Juan Cole: Clinton's Iran Comments "Monstrous"

Informed Content:

I had complained at the time that this diction is monstrous. I mean, it is surreal to have Democrats discussing whether it is appropriate for the US to "totally obliterate" another country. It would be one thing if she had threatened the Iranian military. Targeting civilians, who would be included in the "total" obliteration, is a war crime.

Clinton stood by her remarks: "I don't think it's time to equivocate. [Iran has] to know they would face massive retaliation. That is the only way to rein them in." The premise that "they" only understand the language of massive violence is in fact a rightwing premise more characteristic of W. and Ariel Sharon than of the Democratic Party tradition.

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Comments

[TheShoveler]

As a Democrat in the RFK-McGovern mold and tradition, I'm rather sick of reading Cole's radical left-wing screeds, especially when he in takes statements out-of-context. What he finds so objectionable did not come out of the blue. Ahmadinejad, has made plain his desire to wipe Israel off the map. On the day of the Pennsylvania primary, Chris Cuomo of ABC News asked Clinton what she would do if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons, and she gave a clear, straight answer. Days earlier during the ABC News-sponsored debate in Philadelphia, Obama was asked a similarly direct question: ""Should it be US policy now to treat an Iranian attack on Israel as if it were an attack on the United States?"" His response was halting and tepid: ""I think it is very important that Iran understands that an attack on Israel is an attack on our strongest ally in the region, one that we " one whose security we consider paramount, and that " that would be an act of aggression that we " that I would " that I would consider an attack that is unacceptable, and the United States would take appropriate action." What would be an appropriate response to Iran"s unprovoked first-strike nuclear obliteration of Haifa or Tel Aviv? Does Obama believe that it is necessary to convince the Iranian regime that we are prepared to take military action against them in the defense of Israel? If so, how?

[Sabreen60]

Gee, we do interpret the way that suits us. Sen. Obama gave a reasoned answer to the question. If he becomes President he will have to deal with Iran. I think he may stand a better chance at diplomacy if he doesn't have to go in with the baggage of "we will obliterate you". AND I suggest you read the below from "Mulegino".

[CommonSensePlease]

Hillary's comments are MONSTRUOUS and RECKLESS ad OUTRAGEOUS! The rest of the world is wondering what is happening with the CLINTONS! No much difference between the CLINTONS and the BUSHES! Democrats of Indiana and North Carolina REJECT that type of politics and pandering! The United States after 16 years of the Clinton-Bush chaos deserve much better!

DON't GET FOOLED! Vote COMMON SENSE CANDIDATE: OBAMA!

[WorldsGreatestActor]

It seems that Hillary is the latest to proclaim herself "The Chief" of Team America World Police. Is she so blinded by the pursuit of office that she can't see how this ultra aggressive comment will only serve to drive world opinion of America even lower. Pandering to the blood lusts of ultra conservatives just seems so counter intuitive to democratic principles. Obama seems to be the only rational person standing in hurricane of hysteria. Durka, Durka...

[Meggie]

in giving the answer she gave, clinton completely overlooked the fact that we consider most of the iranian people to be friendly to us. we consider that they are opressed by their fundamentalist government and they would prefer to interact with the west in a more modern and civil way.
or is all of that a lie?

[chery]

Shoveler..­. this was a load too far for most voters! First of all, Hillary's answer was meant for the AIPAC, not the American voters. So why would we instantly hit the red button if Israel were attacked? Is that what we're now asking of our future presidents? Will you instantly destroy every living being in a nation that says terrible things about Israel? Nice spin, but no sale!

[Hallucinocynic]

Wait a sec - do we stand up for America or Israel? Aren't we already standing up for Iraq?

EVERYTHING can be negotiated.

[5thGenDem]

Negotiate AFTER a nuclear attack (which was how the question was posed)?! That makes LOTS of sense!

[going2ireland]

Hillary's plan for working this out is to go to the table for negotiations (once and once only). If Iran refuses Hillary's proposal for peace, Hillary in all her glorious stubbornness will continue with her rhetoric in any further negotiations.

The definition of negotiations is:
1. a discussion intended to produce an agreement; "the buyout negotiation lasted several days"; "they disagreed but kept an open dialogue"; "talks between Israelis and Palestinians"
2. the activity or business of negotiating an agreement; coming to terms

Hillary goes into these meeting without any intentions of "produce" and agreement. She goes in determined that it is her way or the highway (i.e. her health care plan in the 90's).

Thus, the war between Iran and israel begins.

Obama is always open for negotiations - not JUST on his terms.

Therein lies the difference between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama

[chery]

What happens if a nuclear weapon is dropped on a nuclear arsenal? Well, if Iran strikes Israel and then Israel strikes Iran, and we add our nuclear weapons to the mess and perhaps Russia joins in for support of Iran, we'd have a middle east made of glass! Yep... that would pretty much end our dependence on middle eastern oil, hey? Of course, after the nuclear winter that would follow such a show down of hostile machismo types... there wouldn't be many left healthy enough to bother complaining about it! But then Hillary supporters always forget which way the wind is blowing!

[Sandy972]

Are you people out there insane? What the hell do you mean that it is ok to destroy an entire country?
By the way, we give millions to Israel so they can defend themselves. So you want our guys and gals to die for another country, even one that is as devisive as Israel? Do you not see the hiporcracy in this as a rational country would?

Israel may be our friends, but there are many other countries in the region that are also our friend. And Israel is also a big component in the mess we have in the Middle East. Look at Gaza right now.
Sorry if that offends some of you, but I am half Jewish and have visited Israel and also lived in the Middle East for some time. They all have their faults, but the United States also is not the innocent it pretends to be. Hillary is using the tactic to get the Jewish vote, but I would say that 99% of my Jewish friends are voting for Obama. Of course the right wing, fanatical Christians are really the ones she is playing to. What a disgrace that there are people who actively believe what she says. If this is being elite (I was brought up lower middle class) than you are saying that just because I am intelligent and use my brain constantly, not just to vote for someone that I know nothing about, then "elite I am".

[5thGenDem]

So after Iran obliterates Israel with a nuclear attack (which was the hypothetical circumstance in the question Clinton was asked), the US does NOTHING? Get it through your Obama-addled heads: Clinton did NOT dream up this scenario! It was a question asked during the debate and she answered it. You folks all imply she pulled this threat out of the blue! I wish someone would ask Obama the same question (and not let him weasel out a direct answer with something like "I'd never let it get to that point)."

[Sabreen60]

So you're saying that if Iran nuked Israel, which we all know it cannot do. You don't have a problem with obliterating the entire nation of Iran - women, children everybody. Ok, now I understand you even more clearly

[mijumom]

She shouldn't have answered such a stupid question. And, she shouldn't have been willing to seize a moment to placate suckers like you. That is all that was. "I'm Hillary Clinton and I talk tough". Why the hell are people so gullible? I guess that is why propaganda is utilized, because it seems to work so well with most people...

[going2ireland]

You fail to understand that Hillary not once said anything about negotiating with Iran before it gets to this point. NOT ONCE. What does that tell YOU?

[PrdAmerican]

She's outrageous on so many levels, but this comment really takes the cake. When you apply this "obliterate" remark with her belief that she is going to single handedly disperse the OPEC cartel I swear, she is not a sane human being.

[HippieChick]

"She's outrageous on so many levels, but this comment really takes the cake"

Just what this nation needs...an­other delusional­-sabre-rat­tling-war-­monger-con­trol-freak to further destabilize the middle east.

[sydney01]

The Iranian Ambassador to the UN said that her comments violated UN agreements.

We can not afford another careless leader that talks trash to win points. This isn't a game, we have very serious issues at stake.

Just like the Gas Tax Holiday, Hillary has shown that she is willing to hurt citizens and lie to voters to get ahead politically. I don't trust that.

[HumeSkeptic]

Why is this a surprise? Hillary has always been pro-NeoCon. Just look at her voting record. And she has made no secret that she would continue the NeoCon approach of dividing the world into good and evil, and refuse to talk to the "evil".

Hillary is pro-NeoCon. Period.

And there is no reason to believe that she would pull out if Iraq. She would most likely find an excuse, such as fabricated evidence of Iran's involvement in Iran, then declare that we must stay in Iraq.

[BadCompany]

Iran's involvement in Iran is an excuse that BushCo would use!

[HumeSkeptic]

:-) That second Iran should be Iraq.

[5thGenDem]

You wouldn't know a Neo-Con if he bit you in the fannie! You should do a little research on the breed as well as Sen. Clinton's record, as you're clearly ignorant of both.

[sd4peace]

Please don't bite us!

[DennyCrane]

Any candidate who talks of obliterating another country when they haven't done anything yet has no business being president. This along with her Iraq War vote shows that Hillary is just like George Bush, too worried about looking tough for fear that she will be accused of being weak.

[Sabreen60]

Not "Denny Crane" - LOL - why not Alan Shore?

[5thGenDem]

Denny, you make as much sense here as you do on "Boston Legal!" You don't wait until after someone does the unthinkable to let them know the consequences of such actions. The threat of massive retaliation kept the Soviet Union in check for decades, and hopefully the same message will dispel any Iranian thoughts of a nuclear attack on Israel.

[HumeSkeptic]

What unthinkable? Iran doesn't have nukes? What's unthinkable is obliterating a people for no good reason.

And Iran is not Soviet Union.

What you are supporting is pre-emptive, unnecessary war, exactly what Bush did in Iraq. And look at the consequenc­es.It has devastated America’s moral authority abroad, increased the number of terrorists, caused massive death and suffering to millions, diminished America’s prestige by shameless acts such as torture, made the Middle East and the world a more dangerous place than ever before, set a shameless precedent for unprovoked (pre-emptive) war, caused death and injury to tens of thousand American soldiers, wasted over $1.5 trillion, contributed heavily to the decline of our economy, and all this to satisfy the depraved goal of a few ( http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm ) seeking “benevolent hegemony” and world domination, while mutilating the long cherished American values of peaceful coexistence and justice.

[Sabreen60]

Wrong!!! What would America's attitude be toward a country that said "we will obliterate you"? You are wrong on all counts. The fact is that both the US and the Soviet Union had nuclear weapons and both countries new that neither could survive a nuclear war. AND diplomacy was going all hold time. That's why it was called a "cold war". We were arguing with each other and telling each other about how strong we were, but I don't remember any country telling the other we will nuke you off the face of the earth. Geeezzz.

[nerakami]

if you didn't notice... Iran, Irag and other arab nations with radical groups bursting at their seams.... ARE NOTHING like the Soviet Union back in the day. It WAS one of these radical groups that was able to launch an attack on US soil. Let's stop playing around. This is not mickey mouse business. This is real life and we need to get real with the consequences of our flippant comments and impulsive actions.

[going2ireland]

Grrr - why, oh why, aren't you Hillary supporters mentioning that Hillary NEVER mentioned something she would do to prevent what led up to this. She never said she would negotiate with Iran so things would not esculate to that point.

Grrr.

[Mschmal]

Iran is run by people who believe it is their religious duty to destroy Israel.

Some things are NOT up for negotiation.

Its about time Democrats stood up for America.

[Sabreen60]

Look, here's the bottom line. Iran DOES NOT have the capability to destroy Israel. With all the billions of dollars the US sends to Israel, I would hope they could at least defend themselves from Iran. For you to suggest that Democrats don't stand up for America is unpatriotic and un-American. Democrats die for this country in very war including this one. AND if this country listened to people like you there would be no more America. Do you think we can bully the entire world? I bet you picked on kids smaller than you.

[HumeSkeptic]

Brainwashed.

[Welly]

so we take it upon ourselves to kill them all. great way of thinking.

[Hallucinocynic]

Wait a sec - do we stand up for America or Israel? Aren't we already standing up for Iraq?

EVERYTHING can be negotiated.

[WilliamBentley2]

Do you think they would do it (attempt to destroy Israel that is)? Standing up for America means standing up for the principles of rational thought and consideration of humanity. You believe "standing up for America" means threatening to nuke people? I thought "rogue nations" did that sort of thing.

See, here's the thing: you don't need to make blustery threats *when you have a nuclear arsenal that can destroy half of the planet in 45 minutes*. You've got many more tools than the jackhammer when performing surgery.

[findingthetruth]

Iran IS responding to Hillary's comments as we speak. Continue to ignore THIS----and there will be unnecessary consequences. Why fan the flames? Hillary boasts of experiences often. Are those statements suppose to prove "toughness"? What about wisdom?

[mulegino]

First of all, the scenario of "Iran attacking Israel with nukes," is a totally Orwellian inversion of the truth.
The only, repeat, only country in the Middle East with a nuclear arsenal is Israel. Israel, of course, still refuses to admit this fact in an official capacity. Israel, unlike Iran, has refused to sign the NNPT, refuses to admit IAEA inspectors, etc.
Iran has a right, under the NPPT, to develop a nuclear program for civilian energy purposes. The IAEA as well as the American National Intelligence Estimate both declare that there is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons.
Clinton made the "obliterate" statement for two reasons,neither of which are in the interests of this nation:

To placate AIPAC

To appear tough as "the commander gal"

[5thGenDem]

Wrong! Clinton was answering a question concerning how to respond to a hypothetical Iranian NUCLEAR attack on Israel. Such an attack may be an "Orwellian inversion of the truth" as you say, but Clinton didn't ask the question - she answered during the debate on ABC

What other response could there be at that point - diplomatic negotiation?

[nerakami]

The correct response ought to have been.... well, since we are NOT in that scenario, let me be very clear that I will use every options available to me as President, to ENSURE that Iran NEVER has access to nuclear weapons. That includes, diplomacy, negotiations and engaging all other Arab nations as well as Nato nations to come together as a united front against IRAN. Therefore, the KEY issue here is making sure that under no circumstances, will IRAN have nuclear weapons.

That is the answer representative of a Presidential candidate. Hell, maybe I'll put my name on the ballot.

[apoyo]

She can refuse to engage in hypotheticals as she did when she thought she was ahead in the early debates. She has no trouble deflecting questions she doesn't want to answer.

But now that she is behind she is willing to let the media control the debate. Is that what a leader does?

[Joedlh]

Independentjunkie, rjean, and itsbushstupid, when one hasn't heard of a person, it's a good idea to do some research before reflexively posting an argumentum ad hominum because you didn't like something he said. At the very least, it keeps one from painting oneself as an uninformed dolt, which is always a good thing.

If you're too lazy to look up the links that were posted or go to Juan Cole's blog site http://www.juancole.com//), let me just clue you in a little: Juan Cole is a foremost Middle East scholar who has authored books and professional articles for decades and who actually knows some of the languages.

Having said that, I must admit that it doesn't take a Middle East scholar to determine that Clinton's "obliterate" comment was indeed monstrous.

[JohnIII]

Here language was stronger than anything McCain has said.

[Grunty1]

And that kind of "strength" is exactly what we as a nation do NOT NEED.

[kellygrrrl]

the entire Clinton Campaign has been a MONSTROSITY in my view

[nerakami]

We don't need anyone with "credentials" to tell us that Hillary has once again, cast America as a war loving people. We NEED to move away from that perception as the citizens of the Arab nations will wholeheartedly side with the radicals to bring down this nation that relies on its might rather than its intelligence and wisdom in diplomatic efforts.

Enough! We would like to preserve this country for future generations. Keep the cowboy mentality to the movies and tv dramas. This is the real world where real people die! Let's grow up for God's sake.

[SDgirl]

Words matter, tone matters. How do you start diplomacy and negotiation with someone when you start the conversation off with, "We will totally obliterate you."