Florida, Michigan cannot save Clinton

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NEDRA PICKLER | May 16, 2008 10:06 PM EST | AP

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Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., walks from her campaign plane on the tarmac in Rapid City, South Dakota Thursday, May 15, 2008. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola)

WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign.

Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little interest in the former first lady's best-case scenario. Her position, part of a formidable comeback challenge, is that all the delegates be seated in accordance with their disputed primaries.

Even if they were, it wouldn't erase Barack Obama's growing lead in delegates.

The Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, a 30-member panel charged with interpreting and enforcing party rules, is to meet May 31 to consider how to handle Michigan and Florida's 368 delegates _ both pledged delegates and superdelegates.

Last year, the panel imposed the harshest punishment it could render against the two states after they scheduled primaries in January, even though they were instructed not to vote until Feb. 5 or later. Michigan and Florida lost all their delegates to the national convention, and all the Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign in the two states, stripping them of all the influence they were trying to build by voting early.

But now there is agreement on all sides that at least some of the delegates should be restored in a gesture of party unity and respect to voters in two general election battlegrounds.

Clinton has been arguing for full reinstatement, which would boost her standing. She won both states, even though they didn't count toward the nomination and neither candidate campaigned in them. Obama even had his name pulled from Michigan's ballot.

The Associated Press interviewed a third of the panel members and several other Democrats involved in the negotiations and found widespread agreement that the states must be punished for stepping out of line. If not, many members say, other states will do the same thing in four years.

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"We certainly want to be fair to both candidates, and we want to be sure that we are fair to the 48 states who abided by the rules," said Democratic National Committee Secretary Alice Germond, a panel member unaligned with either candidate. "We don't want absolute chaos for 2012.

"We want to reach out to Michigan and Florida and seat some group of delegates in some manner, at least most of us do. These are two critical states for the general (election) and the voters of those states who were not the people who caused this awful conundrum to occur deserve our attention and deserve to be a part of our process and deserve to be at the convention," she said.

Just as Democrats across the country have been divided over which candidate would make the better nominee, most of the panel members also bring personal preferences to the table.

Many are long-standing party officials with close ties to the Clintons. The former first lady has 13 members publicly supporting her, including campaign advisers Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy who are working to build her delegate count. Eight are openly aligned with Obama. Nine others are officially undeclared.

"We have to have delegates, and they have to be delegations that reflect the opinions of those two states," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a committee member supporting Clinton. "How we get there is very different because everyone sees these questions of who it helps and who it hurts. I don't think the formulation has been found that will get around the piece at this point." But he said a solution is probably possible among the diverse interests.

Because Obama is in the lead for the nomination, his camp heads into the meeting in a position of strength. It is possible the Illinois senator could clinch the nomination by the time the panel meets if he picks up the pace of superdelegate endorsements in the coming weeks.

But Obama has such a lead that he may be able to afford to be generous and give Clinton most of the delegates. That would help put the issue behind them and help him build goodwill in Michigan and Florida heading into the November election.

Still, some think the fairest solution is to disregard the primary votes and split the delegations evenly between the two candidates. Yvonne Gates, a member of Nevada who said she is keeping her candidate preference private until after the meeting so her decision won't be questioned, said she isn't sure what position she would support at the meeting but that it must be fair to both candidates.

"My definition is a 50-50 split is something that is fair," she said. "It cannot be a situation where you give one candidate more votes than the other. In my opinion that wasn't an election when they didn't have a chance to get out and talk to the people of that community."

It's also possible that any vote that recognizes the Michigan and Florida results would legitimize their elections. Clinton has been arguing that she leads in the popular vote, but that's only when both states are included and it is very slim _ fewer than 5,000 votes out of 34 million cast.

Her accounting also doesn't include some caucus states that favored Obama and where the popular vote wasn't tallied. The measure of winning the nomination is not the popular vote but whoever can get the majority of delegates _ currently 2,026 are needed for the nomination although adding Michigan and Florida back in would change the threshold.

Obama climbed to 1,904 on Friday, according to The Associated Press count. Clinton has 1,719 delegates and is trying to use the popular vote argument to win over more.

Clinton encouraged supporters in an e-mail Friday to sign a message to the DNC asking them to count Michigan and Florida in the May 31 meeting. "I need you to remind them that in the Democratic Party, we count every vote," her e-mail said.

Fourteen of Clinton's Hispanic supporters in Congress sent a letter to the Rules and Bylaws Committee Friday arguing that disregarding the votes cast by Hispanics, 12 percent of the primary vote in Florida, could damage the nominee.

So far, Obama's campaign has not been giving direction publicly or privately to panel members. The Clinton campaign's official position has been full reinstatement, but her advisers acknowledge they are considering an idea before the panel to seat the delegates with half a vote each. Clinton campaign Chairman Terry McAuliffe said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press" that they "certainly might" accept a compromise to seat half the delegates.

If their elections had been held according to party rules, Michigan and Florida would have allocated a total of 313 pledged delegates based on the outcome of the vote.

Using the results of the January elections with no votes for Obama from Michigan, Clinton would get 178 to Obama's 67, with the remainder in Michigan who voted "uncommitted" and giving her a 111-vote advantage. The remainder of the 368 delegates includes those representing the "uncommitted" vote in Michigan and John Edwards in Florida, along with superdelegates.

As of Friday, she was behind 185 delegates, so that would not catch her up even under that unlikely scenario.

The plans before the committee will be more generous to Obama. The Michigan Democratic Party has proposed giving 69 of its 128 delegates to Clinton and 59 to Obama, an advantage of 10 delegates for Clinton.

A proposal from Florida would halve its 185 delegates. From that, Clinton would get 52.5 and Obama 33.5, a 19-delegate advantage for Clinton.

"I think it's a reasonable solution to the problem that was created, and my hope is that we'll be able to get past this and move on," said Allan Katz, an Obama supporter who serves on the panel but won't be able to vote on any Florida solution because he is from the state.

The committee is not bound to select the proposals offered and has authority to reinstate any number of delegates and divide them in any way.

An open question is how to handle the other type of delegates each state lost _ the superdelegates who are party leaders not bound by the outcome of the vote and are free to support whatever candidate they personally choose. Michigan has 29 superdelegates, and Florida 26. A total of nine have declared for Obama, 15 for Clinton and the rest are undeclared.

___

On the Net:

Democratic National Committee: http://www.democrats.org

WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign. Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little ...
WASHINGTON — Michigan and Florida alone can't save Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign. Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little ...
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- Canaris I'm a Fan of Canaris 2 fans permalink

Seat the Florida delegation as they voted, but with each delegate having half a vote.

Split the Michigan delegates 50-50, with each delegate having half a vote. Since Michigan's ballot didn't have Obama's name on it, and was declared unconstitutional, you can't seat them as they voted, imo.

Reinstate the supers from both states, with each super having half a vote.

That is being more than fair to Sen. Clinton, as she did agree, in writing, that those delegations would NOT be seated and that those votes would NOT count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 05/16/2008

I dont think the super delegates should be seated. They were the cause of the problem and should not be rewarded

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 AM on 05/16/2008
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That's a good point. It was the supers who made the call to move up the primary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/16/2008

what happened to the rules? this really is a crock.

these people need to remember that if they make any exceptions this time, that states will break the rules all over the place and think that 'down the road the committee will change it's mind." they're setting precedent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 05/16/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

it's like nobody ever raised a kid around here!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/16/2008
- MilesTone I'm a Fan of MilesTone 3 fans permalink

Ok, so we seat all of the delegates in Michigan and Florida, she is still behind.

Happy now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 05/16/2008
- bipolar2 I'm a Fan of bipolar2 10 fans permalink

Huff & Poof, you just don't get it.

** staying her (divinely ordained) course **

Hilary is God's anointed One -- she says so; so it must be true. Empress of America & its spheres of influence worldwide & outer spatial domains --

all it requires is a little adjusting of the vote in Florida . . . or threatening a few super-delegates . . . or launching a court case.

Hasn't this happened before? No, that was a supremely bad dream.

After all, Her's will be an *enlightened* despotism.

bipolar2
© 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 05/16/2008

They CANNOT seat all the delegates from Michigan and Florida. They just can't!

As Alice Germond said, it would set a precedence for future primaries that would lead to total chaos. If they seat all delegates from Michigan and Florida, what would stop other states from doing the same? Nothing. If rules don't apply, then no one is going to follow the rules since there's no penalty for breaking the rules and no greater reward for following the rules. Seating all delegates would mean that any state can hold their primaries whenever they want, and the candidates can make up their own rules for winning the nomination by coming up with whatever number of delegates desired.

THEY CANNOT SEAT ALL THE DELEGATES FROM MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 05/16/2008

My answer to "MilesTone"'s question regarding seating Michigan and Florida and would I then be "Happy now?" the answer is emphaticlly "YES!".....

FINALLY a few (very few) Obamites are getting around to realizing that disenfranchising the voters of Michigan and Florida (of ALL places) is suicidal lunacy for a Democratic nominee hoping to craft a winning general election strategy.

The close to three MILLION voters currently being told that their wishes don't count will remember that,........ and will not look kindly upon Obama's intransigence on this issue.

Maybe now, with the nomination closer at hand, Obama and his supporters can see that those of us reminding them of this fact have not been engaged in a dastardly plot to steal their candidates thunder ...but have had the best interests of the party and the country at heart all along, (a mind-set large numbers of Obama's supporters know nothing about).

For those insistant that DNC's harebrained approach to this debacle must be followed (over the electoral CLIFF, in my view!) and that "Mich. & Fla. don't count" I can ASSURE you:

Come November,...... voters in these two critical swing states will be reminding us all that they most emphatically DO count!!!

Regarding Florida, in particular, if, because I don't share your worship for the Senator from Illinois,
you have difficulty believing me,...... I invite you to ask President Al Gore if Florida "counts"

WAKE UP Obamites!.........this is serious business.....and it's about a lot more than just YOU........tm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 05/16/2008

I'm confused. Florida and Michigan were warned about what would happen if they moved the primaries up. They did it anyways and now we are supposed to feel bad that they got punished and you guys are going to hold your breath until you get your way??
HEY - LISTEN UP - FLORIDA YOU'VED SCREWED US FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS WITH YOUR MAJOR F' UP in 2000. The other 48 states COUNT TOO!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 05/16/2008

OK, what rule does Obama get to change? In fact every candidate should be allowed to change a couple of rules at their discretion. Get it? you can't keep changing rules or chaos ensues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 05/16/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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Excellent post!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 05/16/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

I would recommend to all Florida/Michigan complainers go and regester some voters. We still have an election to win and fighting over spilt mil will just make you bitter.

If you are a Democrat and understand the importance of this election to this country you would start preparing for McPander.

I hate that your leadership or your state electing Republicans to the state house have screwed you this year. It was not the DNC screwing you it is the people who moved up the primaries.

So I recommend that you kick out all the people who pushed for the early vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 05/16/2008
- Sparklez I'm a Fan of Sparklez 4 fans permalink

I think Obama should agree to it

She would still be behind and the Supers' will look at her as a crybaby when she doesnt get her way and he will look like the Messiah

He will still come out on top. Ha Ha

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 05/16/2008

as if he doesn't already....8)

just what we need...a messiah...for president...8(

and they thought the religeous right was Bush's downfall...sheeesh!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 05/16/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

no.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/16/2008
- gadfly55 I'm a Fan of gadfly55 3 fans permalink

The latest calculation of delegates required to exceed the magic number for Obama is now 120.5. Anticipating at least 95 pledged delegates from the remaining primaries, and including the remaining as yet undeclared Edwards pledged delegates who can now transfer to Obama, there are precious few opportunites for the remaining superdelegates to declare for Obama. The various markets for nominee for Democratic Presidential candidate are effectively closed. Bush has already begun his attack on Obama, and the Republicans now are focusing their fire upon him also. The contest is finished and Clinton strategists should throw in the towel as continuation of antagonism from both sides only foments division and bitterness requiring considerable time to heal. The best solution is to begin the battle against McCain and the factions intent on destroying Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 05/16/2008
- TheQuis I'm a Fan of TheQuis 3 fans permalink

There are two forces that are diametrically opposed in marketing a.k.a. campaigning. Brand Recognition vs. Grass Roots Campaigning.

Obama who started this election with very little brand recognition built his election on a VAST grassroots organization. Setting up offices in states across the nation weeks and in some cases months in advance. Knocking on doors, talking to people, registering voters. Senator Clinton chose to go the Brand Recognition route. She had fewer offices and EARLY in the campaign (you know, back when she had money) she used commercials effectively pushing the Well Established Clinton brand.

When MI.FL knowingly nullified their votes, they were presuming that Hillary would be the established nominee and at that time their votes wouldn't wouldn't have made a difference. They wanted their elections to get press and be the first to set the tone for the nation. Hindsight being 20/20 had they left their elections in the correctly slated position, they would have garnered all the attention they were looking for in the first place.

Hillary won those states with her greater brand recognition. Barack didn't have a chance to do what he has shown time and again that he is best, at organizing a coalition of forces to talk to people and bring out the vote. To allow MI.FL to seat their delegates would be another victory of establishment over activism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 05/16/2008

Yet another thoughtful post, thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 05/16/2008

Amen, finally someone who understands marketing!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 05/16/2008
- simplify I'm a Fan of simplify 53 fans permalink
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Interesting that even now some supporters of Mrs Clinton do not realize she cant win. In my estimation its a direct result of being misinformed or not informed at all. Obama has won this fair and square and I dare anyone to show me or direct me to any speech he made where he belittled or insulted Hillary on any level. He has run a clean efficient and strong campaign . So much so that its the envy of some Republicans. Hillary's supporters take an objective look at the odds against Obama at the beginning of this process and its final outcome. Like him or not, he has achieved what most people didnt think possible.
If you can do that, ask yourself why?.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 05/16/2008
- chlllfactor I'm a Fan of chlllfactor 130 fans permalink
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Agreed! Senator Obama only needs 17 more pledged delegates to secure the nomination. It is over, Hillary supporters, deal with it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 05/16/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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It's not about "saving Clinton" and never was. It's about counting votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 05/16/2008

Obama agreed to the DNC position put forth on the Michigan compromise. Clinton rejected it. She wants all 128 delegates, not just the portion she won.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 05/16/2008
- jkpcguru I'm a Fan of jkpcguru 12 fans permalink
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omg, I didn't know this. She is delusional!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 05/16/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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I have no opinion on MI, it's a whole different story. I know in FL, the Obama campaign has refused to accept any compromise that doesn't include him stealing votes he didn't get.

It won't make a damn bit of difference in the end, but he wants FL's vote in Nov (and he's going to need it) he's not making any friends down here.

Fl is not satisfied to be Obama's ATM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 05/16/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

It is exactly about saving Clinton and it always has been.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 05/16/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Counting the votes so HRC can ask the Supers to discount the votes, I guess her pledge and support from "Hard Working Americans, White Americans" didn't work for her.

RACE BAITER

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 05/16/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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How do you get "RACE BAITER" out of that?

Projecting much?

I voted in FL. I didn't vote for Clinton or Obama.

I want my vote counted. For once. Will it make on bit of difference to anyone? No. But in this country we (used to) count every vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 05/16/2008
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If MI and FL wanted their votes to count, they would have abided by the rules. It isn't like they were "secret rules"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 05/16/2008
- AxelDC I'm a Fan of AxelDC 89 fans permalink
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There won't be chaos in 2012. President Obama will be running for re-election and unopposed. It's 2016 that matters, and by then you'd better figure something out. This year was a nightmare!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 05/16/2008
- jkpcguru I'm a Fan of jkpcguru 12 fans permalink
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lol, Yes because Obama can't run anymore and Obama is a once in a lifetime candidate. the horror!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 05/16/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Well she can always turn to her base "Hard Working Americans, White Americans"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 05/16/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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The math hasn't been there for her for a long time. And she has known this surely. MI and FL were a gambit. Clinton herself made strong statements about these states being outside the rules and not being seated. So she has played her gambit and it hasn't worked. I'm glad the rues committee respected the rules. After the last eight years of the courts disregarding the law and the justice department doing everything it can to promote injustice, I just expected the rules committee to ignore the rules. Glad I was wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 05/16/2008

It was Hillary's camp that turned down the most recent proposed solution (which was in her favor).

How would she have felt if it was her name NOT on the ticket, I wonder? How would Clinton supporters feel then? Would you just let Obama have all of the votes and laugh it off? Uh...no.

Don't know why Obama gets blamed for this. He had nothing to do with it...except to step in and prevent HRC from re-writing the rules they'd all agreed to.

I like Hillary, don't get me wrong, I understand that she wants to win...badly...and I respect that. But she can't win anymore. It was a very close race, someone had to loose. By trying to change the rules, grasp at straws, and poison Obama through her loyal supporters...she is just being a poor sport. It makes me sad. Obama is really incredible if you look at him fairly and without all of the fabricated political bulls**t that has been thrown his way.

I actually think Hillary is WAY more decent that she is being portrayed, also, and would probably be upset to see all the hate for Obama that she has inspired...I hope she would, anyway. It's really awful to watch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 05/16/2008
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Hillary is time to sing the final song:

And now, the end is near;
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, Ill say it clear,
Ill state my case, of which Im certain.

Ive lived a life thats full.
Ive traveled each and evry highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, Ive had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Yes, there were times, Im sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 05/16/2008

1. Do not abdicate Democracy and end the nomination process before all voters have been counted. 2. Count every vote, as you have claimed to believe in doing. 3. Take the names out, take the politics (Progressive or Centrist) out and support the best candidate for America. He did not know the Rules. He abandoned voters in Michigan (he learned, but it was too late to get his name back on that ballot). Of course he kept his name on the Florida ballot. These delegates have to be seated to win in Nov. The question: How to disseminate the delegates? Simple: Count them, it is allowed under the rules, but do not try to justify changing how they are disseminated. The wiser Democrat of the two deserves the most delegates. She knows Voters matter. Political analysts are saying that HIs effort to derail Michigan/Florida is merely political hardball. Is that really what this Party stands for? Political hardball at the voters' expense? I hope not or I will be re-think ingmy membership.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 05/16/2008
- nomobull I'm a Fan of nomobull 52 fans permalink
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pure bs and you know it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 05/16/2008

North - "He abandoned voters in Michigan"............OMG can you really be this stupid? He is a true Democrat, he understands the rules and follows them - like everyone else on the ballot- except HRC.

What Barack did wrong was underestimate the lengths to which HRC and her supporters would go to win this thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 05/16/2008
- SpoxLogic I'm a Fan of SpoxLogic 21 fans permalink

This is typical of people who want to keep someone down or out of their "club". They say "Play by the rules". And then, when you start winning, they want to change the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 05/16/2008
- abigail1 I'm a Fan of abigail1 36 fans permalink

It was the party leaders in Florida and Michigan that played hardball at the voters expense, not Obama or Clinton.
But he did know the rules and he followed them. she knew them too, publicly stated that Michigan would not count and only when it was clear that she was going to lose did she start making a stink about it.
I am not sure how that shows wisdom.
I am quite sure that blowing more than 100 million dollars on high priced consultants who came up with a failed strategy does not show wisdom. I am quite sure that not having a back up plan if she didn't cinch the nomination on super tuesday does not show wisdom. I quite sure that failing to understand the importance of caucus states does not show wisdom.
I agree with you that the wiser of the two candidates deserves the most delegates, and he has earned them with or without Michigan and Florida. this myth that Clinton supporters have created that Obama is somehow an all powerful political insider and Hillary Clinton is the underdog is just absurd. She had every advantage and he beat her, by every measure, even the unfair ridiculous ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 05/16/2008

Do you people even realize how stupid your arguments are and that you constantly contradict yourself?

Which is it? Do you want to count every vote? Or do you want to over rule the votes?

Second, learn the facts. You can't remove your name from the Florida ballot. Once on the ballot there is no mechanism to remove it.

Third, do you even understand who the delegates are that you so desperately want seated? They are a bunch of party insiders who want to get a trip to Denver so they can party and smooze with political big wigs to advance their careers. Those delegates have absolutely nothing to do with the vote this November. It's a bunch of political spin to say otherwise.

Finally, he didn't derail the revote. Clinton did in her demanding of how they did the revote. She wanted to EXCLUDE people from the vote, and only allow those that voted the first time to revote the second time. She wanted to get the same result by having only the same people allowed to vote. She didn't give a damn about enfranchising voters, it was simply to win.

Oh, and she was offered a split of the delegates as you suggested based on the original vote... but she wanted ALL of the 128 delegates, those that voted for her and the ones that voted uncommitted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 05/16/2008

THANK YOU! Here is someone with the FACTS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 05/16/2008
- chlllfactor I'm a Fan of chlllfactor 130 fans permalink
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He would have removed his name from the ballot in FL because Senator Obama plays by the rules unlike Hillary, but the ballots had already been printed. My god, North, what about the political process do you not understand? Play by the rules, be reprimanded if you do not, but the rules are not changed in the middle of the game.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 05/16/2008
- dcree77 I'm a Fan of dcree77 3 fans permalink

Actually, the rules in Florida would have required him to remove himself from the political race. That is why he did not remove his name from the Florida ballot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 05/16/2008
- Grannysue I'm a Fan of Grannysue 133 fans permalink
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OMG, now what, she will have to come up with yet "another" way to win, let's see I know, only people who wear white shirts and pantsuits can vote, and of course only if they have voted for her will they be counted! Can we end this mess please!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 05/16/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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Maybe not, but something might save her for the VP, here is an excerpt from an article by Bob Beckel of Real Clear Politics:
"Does Hillary Clinton want to be the Democrats vice presidential candidate? Probably. Could she get on the ticket by dropping out before the last states vote on June 3rd? Definitely not. Does Barack Obama want her on the ticket? Absolutely not. Can he stop her if she wants it? Probably not. Why not? Super delegates are why not."
The article is riveting, it's just one page, here's the link:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam.html
For now, I'll say this. If Obama does a backroom deal with some superdelegates---who say they will endorse him as nominee just if he takes Hillary on as VP---, how will that effect his standing as the candidate of a new kind of politics? Will he cave in or will he stand on principle--and forfeit the nomination? What a test.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 AM on 05/16/2008
- billrott I'm a Fan of billrott 9 fans permalink

abby4ever,

I do not believe that Obama will pick Hillary as VP or be forced to pick her. Hillary is way too divisive and adds more negatives than positives to the ticket. What you may see is Obama picking a VP candidate that is strong in Hillary world and can deliver a swing state.

Would not be surprised to see someone such as Governor Strickland be picked. Strickland has not been an open critic of Obama as others such as Rendell and Bayh have. Strickland would assist in Ohio, PA, and Michigan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 05/16/2008
- chlllfactor I'm a Fan of chlllfactor 130 fans permalink
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I agree. Clinton has pissed off too many party leaders on her drive toward the presidency. I have to say David Goergen put it quite Succinctly when he said if Hillary where the VP, President Obama would have to hire a food taster. Nor do we do not need three presidents in the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 05/16/2008

Give it a rest. It's over for any political position for the foreseeable future. She burned the house to light the candle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 05/16/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

Well said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 05/16/2008
- TN60 I'm a Fan of TN60 147 fans permalink
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I totally agree. She burned her bridges with the Iraq War, against Levin amendment, McCain is qualified but not Obama, WHITE hardworking people, sniper fire where she put daughter in harms way, run a crappy campaign with debt owed to the small business owners, cried in NH, asbesto pants suit , bomb Iran and the parroting mcsane, the phony gas tax.

She not only burned the house she dynamited the bridges forward into the 21st century.

Heaven help us all, if Obama picks her for VP. She's a pushy broad and he will have to watch her and Bill like a hawk or they will undermine anything he wants to get done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 05/16/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Bob Beckel doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. Obama has $100,000,000 dollars to hold over every argument that they bring to him. He will do what he wants as he should. He is now the head of the Party and Bill-n-Hill will just have to live with that.
Obama can send out 1,000,000 emails asking his supporters to send $1.00 to a candidate in New York and match months of Pandering that a politician usually has to do to raise funds.

That is power and if you don't get it yet your just slow on the uptake or maybe living in Hillaryland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 05/16/2008
- Trace8089 I'm a Fan of Trace8089 2 fans permalink

I sick of this crap. The fair thing would have been to re-vote but thats not going to happen because Obama was a coward. The rules committee should impose the 50% cut in delegates and award Florida by the vote and give Clinton 55% and Obama 45% of Michigan. Obama's and Edwards's asked their voters to vote uncommitted so Obama should get those votes. This wouldn't affect the outcome of the race but would be the fair thing to do. Let's get the party together and kick McCain's ass. Then after the election change these stupid ass rules.

My suggestions No super delegates, 50 state primaries with the same rules, break the states into 5 regions, each regional primary is limited to 6 weeks of campaigning, rotate the starting region every 4 years to be fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 05/16/2008

Ttrace - if you are REALLY sick of this crap then you would stop repeating crap that is not true. The facts are the facts - Obama did not stop any recount - both campaigns have been negotiating with each other over what to do with these two states. HRC's campaign wanted to cheat and Obama's campaign wanted to play by the rules.

Another thing - when you call Obama a "coward" all it does is make you look petty and it pisses us Obama supporters off - just like if an Obama supporter calls HRC a "spoiled cheater"- see what I mean?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 05/16/2008
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thank you - if anyone is full of crap it is the person who agreed to the set rules and now wants to change them to suit her whims.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 05/16/2008

Stars,

You forgot to mention the only reason that the Michigan issue hasn't been settled as of this day is Hillary has refused the compromise put forth by the Michigan Democratic Committee and was agreed upon by the DNC and was accepted by Barack Obama's campaign.

So to all those Clintonians out there that keep repeating the same misinformation...It is HILLARY WHO IS BLOCKING THE SEATING OF THE MICHIGAN DELEGATION (not yelling just emphasis, I which this site had bolding...lol)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 05/16/2008
- chlllfactor I'm a Fan of chlllfactor 130 fans permalink
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To call Senator Obama a 'coward' is really distorting facts. I can understand that you are angry because your candidate did not win, but people with your hard-nose attitude are doing nothing to help the party. Women so enamored by Hillary are setting the feminist movement back 50 years and demeaning the hard work many women have fought for to get us where we are. It was Bill Clinton and Hillary's former camapign manager who help pound the superdelegate format in place - place the blame where it belongs, not on Senator Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 05/16/2008

Trace...can you please type that again and tell us when this starts to make sense?

First of all, it would only be a "revote" if EVERYONE Dems, Repubs' and Independents were allowed to vote. This proposed revote knocks them off the list. So in your divine wisdom...please explain how this is fair by changing the rules so that it is a closed primary?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 AM on 05/16/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

In both cases, revotes were nixed by the state legislatures due to cost and logistics (and in the case of Michigan, the fact that the State Supreme Court ruled that the revote plan was unconstitutional.)

You'll never be able to make a compelling argument until you get your facts straight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 05/16/2008

Where do you people get your facts and where is your integrity to rules, agreements, and honesty?

The DNC, Clinton, Obama, and the States (MI & Fl) made decisions and the outcome of those decisions was that (MI /FL) would lose delegate seating. Hillary & Obama agreed with the DNC rules. In a sign of solidarity with the DNC several candidates removed their names in MI., in Fl they were not to campaign in Florida.
Would you ascribe to a privately funded re-vote? It was MI & Fl own state legislature that nixed a revote. How do you address the 48 states that followed the rules. Or the candidates that followed the rules. It isn't as simple as you think. If you're a democrat just support the nominee!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 AM on 05/16/2008
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