Clinton Camp Tries To Redefine Delegate Math

The Washington Times noticed that Sen. Clinton's website has changed the 'magic number' of delegates -- the number needed to secure the nomination.

Top Clinton aides said the nominee must win based on a tally that includes delegates from Florida and Michigan, which held January primaries that were disqualified by party rules. The campaign's "Delegate Hub" Web site identifies 2,208 as the total delegates needed to be nominated, or 183 more than the threshold of 2,025 set by the Democratic National Committee's rules.

Later today, the candidate herself clarified the new math:

Asked at the Indianapolis Speedway this morning, Hillary confirms that she views the threshold for delegate victory as the count that includes Michigan and Florida.

"I think it's 2,209," she said.

Comments

[clpasm55]

Fret not--if she steals, lies & panders her way to the nomination--Obama can still prevail via write in ballots. She will never get my vote.

[eurydice]

Nor mine.

[donttasemebro]

Nobody can prevail with write-in ballots. That would just split the democratic vote in half, ensuring that McCain becomes president by getting the remaining 40% of the vote.

[clpasm55]

Only time will tell. The conventional wisdom 16 months ago was that Obama had no chance--he was an upstart, unknown Illinois senator. He has certainly proved those critics and non-believers wrong. Don't discount a write in initiative just yet.

[clpasm55]

Don't discount the write in initiative just yet. Keep in mind, 16 months ago, the conventional wisdom was the Obama was an unknown Illinois senator that had zero chance in the field of candidates and even less of a chance (if possible) against the Clinton machine. Look at where we are today. Hence, don't discount the write in option.

[notthistime]

or mine

[cubs325]

worry attitude - she would get my vote but not my support - McCain is infinitiely worse than Clinton

[CocteausTwin]

There will be no need for a write in for Obama. these super delegates do not have the "cajones" to go against the electorate. There will indeed be a super melt down of this country. There was only so much pressure that was accepted/endured before the signing of the Declaration of Independence. There exist people who have had their fill, and will take back the standards by which this country was nobly(for the most part) created.

[TIMLHOWE]

? Were the candidates supposed to remove their names from the Florida and Michigan ballots?

No. No candidate was required or encouraged to remove their name from the ballot. In fact, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama remained on the Florida ballot.

[meltingpot101]

You are seriously reaching dude.....This whole argument corilates with Hillary and the gas tax.

EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG EXCEPT HILLARY

Come on, wake up already

[WMichaelTenery]

Actually as reported at the time Barack looked into removing his name from the Florida ballot. they would not. Michigan would and did. He honored the agreement made, She did not. Hillary tried to have it both ways. First she pandered to Iowa and New Hampshire and said she supported the decision because of Iowa and New Hampshire's historic role in being first caucus and primary in the nation. She only changed her tune after losing Iowa and South Carolina badly.

[cubs325]

she planned to have it both ways if nothing else she is a master old school politician - too bad she is not a team player

[Myshkin57]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure his name was still on the ballot because of the cost to reprint them.

[Myshkin57]

But everyone, including Hillary, agreed they wouldn't count. End of story.

[evekendall]

They pledged "NOT TO PARTICIPATE."

[CocteausTwin]

I guess you are what $30 can buy someone.

[abigail1]

she is just like a 4 year old, constantly trying to change the rules of the game she is losing! I wish she'd take her ball and her bat and go home instead.

[chiboy]

The democratic race has become a rousing round of Calvinball.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinball#Calvinball

[Jez]

Ha! Calvinball! Clever analogy

[jellygraph]

And now Hillary Clinton thinks she runs the democratic party. Talk about being elitist

[ObserverinVancouver]

I posted my comment below by mistake. I intended to erase it. However, if anyone knows if this info has been summarized somewhere, a link would be appreciated. Thanks

[Sixtwo]

Desperate folks do desperate things!!! The HRC camp is desperate! If one strategy designed to steal the nomination doesn't work just try another one. After NC and Indiana results are in tonight, there will be yet another one. Thank God there seems to be more smart voters (those who are informed) than others!!!!

[SharonB]

Why is she even running as a Democrat??????

She has talked more and more like a Republican every day.
She want's to count delegates in two states that did not abide by Democratic Party rules.
The Democratic party says the number of delegates to win is 2025. She wants to change that.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How much more can her supporters swallow and still call themselves Democrats?????

Her supporters have absolutely no reason to ever call Bush a cheat or a liar.

[TIMLHOWE]

Question. Is the exclusion of Florida and Michigan mandatory?

No. The decision to count or suppress these votes is as optional and discretionary as the decision to fully seat the delegations from the three other offending primaries in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. The initial power-play ruling that, in effect, temporarily suspended certification for Michigan & Florida is subject to, at minimum, three more revisits. The first will be the states' appeal to the Rules & Bylaws Committee (RBC) at the end of May. The second will be handled by the Credentials Committee in the summer. And if those Committees still intend to omit the 2.5 million voters in those states, there will be a vote at the Convention in August.

Note that the RBC ruling, if favorable to Hillary, may still be challenged by Obama subsequently. But consider the change in dynamic. Instead of Hillary privately advocating for two states' inclusion, we would have Barack Obama publicly calling for their exclusion, an embarrassing position for any "uniter" in a democracy. Can anyone really imagine Obama after having his lawyer Bob Bauer stop the MI revote, looking the camera in the eye and saying "I want to exclude the votes of 2.5 million Americans because of a rules technicality"?

[AdamX]

Clinton agreed. Clinton lied:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8wX99qUo3Ow

[Arbos]

Obama would have about 15 Million Democrats standing behind him if it ever came down to that moment....and yes he can comfortably say that they SHOULD NOT be included because for 1) he wasn't on the Michigan ballot and 2) he did not campaign in Florida. Clinton's massive leads usually disappear within a couple of weeks of Obama campaigning in a state.

And how about the estimated 2 million Democrats that didn't show up to vote in Florida because they though (as everyone else, Clinton included) that it wouldn't count. Or how about the 40% of people in Michigan that voted no to Clinton...shouldn't they have had a chance to properly choose the candidate they wanted?

Lastly....the FACT remains. Michigan and Floria only mattered to Hillary Clinton when she saw that there was no other path to victory.

[abigail1]

Obama didn't stop the revote. The party couldn't agree on the rules and the Republican controled state senate said it wouldn't vote on it.
He doesn't want to exclude anyone. He has 4 events here in MI to start his vote registration drive this very weekend. But those were the rules that everyone agreed on and based their strategy on. If Michigan and Florida were going to count don't you think both campaigns would have run things differently? The votes will count, and the delegates seated, but a fair way to do it must and will be found.

[WMichaelTenery]

If you're so hell bent on looking for someone to blame, then blame the democratic leaders in both states. Carl Levin in Michigan and this guy in Florida. Here watch him openly mock the democratic process.

The Democratic leaders there openly defied the DNC and laughed while they were doing it.

Senate Democrat Leader (Florida) Laughs in the DNC's Face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHuQi17EaE

[WMichaelTenery]

New Link. Watch the part after the morning Joe segment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-SAYaJKN4

[meltingpot101]

LONNIE DAVIS Is That You???


Do you realize Hillary is unelectable now and in 2012

[ObserverinVancouver]

I haven't seen anything setting out explicitly the differences in the Clinton/Obama conditions for which voters would be eligible to vote in the re-vote. I think the Obama camp wants to let as many voters as possible vote (including those who voted in the Republican party primary because they couldn't see any point in voting in the Democratic party) while Clinton wants to restrict the number of people eligible to as few as possible while keeping credit for the votes she's aleady received.

[huffanatic]

Clinton is a looser.
huffanatic breaking news!

[gomonkeygo]

I've decided that one needn't even announce one's campaign or actually do any of the silly work these guys have been doing. All you need is to declare yourself the winner.

Therefore, I proudly and humbly and gratefully and tearfully and nakedly accept the Democratic nomination for the Presidency of the United States of America.

And I'm setting the election for two seconds from now...polls opening...polls closing...It's a landslide! I win! Take that crazy old man, scary oldish woman, secret Muslim guy! Ha!

See you all at the Inaugural Ball! Devo's playing, so dress retro!

[CatLadyforObama]

Whip it good! LOVE Devo!

[meltingpot101]

Yeah, that democracy shit is for other countries

[BetterDeadthanRedState]

Let's see the DNC says 2,025. HRC says 2,208. Let me just run the numbers here. minus five, carry the two. . .

Yep that makes it 2,025!

[CatLadyforObama]

Apparently people who understand math are elitists, just like economists. Oh yeah, and anyone with an education--something I thought Hillary supported once upon a time ago....

[tel8034]

IF (AND THAT'S A BIG "IF") Hillary wins the nomination and then go on to win the big prize, is this what we will have to expect from her?

Unashamed LIES, not wanting to consult with experts, not following the rules or changing the rules to fit her LIES, always being sleep deprived, eager to push the nuclear button, a reemergance of the many 90's-like scandals, political pandering instead of substantive solutions........If that is the case we might as well let Bush stay in place because it will be MORE OF THE SAME.

[notthistime]

you know what. That is the scary part tel8034. The fact that she is a blatant liar and she knows you know she is telling lies and it doesn't change anything. What is even more scary is that after she repeats it multiple times, the media, the people and even the polls start to repeat the same things. At least Bush can honestly say he is an not the smartest apple on the tree and his statements are made because he doesn't know any better. However, Hillary is extremely intelligent but has a strong penchant for telling lies. The bigger the better. So it is not more of the same it is much WORSE.

[WFV]

Is there nothing concrete about the election process anymore?

I cannot stand this woman and will never vote for her. Ever.

And to think I was excited to see her enter the race oh, so long ago.....

[ntmessage]

The bogus posting on Huff PO only to imply that Clinton is at fault when Dean deserves all the blame is silly. We have 50 states not 48. Dean needs to do a revote or seat those states as voted. None of this split the delegates; we plan to give them a voice once we know the winner or any other BS that does not resolve this prima fascia issue in a way that stands up to logic.

If they violated the rules, then revote. None of this made up ridiculous subjective fairness to whomever candidates or rules. The people are all that matters, not politicians.

Not counting two of our largest states is illegitimate by any democratic measure. This number is simply the real number in the rules.

[Bobrobert]

Let me guess please!!!

You like that woman.

Good try.

I vote with you - that woman will lose if we don't cheat for her.

She deserves the nomination.

She has lied a dozen or more times for this nomination.

Give it to her.

[KiwisCanFly]

U unfairly blame Dean, others blame Obama.
HRC did agree that FLA and MI"s vote wouldn"t count and that she would not take part in campaigning there. She bears as much responsibility for their votes not being counted as anyone else.
Do u think she should renege on her pledge?
It is hypocritical of her to suggest that these votes be counted now, after pledging not to count them.
HRC appears to be comfortable promising one thing and then conveniently changing her mind when the results are not beneficial for her nomination.
Are u comfortable with this?

[BetterDeadthanRedState]

I don't know why it's unfair. If I showed up two weeks early to vote, my vote wouldn't be counted, either. That must be Howard Dean's fault!

[WMichaelTenery]

yes and Hillary would like to use the 2 states to overturn the voting in the other 48. And if that doesn't work she has already pledged to take it to the convention and try to get the vote overturned completely by super delegates. luckily that is all but impossible after tonight.

[writerswrite]

Explain to me how voting Michigan as voted is fair? Obama's name was not on the ballot. The only reason Clinton "won" is because she broke her own pledge to remove her name. There is no way in hell that seating Michigan as is is fair to ANYBODY, least of all Obama's supporters in Michigan.