Obama Or McCain: Who's Really Underestimating Iran?

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First Posted: 05-19-08 05:49 PM   |   Updated: 05-27-08 05:12 AM

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Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely Democratic nominee suggested that if Presidents Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan could talk to the titans of communism, perhaps the next president might want to talk to Tehran -- McCain once again thumped Obama's "inexperience and reckless judgment" for failing to accurately judge the threat posed by the Islamic Republic.

Leave aside for a moment logic which holds that the more powerful an enemy is, the more strenuously one should pretend not to notice it. By dinging Obama for underestimating Iranian power, McCain may have opened himself up to a debate he's in no position to win himself, according to experts and regional observers who say Iran's increased power in part due to the diplomatic freeze under the Bush administration -- the same policy McCain now favors on the campaign trail.

Rami Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute at the American University of Beirut, said recent events in Lebanon -- where Iranian-backed Hezbollah forces recently shut down the U.S.-backed government in Beirut without breaking a sweat -- are key to understanding America's current impotence in the face of growing Iranian influence.

"Lebanon is a great example of how this policy of [non-engagement] backfires," Khouri told The Huffington Post. "When the U.S. decides to rigorously ostracize Islamist movements that have some public or nationalist legitimacy, it's almost inevitably going to lose. ... The sad thing is that this posture is making the U.S. a more marginal player in many situations. More and more people around the world feel they can actively resist the United States. This generates a terrible backlash against the U.S. and really requires a serious re-think."

Vali Nasr, the Iran-born author of The Shia Revival and an expert on Middle Eastern affairs at the Council on Foreign Relations, says the problem even goes beyond the question of whether to talk to Iran or not about bilateral disputes. "It's not only that the United States has not engaged Iran, but that it has excluded Iran from a dialogue in every other arena in which it has an interest -- even in Afghanistan, where Iran is a neighbor," he said. "We haven't served ourselves well, because while Iran is clearly a stakeholder, they have no vested interest in cooperating. Consequently, not only hasn't it gotten us anything, it's made them more of a headache."

Not surprisingly, McCain national security adviser Max Boot sees it differently. Claiming there's nothing the United States can discuss with Iran "except the terms of our surrender," he nevertheless concedes that the recent Hezbollah offensive in Lebanon represents a "limited victory" for Iran. But Boot, who along with Nasr is member of the Council on Foreign Relations, rejects the notion that the Bush administration is at fault for Iran's newfound strength.

"Look, [Iran] has been fairly effective in terms of carving out a role for themselves by providing arms to Hamas and Hezbollah, and that's worked," he told The Huffington Post. "I don't really see what kind of leverage we could have to negotiate at this point. What would we give them? I think Sen. McCain is right when he says we have to turn up the heat, with diplomatic and economic action. Perhaps even military action if necessary."

Nasr, however, disputes Boot's claim that there are no potentially fruitful avenues of discussion. "The Bush administration's problem, and to an extent McCain's, is they think that there is a single silver bullet meeting to be had with the Iranians where you can come away with what you want. That's not the way it's going to happen. It's not the way it happened with China, or [in the Anbar Awakening] in Iraq, or any other conflict. The way it happens is with patience and strategy. And then we gradually and incrementally get things out of it."

In a perverse, self-defeating turn of events, Nasr says, America's refusal to talk to Iran may have left us ignorant about what its leaders might want from us. "The Washington feedback loop is just guessing about Iran," Nasr said, "because no one knows what they [Iran] want. The same things were said about the [Sunni] insurgent commanders in Iraq -- that you couldn't talk to them, they had American blood on their hands. And when General Petraeus adopted a more pragmatic strategy: Surprise, surprise! They did want something. The same thing happened in North Korea and Libya. Everywhere we've done this it's been a success."

Though Nasr doubts Iran will change its own aggressive stances in the last nine months of the Bush presidency, he believes a new administration will bring new opportunities to engage, if only on small matters at first. Similar opportunities may emerge after Iran holds its next presidential election in 2009. As the Washington Post reported last week, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is now musing in public as to "whether there was a missed opportunity" for dialogue with Iran before Mamhoud Ahmadinejad's election in 2005. If that's true, than the real danger for the next president may not reside in underestimating Iran's power, but in underestimating its willingness to cut a deal.

Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
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- MichelleB I'm a Fan of MichelleB 7 fans permalink

Iran should never be allowed to go nuclear, and I believe Obama is better positioned to offer a carrot and stick approach.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 05/19/2008
- BigSid I'm a Fan of BigSid 9 fans permalink

Iran has the right and the desire to go nuclear, so the question becomes, what will Obama do when they refuse to give up their nuclear program?

Many Obama supporters seem to overlook the fact that Iran will not give up their nuclear program. I'm not suggesting that because Iran has a nuclear program, that clears us to bomb them, but I believe it to be a fact that Iran will not give up their nuclear program. It remains to be seen what they will do with their first bomb, but they're definitely going to continue on the path to building it.

Does Obama trust them with a bomb?

Or, is he simply gonna try to talk them out of it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 AM on 05/20/2008

Let us say for sake of argument that they do create a bomb. You honestly think they are going to launch that against anyone? Seriously speaking, a nuclear launch on Israel would be catastrophic to the palestinians as well. Furthermore, if they launch then Iran as a nation will cease to exist because Israel and the US will launch nukes on them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 05/20/2008

Actually, Iran does not have the right to go nuclear. There's the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, which they've signed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 05/20/2008
- MrKINOKO I'm a Fan of MrKINOKO 11 fans permalink
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Wonder if it will be any better than what we did with our "first bomb"....n­amely use it against two CIVILIAN targets in Japan, when we could just as easily nuked one of the small, uninhabited islands off of okinawa to pretty much get the point across. Who the heck do you think you are to deny someone nuclear energy because you think they may create and misuse something cruder than what we dropped on a sovereign nation 60 years ago?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 05/20/2008
- betz55 I'm a Fan of betz55 39 fans permalink

Oh for god's sake, enough with Iran. The Iran issue is 100% Israeli. Protecting Israel when they are the biggests bully in the ME ? Again ? Pure BS. Now they want us to do their dirty work in iran. Make Israel adhere to the standards that it and the US want to impose on Iran. Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty ,which Iran has done. Israel refuses to allow IAEA inspections of their nuke facilities, which Iran has done. Israel refuses to comply with any UN resolutions? These points should be pointed out every time the word Iran is spoken. Iran has every right to defend themselves against Israel. The IAEA in Israel ? The reaction would be spectacular and filled with claims of persecution and divine right. It's absurd the pretense that Israel stands as the pathetic guardian against the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the ME. Israel is the biggest bully, destabilizing, warmongering, belligerent aggressor there and needs to be dealt with before Tehran. Sorry I'm not buying.

It is worth remembering that Iran, under the Shah, was an ally of Israel against their mutual enemy, Iraq. And, prior to the brutal dictatorship of the Shah, Iran had a democratically elected leader named Mossadegh. Until, of course, BP asked the CIA for help in toppling that government and installing the Shah because Mossadegh wanted to renegotiate their oil deal on terms more favorable to actual Iranians. Now, how's that for "spreading democracy" in the Middle

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 05/19/2008
- briel I'm a Fan of briel 2 fans permalink

It is disgusting hypocrisy, isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 PM on 05/19/2008

Bush and Mclame get money in the pocket

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 AM on 05/20/2008

Republicans are comparing Iran to the former USSR. What a freaking joke. What is the matter with these pansy pukes? In a straight up fight with the US or Israel, Iran would be obliterated. Violence and threats achieve nothing. There is only so much you can push someone before tey push back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 05/19/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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That's it! The DimLib answer!
Don't wait for Iran to build up and get nukes, let's tear ours DOWN till it is a 'fair' straight up fight.
Amazingly simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 05/19/2008
- Gary47 I'm a Fan of Gary47 15 fans permalink

Great, you win the argument. Now how many swing voters with the attention span of a few minutes can you convince? That boys is the key question. Because McCain's simplistic nonsense is mighty persuasive to many people - witness the 50 million that voted for Bush a second time. You're going to need a pithy answer that doesn't need a paragraph to explain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 05/19/2008
- briel I'm a Fan of briel 2 fans permalink

:) Head nail hitting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 05/19/2008
- unity08 I'm a Fan of unity08 12 fans permalink
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This is why it is so imprtant to get this primary election over with and done. I pray that Hillary will not try to take it to the convention.

The debate has begun and it needs to be out there on a daily basis. The war has gotten lost in all the domestic economic situation. The more Obama can talk about this the better chance he has to reach the average voter.

Please, to all of the people who have supported Senator Clinton. When this primary race is over, think about what your vote means in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 05/19/2008
- zendem1 I'm a Fan of zendem1 112 fans permalink

In that photo, Senator Mcbush looks very..oh I don't know..very Gollum-lik­e..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 05/19/2008
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Scrotumesque

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 05/19/2008

Hey, does anyone remember when we used to have Secretaries of State who would weigh in on issues like this one? I guess we still have one but she seems to be either AWOL or MIA... oops, duh, what was I thinking, she couldn't be MIA, that would require her to actually have been in the middle of doing something.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 05/19/2008
- LouisPWu I'm a Fan of LouisPWu 4 fans permalink

Why are the Republicans so good at stampeding people when it comes to Iran's military might? During the '50s, '60s, and '70s, America actually had a real concern with the military might of the USSR. A full-scale, all-out war would have been incredibly devastating. But Iran has about as much fight in it as the Idaho National Guard -- and just about as much equipment. But, people run around in circles, exclaiming, "iran's the next Nazi Germany" without even trying to compare Iran's military might to Nazi Germany's ;military might. It's all scare tactics, and people believe that nonsense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 05/19/2008
- Sabreen60 I'm a Fan of Sabreen60 66 fans permalink
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It's called smoke and mirrors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 05/19/2008

sorry for the misspellings

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 PM on 05/19/2008

As I stated over and over again, you only able to win the "war" i the middle east by dtastically changing course....­...guerill­a warfare can only be beat by taking away their breeding grounds...­...this basically means that you have to invest in educatio, help programs, agricultural development, trade development etc. for the people in these communities. That way you create sympathy, goodwill and take away the iincentive of becoming radical. A perspective that provides a future is far more powerfull then any technological military gadget

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 PM on 05/19/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1619 fans permalink
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That makes way too much sense for us cowboys. BTW, even if we don't do that, but just sort of stop thinking that it is our oil under their sand, that itself might improve things a bit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 PM on 05/19/2008
- izAriver I'm a Fan of izAriver 27 fans permalink

Damn, I hope there are people in the right positions thinking about the points you guys have posted here. We've got to elect some people that still know how to think about the welfare of America and the World and not their lust for greed and power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 05/19/2008

Bush and Mc Lame only see the profits

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 AM on 05/20/2008
- nippyfan I'm a Fan of nippyfan 17 fans permalink
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Not to mention..g­oing to war with humans who believe their reward is in the afterlife is an impossible war to win.

We are sending young scared Americans over to fight a war, when they'd rather be playing scrabble.
Then you have a starving child, raised in a war zone, who is taught through religion, you're blessings await you in the afterlife.­..so...sui­cide bomb. It's impossible to win a war with force in this case. You have to be smarter, not dumb with a big gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 PM on 05/19/2008

Exactly that was the point I was trying to make. Military presence only enstrenghten the radical wing of islam. Changing course in defying them in their breeding ground, by showing compassion, by lending a real helping hand, you also plant the seeds of doubt about hate and radicalism, you have a fairly good chance of harvesting tranquility and moderate movements

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 05/19/2008
- Sabreen60 I'm a Fan of Sabreen60 66 fans permalink
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Islam does not teach that you should kill innocent people. The Qu'ran does not teach this. Islam teaches as does Christianity that when you die you will go to the "hereafter". How you live your life determines what will happen to your "soul" in the hereafter. The people who strap bombs to themselves are fanatics. They are not following the true dictates of the Qu'ran. Christianity was used for evil in the same way. The KKK used Christianity to justify the killing of African Americans. People USE religion as a rationalization to due what they want. But I will agree that the fanatics in the Middle East do believe they are in a Holy War. But they are far from the majority. The problem is they don't need a majority. We need to get out of Iraq yesterday. And don't even think about going into Iran. Did we not learn anything from Vietnam?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 05/19/2008

Wait, how does building schools and hospitals profit Haliburton and Northrop again? What are you, some kind of terrist sympathizer? Be quiet and go shopping.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 05/19/2008
- NABNYC I'm a Fan of NABNYC 99 fans permalink

What "war?" What "guerilla warfare?" In which country? What war was going on in the middle east before the U.S. invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? None. The Israeli's act of stealing Palestinian land and building million-person prisons for the remaining Palestinians is not really a "war" -- it's more just genocide. One-sided. No military for the Palestinians, just poor people.

So what "war" is the U.S. supposed to "win?" I say get out now. The only "war" we're supposed to win is the war between Israel and every other person in the region, and that's not my war, that's Israel's war. I think everybody over there can either make peace or leave, but not on my nickel. The U.S. is in Iraq to steal its oil, and may attack Iran for the same reason. Better idea: invest here, develop alternate energy sources.

There is no winning any war in the middle east with 300,000 Americans (150,000 each military and private contractors) against a few hundred million Muslims. Get it? It's not our countr(ies), we don't belong there. It's not a war we're conducting -- it's just a massacre of civilians with no point at all except to allow the corporations to steal the oil and loot the U.S. treasury. The better way to look at it is that this is a war against the American people by our own government to steal our money and bankrupt our country. And the people are losing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 05/19/2008

I think you are not quit getting my point. You are right on all the remarks you make, no discussion about it, but still you can not deny our presence there. What comes with moral leadership is to enhance the wellbeing of commuities all over the world if you are able to do so. By doinng that in the right way you also make yourself, as a nation, more likable and as a result of that......­..more safe.....t­he points I was putting forward was how to achieve that

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 PM on 05/19/2008
- Sabreen60 I'm a Fan of Sabreen60 66 fans permalink
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Real simple: There will NEVER be peace in the Middle East as long as the US has a military base in any Muslim country. You can take that to the bank.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 PM on 05/19/2008

And John McCain looks like an "Alien" is about to explode out of the side of his face, LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 PM on 05/19/2008

I don't know why huffpo scrubbed my comment but originally I said as an aside, Obama looks really hot in this picture!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 PM on 05/19/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 277 fans permalink

Ahmadinejad, who is only the president, NOT the commander and chief has been mistranslated:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 05/19/2008
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 14 fans permalink
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Do some research beyond the propaganda put out by this author regarding the Labonese, I was booted for a month for showing a Zionist apologist photo's of damage to city, town and village residents by the vicious attack on (civilians). These photo's were of locations far outside rocket range (often makeshift) of any terrrorist "hiding behind civilians.­"

I have photo's of civilians burned almost black, but their clothing and hair is not damaged, make a wild guess. I have photo's of children whose limbs after the attack were blown off with unexploded 'Cluster Bomb's, used against civilians would be against Int'l-Law and treaties like the Geneva. Of course as the Zionist-gov will not ever join the IAEA Non-Proliferation treaty, this is not a great surprise. That the US-Gov furnished some of these weapons that broke international law, the surprise is that the US-Gov has as yet done nothing that according to our law is illegal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 05/19/2008
- jkpcguru I'm a Fan of jkpcguru 9 fans permalink
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I keep hearing McSame say "they called israel a stinking corpse and they should be wiped off the map". So??????????

1. Its Ahmadinejad's choice to call them that. Thats not against international law. That is just showing his disdane for Israel.

2. They are not going to wipe them off the map. Hillary Clinton has more testicular fortitude then Ahmadinejad. He wouldn't dare mess with Israel and know that America will annihilate them if they even attempt to try.

Ahmadinejad is just a thorn in Uncle Sam's behind. I think we should be having direct talks with them and including them in regional initiatives. Ahmadinejad will grow weaker to his people and the US will have a chance to whip it into shape while still being respectful of their national sovereignty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 05/19/2008

The issue isn't so much underestimating Iran as OVERestimating a given type of response.

McCain MAY be right about the fruitlessness of negotiation with some regimes.

But history -- recent history -- ongoing policy even -- has already PROVEN McCain's Bushbot approach wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 05/19/2008
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The problem is that McCain and the Bush Administration just doesn't get it. Their approach is to use the threat of force and "bully boy" tactics to gain co-operation from Iran. Aside from "obliterating Iran" these tactics will only serve to antagonize the entire Muslim World. So how does the Untied States go about gaining the co-operation of Iran?

Obama understands that to do so you must first get their respect. And to do this by acknowledging that the Muslim world has a completely different outlook to the world than the United States. And you certainly don't gain Iran's trust and respect by telling them that they are "the axis of evil" that they are untrustworthy and dangerous. That approach has proven to have the opposite result. t takes a much more subtle and intelligent approach than the Republican "muscular diplomacy" to achieve anything productive. In fact, the Republican approach to solving these difficult and complex issues is quite frankly childish and immature. They belong on the playground, not in the world of international diplomacy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 05/19/2008
- cubs325 I'm a Fan of cubs325 16 fans permalink

McCain's FP is simple and unsophisticated, Obama's is insightful, understanding and intelligent

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 05/19/2008
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