Obama Or McCain: Who's Really Underestimating Iran?

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First Posted: 05-19-08 05:49 PM   |   Updated: 05-27-08 05:12 AM

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Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely Democratic nominee suggested that if Presidents Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan could talk to the titans of communism, perhaps the next president might want to talk to Tehran -- McCain once again thumped Obama's "inexperience and reckless judgment" for failing to accurately judge the threat posed by the Islamic Republic.

Leave aside for a moment logic which holds that the more powerful an enemy is, the more strenuously one should pretend not to notice it. By dinging Obama for underestimating Iranian power, McCain may have opened himself up to a debate he's in no position to win himself, according to experts and regional observers who say Iran's increased power in part due to the diplomatic freeze under the Bush administration -- the same policy McCain now favors on the campaign trail.

Rami Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute at the American University of Beirut, said recent events in Lebanon -- where Iranian-backed Hezbollah forces recently shut down the U.S.-backed government in Beirut without breaking a sweat -- are key to understanding America's current impotence in the face of growing Iranian influence.

"Lebanon is a great example of how this policy of [non-engagement] backfires," Khouri told The Huffington Post. "When the U.S. decides to rigorously ostracize Islamist movements that have some public or nationalist legitimacy, it's almost inevitably going to lose. ... The sad thing is that this posture is making the U.S. a more marginal player in many situations. More and more people around the world feel they can actively resist the United States. This generates a terrible backlash against the U.S. and really requires a serious re-think."

Vali Nasr, the Iran-born author of The Shia Revival and an expert on Middle Eastern affairs at the Council on Foreign Relations, says the problem even goes beyond the question of whether to talk to Iran or not about bilateral disputes. "It's not only that the United States has not engaged Iran, but that it has excluded Iran from a dialogue in every other arena in which it has an interest -- even in Afghanistan, where Iran is a neighbor," he said. "We haven't served ourselves well, because while Iran is clearly a stakeholder, they have no vested interest in cooperating. Consequently, not only hasn't it gotten us anything, it's made them more of a headache."

Not surprisingly, McCain national security adviser Max Boot sees it differently. Claiming there's nothing the United States can discuss with Iran "except the terms of our surrender," he nevertheless concedes that the recent Hezbollah offensive in Lebanon represents a "limited victory" for Iran. But Boot, who along with Nasr is member of the Council on Foreign Relations, rejects the notion that the Bush administration is at fault for Iran's newfound strength.

"Look, [Iran] has been fairly effective in terms of carving out a role for themselves by providing arms to Hamas and Hezbollah, and that's worked," he told The Huffington Post. "I don't really see what kind of leverage we could have to negotiate at this point. What would we give them? I think Sen. McCain is right when he says we have to turn up the heat, with diplomatic and economic action. Perhaps even military action if necessary."

Nasr, however, disputes Boot's claim that there are no potentially fruitful avenues of discussion. "The Bush administration's problem, and to an extent McCain's, is they think that there is a single silver bullet meeting to be had with the Iranians where you can come away with what you want. That's not the way it's going to happen. It's not the way it happened with China, or [in the Anbar Awakening] in Iraq, or any other conflict. The way it happens is with patience and strategy. And then we gradually and incrementally get things out of it."

In a perverse, self-defeating turn of events, Nasr says, America's refusal to talk to Iran may have left us ignorant about what its leaders might want from us. "The Washington feedback loop is just guessing about Iran," Nasr said, "because no one knows what they [Iran] want. The same things were said about the [Sunni] insurgent commanders in Iraq -- that you couldn't talk to them, they had American blood on their hands. And when General Petraeus adopted a more pragmatic strategy: Surprise, surprise! They did want something. The same thing happened in North Korea and Libya. Everywhere we've done this it's been a success."

Though Nasr doubts Iran will change its own aggressive stances in the last nine months of the Bush presidency, he believes a new administration will bring new opportunities to engage, if only on small matters at first. Similar opportunities may emerge after Iran holds its next presidential election in 2009. As the Washington Post reported last week, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is now musing in public as to "whether there was a missed opportunity" for dialogue with Iran before Mamhoud Ahmadinejad's election in 2005. If that's true, than the real danger for the next president may not reside in underestimating Iran's power, but in underestimating its willingness to cut a deal.

Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
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- BigSid I'm a Fan of BigSid 9 fans permalink

MAYBE THE WHOLE THING IS AS SIMPLE AS THIS:

Maybe McCain feels can't talk to Iran, because he's not a Muslim. Obama is convinced he can have a dialogue with Iran, so maybe there's something we don't know about Obama. Maybe there's something Obama's not telling us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 AM on 05/20/2008

So, you're suggesting that McCain is not intelligent enough to have a conversation with someone of a different religion?

That's a pretty sad attempt at a "secret muslim" joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 AM on 05/20/2008

Maybe you post retarded comments like this because you're an agent of the Tennessee GOP. Have you stopped beating your children yet?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 AM on 05/20/2008
- djelimon I'm a Fan of djelimon 2 fans permalink

Yes, because only a muslim could possibly want to talk to a muslim

sheesh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 AM on 05/20/2008
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How come every troll has to lie to try and make an argument?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 AM on 05/20/2008

Your logic and implication is absolutely clear to me. This means that JFK was a Soviet and Nixon was actually Chinese. I never realized it before. He must have had plastic surgery or something. After you shared your wisdom with us, it went back and looked at the pictures and I think you're right.

I saw a white guy talking to a black guy the other day. I bet he was actually a black guy wearing whiteface, and not a white man at all. After all, people that are different would never talk to each other.

This also means that when you call customer service, and you are talking to someone in India, that you are actually Hindu now. I hope you have stopped eating beef, BigSid. Imagine the implications!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 AM on 05/20/2008
- Kalima I'm a Fan of Kalima 74 fans permalink
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Sen. McCain thinks it's reckless to be prepared to talk to Tehran but bombing and killing
as many if not more than 10,000 innocents people is classified as what?
I often wonder how these people fall asleep each night and what they dream of, but then
again, I prefer not to know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 AM on 05/20/2008
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McCain has a bully mentality and father complex just like Bush except worse because he has the cult of the warrior mentality as well. Someone needs to put McCain on the couch because he is just as tragically flawed as Bush.

From a review of "Leading Psychiatrist Diagnoses Bush as Ticking Time Bomb"

"In Frank's estimation this was the period in which Bush's problems accentuated as he created his own world, forming a shell of protective fantasy. His rebellion frequently took on airs of cruelty, as evidenced by recently revealed accounts that as a youngster he blew up frogs with firecrackers. Later, as a student at Yale, he became involved in dishing out cruel and sadistic initiation rites, using coat hangers in the manner of cattle prods and dismissing his actions as no more harmful than burning cigarettes on flesh."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 AM on 05/20/2008
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 138 fans permalink

The question for me is not who is underestimating Iran. The question for me is, who has a better grip on reality? While I do not put blind faith in any politician, I do think that one of the likely candidates is far better than the other - that would be the one who knows that al Qaeda does not get its training in Iran, who knows that there is a difference between Shia and Sunnis, and whose staff is not almost 100% lobbyists, foreign and domestic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 AM on 05/20/2008

Truth is that if the damn superdelegates would now back Obama we could start having debates on TV and the weaknesses of McCain's positions could be exposed.

First he says that the threat of this generation is - oh wait - the transcendental threat of Islamic extremism. Now he is saying that the enemy is not great enough to negotiate with because they are not as important as the Soviet Union or China?

Besides saying "reckless" and "unexperienced" does he say anything else?

Clearly these are the manipulative words we are going to hear every two seconds from McCain... in every debate this is all he will say.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 AM on 05/20/2008

Maybe one of the more intelligent Huffers could explain this for me? Soros and his Moveon.org minions got all hot and bothered when a few Dems went on Fox. They got so flumoxed that they scared Dems from going on to Fox for ever more. Now the question: The reason for boycotting Fox was the argument that meeting with Fox would legitmize them as a news agency. Get the drift? If Obama and Carter go off meeting with Terrorists and terrorist States they are legitimizing them. This seems crazy to me to legitimize our enemies but refuse to meet with other Americans. Does Obama and Carter truly bellieve that the terrorists are interested in meeting with them so that they can be convinced to quit killing innocent people? Obama has said that Hezzbollah and Hamas have legitimate grievances. Does that give them the go ahead to kill innocent people? Help me out here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 AM on 05/20/2008
- avicenna I'm a Fan of avicenna 24 fans permalink
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The short answer is that the leaders of Iran, Hezzbollah and Hamas are likely infinitely more reasonable then the people living in the delusional world of FOX news - and that we need them to be in agreement for the world to move together in the same progressive direction for the prosperity, peace and potential of all - not just Americans and their thirst for oil. Secondly, Iran is one smart cookie - they are employing exactly the same tactics America has used and continues to use to make trouble. If you do recall, those "brave soldiers" known as the Taliban were armed by the US to serve as rogue trouble makers (one could view them as "terrorists" if they were working for the other side) to destablize Russian interests. The same tactics continue to be used across the Middle East - and, I know we all have shamefully short memories, the US also supplied Saddam with his weaponry to keep Iran preoccupied. So, it smacks of hypocrisy to call either Hezbollah or Hamas terrorists - since the Bush administrations outshines them all when it comes to terrorism - and Iraq serves as testimony to that fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 AM on 05/20/2008
- Daisy1111 I'm a Fan of Daisy1111 8 fans permalink

avicenna says: Hezzbollah and Hamas are likely infinitely more reasonable then the people living in the delusional world of FOX news.

***

Thanks for reminding me why I will not vote for Obama. This is the mindset of his inner circle of advisors. This is his mindset. This is scary.

I hope someone, anyone, vetts Obama's links to the middle east before the GE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 AM on 05/20/2008
- Daisy1111 I'm a Fan of Daisy1111 8 fans permalink

I'd like to know why the press glossed over the fact Obama's top advisor on the Middle East, Robert Malley, met with Hamas recently.

Yeah - Obama fired him. But the Malley has a long history of being pro-Hamas and his father was a close confidant of Arafat.

Obama must have known that before he hired him. Everyone knew that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 AM on 05/20/2008

Wow you rabid right fanatic just refuse to do anything but spew out standard far right propoganda.

Ask yourself the following simple questions:

Has anyone ever negotiated a peace agreement without negotiating?

Did the British and Irish reach the Good Friday agreement without negotiations?
Was Detente reached with the Soviets without negotiations?
Did the Cubans stop construction of missle sites without negotiations?

Only a fool would think that you can solve a problem by ignoring it and hoping that it would go away. Which certainly explains this administrations reponse to the Israeli/ Palistinian conflict!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 AM on 05/20/2008
- RoseBlue I'm a Fan of RoseBlue 11 fans permalink

This smear is getting so old. Malley is pro-Israel. He was slimed by pro-Israeli extremists because he supports Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Period.
Please educate yourself and spare us the pain of your ignorance:
http://www.thejewishweek.com/index.cfm?zx=viewArticle&c=37&a=4485

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 AM on 05/20/2008
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 138 fans permalink

Perhaps if you try to take an historical view of things. Can you understand why it was prudent to talk with the USSR and Communist China? If not, then you will never be able to understand why trying to talk with Hamas, Hezbollah, or the Iranians can make sense. If you can fathom that talking with those other countries was better than refusing to talk with them, then, good, welcome to the world of diplomacy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:01 AM on 05/20/2008
- BigSid I'm a Fan of BigSid 9 fans permalink

Do you really wanna see the President of the United States go have a sit down with Hamas and Hezbollah without any pre-conditions?

Isn't there, in fact, a difference between a communist country and a terrorist organization?

Is Nixon going to China the same as Obama going to a terrorist training camp in Tora Bora?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 AM on 05/20/2008

As much as I enjoy your comparison of Fox News to a terrorist organization, I would say that is an unfair comparison.

Fox News is not a threat to the Democratic Party (even though they pretend to be). There is no need to meet with people with whom you want nothing from other than to be left alone.

A more accurate comparison of Fox News would be to an obnoxious child. If you just ignore them, it takes all of the fun out of their behavior and they don't get the attention that their immatury craves. Eventually get bored and move on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 AM on 05/20/2008
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Of course Iran is increasing its power and Iran never stop its nuclear program also Iran has wide range nuclear programe as UINN ( United Islamic Nuclear Nations ). So it would not be wrong to say that Middle East peace is depends on Iran, future nuclear war is depends on Iran. Its political influence is growing in Midle East. So who ever the next President no one can definitely agree for no War. War is depends on time and situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 AM on 05/20/2008
- JiminNC I'm a Fan of JiminNC 275 fans permalink
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Dear John McNumb,

War is not always the answer.

"When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails."

(Abraham Maslow)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 AM on 05/20/2008
- fignozzle I'm a Fan of fignozzle 15 fans permalink
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i think it is mccain who underestimates foriegn policy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 AM on 05/20/2008
- MRb1000 I'm a Fan of MRb1000 10 fans permalink

Yeah he is dead wrong. Listen to one of your so called real republicans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYC3jVaDDEg

Tell me what you think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 AM on 05/20/2008
- fignozzle I'm a Fan of fignozzle 15 fans permalink
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i think Baker stated it well!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:18 PM on 05/21/2008
- oldwiseone I'm a Fan of oldwiseone 5 fans permalink

I wonder if anyone has gone to the trouble of thinking through what would happen if Iran were attacked. First of all it would give the Arabs a good reason to band together, second it would stop Iran oil, third China and India would be glad to get the remaining oil from the Arabs, Americal would go into a tailspin, the markets would crash, and guess who has the money to buy it at rock bottom prices?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 05/20/2008
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 138 fans permalink

I think you are correct. I also think the people in the White House don't care. Their world view is so skewed, that reason and reality no longer are what they base their decisions on. I hope and pray that somehow we can make it until the next presidential inauguration without starting another insane war, probably an unprovoked attack on Iran.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 AM on 05/20/2008
- deminmo I'm a Fan of deminmo 16 fans permalink

The only "underestimating" being done concerning Iran, is whether
Israel will decide to initiate a pre-emptive strike, and then whether Bush
will use that to join the strike. For the last 5 years discussions and planning
has been done for just such a strike. Rhetoric between Iran and Israel has
increased, and last October Bush all but said if Iran continued to enrich
uranium, it would result in WW III. Israel, the US Saudi Arabia and Syria
have all done training exercises to prepare for mass casualties or terrorist
attack over the last year. Individual states are doing their own exercises.
The question is when.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 05/20/2008
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How many of you speak arabic? When you listen to news reports that "translate" what the leaders of Iran are saying, are you understanding the language first hand, or are you solely relying upon a bush approved translator? Do you realize your government could be filling your head with all kinds of lies in order to turn your bias against Iran...and unless you speak the language..­you'd never know for sure. In the era of Rove/Cheney/Bush politics I'd be very careful...­because the smoke and mirrors are vast...and we know they are willing to lie and decieve to achieve their wars.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 05/20/2008

In what universe is war ever considered LESS radical than negotiation?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 AM on 05/20/2008
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only in a world where tyrants are allowed to exist and not be impeached or tried for war crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 05/20/2008
- Gemma08 I'm a Fan of Gemma08 10 fans permalink
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The Iranians are not Arabs. They are Persian and speak Persian, Arabic and Farsi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 05/20/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

simple question..­..

How do we ever expect peace in the middle east if we do not atleast try and talk to these people? If we shun them, and then bomb them???

You will not gain peace in the muslim world by having a constant presence in a muslim country... and bombing their people just bc we have the power to do so....

they see this as an attack on their religion, and when they are willing to die for their religion, we have a big problem!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 05/20/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

the GOP should not try and pull the same crap that W pulled back in 04.... IRAN has become stronger simply bc Bush and his cowboy diplomacy has made them that way... we overthrew Sadaam (a nasty dictator.. but many others out there) and bc we got him our of the way, we paved the way for Iran to dominate in Iraq... anyone realize that Iraq and Iran once hated each other??? Now, Amadinejad gets the red carpet treatment when he goes there...

we have to rely on Iranians to broker cease fires or else the radicals of the Mahdi army will keep trying to blow our brave and women to pieces... IT A JOKE!!!!

How would we like it if Iran came over telling us we couldn't have nuclear weapons? We'd be pissed.... I wish more poeple would get off their high horse and put themselves in other's shoes for once!!! We are so loyal to Isreal that we don't hold them to any standards and turn a blind eye when they practice their terrorism.­.. yet we defend them to the core....

Its time that Isreal stooped hiding behind us and fought for themselves­... I am sick of my husband and the rest of our troops fighting wars for other people... stand up and do it for yourself..­. why hasn't Isreal helped us out in this Iraq war debacle????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 05/20/2008
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why hasn't Isreal helped us out in this Iraq war debacle????

Bush didn't want to antagonize the arabs by having jews involved..­..ironic huh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 AM on 05/20/2008

FACT is neither Obama or McCain is underestimating Iran... my 2lbs Chiwawa can seem dangerous when I entagonize her. it doesn't mean she really wants to eat my fingers!?

So much of this discussion is frankly: a really bad joke!

In the last half of this century the "American" people have become so hung-up on their perceived self-importance that even a simple act as voting for the next "stand in" oh I'm sorry... president to pander to corporate agenda is somehow a revolutionary act.

Yiiiiiiiii­ihahhhhhhh­h.... American classic!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 05/20/2008
- noamjunior I'm a Fan of noamjunior 85 fans permalink

Obama does not take Corporate donations
Is there a reason why you ae posting here?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 AM on 05/20/2008
- Daisy1111 I'm a Fan of Daisy1111 8 fans permalink

Half of Obama's money comes from corporate bundlers -same thing.

Google Obama corporate bundlers.

He also takes money from state lobbyists.

Notice he always ays 'no money from federal lobbyists.­'

He leaves out the number of state lobbysits who have been donating to his campaign.

Do a little digging on your candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 AM on 05/20/2008
- briel I'm a Fan of briel 2 fans permalink

All well and good, but the problem is that many people who vote won't be privy to this info, won't care, and/or practice a brand of patriotism that accepts the fear mongering. And unfortunately they'll vote for the old white guy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 05/19/2008

That's funny because I believe it was said today on Blitzer situation room by speaker Rice that next year Iran will be having elections. And Obama is the only person suggesting talks and that was a good thing. She was very informational. Even with those who want to paint a beautiful colored picture for Mc Lame....bu­t in reality he is losing his bearings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 AM on 05/20/2008
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