Florida, Michigan cannot save Clinton

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NEDRA PICKLER | May 16, 2008 10:06 PM EST | AP

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Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., walks from her campaign plane on the tarmac in Rapid City, South Dakota Thursday, May 15, 2008. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola)

WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign.

Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little interest in the former first lady's best-case scenario. Her position, part of a formidable comeback challenge, is that all the delegates be seated in accordance with their disputed primaries.

Even if they were, it wouldn't erase Barack Obama's growing lead in delegates.

The Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, a 30-member panel charged with interpreting and enforcing party rules, is to meet May 31 to consider how to handle Michigan and Florida's 368 delegates _ both pledged delegates and superdelegates.

Last year, the panel imposed the harshest punishment it could render against the two states after they scheduled primaries in January, even though they were instructed not to vote until Feb. 5 or later. Michigan and Florida lost all their delegates to the national convention, and all the Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign in the two states, stripping them of all the influence they were trying to build by voting early.

But now there is agreement on all sides that at least some of the delegates should be restored in a gesture of party unity and respect to voters in two general election battlegrounds.

Clinton has been arguing for full reinstatement, which would boost her standing. She won both states, even though they didn't count toward the nomination and neither candidate campaigned in them. Obama even had his name pulled from Michigan's ballot.

The Associated Press interviewed a third of the panel members and several other Democrats involved in the negotiations and found widespread agreement that the states must be punished for stepping out of line. If not, many members say, other states will do the same thing in four years.

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"We certainly want to be fair to both candidates, and we want to be sure that we are fair to the 48 states who abided by the rules," said Democratic National Committee Secretary Alice Germond, a panel member unaligned with either candidate. "We don't want absolute chaos for 2012.

"We want to reach out to Michigan and Florida and seat some group of delegates in some manner, at least most of us do. These are two critical states for the general (election) and the voters of those states who were not the people who caused this awful conundrum to occur deserve our attention and deserve to be a part of our process and deserve to be at the convention," she said.

Just as Democrats across the country have been divided over which candidate would make the better nominee, most of the panel members also bring personal preferences to the table.

Many are long-standing party officials with close ties to the Clintons. The former first lady has 13 members publicly supporting her, including campaign advisers Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy who are working to build her delegate count. Eight are openly aligned with Obama. Nine others are officially undeclared.

"We have to have delegates, and they have to be delegations that reflect the opinions of those two states," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a committee member supporting Clinton. "How we get there is very different because everyone sees these questions of who it helps and who it hurts. I don't think the formulation has been found that will get around the piece at this point." But he said a solution is probably possible among the diverse interests.

Because Obama is in the lead for the nomination, his camp heads into the meeting in a position of strength. It is possible the Illinois senator could clinch the nomination by the time the panel meets if he picks up the pace of superdelegate endorsements in the coming weeks.

But Obama has such a lead that he may be able to afford to be generous and give Clinton most of the delegates. That would help put the issue behind them and help him build goodwill in Michigan and Florida heading into the November election.

Still, some think the fairest solution is to disregard the primary votes and split the delegations evenly between the two candidates. Yvonne Gates, a member of Nevada who said she is keeping her candidate preference private until after the meeting so her decision won't be questioned, said she isn't sure what position she would support at the meeting but that it must be fair to both candidates.

"My definition is a 50-50 split is something that is fair," she said. "It cannot be a situation where you give one candidate more votes than the other. In my opinion that wasn't an election when they didn't have a chance to get out and talk to the people of that community."

It's also possible that any vote that recognizes the Michigan and Florida results would legitimize their elections. Clinton has been arguing that she leads in the popular vote, but that's only when both states are included and it is very slim _ fewer than 5,000 votes out of 34 million cast.

Her accounting also doesn't include some caucus states that favored Obama and where the popular vote wasn't tallied. The measure of winning the nomination is not the popular vote but whoever can get the majority of delegates _ currently 2,026 are needed for the nomination although adding Michigan and Florida back in would change the threshold.

Obama climbed to 1,904 on Friday, according to The Associated Press count. Clinton has 1,719 delegates and is trying to use the popular vote argument to win over more.

Clinton encouraged supporters in an e-mail Friday to sign a message to the DNC asking them to count Michigan and Florida in the May 31 meeting. "I need you to remind them that in the Democratic Party, we count every vote," her e-mail said.

Fourteen of Clinton's Hispanic supporters in Congress sent a letter to the Rules and Bylaws Committee Friday arguing that disregarding the votes cast by Hispanics, 12 percent of the primary vote in Florida, could damage the nominee.

So far, Obama's campaign has not been giving direction publicly or privately to panel members. The Clinton campaign's official position has been full reinstatement, but her advisers acknowledge they are considering an idea before the panel to seat the delegates with half a vote each. Clinton campaign Chairman Terry McAuliffe said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press" that they "certainly might" accept a compromise to seat half the delegates.

If their elections had been held according to party rules, Michigan and Florida would have allocated a total of 313 pledged delegates based on the outcome of the vote.

Using the results of the January elections with no votes for Obama from Michigan, Clinton would get 178 to Obama's 67, with the remainder in Michigan who voted "uncommitted" and giving her a 111-vote advantage. The remainder of the 368 delegates includes those representing the "uncommitted" vote in Michigan and John Edwards in Florida, along with superdelegates.

As of Friday, she was behind 185 delegates, so that would not catch her up even under that unlikely scenario.

The plans before the committee will be more generous to Obama. The Michigan Democratic Party has proposed giving 69 of its 128 delegates to Clinton and 59 to Obama, an advantage of 10 delegates for Clinton.

A proposal from Florida would halve its 185 delegates. From that, Clinton would get 52.5 and Obama 33.5, a 19-delegate advantage for Clinton.

"I think it's a reasonable solution to the problem that was created, and my hope is that we'll be able to get past this and move on," said Allan Katz, an Obama supporter who serves on the panel but won't be able to vote on any Florida solution because he is from the state.

The committee is not bound to select the proposals offered and has authority to reinstate any number of delegates and divide them in any way.

An open question is how to handle the other type of delegates each state lost _ the superdelegates who are party leaders not bound by the outcome of the vote and are free to support whatever candidate they personally choose. Michigan has 29 superdelegates, and Florida 26. A total of nine have declared for Obama, 15 for Clinton and the rest are undeclared.

___

On the Net:

Democratic National Committee: http://www.democrats.org

WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign. Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little ...
WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign. Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little ...
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- mortrefuge I'm a Fan of mortrefuge 12 fans permalink

Hillary has lost. She may have been deluding herself into thinking she had a chance after she lost 12 states in a row after Super Tuesday but the simple fact is that there was no way for her to win. That's why she tried to change the rules regarding Michigan and Florida. And because she was deluded she has deluded her followers into believing she still had (and has???!!!) a decent shot at winning. All the while making as her main case that Obama is unelectable (how many different ways can she make this argument). She has derided Obama from the beginning as offering false hope. But, in reality, who was the one offering false hope to her supporters and donors?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 PM on 05/16/2008
- Binx101 I'm a Fan of Binx101 30 fans permalink
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I have not subscribed to the belief that Hillary has been driving this delusion. It is her political machine. The corrupt dinosaurs of the Democratic party that had only one last hope - Hillary, since she is a product of their efforts, fund-raising and graft.

It is my contention that she is now trying to preserve her Senate seat, because there is significant evidence that if challenged - she will not be able to retain it. Remember - Hillary is from the same political machine that promoted Spitzer. That's the Geraldine Ferraro connection. The bowels of political corruption. There is a new Democratic Party emerging from this wreckage.

Binx101
The Almost Daily Binx
http://binx101.wordpress.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 05/16/2008
- verlaine I'm a Fan of verlaine 4 fans permalink

Hillary Clinton, Move away from the uncommitted superdelegates, Put your guns down and Come out with your hands up, Now!! You're completely surrounded and it's time to turn yourself in. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say, can and will be used against you if Obama loses to McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 05/16/2008
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If only we could take her into custody and hold her accountable for all of the damage her ego has caused.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 05/16/2008
- jrterrier I'm a Fan of jrterrier 5 fans permalink

it's not hillary that should concern you. it's her supporters, who continue to believe that she would make the better president and that the hatred obama and his supporters have thrown our way is a measure of the man, ok, sweetie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 PM on 05/16/2008
- rasil I'm a Fan of rasil 2 fans permalink

This is the best blog that I have read yet. I laughed my tail off and am still laughing. Much truth here. You made my day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 05/16/2008
- huffy2001 I'm a Fan of huffy2001 50 fans permalink
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Bullshit. If, no when, Obama loses, it's all on him. You guys want to blame her for everything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 05/16/2008
- ntmessage I'm a Fan of ntmessage 35 fans permalink

So just seat them if they do not matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 05/16/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Because if their punishment doesn't stand, the 2012 primary season will be chaos.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 PM on 05/16/2008
- ntmessage I'm a Fan of ntmessage 35 fans permalink

You cannot make up punishments after the fact, which is what the DNC did. In addition, the punishment my friend, was disenfranchisement a violation of democracy.

That is what is causing chaos my friend. Not the sequence of states holding their stupid primaries. It is obvious to all without a dog in the race.

All Votes must count. None of this ½ vote per person or whatever stupid made up thing the DNC comes up with. I cannot believe people are saying these things with a straight face. This is what is killing our chances. FL and MI are 16% of the EVs needed to win.

Just cut off your nose to spite your face. Great and typical from the DNC. So what if they cannot rig the next election to their liking. Big Deal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 05/16/2008
- kdogg I'm a Fan of kdogg 2 fans permalink

the whole situation sucks. you can't just seat the states because even though hillary couldn't win both elections (espacially mich.) are skewed. plenty of people who might have voted didn't vote because they where told that their votes didn't matter and obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in mich. on the other hand its not the residents of these states fault that their primaries got moved up. they had no control over that and to just throw their votes out seems silly. what should happen is the sd's from these states should not be seated and obama should receive the undecided votes from mich and the rest of the pledged delegates should be sat based on the votes. obama still keep his lead, the residents would have their votes counted to an extent so that they don't feel disenfranchised, and the real culprit get punished for breaking the rules. i agree it is a flawed plan buts its better then doing nothing and the results that the rest of the country came up with by following the rules would not be over turned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 05/16/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Many Democrats in Michigan, knowing that their vote in the Democratic primary wouldn't count, instead participated in the Republican primary instead, presumably to vote against someone, but at least there their vote would count for something.

When talk of a revote came up, a main reason Obama opposed it was because those voters wouldn't be able to participate in the revote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 05/16/2008

true kdogg

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 PM on 05/16/2008

True that the situation sucks but why give Hillary the votes in MI and give Obama he undecided? People knew that this was a beauty contest so to speak and a lot of them did not vote. There are many they voted for Hillary because it was not another democrat on the ballot. So they should split the delegates between them. I know that she is trying to anything to get more delegates but it's not there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 05/16/2008
- verlaine I'm a Fan of verlaine 4 fans permalink

Hillary's campaign is pining for the fjords like the Norwegian blue in Monty Python's Dead Parrot sketch.

Hillary supporters need to suck it up. Her campaign is kaput, over, finis, dead, ceased to exist, gone to meet its maker.

Your candidate lost, so deal with it. Stop trying to push Hillary down our throats as a VP candidate. Hillary and her staff have treated Obama like a dog. She has to pay a price for her dirty campaign tactics and must not be rewarded. Obama will win without Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 05/16/2008

NO NO NO. This is a split decision. Hillary still has half of he vote. That's not what most people call losing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 05/16/2008

Well...I think it's preety simple.

If Hillary "still has half of the vote"...ca­n she win the nomination ???

NO !

Then; she LOST !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 05/16/2008
- kdogg I'm a Fan of kdogg 2 fans permalink

no it is not a split vote. obama has more delegates. by a fairly large margin. give it up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 05/16/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 47 fans permalink

Don't be silly. It's not close. She's done with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 05/16/2008
- Thabit I'm a Fan of Thabit 15 fans permalink

Stick in a fork hmm yep shes done

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 05/16/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Not quite half. And in November, not quite half the vote gets you no electoral votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 05/16/2008
- rigormrtis I'm a Fan of rigormrtis 13 fans permalink
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You left out:

"Singing with the choir invisible".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 05/16/2008
- bentenrai I'm a Fan of bentenrai 3 fans permalink

Add "entre quatre planches"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 05/16/2008
- noneIn2008 I'm a Fan of noneIn2008 27 fans permalink

She is fighting to save the White House from McCain. Delegates, super delegates, popular vote, and polls don't matter. It is swing voters in swing states. Obama can not win in an electoral system. Do the math.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 05/16/2008
- kdogg I'm a Fan of kdogg 2 fans permalink

you can keep posting the same crap but that doesn't make it true. if its so freakin obvious why don't you give the details to us? every time i have heard someone try and explain this they have had only opinion and conjecture not facts. give me a break.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 05/16/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/487/

No YOU

Do some fact checking before vomiting up everything Clinton says like a good little baboon. She has reason to lie about it, DOH.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 05/16/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 216 fans permalink

Actually, I believe it is quite the opposite. SHe is fighting to ensure it is either MCCAIN or HERSELF, the media annoited chosen ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 05/16/2008

noneIn2008,

If you look at the polls you will see that Obama left Hillary behind. Please check before posting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 05/16/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 05/16/2008
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Unless the DNC Rules Committee wants to deal with more of this bullshit in four years, they'd be better off just sticking by the rules as they were originally agreed to. If the people in MI and FL get pissed off enough, they'll make the necessary changes to their state legislatures this election, and the next, to ensure they don't get disenfranchised a second time. Other states should be aware of this issue and vote accordingly.

Greed and need for prestige is what got these two states in trouble. Why should they be rewarded for bad behavior. Crikey, it's like dealing with children.

Hillary's math is way off. How they can divide the delegates up by the popular vote is pure nonsense. How many Democratic voters didn't even go to the polls because they were told their votes wouldn't count? The Republicans, usually the whiniest of all, have barely complained about having to accept half their delegates. Who'd a thunk it? The Repubs setting an example for the rest of us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 05/16/2008
- kiga I'm a Fan of kiga permalink

Dear DNC, super duper delegates, and Senator Obama,
Don't think you fooled us by 1) The Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, meet May 31 when it does not help Senator Clinton and her momentum. 2) Call 17,000,000 voters who voted for Senator Clinton racist (did you think about us being for Clinton and not against Obama?), 3) Ignoring the will of the majority of the party members (57% are women) to elect Senator Clinton as our nominee. I won't bore you with more, but just because you head is in the sand and can't see us, it doesn't mean that we can't see you!! Some of us will show you what we think we our votes in the fall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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sad

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 05/16/2008
- AMJordan I'm a Fan of AMJordan 27 fans permalink

I'm not going to even try to respond to these people. I lost it against patmacando over on the 17 delegate thread and I'm not going to waste the energy again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 05/16/2008
- JhNyc I'm a Fan of JhNyc 10 fans permalink

So, Senator Clinton has to be the nominee even if she lost? That is certainly rational thinking. No one ever referred to all of Senator Clinton's supporters as racists or racially motivated. No one. Those voices in your head can be treated with medication. And, finally, where did you get the notion that all Democratic women voters support Senator Clinton?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 05/16/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

LOL I know!

These people really stretch the truth and overlook rules and fair play in order to try to get their candidate nominated despite losing the fair fight.

I can only blame Clinton - if she'd had any honor or grace at all and stopped lying to the media about her own chances, these people might be a bit more rational.

And I don't get the racist coment either. Obviously not all her votes are racist ones, but a good majority of the votes in racist states were. This person needs to stop beleiving every word out of Clinton's mouth -only a couple/few of her wins were in racist states, despite how much she tried to make like those few states represent all of america, they don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 PM on 05/16/2008
- dajay I'm a Fan of dajay 16 fans permalink

JhNyc: Nice spin and nice rewriting of history here. Everyone knows how often the Hillary supporters were accused of racism and it wasn't limited to a certain state either.

Now Obama supporters may want to take that back because they know, even the dumb ones, that they need the votes of Hillary supporters'.

Pay back is a bitch as they say. And I think pay back is coming to all of you and your candidate as well.

By the way, get your facts straight, a majority of Dem women supported HILLARY over BARACK. Please stop lying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 05/16/2008

Ya know...in every race there's a winner; thereby leaving someone to be the "loser"...

Obama won...

Clinton lost...

Suck it up !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 05/16/2008
- rasil I'm a Fan of rasil 2 fans permalink

Idle threats amount to nothing. You must be one of her demographi­cs...unedu­cated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 05/16/2008
- JMorgan I'm a Fan of JMorgan 3 fans permalink

It's getting harder and harder to tell the spoofs from the true believers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 PM on 05/16/2008
- dbrockx I'm a Fan of dbrockx 2 fans permalink

Thank you, Everyone has been tellin HRC all along it's over and instead of accepting it, she still manages to find something to gripe about. Rules are rules, If they don't enforse these rules, watch what happens in the next election. HRC doesn't want to just seat the delegates, she wants all the delegates, She should be barred from ever attempting to run for another election, because she by far is the worse sore loser in the bunch. Don't be surprised if she has some sort of mental brakdown when the final reality hits her. Those 2 states broke the rules , end of discussion. Finally , the nbrs are becoming more real than ever before. HRC is through, Get a fork caused she's done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 05/16/2008

For a Clinton there exists a fate worse than death:

Being ignored.

Couldn't happen to a more worthy candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 PM on 05/16/2008
- ebbtide I'm a Fan of ebbtide 16 fans permalink

So she landed in South Dakota and no one was there to cheer her on except a couple of photographers? The place looks bare and deserted. She walks alone on the tarmac to no ones cheers and waves or signs of "change--yes we will"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 05/16/2008
- DMW1 I'm a Fan of DMW1 2 fans permalink

CALLING ALL DEMOCRATS WHO PLAN ON VOTING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE THIS FALL:

Your arguments with Hillary supporters regarding rules is falling on deaf ears. Please quit wasting your time and antagonizing those still coming to terms with Hillary's defeat. If you enjoy a good discussion/battle on issues, please stick to posting to articles regarding Obama and McCain.

You can have just as much fun arguing there (I am) and it's actually relevant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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I feel for her supporters.
I want them to come back to the Party.

I would like to see Hillary get her bearings back and get back her hard-earned respect in the Dem Party.
Only she can talk her supporters back
I really would like to see her use the FL/MI issue to make a point that rules are rules and we must uphold them or we will be screwed in future elections.
She has a couple of opportunities right now and she should take them
She deserves to be respected.
Her reaching out to her people and uniting them against Rethugs would be a great thing for us all

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:55 PM on 05/16/2008

I think she started getting respect back by standing up for him yesterday against Bush and McCain what was really telling was that she let a top foreign policy aid release the tape he had of McCain saying he would deal with Hamas, talk to them. Obviously the Clinton people have a file of stuff like that on McCain and if they are willing to use it to attack McCain on behalf of Obama that will go a long way to heal the party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:36 PM on 05/16/2008
- ebbtide I'm a Fan of ebbtide 16 fans permalink

Oh people might tolerate her, but a lot of people will never forget her evil campaign. Most of us like the idea that how we spend our time and energy is up to us and not to someone wagging a finger at us telling us we are wasting our time with the way we choose to do it. She and Bill have been despicable. She will be tolerated, but some us will not forget the person she really is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 05/16/2008
- JMorgan I'm a Fan of JMorgan 3 fans permalink

She hasn't been defeated yet. Obama, and Obama supporters, take it for granted at their own peril.

Hillary Clinton's strategy relies on people taking her for granted at this point. All she has to do is wait it out, get to the end of May (the credentials committee meeting) where MI and FL are reinstated (it's her people on that committee - what do you think the outcome will be?). Between then and the convention in August, there will be events (staged), stories everywhere in the news about black crimes, particularly against white people, threats by good ol' boys in the news, racial tension, and the ever quickening whisper campaign ("he's unelectable") will get louder, until it's deafening. Superdelegates won't be able to escape it, and will be worked on from every side until Hillary Clinton is seen as the "candidate to save us all".

As long as there isn't any pressure for her to get out of the race, every day that passes with her still in the race diminishes the likelihood of Obama's getting the nomination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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only 50% of the members of the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee are Clinton backers.

even if they somehow strongarm a few others into agreeing, she still won't be in the lead.
chances are, before that May 31 meeting, Obama will have already met the Pledged Delegate magic number.
She knows this.
She could use this opportunity to take a very sound and uniting position.
I hope she does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 05/16/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

Wow that is one healthy fantasy like there.

I wonder what is wrong with your inner constructs though, that you seem excited and happy over the prospect of --"events (staged), stories everywhere in the news about black crimes, particularly against white people, threats by good ol' boys in the news, racial tension, and the ever quickening whisper campaign ("he's unelectable") will get louder, until it's deafening"---

Do you not think there is something wrong with you that you would hope for a stoking of racial tension and worse, violence, so that your candidate can cheat her way into office? Is that really what you want?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 05/16/2008
- rasil I'm a Fan of rasil 2 fans permalink

Apparently you are clueless regarding Hillary's scandals. The Repubs have an arsenal of scandalous facts that their mouths are watering for the chance to rear her down. She is coined "The Scandal Queen." They were salivating for her to be the nomine. Scandal after scandal. Flip flops, lies, lies, lies...and more lies. The Repubs want her to be the nominee so they can bloody her and McCain wins. presidency They are scared to death of Obama so what they plan is, is to create scandals. What you fail to understand is that Senator Obama does not have any smut attached to his life or name...Res­ko, Wright, Ayers, I will even throw in Farrakan..­..nothing compared to your girl Hillary or Mccain who has alot. Senator Obama will be challenged but I guarantee you that he will walk through the fire and will not even smell the smoke. Go figure. Your girl has too much baggage. Just read Crossfire, Friends In High Places, Why The Clintons belong In Prison, Passion and Betrayal,The Truth About Hillary and so much more. Google Paul vs. Clinton, Hillary's Christmas Tree In The Blue Room, The Family/The Fellowship, and Clinton Scandals. So much more but not enough space.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 05/16/2008
- dajay I'm a Fan of dajay 16 fans permalink

DMW! As a Hillary supporter, I couldn't agree more.

Debate the issues with Obama and McCain.

Why are you still here bashing HIllary and her supporters?

You should be far more concerned with what the nasty Repubs are going to do your candidate.

But your obsessive hate with HIllary and hate mongering, and race baiting, is what you guys really want to do here, just admit it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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OT

Mike Huckabee has just made a "joke" that Obama is going to get shot at.
He was speaking at an NRA conference.
This man needs to be denounced rejected and disciplined by McCain and Bush immediately.

This behavior is inexcusable and has my blood boiling!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 05/16/2008
- izAriver I'm a Fan of izAriver 27 fans permalink

That thing rove was there too. Didn't it occur to huckleberry that it might have been him that was ducking for cover?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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well, too bad Rove wasn't arrested for contempt and hauled out in Hoof-Cuffs

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 PM on 05/16/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

That is really heinous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:29 PM on 05/16/2008
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They won't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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Clinton knows FL and MI cannot save her
She knows this is over.

She has an opportunity to gain back a lot of her respect and dignity by standing up and speaking truth.
No state can break the rules and then throw a tantrum and get their way.

She should really grab this moment and make the Dems proud of her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:44 PM on 05/16/2008

I notice you posted a link to another blog that wasn't deleted. I posted a link to a radio station where Operation Turn Down is featured and it got deleted. All of my comments have been thoughtful and respectful. Why would Huff delete my post? I've already said that I'd vote for Obama come November if he is the Democratic nominee. However, I support Clinton and find it very interesting how everything is playing out right now. It's news, it's politics and it shouldn't be silenced unless I missed a FAQ about Huff re Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 05/16/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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I don't know what link you posted or why it got deleted, but I can promise you, we are all getting scrubbed with no rhyme or reason. It's been going on for a month now.
In fact, many Obama supporters (myself included) got banned in one fell-swoop. Many have NEVER posted anything offensive.
i got an email about some software glitch blah blah blah.
Hang in there.
trust, it's not a conspiracy - it's across the board.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 PM on 05/16/2008

It's a good gesture, making an effort to seat these delegates, but it does beg the question: what's the best way to punish them?

Solution: All those members of the Democratic committees in the two states who voted for the early primary should lose their seats. How those seats should be divided is a decision the DNC will need to make, but the people who caused all this trouble should be banned from, say, the next three conventions.

Punish the people who caused the trouble, not the voters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 05/16/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

This should be left up to the DNC to decide.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 05/16/2008
- JMorgan I'm a Fan of JMorgan 3 fans permalink

Which voters aren't you punishing? The voters who showed up and voted when everyone was told it wouldn't count? Or those voters who believed it wouldn't count, didn't vote, and perhaps hoped that if everybody stayed home, the election would be held on the real day that it was supposed to have been held?

There is no way to make the voters whole. They are as responsible for this mess as their elected representatives who did it, because the voters gave the elected representatives the authority.

Until voters in the US realize that voting every 2 or 4 years isn't enough, and that the democracy only works with an active and constantly participating electorate, nullifying their vote is what happens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 05/16/2008

There was one primary day in Florida for both parties, and in Florida there is a Republican House, Senate, and Governor. Exactly how are Democratic voters who lost their voices when the DNC cut off their heads supposed to have fixed the primary date? Armed rebellion? To punish the Democratic voters like that is draconian. We have soldiers from Florida and Michigan who are Democrats with their lives on the line and this is the thanks we give them at home? Brilliant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 05/16/2008

At one point I was worried about these hilldabeast supporters who are threatening to walk, until it became more and more clear that they are the same 5 kooks furiously typing gobbledygook on HuffPo, hillaryis4­4.crazy and taylormars­h.insane.

There are a few seriously disturbed hillary supporters with a lot of time on their hands.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 05/16/2008
- DMW1 I'm a Fan of DMW1 2 fans permalink

I wouldn't be surprised if some are actually Republicans trying to sow the seeds of divisiveness in the Democratic party....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:55 PM on 05/16/2008
- ebbtide I'm a Fan of ebbtide 16 fans permalink

Seems that way to me also, or unless they were actually Hiullary paid operatives working for her campaign. and now see her loss as a loss to a lucrative job with her administration. Did you know that Taylor Marsh's real name is Michelle Marshall? Did you know her claims as a book writer rest on the fact that she paid to have her book published? No one of the prominent publishers would touch it, so she had to pay a second rate, pay for it yourself, publisher to do it.? Did you know her claims to be a radio talk show host originated in her basement where she recorded sounds and talked and then played them to those who would listen as if she were really on mic in a studio? Did you know she was into supporting porn and is proud of it? She is phoney from the day one, seeking to make a name for herself and get on the tee vee. After this is over, she will be out of a job and looking for some new scam to promote herself
as some sort of a big shot with inner connections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 05/16/2008
- JMorgan I'm a Fan of JMorgan 3 fans permalink

If there are no consequences for states' parties' failing to keep agreements (MI and FL leapfrogging over all of the other states after the representatives to the DNC agreed on the format and the order by which the primaries would be held), what's to prevent other states from doing the same thing as MI and FL in 2012?

Isn't this the very model of our democracy?

If MI and FL refuse to abide by the rules they signed on to, how can we have a democracy in which we all agree to abide by the rule of law?

MI and FL need to be very careful about their actions at this point. For the well-being of the nation, for their states, for their own citizens. Are they really saying that they can't be trusted to keep their word, and behave civilly? Are they saying that they will not abide by the rule of law?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 05/16/2008
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