Young Evangelicals Abandoning GOP Over Iraq, Economy

Seattle Times:

Michael Dudley is the son of a preacher man.

He's a born-again Christian with two family members in the military. He grew up in the Bible Belt, where almost everyone he knew was Republican. But this fall, he's breaking a handful of stereotypes: He plans to vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

"I think a lot of Christians are having trouble getting behind everything the Republicans stand for," said Dudley, 20, a sophomore at Seattle Pacific University.

Dudley's disenchantment with the GOP isn't unique among young, devoutly Christian voters. According to a September 2007 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 15 percent of white evangelicals between 18 and 29, a group traditionally a shoo-in for the GOP, say they no longer identify with the Republican Party. Older evangelicals are also questioning their traditional allegiance, but not at the same rate.

Read the whole story: Seattle Times

Comments

[crossoverwriter]

Evengalists for Obama, yes we can!!!!!

[Rippinit]

Partial birth abortion rights evangalists maybe. What would Jesus do? I doubt he would kill half born babies. I am thinking that might actually qualify as murder-just one more way to earn a ticket to hell.

[ObamaFarmer]

You claim to know God's mind? Do you even realize how blasphemous that is?

[saltpeter]

In the end, fundies need to learn that this IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. They need to realize that the intentions of the Founding Fathers were to move this great experiment called America past destructive binds such as those that mix politics with religion, the hinder the strength and progress of other nations. We live in the most pluralistic nation on Earth, and our laws and lawmakers need to reflect that.

[MajorKong]

1 Samual 15:3 Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

[isis]

In the Bible it talks about some seeds falling in the wrong place and not growing. Some embryos don't make it.

[MajorKong]

McCain voted to kill Iraqi babies!

[konastephen]

THE LEFT IS REPLETE WITH BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATORY PREJUDICE

Children differentiate themselves from parents in adolescence. It is a phenomenon commonly discussed in textbooks on child development. And most PKs (pastor's kids) and MKs (missionaries' kids) go through a liberal phase during differentiation. I did. Most eventually outgrow the liberalism. They recognize their parents as people and the reality that their faith is not a matter of personal preference but rather the personal pursuit of universal truths.

Some of course don't ever outgrow their differentiation phase (Franky Schaeffer for example) and some of the most famous liberals have been PKs or MKs who for whatever reasons (usually emotional trauma caused by ignorant unbelievers or misguided believers) never really broke through to understand the nature of reality and faith.

It's not hard for a PK or MK to get confused these days, what with the Left's glowering malevolence towards Truth and Meaning and Faith, especially faith that is free and strong and public and not not beaten-down and imprisoned into persecuted, cowering secrecy. I have great compassion for the children of those soldiers of the Moral Majority. The truth about their parents has been completely obscured behind a fearful barrage of fundamentalist left-wing hatred and ill-will. They deserve better than the vulgar mockery or predatory seduction of the Left. But I have faith. Not in them so much as in God. They are God's children and he won't abandon them. You people watch. This story is only started.

[ObamaFarmer]

This garbage about liberals having no values is just ignorant. Just because we have different values than you doesn't mean we have no values.

We liberals value peace and justice and compassion. Conservatives value obedience and war and hatred. So where does that put my God, the Christian God?

Jesus helped the poor and the infirm, urged reconciliation, favored the minority. Yes, Jesus, my liberal hero!

[Rippinit]

Are you talking about the Jesus that whipped the temple money changers or the one that said that all unrepentant sinners were going to hell?

Do you think that Jesus would call partial birth abortion murder???

Obama legislatively supported the act of partial birth abortion. Hmmm.

[Redrover666]

Vietnam, Korea, WWII: all started by liberals

Compassion: Have you read these posts? Have you not seen liberal students on the news attacking a conservative speaker they invited? It's not rare. Or how about disrupting catholic church services dressed up as transvestite nuns.

Hatred: Have you heard of a guy named Rev. Wright? Read these posts. Most of them are dripping with hatred.

Obedience and Justice: Shame on those conservatives for believing in the rule of law!

[newsketeer]

All that glowering malevolence would make me move away from home. Maybe missionary's kids have finally seen the light and are embarrassed. Another explanation for the flourishing liberal minds is the disappointment with enculturated ignorance, emotional trauma caused by ignorant and misguided believers.

[Rippinit]

Misguided believers that actually read the Bible???

[kappa08]

shucks…do you think that maybe the fact that they got NOTHING out of their overzealous voting has something to do with it? Other than blocking stem cell research and making intelligent people nuts. What did the religious right accomplish by voting down Republican lines.?
NOW they get it!?...that there are bigger issues then their personal faith when it comes to government. I'm sorry but I could care less about their opinion, who they plan to vote for and whether or not their religion is valid. I realize that are a voting force. But that’s IT. In my opinion they are sad commentary on natural evolution (see Pilgrims in Texas).
Face it, you got used like a whore.

[Annoula]

...and dumped out like a condom!
[I wonder whatever happened to "intelligent design" when these clowns were "created"!]

[Rippinit]

huh... What?

[andyboy]

hinnis See Profile I'm a Fan of hinnis
My point is that these statements are consistent with Obama's religion; black liberation theology. Here is a statement from its founder, James H. Cone, describing Obama's religion:


Gotta love this hinnis. I guess whites never did anything to blacks. Whats with these crazy black people? And their crazy idea that whites don't like them? I just don't see why anybody whose black would bear any animosity towards the poor innocent white. Right hinnis?

Just look at history and how lovely ole whitey has been to the black race. Why would any black need liberation?

[hinnis]

Your statement is irrelevant to the issue, unless you're saying that slavery and Jim Crow justifies black racism against whites right now. If you are, then we can agree to disagree.

[drunkentheologian]

Hinnis, You have continually demonstrated that your proficiency in dealing honestly with theological matters is slightly lacking. Repeating the same misinformed swill over and over again does not make it true and in fact, leads people to not buy anything you are selling. Before attempting to "teach" people about Black Liberation Theology you should spend some time learning about theology, religious history, and comparative religions. Demonstrate this knowledge without copy and paste and people will begin to listen. Your product might be worth selling then.

[BlackWidowPilot]

hin,

justifies? No. *Explains? A great deal, yes.

Now take a break from your fixation with Wright and spend some quality time going after "Hundred Years War" McCain's spiritual advisor Hagee.

IMHO Hagee is ore than deserving of your attentions...

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

OK hin, I'll bite; just what is it about this that so worries you? What *precisely* do you think Senator Obama will actually do if elected President?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[andyboy]

A blogger wrote:

"Seriously, it is very insulting to the intelligence of an objective observer to suggest that Obama did not know what Rev. Wright was teaching OR that he didn't believe in the theology of a church he attended for 20 years. If you have to believe that, however, to get through the day, more power to you."

Maybe Obama just went there for the God part. The religion. The worship of Christ.

I was my Fathers son my whole life and while I love him and miss him I didn't believe everything he did just because I am his son. Your reasoning is faulty and illogical my friend. As much as you would like for it to be true that to have a certain pastor at your church automatically means you subscribe to his views is way off. base. I'm sure parishoners of all types of church's all over America could attest to this fact.

Godd try you racist scumball.

[transendentilist]

Was your father running for president??? That's the difference, Skippy. For a man to sit in a church for twenty years, listening to a lunatic like wright, and presume he hasn't heard wright rant on about "whitey," is just naive as hell.

Obama also called wright, his "spiritual mentor." Well, we know what wright thinks about spirituality.

[isis]

I would like to hear more about Hagee. The article in the Rolling Stone about that type of mindset was really interesting.

[Redrover666]

"to have a certain pastor at your church automatically means you subscribe to his views is way off. base"

Really? Then why would a person go to a church who's views he disagrees with?
Is there a shortage of churches in Chicago? Are there no churches in Chicago where he could get the "God part", hold the hate, pass the friendship and love.

If Obama didn't agree with the message, why didn't he just stand up and leave?

[drunkentheologian]

Really? So everyone who goes to church believes everything they hear in the pulpit? I know people who belong to a variety of faiths and a variety of denominations within Christianity and I know very few who believe everything they hear but most belong for a specific ministry or because they developed intense relationships in their community of faith. If you believe that pastors are the only thing that draw people to church then you are seriously off base. When I have heard sermons that I disagreed with I did not stand up I took the time to reflect on why I disagreed. You know? That whole critical thinking thing? Are you that out of touch to believe that people never go to churches where they might disagree with aspects of its teaching or some practices?

[hinnis]

Please post any of my statements which you consider to be racist. If you cannot, please consider your apology to be accepted in advance. Thank you.

[BlackWidowPilot]

"Citizen: I don't like Hagee, either."

Then take a break from your fixation and go after Hagee; IMHO he is far more deserving of such attention than Wright.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[FACINGREALIT]

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER -

Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, and other news media all lied and distorted the image of pastor Jeremiah Wright. regarding Wright's "chicken roost" remark which were quotes from a white US Ambassador, Peck.

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/CNN_MSNBC_LIED_see_Rev_Wright_s_9_11_comment_in_context

[Rippinit]

Did they distort the comment about the US injecting black people with the aids virus???

Did they distort the fact that Wright financially supported the Sandanistas in Nicaragua???

NO. And they did not distort the fact that Wright is pro Farrakhan or that he said God Damn the US either.

[Rippinit]

Obama went there for the political clout and he knew exactly what was being taught. I fail to see how a true Christian can possibly vote for partial birth abortion. That seems quite impossible to me.

[vietveter]

Now that the God Squad has pretty much destroyed the country they wish to give us back the broken bits to fix ( again )

I promise to keep my politics out of your church

PLEASE RETURN THE FAVOR

Keep your church out of my politics!!!
That is the miracle I am looking for.

[SJeffH]

Usually, I enjoy reading the different opinions that are represented in these comments. Unfortunately, the comments relating to this article show just how inflammatory the religion and race topics can be. Frankly, I'd like to see some of the people here just try to keep it down a little.

Here's to the separation of church and state.

[FACINGREALIT]

Actually "Hinnis" Hillary has been a member of a very 'cult-like' church organization for many years. Please learn to use your search engine before you may comments that can be disputed. Also, doen't it amaze ANYONE that the sound-bites that were used against Rev Wright were from only 2 tapes in over 30 years of preaching. Don't you think that if this man preached like this for every Sunday for over the 20 years Barack attended that there would be more tapes? Remember, Senators/public figures have travel logs and Obama was not present nor was this man preaching like this for 20 years or we would definitely have PROOF of that on Fox (Fixed) News.

Also, may you note - Rev Wright was forced out of the church - No pastor leaves his church if he is still able to lead but his thinking was not progressive and most of his congregants learned of these tapes during this primary season. Blacks don't leave their church because church to us is about the people that we worship with - NOT THE PASTOR. Think on these things before you slander someone!

Now lets learn a little something about Hillary's (not talked about ) religion. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich

May God Bless you - My Friend!

[Redrover666]

Is the cult-like church organization you are referring to called "Baptists"?

How many times over 20 years would it be OK for a white preacher to condemn black people as the root of all white people's problems, make a tape of it and distribute it as widely as possible? Would it be OK to slander black folks, say... just a couple of times? Or would it be OK, maybe four times. Would it be OK to do it every Sunday for twenty years then, get rich doing it and retire to a mansion on a golf course next door to your wicked oppressors?

May God Bless you too - My Friend!

[hinnis]

What will evangelicals think when the get a load of Obama's black liberation theology:

(1) “To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people." (2) "While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism." (3) "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

My problem with Obama attending this church for 20 years is that it speaks to his character and judgment. If Hillary had attended a white racist church for 20 years, and considered its white racist pastor to be her "mentor and spiritual adviser," it would not be unreasonable to assume that she was a racist. In Obama's case, the converse is also a reasonable assumption.

[BlackWidowPilot]

If you truly believe that tis screed is *Senator Obama's* personal belief system, I've got some beachfront property in Utah to sell you right on the Great Salt Lake.

BTW, while we're on the subject of God-fearing Christian "family values," let's review the actual performance record of the self-appointed "party of family values:"

http://www.armchairsubversive.org

"Family values" like Caligula or the locals in THE HILLS HAVE EYES.

Better a President Obama than four more years of a partisan hack defender of the "Gang of Pedophiles" and their heretical dominionist propaganda and corporate skullduggery.

If it is character and judgement you are concerned about, how about "Hundred Years War" McCain's taking a bribe from Charles Keating, his apparent relationship with Vicky Isemann, to say nothing of his rampant pandering to the K Street lobbyists, his consistent voting against the needs of our Vets, his inability to tell a Sunni from a Shiite, his deliberate courting of the endorsement of the heretical dominionist bigot Hagee, ad nauseum?

This independent voter would rather take a chance on Senator Obama than four more years of war for oil and empire launched and sustained by over 900+ *documented* lies about WMDs and debunked claims of connections between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, runaway foreign debt, a continuing foreclosure epidemic, cronyism and corruption worthy of Boss Tweed, NCLB, Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans still looking like Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped, ad infinite nauseum.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[hinnis]

No, just because he attended the church for 20 years, and considered Rev. Wright to be his "mentor and spiritual adviser," that doesn't mean that he actually believes in the church. He probably just went there because it was close to his house.

Seriously, it is very insulting to the intelligence of an objective observer to suggest that Obama did not know what Rev. Wright was teaching OR that he didn't believe in the theology of a church he attended for 20 years. If you have to believe that, however, to get through the day, more power to you.

[davidbjas]

I keep coming back to read this primarily because the very notion of God being racist. I am white, my fiancee is black. I grew up in the so-called "conservative" home, she in a democrat "liberal" home. In our many discussions on politics, I have found we have more in common than we have difference politically. The rest of her family is more involved in the party activities than she, and they are accepting (if not welcoming) of our relationship.

God is not White, God is not Black, God is not Asian. God is God. The reason why the pictures of Jesus are WASPy or Black is to fit the cultural mold. Give the follower someone to identify with. In reality, what would Jesus have looked like? Arabic. Black hair, black eyes, dark skin. Like anyone who is a native of the Palestine area today. Groups such as the KKK, Black Panthers, Hitler Youth and the Neo-Nazi party are all the perversion of reality.

The Catholic Church has done wonders to sully the basic religion that is Christianity, and that comes from almost 1,800 years of fighting, raping, fear-mongering and social destruction. Christianity is much more than following a church leader, Pope or denomination. It is a personal relationship where Scripture is read and applied to life. I believe it was someone in this forum who mentioned Mother Theresa. That is the application of the Christian life.

[davidbjas]

I am a Christian, and wish I could be like Mother Theresa in the way she displayed her faith. While I do not believe works will grant anyone entrance into Heaven, I do believe her faith was genuine and displayed to the world through her desire to act.

Someone else in here mentioned that they could not reconcile the God of Leviticus with the God of the New Testament. Well, I hate to say it this way, but there are two sides to every coin. You can love someone one minute, and be angry and vengeful the next. Don't we all do that on the road everyday? Why can't God be vengeful and wrathful; causing the Earth to swallow disobedient people then a few hundred years later show the other side of the coin with redemption and sacrifice? Don't we raise our children in almost the same method?

What I am seeing in this forum are, to some extent, the most venomous barbs I have ever seen traded. However I do have to give kudos to everyone for keeping the name calling down to a dull roar as well as eloquent.

[lauram]

Um...because it's supposed to be someone who is above being "vengeful". THere are no "two sides" to god. If god is no better than us, what need do we have of him/her/it. No thanks, I'll move along until and unless i see a god worth worshipping.

[davidbjas]

I read all of this with great interest primarily due to my indifferent attitude toward the election. No one is lighting a fire under me. No one is making me think. If anything, I am bordering on relieved that Hillary is almost out of the running. I'm interested to see (and hear) what kind of race it will be between Obama and McCain.

Am I a Republican? Not necessarily.
Am I a Democrat? Not necessarily.
Am I a Libertarian? Not necessarily.
What am I? I am me.

[davidbjas]

I believe that social ills need to be cured at home before we can play referee to another country's issues.

I believe that our troops are better off at the dinner tables of their families, enjoying life at home.

I believe that if "first strike" is needed, it should be the only strike.

I believe energy independence is necessary for our social survival

I believe turning off the TV and turning into each other will benefit the collective understanding of our needs, as a society.

I believe that people with more than one home and who tell others how to live need to BE the example of sacrificial living.

I believe post-secondary education should be free for US citizens of any age. Not just to illegal immigrants in Massachusetts.

I believe that as parents we need to have the ability to opt out of the public school in the community in which we live to send our children to a school we deem proper.

I believe all students have the right to a current text book for all of their classes.

I believe the construction of conspiracy theories is an absolute waste of time and mental energy.

[Waitaminute]

I will not criticize these evangelicals. Its a good thing to become wiser. But until you get even wiser, don't preach to me. I live in reality. I look at a person's actions. So far, a majority of you have voted many time for tyrants like the swaggering fool in the white house. Who kill, torture, rape and blow little innocent babies to bits, WITHOUT BLINKING AN EYE. Quoting your holy book means nothing to me. Anybody can do that.

[carefulcautious]

We don't need superstitious moralists in our party. hit the road, Christian.

Obama/Edwards 08! See, su pueda! Yes, I did!

[hinnis]

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASISVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".
Barack Obama

From 'Dreams of my Father', "The emotion between the races could never be pure, even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves. Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race (WHITE) would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart." Barack Obama

From Dreams Of My Father: "That hate hadn't gone away," he wrote, BLAMING "WHITE PEOPLE ? some CRUEL, some IGNORANT, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives."
Barack Obama

From 'Dreams Of My Father', "There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs," he wrote. "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on,to show your LOYALTY TO THE BLACK MASSES, TO STRIKE OUT and name names"
Barack Obama

[tyruler]

Only a racist can selectively point out comments he finds offensive...

[hinnis]

Ah, the race card. The last refuge of those who have no argument.

[hinnis]

My point is that these statements are consistent with Obama's religion; black liberation theology. Here is a statement from its founder, James H. Cone, describing Obama's religion:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

[biffula]

And you can see they're not turning to the Dem/communist party. They're fed up with Repubs. Who isnt? But dont pat yourselves on the back too much Dems/commies, they're fed up with the way the Repubs have behaved. You know, by spending like the dems/commies themselves. Thinking if they just cut our taxes we'd be happy with the monstrous debt being racked up. Well, we've seen the light. Have the Repubs? I doubt it. I vote libertarian now. The only party left that is for small govt. Too bad not enough are realizing it though. Now we'll have Osama and a Dem congress. Lookout. You thought our deficits were bad. Wait til we get communist health care. The country will be broke in 7-9 years. You heard it hear first.

[AMJordan]

WHEN COMRADE OBAMA IS ELECTED YOU WILL BE SENT TO AN RE-EDUCATION CAMP IN SOUTH DAKOTA, CAPITALIST DOG!

[MajorKong]

Comrades! He's on to us! Quick, hide the Marx and Lenin posters!

[BlackWidowPilot]

Don't you dare! I am the commissar here, and I say we stand our ground and fight the fascist capitalist running dogs and burrowing squirrels like good heroes of the revolution of the proletariat!

So there.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[hinnis]

The media, the DNC and the Democratic Party elite has tried to shove Obama down our throats for many months now. In spite of this, Hillary is still fighting hard to protect this country against the most deceptive and divisive candidate in modern history. Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry and the rest of the party establishment are going to get a big surprise in November, should Obama be the Democratic nominee, when he is soundly defeated by voters crossing over to McCain from their own party. We Democrats who will not sit idly by and let this dangerous wing of the party seize control will fight on, because we love our families and our country more than the Democratic Party, which is now only a shadow of the party of hope and promise it purports to represent.

[tyruler]

Thank God I don't subscribe to "your" racist Democratic Party.

[hinnis]

Ah, but you do subscribe to racism, if you support Obama.

[AMJordan]

Go away teeny-bopper. Taylor Marsh is waiting for you.

[hinnis]

Another intelligent comment from an "educated" Obama supporter.

[Rippinit]

Why do some of my more poignant comments mysteriously disappear?

I am not surprised that I am detecting selective censorship.

[transendentilist]

Happens here all the time. It's HuffPo's "democratic," ideal.

[AMJordan]

It is quite possible that they were made on an off-topic comment and then got scrubbed. Then again some of my better stuff has disappeared into the ether also.

[reelcobra]

I have a close friend who was a charter member of the Alabama Christ Church. He went for 20 years.

Well, he's out. After McBusHitleraburton, and all that right wing fear mongering.

Luckily, he heard Obama's guy on the news, and he is now living in Chicago ant attending Reverend Wright's former church.

Better yet, his left brained children are now sitting in class along with right brained black children, and they know about what the Government has been doing to the right brainers with the AIDs virus.

BHO '08!!

[Rippinit]

You actually think that the US gov injects black people with the AIDS virus???

You are utterly nuts.

[reelcobra]

Pay attention Rip.

Of course I don't. Anyone with a brain (even one racially defined by Wright as being in the left side of my head) knows that is nonsense.

But my friend is a big Obama guy, and he says that if Wright was important enough for Obama to bring his two young daughetrs to listen to every Sunday, he must know what he is talking about.

Do you think Obama would have brought his family to listen to this guy, if Obama didn't agree with his words?

Would you bring your kids to listen to someone you thought was crazy?

So my friend has a more open mind than he used to. (At least the left side of his mind since he is white).

BHO '08!!

[FACINGREALIT]

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER: - He meant syphilis! http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/tuskegee_5-16a.html


Beginning in 1932, the federal government sponsored a study to examine the impact of syphilis involving black men. The experiment went on until 1972 without the test subjects' knowledge, but no President had apologized to the volunteers and their families until President Clinton did so today. Following a background report on the experiment, Charlayne Hunter-Gault looks at what the legacy of Tuskegee.