Sam Stein

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Sam Stein

The Huffington Post

Clinton Camp Pushes Ahead With 2210 Argument

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May 14, 2008 02:28 PM


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About Sam Stein

Sam Stein is a Political Reporter at the Huffington Post, based in Washington, D.C. Previously he has worked for Newsweek magazine, the New York Daily News and the investigative journalism group Center for Public Integrity. He has a masters from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and is a graduate of Dartmouth College. Sam can be reached at stein@huffingtonpost.com.


On a conference call with reporters on Wednesday, Sen. Hillary Clinton's chief spokesman Howard Wolfson acknowledged that the campaign had recalibrated the metric by which they are using to decide the primary race.

Arguing that the nomination should be determined by which candidate had won 2210 delegates as opposed to 2025 -- the latter number does not include delegates from Florida and Michigan -- Wolfson argued that overwhelming turnout in those two states merited a reconsideration.

"I think there was every expectation throughout this process that we would not have a significant outpouring of support for the Democratic Party from Michigan and Florida in their primaries," he said. "I think that the political world was shocked by the fact that so many people were coming out despite [the fact that they weren't sanctioned]."

Turnout in those states were indeed historic. But the Clinton campaign wasn't always making the case that Michigan and Florida's delegates should be brought into consideration when crafting a primary finish line. Weeks after those two states ran their elections, in fact, surrogates for the New York Democrat were still citing 2025 delegates as the decisive number.

Take for instance, these three quotes, turned up by Mark Nicholas at Political Base:

February 14: "The goal of both campaigns is to get 2,025 delegates. That could take into the summer for either campaign," said Clinton spokesman Doug Hattaway. "Both campaigns are having to keep forward deploying resources as the process keeps moving."


February 14: "Neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of superdelegates," said Howard Wolfson, Mrs. Clinton's press secretary. "No one is going to get to 2,025 [the number needed for nomination] without the superdelegates."

February 17: "Let's put this a little bit in perspective. There are about 40 delegates separating Senator Obama from Senator Clinton, about 1 percent of the overall number. That's essentially a tie. None of the candidates--neither of the candidates will get to the number needed to secure the nomination, 2,025, without the support of superdelegates."

As the reporter who quizzed Wolfson on his methodology noted, if the Clinton campaign was persuaded by the Michigan and Florida turnout to change the winning delegate total from 2025 to 2210, why did they continue using 2025 weeks after those two states voted?

Wolfson said that the Senator and her aides had long argued for the inclusion of Florida and Michigan results, and added that the Clinton campaign had begun using 2210 only after the "element of challenge" to the DNC's sanctioning of those two state's primaries had come into play. The Rules and Bylaws Committee will meet on May 31 to weigh in on the fate of those two states.

"We are on the side of maximum participation we are on the side of letting any vote count," he said.

Indeed, it was around May 5 when the Clinton campaign began using the 2210 metric. Geoff Garin, on a conference call with reporters, called the figure the "standard" by which the nominee would be decided.

And yet, lost in the debate is whether or not raising the number would make any difference. As noted by a diarist on MyDD, if Obama hits 2025 before the Rules and Bylaws Committee meets, 2210 won't make much, if any, difference.

Let's look at how Obama got to 2025. He needs 159 more delegates... let's say he gets 60 from OR/KY/WV (a pretty achievable goal) and 25 from add ons (again low balling his likely total), and 74 superdelegate commitments after he clinches the pledged delegate lead.

So he's at 2025, the rules committee meets, and says FL and MI counts in full. He's doomed, right? Wrong. Remember, Obama is going to get some of those delegates. Michigan's recent plan - not the Obama camp's plan mind you, but Michigan's - would give him 59 delegates. In Florida, he earned 67 delegates. So immediately he'd be at 2151. He also has 6 superdelegate commitments from those states (5 from MI, one from FL), so he's be at 2157. Moreover, the elections aren't over. Puerto Rico, Montana, and South Dakota would still vote. Of those 86 delegates, Obama would receive close to 40. That gets him to 2197.

So with conservative assumptions, even with MI and FL counted in full, Obama would be within [13] delegates of the nomination with 164 superdelegates left to commit (remember the number is higher because I'm giving FL and MI their superdelegates).

 
 

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So, why is Clinton running?

What's the affirmative analysis using 2210 for Clinton to win the nomination? Can anyone point me to a link?

Does anyone know if there's a delegate calculator around with 2210 as its basis instead of 2026?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 PM on 05/20/2008

With apologies to Monty Python:

===

Hillary's candidacy is no more! It has ceased to be!

It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace!

Its metabolic processes are now 'istory!

It's off the twig!

It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-CANDIDACY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 05/17/2008

PARANOID PREDICTION # 347 :::

THE (NEOCON REPUBLICAN) FIX IS ALREADY IN PLACE TO DENY OBAMA THE NOMINATION --

HOWARD DEAN HAS BEEN ROBOTICALLY REPEATING "WE WILL FOLLOW THE RULES" EVERY TIME HE'S ASKED ABOUT THE MAY 31 RULES MEETING OR FLORIDA & MICHIGAN -- IT WILL BE THE DNC'S "EXCUSE" TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR DISENFRANCHISING THEM FROM GETTING THEIR COUNTRY BACK --

CORRUPT FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN REPUBLICANS ENGINEERED AND EXECUTED THIS FIASCO WHICH HILLARY AGREED TO BEFORE SHE CONVENIENTLY DECIDED SHE DIDN'T --

HILLARY KNOWS THIS ( "I WILL STAY IN THIS RACE UNTIL THERE IS A NOMINEE..." ) -- SHE'S PULLED EVERY DIRTY STUNT IN KARL ROVE'S PLAYBOOK -- HER (AND BILL'S FORMER) TOP DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVE, HAROLD ICKES, WROTE THE RULEBOOK THAT THE DNC COMMITTEE IS GOING TO FINAGLE AND "INTERPRET" --

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 AM on 05/17/2008

Sam--

Give it a rest. We all know Hillary will NOT be the nominee.

Why keep bashing her??

You're starting to sound irrational with your prolific anti-Hillary articles.

Which in turn bring out the most vitriloic Obama supporters bashing the Clintons.

Which in turn angers Hillary supporters Obama NEEDS in November.

You are not doing Obama any favors.

If you want to help Obama, start writing anti-McCain pieces.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 05/17/2008

Please stop your misogynist lynching of Hillary- it is beneath the intelligence and compassion of a true progressive.

Regarding the support Hillary received in WV - she beat Obama 2-1 and everyone (with the MSM in the lead) discounts the win as a result of racism -meanwhile 95% black voter support for Obama in NC/SC etc¦ is what?
And don't give me that bs about whites hate Obama and are racists for voting against a black man while the 'black' vote is just supporting their candidate.

The fact is Obama has a problem with conservative white voters and the Democrat Party with their caucus/%delegates primary system have given the black voters an unwarranted advantage in choosing our Decocratic Primary Candidate. Unlike the Democrat Primary the Majority of America is not Progressive/Liberal and the black vote will be diluted in the more conservative General Election.
The Axelrod/Obama campaign is clever and ruthless so it may yet win against McCain - but if Obama vs McCentrist-McCain turns out to be a race to win the 'Reagan Democrat' guess who will win that one?

I would add that it troubles me greatly that the MSM that helped sell the bush/Cheney/neocon abuse of 9-11 and created the nightmare of present day America is so supportive of Obama. Why? I can assure you it's not because they want what is best for America. Be wary of the MSM bearing gifts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 05/16/2008

Here is the solution to the Michigan/Florida primary issue that the DNC should consider on 5/31/08.

1 - The DNC should mandate that the appropriate state party bosses, those intimately involved in creating this mess, lose their superdelegate status, resign from their state party leadership positions and be ineligible for state leadership positions until after the 2012 elections. This will result in a reasonable deterrent to having people in those positions do something like this in the future.
2 - Count Florida as voted, count Michigan as voted giving credit to Obama for uncommitted votes and seat delegates accordingly.
3 - Instruct uncommitted superdelegates to lend no weight to the popular vote of these 2 states as it is "tainted" due to the lack of campaigning in those states. This offsets the high likelihood that the "unknown Obama" would have closed the gap on the "recognizable name" candidate had campaigning occurred back in January.
This seats the delegates appropriately, recognizes the efforts of the voters, and yet maintains the integrity of the primary process by penalizing the people responsible for violating DNC rules

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 05/15/2008

Howard Dean was on Leno tonight and he said Michigan and Florida will be seated at the convention in a way that is fair to both candidates and to the other 48 states that abided by the rules. He said the compromise would not please everyone but it was "fair". He did not give any details on the compromise itself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 AM on 05/15/2008

The repubs punished FL and MI by only giving them 1/2 vote for each delegate. Let the democrats to the same thing. Every body gets what they deserve and the states are not given equal status to the states that followed the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 05/15/2008

Its a useless argument. The Math still doesn't work out for her. If I was Obama, I would let have 2210 delegates. This is how:

Hillary has 1720 total delegates right now.

Out of remaining 189 pledge delegates, with her blow-out victories in Kentucky (60-40) and Puerto Rico (70-30) and non-blowout losses in Oregon (55-45), South Dakota (53-47), and Montana (53-47) will land her 106 more delegates, giving her total of 1826.

There are 313 delegates available in FL and MI. Lets generously give her 55% of those, bringing up her total to 1998.

Out of MI and FL unseated Super Delegates she has 15 comitted to her at this time. Bringing her total to 2013.

She would be 197 Super Delegates short.

As of now there are 229 Uncommitted Supers in seated delegates and 34 uncommitted in FL and MI, bring the total to 263.

So she would still need 75% of the Super Delegates.

She can't get them.

Obama is dominating her in Add-Ons and there are other 30-40 add-ons coming and they are from States that Obama generally dominates. There are uncomitted delegates in States like Louisiana and Georgia and Maryland, States that Obama carried overwhelmingly. Those guys are not waiting to make up their mind. They are waiting to find the right time to bring this to close so they don't leave the impression they short circuited Hillary Clinton's campagin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 05/14/2008

So lets get this straight Clinton wants "everyone's vote to count" but then she says to Brian Williams today that "the role of the super delegates and pledge delegates for that matter is to make up their own mind" - what a total hypocrite.

Really, why can't you Clintonistas see what a total hypocrite she is - she doesn't care about the VOTE - she wants the supers to over turn the vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 05/14/2008

Moving the goalposts again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 05/14/2008

Actually, she is pushing for 2400, on the argument that Obama voters only count for 3/5.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 05/14/2008


She's keeping her powder dry; soon as Obama gets close to 2400, she'll decree that caucus states delegates are worth 1/2 primary states delegates; next, it'll be the fate of small states delegates who are worth 1/2 large states delegates.

It's Charlie Brown, Lucie and the football, all over again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 AM on 05/17/2008

Ouch !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 05/15/2008

***Wipes Coffee From Screen***
Hilarious!!
But wait, there could be some new convoluted math here that could help Obama even at this brilliant measure!! Follow me here: As I calculate my own umm, mixed "chocolate/vanilla" value, I come up with 4/5 of 1 vote. One half of a chocolate vote being 3/10 and one half of a vanilla vote being 5/10. Added together you get 8/10 or 4/5 of 1 vote.
So now let's call everyone who voted and ask them their racial composition and calculate that 4/5 vote into the...mix.
I'm sure that given an adequate calculation and a few minutes to crunch the numbers, and because they're that good, Obama's "Super-Geeks-At-Math" Campaign staff could determine from the remaining contests how many people (3/5, 4/5 & full votes) would be needed to beat yet another ludicrous measure presented by the Clinton (I thought it was the HS Junior Class Presidential) Campaign.
Wow, it's gonna take a while to get my tongue outta my cheek!
;-P

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 AM on 05/15/2008

terribly sad, but funny, the best kind of humor.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 05/14/2008

That was an Obama supporter....you guys suck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 05/14/2008

HA!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 PM on 05/14/2008

The reason turnout in FL was so high had absolutely nothing to do with Hillary Clinton, or any other primary candidate. Amendment One, a ballot measure to slow property tax increases was the reason so many came out to vote. But like most other rants from the Hillary camp, truth has nothing to do with their assertions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 05/14/2008

1.7 million Floridians voted but there are 4.2 million registered voters - the turn out would have been a lot higher if people thought the vote was going to count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 05/14/2008

The candidacy of Senator Clinton will ultimately be judged to be an overall setback for women. She started out with the image of competency and smarts. I wondered what it would be like to have a woman run things for a while. I wondered if the skill sets that are indigenous to a woman's experience could provide special insights in problem solving.
But that was then.
Now after seeing her burn through more money than she could raise ("women and those damn credit cards").
Failure to settle on a single campaign message (except: "don't vote for the black guy 'cause their scary").
Failure to understand and follow gentleman's agreements and protocol (Fla/ Mich Party Agreement). Failure to be the strong example of female leadership (cat-fights and upheaval in her campaign). Failure to expect no favors or handouts (New Hampshire tears)
Even stooping to sympathy fishing ("let her get a couple of wins in WV and Kent and she'll drop out on her terms" - T. McAuliffe last week).
I believe that she may be delusional...when I see her now, I think more Glenn Close than Eleanor Roosevelt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 05/14/2008

Clinton is a woman, not women. She represents only her self and her own ambitions.

The US will have a woman president soon. It just will never be Hillary Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 05/14/2008

I heard Hillary speak today on tv and she has this arrogance about her as if she is controlling the DNC and the voting public - and nobody can make a move without her consent - she want us to "take a deep breath" she says - she has bonded with her voters - what does she think the voters are her little sheep - who does she think she is - women don't have to be passified and cuddled - if she's such a fighter and so tough, why do we have to treat her as if she some little sensitive girly girl needing a soft pillow - she looks a little crazy to me -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 PM on 05/14/2008

I think Hillary may just be keeping the 2210 option open to give herself time to revamp her image before withdrawing from the race. At least that's the 'positive option' scenario I'm willing to entertain until she disproves it. Again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 PM on 05/14/2008

IMPOSSIBLE! Nothing to revamp. May be if she gets a labadomy.
She is the same as Rove, Bush, etc.
Same old, same old.

RING IN THE NEW!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 AM on 05/15/2008

Hillary, You've had your fun and games. It's time to put your guns down and come out with your hands up. You're completely surrounded and your ugly, race-baiting, fearimongering campaign is over. It's time to come out of your bunker and surrender.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 05/14/2008

The lady is obsessed with power and will do anything and everything to try to get things to her advantage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:35 PM on 05/14/2008

She said the same thing to Brian Williams and he didn't even try to challenge it. Wimpy. She lies yet again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 05/14/2008

Nobody is listening...

Hey Hillary staffers: the national campaign positions are being filled without you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 05/14/2008

This woman is ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 05/14/2008

The math still doesn't work for her, no matter how you slice it. In fact it makes it exponentially harder for her to reach that number. Insane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 05/14/2008

What is she thinking is going to happen? It makes me afraid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 05/14/2008

That's what I keep asking myself when I hear Hillary and her advisors and supporters saying that stuff - Why are they saying that - what do they mean -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 05/14/2008

It means that Obama has to beef up his secret service detail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 PM on 05/14/2008

2210, is that the year when she's running again?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 05/14/2008

Lol !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 05/14/2008

SNOOZE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 05/14/2008

Once again, let's change the rules for Hillary's benefit, because she's so special.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 05/14/2008

If this were Rugrats, she would be...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 PM on 05/14/2008

The more they try to push on these ridiculous arguments the less relevant they become.
Why does anyone even give em' a microphone???
She agreed to the rules. Sorry Lucy, Charlie Brown aint playin' your little game anymore.
See ya' at the convention.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 05/14/2008