://binx101.wordpress.com

[Grunty1]

This is exactly the reason that the line-item veto, and Bush's version the Signing (Slurring) Statement, are terrible ideas.

Even if the bill passes with both the tax roll back (terrible idea) and the Windfall penalty, guess which one will not be making passed the President's desk?