Before Bitter-Gate: What Obama Said Hours Earlier About Guns

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05/21/08 05:12 AM

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It is a quintessential example of political irony.

Just hours before Sen. Barack Obama uttered his now famous "bitter" comments, suggesting that small town Americans had turned to guns and religion out of economic frustration, he appeared at a different private event and offered a much more nuanced, sympathetic interpretation of gun ownership.

That quote, however, never made it public. And since then, "bitter-gate" metastasized into Obama's biggest liability -- the perception that he is out of touch with average Americans now a key concern for many voters and political kindling for the Senator's opponents.

But is it fair?

Obama argued at the time that his sentiment was correct but his words were not. "What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is they've got family, they've got their faith, they've got the traditions that have been passed onto them from generation to generation," he said shortly after the remarks were made public. "Those aren't bad things. That's what they have left."

And indeed, evidence suggests that, at least when it came to guns, Obama's bitter comment was a true deviation. In the private event just prior to his infamous San Francisco fundraiser, Obama offered an interpretation of Second Amendment rights likely to go over smoother with rural America.

"We need sensible gun laws," said the Senator. "I just got back from Montana where just about everyone has guns. In that culture, fathers and sons bond over hunting. You can't take that away from rural America. But the inner city is different, and we should tighten the laws on gun purchases and close the loopholes in gun show sales to unscrupulous buyers. The gun control people and the right to bear arms people are talking past each other about disconnected topics."

The remarks, delivered at an event in Silicon Valley and shared with The Huffington Post by an attendee, suggest that even in private, Obama's view of gun ownership is far from the strict or condescending anti-Second Amendment characterization that his critics have painted. Rather, they imply that Obama actually does view the right to bear arms as a personal tradition passed through generations, but one that does not necessarily comport to every geographic region. (Obama's campaign didn't dispute the remarks, but wouldn't comment further.)

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And yet, for all his policy papers and public statements, the perception of Obama being out of touch on guns, among other issues, has proven far more predominant. In recent days, for instance, the Republican National Committee has put out a television advertisement calling into question his ability to relate to average Americans, in part by highlighting those remarks.

A Lexis Nexis search for "Barack Obama" and "elitist" tells the story: in the month prior to "bitter-gate," only 150 responses are found, and just a handful actually deal with Obama. In the month that followed, those same search terms yielded more than 2,300 results, almost all of which center on the Senator.

How could one ill-worded remark have such resounding political ripples?

"What makes a comment have legs and stick around is one of the greatest mysteries on journalism and politics," says Charlotte Grimes, a Knight Chair Political Reporting professor at Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications. "You can't predict it. Predictably it has an emotional quality and resonates on a psychological level with journalists and the audience... Anytime you have presidential candidates who are graduates from Ivy League colleges, the whole notion of elitism might come up on some point, and if you have a candidate whose words might specifically be condescending to voters that specifically might come up... and remember elitist is one of those things that Americans just don't like we priced ourselves on being egalitarian."

As Grimes notes, many other presidential and senatorial aspirants have come undone by unfortunate verbal gaffes: Gerald Ford saying that Poland was a free country, Howard Dean's scream, and George Allen calling an opposition videographer "Maccaca," among them.

This is unwelcome news for Obama as he shifts from primary mode to a potential general election match-up. And yet, political observers say, it is not a obstacle incapable of being overcome. In fact, Obama has already taken steps to remedy the bitter-gate fallout and some have proven effective.

"Campaigns aren't just about issues they are about the way to communicate your priorities," said Simon Rosenberg, a well-respected Democratic strategist and president of the NDN, a non-partisan organization. "And for a long time the Obama campaign didn't spend money on television talking about the economic struggles of working class people... and I think there was this magic moment that happened two weeks ago, when on Monday and Tuesday the nation was obsessed with [Reverend Jermiah] Wright and by Wednesday they were obsessed with the gas tax. This will go down as the most critical set of days of the campaign. The Obama campaign was able to use the gas tax issue to pivot and talk about the broader struggles of everyday people and they were able to do it in a way that had previously been hard to them... whatever happened in those magic hours when they produced those spots, they made it abundantly clear that Sen. Obama understood what the average voter was going through."

It is a quintessential example of political irony. Just hours before Sen. Barack Obama uttered his now famous "bitter" comments, suggesting that small town Americans had turned to guns and religion ...
It is a quintessential example of political irony. Just hours before Sen. Barack Obama uttered his now famous "bitter" comments, suggesting that small town Americans had turned to guns and religion ...
 
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The reason people like gaffs are simple. Gaffs give insight to a person’s true character and beliefs. For all of his rhetoric which is packaged for consumption by the masses, a private gaff is believed to have more truth than a speech at a 100K seat stadium.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 05/19/2008

Guns, bitter, 57 states, the Great Depression, translator­s...enough already. Obama is either clueless, dangerous, or disconnected. In unguarded/­unscripted moments his real views and knowledge emerges.

It it was Hillary, or God help us McCain making these outrageous gaffes, they'd be above the fold for weeks.

I figured it out AFTER I voted for him. Fool me once, and all that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 05/14/2008
- Zankee I'm a Fan of Zankee 2 fans permalink

Are you stating that we shouldn't accept Obama's rhetoric and that we should take the opinion of a self-proclaimed "Fool"..?

Similar to what we have been getting from bush for eight years.., a "Fool" leading the "Foolish"....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 05/16/2008

Everything Obama says is always taken out of context.

Everything Clinton says is awful.

It is obama-spin. Obama was caught red handed talking down-while at the same time sticking his nose in the air-to people in small town america. I will cling to my guns & my religion before i EVER cast a vote for Barry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 AM on 05/14/2008
- nomobull I'm a Fan of nomobull 44 fans permalink
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his name is barack not barry . how would you like to be called by a name you no longer choose to useas somebody's idea of an insult. it makes yousmall minded not clever and lessens your point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 05/14/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

nomo--you have an odd sense of what constitutess an insult--BHO's stand on the Second Amendment is enough reason to vote against him

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 05/14/2008

Barry was simply a term of endearment...kinda like Grammy being a typical white woman as she was being thrown under the bus...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 05/15/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

But you were going to give Obama a fair look before those comments, right? Sure.

There's not a reasonable person on the planet who can say, if they're being honest, that these remarks constitute a decisive influence on their vote. How could they? Again, this assumes a rational and reasonable person such as yourself.

It's beyond reason for anyone to conclude that Obama is some sort of elitist snob who doesn't understand what it's like to work hard, scrape by, and look to community, family and tradition for support when the going gets tough. Why? Because that's the life this guy has led! He lived in a family that needed food stamps for a while to make ends meet -- so he was not exactly "born with silver spoon in his mouth."

Had the initial "reporting" on this issue been even barely competent, people would have had a more accurate sense of Obama's reasoning from the start. That's the key point of Sam Stein’s article. Obama was actually EMPATHIZING with people, because he knows how they feel. In comments made only hours apart from the ones that were repeated, gossip column style, by Mayhill Fowler, Obama’s understanding of (and caring for) these people came through clearly.

Ironically, Clinton and McCain both have life circumstances that are far more consistent with a suspicion of “elitism” than Obama.

Serving this issue up as the reason for not voting for Obama is disingenuous. It just doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 05/14/2008

"Campaigns aren't just about issues."

No, more like

"Campaigns aren't about issues."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:29 AM on 05/14/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

This article puts into perspective the discussions that took place when the “bitter” comments were first made public by Mayhill Fowler on HuffPo’s “Off The Bus.” Not surprisingly, there was a lot of criticism of Fowler’s “reporting,” especially for failing to seek comment from the Obama campaign.

In light of this new article, it’s clear that, had this basic journalistic practice been observed, Obama could have pointed to other public statements which gave a more accurate picture of his thinking on this subject.

As this new article makes clear, the “cost” in misinformation caused by Fowler’s piece was significant (“in the month prior to ‘bitter-gate,’ only 150 [Lexis Nexis] responses are found…In the month that followed, those same search terms yielded more than 2,300 results…”).

In an article that followed Fowler’s, Off The Buss co-publisher Jay Rosen defended Fowler’s “bitter” post, saying: “I was proud to publish Mayhill's account, which is partial but truthful, even though I recognize that it touched off an ordeal for the campaign, a media storm that isn't over and could hurt Barack Obama's chances.”

No kidding. Too bad it STILL isn’t over all this time later. Too bad that sloppy work turned out to be “the gift that keeps on giving” for Obama’s unscrupulous opponents, who can continue to use this misleading non-information to give voters a false impression of the candidate.

Rosen described himself, and Fowler, as “Obama supporters.” With “supporters” like this, who needs Rupert Murdock?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 AM on 05/14/2008
- zanngra I'm a Fan of zanngra 4 fans permalink

The problem is Fowler is not a journalist as evidenced by her postings and the fact that she did not honor the (closed to the press) ground rules. She has been following Obama around for months and heard him discuss this topic before in a more artful manner, but decided to pounce on the comments at the fundraiser. Why? She knew how this would play out, either she was trying to damage him or her desire for 15 minutes of fame was too much for her to pass up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 AM on 05/14/2008
- marthlois I'm a Fan of marthlois 27 fans permalink

Not only did Fowler sense how it would turn out - but she continues to write articles about Obama that are questionable and hurtful. I have written to the editor and I'd encourage everyone else to do so. She wasn't able to take the candidate down but I don't doubt that she is proud of herself for a bit of fame. Fame derived from a shameful out-of-context and misleading quote at such an important time for our nation.

I agree with another reader above who considers this a blunder on the campaign's part. They should make every attempt to get those comments put into perspective and put to
rest.

And while they continue to try to vindicate Obama........FOWLER SHOULD BE FIRED!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 AM on 05/14/2008

This is what passes for investigative reporting...kinda Dan Ratherish, wouldn't you say?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 05/15/2008

WHERE IN THE HELL WERE OBAMAS MEDIA PEOPLE...THEY SHOULD HAVE CLARIFIED WITH THE EARLIER STATEMENT IMMEDIATLY, BEFORE THE "ELITIST" CRY BY THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN AND THE PUNDITS...IT WOULD HAVE PUT THIS ISSUE TO REST AND NOT COST OBAMA VOTES IN THE PRIMARIES WHICH FOLLOWED....THE PUNDITS OF COURSE WILL DO ANYTHING TO PROLONG THE CAMPAIGN AND KEEP THEIR CASH COW ALIVE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE--THEY ARE NO LONGER A RELIABLE SOURSE OF INFORMATIO­N..PARTICU­LARLY MSNBC..THEY HAVE BECOME EITHER ALL CAMPAIGN OR PRISON TOURS 24/7--WITH ABOUT 30 SECONDS OF OTHER NEWS INTERJECTED EVERY HOUR. .BIG GAFFE BY OBAMAS PEOPLE IN WHAT WAS UP TO THAT POINT AN ALMOST FLAWLESS CAMPAIGN...HOPE THEY NOW REACT AND SET THIS ISSUE TO REST....WAKE UP!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 AM on 05/14/2008
- knosiswar I'm a Fan of knosiswar 31 fans permalink

Say one thing in private, another in public. Remember Canada and NAFTA. There seems to be a pattern here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 05/14/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 210 fans permalink
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Fowler's out-of-context quote gave racists some kind of creepy "rationale" for continuing (and spreading) their racism. And it gave Clinton the fodder she needed to escalate the racism and also to blame our national problems on smart people. I hope Fowler is proud of herself.

When I minored in Journalism (so long ago that it was considered a capital "J" PROFESSION), we were constantly being lectured about journalistic ethics. We were always being given hypothetical problems with ambiguity re the ethics, and debating the pros and cons and (more important) the effects of our stories on a trusting public. We were always being reminded of the importance of context .

For an editor on Huffpost to have brought in an amateur/da­bbler/seek­er-of -15- minutes- of- fame and to give her that much power to destroy a candidate is shameful. Perhaps there was some attempt to remedy the damage she caused, but if there was I didn't see it....all I saw was a defense of Fowler. And, of course, Huffpost does so much good, that their role in the overall political scene is an honorable one. Nevertheless, to turn a dabbler loose in a situation like this was a monstrous mistake.

And, it turns out, she is still writing here on Hufpost.

Maybe she didn't INTEND to do so much harm to a candidate she claims to support, but things are what they are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 AM on 05/14/2008

I just had to respond to your comment re:Supreme Court and torture. It made be politically incorrect and I may be tossed off the DNC mailing list, but honey, if I could prevent another 3000 people from being incinerated, I'd waterboard a terrorist in a heartbeat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 05/15/2008

It is much ado about nothing, really. The ISSUE was exploded by the CLINTONS and Hillary's campaign for political advantage! and it worked because American people are stupid... really! The American people are the same people who voted for Bush after all twice (first time he did not win, everybody knows!). The Clintons used a right-wing Republican tactic against Obama and it worked!
Everybody understands what Obama said and wanted to say but they twist it so much that the word "bitter" became ...criminal. Give me a break! I am bitter about those that pretend to be bitter after listening to Obama's statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 05/14/2008
- 57basque I'm a Fan of 57basque 84 fans permalink
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Right On Common-sen­se-please. Its a total non issue. If the MEDIA-RIGHT-STORM doesn't change its ways about talking about things that can help this land, We the People Are Going to Take It Over. We can do it with this webnet tool. Just a matter of pushing buttons from here on out. Every connection made on line is another inch forward.

Just last Month I heard a Hug Downs recording about how they knew in the 30'S that we can make bio-diesel fuel from hemp. We could cut down on some crime by making both male and female hemp legal here. We can also make cloths and plastic out of it too. Just a few things I want to see talked about on the TV.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 AM on 05/14/2008
- Zankee I'm a Fan of Zankee 2 fans permalink

I agree that the "webnet tool" is a powerful instrumemt in the right hands.., but, it can't "protect" me when "words" fail, and.., I can't "throw" as good as I used too....

Also, if the "net" is the more powerful weapon.., the Government would be moving to suppress and "outlaw" it's use.., they aren't.., are they...????

Prudence dictates to have a "Plan B"(desperation), just in case "Plan A"(reasoning) fails.., if you know what I mean....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/16/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 210 fans permalink
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Did anybody seriously think that Hillary WOULDN'T exploit an issue like the bogus "elitism" thing NOBODY is more "elitist" than the Clintons, with their sucking up to corporate power and their frolics with the Renaissance Weekenders (while Obama was busy organizing the steelworkers in Chicago who were disemployed by the Clintons' very own treachery) but people who don't have the time or energy to follow the issues probably wouldn't even realize this. They are ripe for the picking by somebody willing to exploit their sad situation.

She has driven her wedge into the most despicable of places...the one that requires her to exploit the feelings of poor people that life has passed them by and the sense that others "look down" on them. She could have put the blame for WVA's sad condition (near the bottom of the list on every measure of quality of life) where it belonged , but she didn't. Instead of blaming her corporate pals and HER NAFTA for shipping the good jobs overseas, she managed to convince these people that Obama supporters regard them as inferiors. And they responded by making false pride into an issue more important to them (and, worse, more important to their families' futures) than quality of life. It can't be denied that she deliberately tapped a vein of racism to boot.

No wonder she got the cold shoulder on the senate floor yesterday

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 05/14/2008
- mjc I'm a Fan of mjc 9 fans permalink

No, you give the Clintons and their supporters a break. Clinton didn't authorize, help pay for, or engage Fowler in her taping of the conversation with Obama supporters in San Francisco. Once it hit YouTube it was "exploded", not by the Clintons but simply because it was such revealing stuff about Barack Obama. Hell yes he's a snob. His mother did have some rough times economically but Obama himself didn't suffer. Mom took care of everything. He won scholarships into various schools so the money for education wasn't a problem. Think because of the sort of schools he went to as a child and later Harvard, all with quite elitist comrades, well-off, and with powerful parents and later powerful alumni, Obama doesn't to feel the pain of the lower class, the folks who live paycheck to paycheck, and he does seem to love being one of the powerful, wealthy dudes he went to school with. It's not that he is not black enough; it's that he is not (and has never been in his own mind) poor enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 05/18/2008

His statements from 2004 also provide some insight into "bitter-gate":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M
(2004 interview)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 AM on 05/14/2008
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Excellent. This video shows how in touch he really is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 AM on 05/14/2008

Yet the voters don't share your view.

hm .. interesting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 AM on 05/14/2008
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The over-used excuse that Mr. Obama's words were taken "out of context" is pure nonsense. The context was -- he was flapping his gums. The words were his and WORDS MATTER. The junior Senator either said the words and meant them -- or said the words and was lying. Whatever the case, there is no "context" that changes the basic meaning of Mr. Obama's words, nor do his words mean something different based on the fact that he said the totally opposite thing a few hours earlier.

Mr. Obama is a flawed candidate . . . like all candidates. It's time to put an end to the daily stream of articles that seek to explain away this politician's mistakes and make him the perfect person who can do no wrong. He is not perfect. He's flawed in many, many ways. It ultimately doesn't help Mr. Obama to have these ridiculous articles written that attempt to justify or erase his errors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 05/14/2008
- AdamX I'm a Fan of AdamX 12 fans permalink

Overused excuse? The FACT is that they were taken COMPLETELY out of context. The fact that you cannot see that or admit that is irrelevant. Aw heck - you probably think Hillary is good!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 AM on 05/14/2008

Yes, he *was* taken out of context. And here's the proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 05/14/2008
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First you ridicule the excuse, put down the man, and then tell people they are only hurting him by writing posts defending him against people like you who make an issue about a man who was obviously trying to empathize and not put anybody down. It really is sad that you think that people can't see that you are being disingenuous. Giving advice to people about a candidate you care nothing about is disingenuous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 05/14/2008
- DrDemon I'm a Fan of DrDemon 7 fans permalink
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Well of course he's flawed... He's not GOD!

However, the difference is Obama is just "NOT AS FLAWED" as the other two so-called "EXPERIENCED" candidates!

Oh, just so you know; you are flawed as well!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 05/14/2008

Obama is the most gifted political candidate since Abraham Lincoln! You are the one who is deeply flawed and ... racist!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 05/14/2008
- ethancorso I'm a Fan of ethancorso 238 fans permalink
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If poor, rural, uneducated whites are 'average Americans', then what is everybody else?

These people have been lead to believe that they are the beating heart of the nation, the truest expression of foundational American values. Politicians enforce this myth of 'superior Americaness' because as long as enough people believe that they are the paradigm of the American ideal, the longer they will ignore the fact that it is those very same politicians that have decimated their livelihoods. Hence the desire to perpetuate past failures.

In many ways this is similar to the victim-redeemer complex common to organized religion. The title of 'Greatest Patriot' is a form of government issued salvation, your only reward for having to endure the systematic and willful destruction of your way of life.

Is your financial situation tenuous, at best? Do you feel that the country has been moving in the wrong direction? Have your elected representatives done little or nothing to substantively improve your chances of prosperity, long term wellness, or happiness? Then congratulations -- regardless of your race, gender, sexuality, culture, faith, or location -- you're an average American.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 05/14/2008
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Well written. If more "average" Americans had your talent and intellect, politicians might actually have to address substantive issues, instead of resorting to transparent political stunts like sucking down suds with the boys at the local tavern or cobbling together some third-party pedigree to the characters in a Courier and Ives or Rockwell painting.

But the term "average" does not apply to you. Though you share the same struggles, face the same issues and are effected by the same political decisions (or lack thereof), you possess the ability to question, analyze, critically examine and articulate your understanding of the concepts. Put another way, you are the "informed and concerned electorate" that Thomas Jefferson challenged us, as a nation, to be. And in so doing, you thwart the manipulation of the democratic process by the misleading statements of politicians and the spin of the media.

"I have sworn on the sacred alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man," wrote Jefferson in a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush. Jefferson was no average American, but he shared in the fate of everyone else. He shaped our concept of liberty and stand as a testament to the power of of words - words that would one day undo the institution of slavery that he practiced, but also predicted the end of slavery as being inevitable.

Words are a weapon that no sword can cleave, and no shield can resist. Use them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 AM on 05/14/2008

Glad to see someone invoking Jefferson: Gosh, what did he have to say about the 2nd amendment that Obama seems to think so malleable?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).

The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."
--Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. ME 9:341

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson, Letter to his nephew Peter Carr, August 19, 1785.

"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution with (his note added), 1776. Papers, 1:353

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 05/14/2008

In most states, you now have to have a license to legally own guns. It isn't that hard to get a license, unless of course you are a felon. They issue the card to people after a background check. Convicted felons can't buy a gun legally. And even with the card, which you have to show when purchasing, you still have to wait for 24 to 48 hours before you can pick up what you purchased. I suppose the wait is to verify your card, but also to make sure a person doesn't just come in and buy a gun in a fit of anger to shoot someone. Some areas of the country are actually starting to encourage people to get concealed weapon permits. They are saying that the stats show that criminals are much less likely to commit crimes if the people are armed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 AM on 05/14/2008

Great. Not only will the constitution continue to be trampled, but Barack thinks that it ought to apply differently depending on where you live in the country. I guess the fact that it's the Contitution of the United States of America slipped past him. If not, he's pandering.... but we all know that he's way above that, so it must be a mistake.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 05/13/2008
- condew I'm a Fan of condew 8 fans permalink

Or mabe he's saying this a matter to be left to state and local governments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 05/14/2008
- Darnamell I'm a Fan of Darnamell 5 fans permalink

I now live in a big city and wouldn't trust 99% of the residents of Las Vegas with a firearm.

I have also lived in small farm town Illinois where everyone has a shotgun or at least a .22 and no one even thinks of it.

That said, I have also lived in Texas where you learn a healthy fear of cutting off your fellow drivers in traffic. In Oklahoma, they have gun racks but are mostly pleasant and wave to you despite - or because - they are within arm-reach of an arsenal.

If you don't get what Obama is saying about this, you truly don't understand the variety of communities in America.

Or you are just trying to twist words to conform to whatever attack memo you just received in your inbox.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 AM on 05/14/2008
- Tazz I'm a Fan of Tazz permalink

It doesn't matter the various communities in America, they are all protected by the Constitution.

The fact that he wants to take that right from law abiding citizens is a major concern.

Of course, even within your post you note that having a gun close by helps to keep things civil...lol

So, did you happen to notice the difference between the two Virginia shootings?

The school with a gun free zone lost 32 students with 17 others injured with wounds, ending over two hours later with the shooter's suicide.

The school without a gun free zone lost 3 students and 3 injured, with the end result of disarming the shooter.

I would rather make my own choice about guns.......and only people who have been in real danger understand how long a number 911 is.

Nevermind response times.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 AM on 05/14/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

George W. Obama.
All things to all people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 05/13/2008
- condew I'm a Fan of condew 8 fans permalink

That's about as cynical as it gets.

I think you are off base. Obama's race speech showed he is a man who listens to others. He really seems to try to understand all the facets of a problem. George Bush is "the deceider"; and demonstrates his contempt for every opinion not his own; for George Bush there are no experts and there is no science if he says so.

I think Obama and Bush are polar opposites, and that is Obama's appeal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 AM on 05/14/2008
- condew I'm a Fan of condew 8 fans permalink

All those negative comments that stick around have one thing in common -- a press that doesn't give a fig for democracy. They just have their fun seeing how they can twist a candidate's words, and the hell with good government. That's how a handful of "journalists" destroyed Gore.

The "Dean Scream" and Obama's Wright problem were nearly identical; both were short video clips taken out of context and played over and over. Such events can happen any time, but it is no mystery how or why.

The next time a journalist pulls this crap, we need to end his or her career.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 05/13/2008

Bull.
I don't care what he said before he called people of small town america (people like myself) bitter &we cling to guns, religion, &bigotry. My family is in hard times & I really don't like it when snobby politicans knock people such as myself & my family. Obama will never get my vote.Ever. I choose to cling to Clinton .. Or Ralph Nader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 PM on 05/13/2008

Actually he never mentioned clinging to bigotry, was that a Fruedian slip self-identifier?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 05/13/2008

"Cling to guns, religion, &antipathy towards people WHO ARE NOT LIKE THEM"

Thats bigotry.

You assume I am a bigot because I do not share the same political view as you. Often on this website obamabots are hostile towards Clinton supporters. Obamabots must be programmed with bigotry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 05/13/2008

He was knocking you? I always interpreted his comment as defending small town America. He was simply saying that you are hurting out there and that you are strongly influenced by your cultural values and habits (religion, guns etc). That those values influence your votes.

You are bitter because you are being screwed by the big guys and you sometimes blame your situation on people that "the big guys" (corporations, government run by lobbyists....) tell you to blame. They use your cultural values to make you blame anyone but them for your problems.

I truly believe Obama was defending you, not attacking you. Food for thought.

Oh, and you may choose to cling to Clinton, but she doesn't give a damn about you or what is ailing you. She is much richer and elitist that Obama is. That is a fact. But she is white. I hope Obama's skin color isn't influencing your feelings about him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 05/13/2008

Gee, it sounds like he wasn't talking about you then. If he wasn't talking about you then why are you so defensive?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 05/13/2008

Im sorry but if your not bitter your not paying attention.And when so many people havent voted for a democrat because they are afraid we will take away their guns or they are more concerened with the unborn while millions of american kids are living in poverty ,or when the republicans get people out to vote against gays then if people like that are having hard times they have only themselves to blame.They were used in a con game to vote on issues that dont affect their lives the way good schools and universal healthcare would.And just imagine if the snobby al gore or john kerry had won how different things might be.I hope we get a democrate in office whether it is cilinton or obama we need to take care of our own people instead of the oil companies and corporations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 PM on 05/13/2008

You sound angry and bitter to me.

The guy ( BO) was raised by a single mother on food stamps for crying out loud. If anything his life should be inspirational to people not only in the US but around the world.

Don't have selective hearing, listen to his entire argument.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 05/13/2008
- northcan I'm a Fan of northcan 9 fans permalink

I've just finished reading Obama's supporters, staff, volunteers where threatened, called names, screamed at with obscenities ...all to do with Obama's race. Thanks, Hillary and Bill Clinton. Divide and Conquer. Your style. Your most comfortable position is a pig pen and you've shown from the beginning that 'race' matters to you. What you do to your voters is nothing less than 'hate' speech. But you are above the law with that too. You buy Latinos, Black, whatever needed.

You have angered your racist 'white' blue collar supporters, to go a step further for their lovely Queen of mean. Jeremiah Wright...is right. You know it, the world knows it. If you weren't part of the underground you would never had been president or first lady. I am ashamed of you. Go home. Screw W. Virginia. Probably a KKK state. I wouldn't campaign there either.

I'm a white woman, and I'm so ashamed of the Clinton's, that dysfunctional daughter, their dysfunctional staff, supporters and ideals. The world does nothing less than laugh at these two con jobs, from hillbilly land. they are not respected one bit all over the world. Nothing more than a cartoon character.
t

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 05/13/2008

Yeah totally, It was soooo the clintons who forced people into their views on race. TOTALLY. I am sure the clintons told those bitter small town folks how to feel but hey I am sure they cling to their racist views because of their economic situation. Obama would understand.

Obama can not win the white house without those "racist white blue collar" voters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 PM on 05/13/2008

Have you bothered to look at the rest of the excerpt, or are you stuck on the bitter part?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 AM on 05/14/2008
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Bill Clinton won it without it you. What did you call yourself, "racist white blue collar"? He won it without you. You are treating Obama much how you treated Bill in his first race for the white house. Obama is much more popular than Clinton was then.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 05/14/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
photo

It does seem like Hillary is going to pretend to take the high road while she sends Bill out there to sling mud. It's pretty sad, and it's going to look even sadder in a few years.
But once she's gone, I really think the democratic party and it's voters will pull together and get over it.
And I feel a bit sorry for Chelsea. I mean, what else is she supposed to do?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 05/13/2008

For all the women that say they will vote for McCain if Hillary is not the nominee are either men or die hard republicans.

Remember the pro life vs pro issue will be decided this election cycle. McCain will put young judges in the SC who will ensure that Roe vs Wade is overturned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 05/13/2008
- Tazz I'm a Fan of Tazz permalink

That fight is already over when Dubya won in 2000.

They already have the amount needed to overturn and chip away at Roe.

Remember the discussion about Alito's first day to work and the first abortion case heard by the Supreme Court in five years?

Nevermind the fact, that the religious right and the bombers have run abortion Drs out of the counties and states that don't want it....last century.

Besides haven't you guys all insulted Hillary voters as being old? Psst....they don't need abortions and know the fight is over on that topic. You guys have to find another wedge issue to try and win them back....lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 AM on 05/14/2008
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