Obama Or McCain: Who's Really Underestimating Iran?

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First Posted: 05-19-08 05:49 PM   |   Updated: 05-27-08 05:12 AM

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Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely Democratic nominee suggested that if Presidents Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan could talk to the titans of communism, perhaps the next president might want to talk to Tehran -- McCain once again thumped Obama's "inexperience and reckless judgment" for failing to accurately judge the threat posed by the Islamic Republic.

Leave aside for a moment logic which holds that the more powerful an enemy is, the more strenuously one should pretend not to notice it. By dinging Obama for underestimating Iranian power, McCain may have opened himself up to a debate he's in no position to win himself, according to experts and regional observers who say Iran's increased power in part due to the diplomatic freeze under the Bush administration -- the same policy McCain now favors on the campaign trail.

Rami Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute at the American University of Beirut, said recent events in Lebanon -- where Iranian-backed Hezbollah forces recently shut down the U.S.-backed government in Beirut without breaking a sweat -- are key to understanding America's current impotence in the face of growing Iranian influence.

"Lebanon is a great example of how this policy of [non-engagement] backfires," Khouri told The Huffington Post. "When the U.S. decides to rigorously ostracize Islamist movements that have some public or nationalist legitimacy, it's almost inevitably going to lose. ... The sad thing is that this posture is making the U.S. a more marginal player in many situations. More and more people around the world feel they can actively resist the United States. This generates a terrible backlash against the U.S. and really requires a serious re-think."

Vali Nasr, the Iran-born author of The Shia Revival and an expert on Middle Eastern affairs at the Council on Foreign Relations, says the problem even goes beyond the question of whether to talk to Iran or not about bilateral disputes. "It's not only that the United States has not engaged Iran, but that it has excluded Iran from a dialogue in every other arena in which it has an interest -- even in Afghanistan, where Iran is a neighbor," he said. "We haven't served ourselves well, because while Iran is clearly a stakeholder, they have no vested interest in cooperating. Consequently, not only hasn't it gotten us anything, it's made them more of a headache."

Not surprisingly, McCain national security adviser Max Boot sees it differently. Claiming there's nothing the United States can discuss with Iran "except the terms of our surrender," he nevertheless concedes that the recent Hezbollah offensive in Lebanon represents a "limited victory" for Iran. But Boot, who along with Nasr is member of the Council on Foreign Relations, rejects the notion that the Bush administration is at fault for Iran's newfound strength.

"Look, [Iran] has been fairly effective in terms of carving out a role for themselves by providing arms to Hamas and Hezbollah, and that's worked," he told The Huffington Post. "I don't really see what kind of leverage we could have to negotiate at this point. What would we give them? I think Sen. McCain is right when he says we have to turn up the heat, with diplomatic and economic action. Perhaps even military action if necessary."

Nasr, however, disputes Boot's claim that there are no potentially fruitful avenues of discussion. "The Bush administration's problem, and to an extent McCain's, is they think that there is a single silver bullet meeting to be had with the Iranians where you can come away with what you want. That's not the way it's going to happen. It's not the way it happened with China, or [in the Anbar Awakening] in Iraq, or any other conflict. The way it happens is with patience and strategy. And then we gradually and incrementally get things out of it."

In a perverse, self-defeating turn of events, Nasr says, America's refusal to talk to Iran may have left us ignorant about what its leaders might want from us. "The Washington feedback loop is just guessing about Iran," Nasr said, "because no one knows what they [Iran] want. The same things were said about the [Sunni] insurgent commanders in Iraq -- that you couldn't talk to them, they had American blood on their hands. And when General Petraeus adopted a more pragmatic strategy: Surprise, surprise! They did want something. The same thing happened in North Korea and Libya. Everywhere we've done this it's been a success."

Though Nasr doubts Iran will change its own aggressive stances in the last nine months of the Bush presidency, he believes a new administration will bring new opportunities to engage, if only on small matters at first. Similar opportunities may emerge after Iran holds its next presidential election in 2009. As the Washington Post reported last week, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is now musing in public as to "whether there was a missed opportunity" for dialogue with Iran before Mamhoud Ahmadinejad's election in 2005. If that's true, than the real danger for the next president may not reside in underestimating Iran's power, but in underestimating its willingness to cut a deal.

Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
Before commencing his economic address in Chicago this morning, Sen. John McCain took a quick detour through Iran. Responding to remarks made in Oregon by Barack Obama on Sunday -- in which the likely...
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- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 14 fans permalink
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Actually this statement is only half true "Yep, you know it .... Bin Laden was used by us to hold that nation from the commies! You "talk" to enemies ... ya don't arm them!"

Afghanistan in the early 70s was leaning toward Russia as protector, with leadership of Afghan sympathetic with Russia.

The US-Empire (called Shadow-gov) decided that as this was the case, setting up the Afghan-population to be killed in war with Russia would be another "Just War." So the sleazey SOB's rounded up radical (non-Islamic) people like Osama bin Laden to give Russia their Vietnam, and so with mass killings weaken Russia.

Yes the Covert-CIA used US-taxes and their drug-money on account in the BCCI-bank to finance, arm and train these "Freedom Fighters", the result almost destroyed entirely Afghanistan... I suppose being written off as collateral. Trivia, the first man to use poison gas on Iraqi was Winston Churchill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 05/19/2008

McCain doesn't know a damn thing about foreign policy, he has repeatedly made that abundantly clear when speaking on the subject, especially when it comes to Middle East policy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 PM on 05/19/2008
- DeWayne I'm a Fan of DeWayne 14 fans permalink
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The title of this piece gives away the purpose (pre-determined), indeed who has (overestimated) the danger of Iran.

Let me put it this way, every US-Corp-Gov has made felicitious charge's against Iran or the Iran President to date, the Corp-Gov Empire here in America have been caught extremely embellishing their manufactured propaganda, and were documented to be lying through their teeth.

Iran is an immediate danger to no one, unless some half-wit does more than send the saboteurs (recently caught) that our Covert-CIA had in Iran apparently to kill innocent people to be blamed on 'Islamofascistterrorists' as Bush-mouth would say.

Please propagandist's, if your going to slander people for the Fascist's now in power in this country, try being less obvious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 05/19/2008

The invasion of Iraq makes it easier to recruit more people to carry out suicide attack.
Men, women, young, old. All the recruiters have to do is just show 30 seconds of horror. And tell them America did it. Iran is stronger than it was 8 years ago, thanks to George Bush. And Mcflipper is gladly taking the torch to stay the course.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 PM on 05/19/2008
- zull2 I'm a Fan of zull2 40 fans permalink
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The problem with freezing countries out diplomatically is really a simple matter of disrespect. If a country was taking actions that angered the American people, or even just insulted our President, no matter how much we dislike him...then refused to speak to us because we were all, in their eyes, evil, it would make Americans furious. Ahmadinejad wasn't popular in Iran until Bush made him popular. By refusing diplomacy, and by painting the country, and not their leadership, as part of an "axis of evil", the people of Iran became more nationalistic, and Ahmadinejad's popularity grew as a result. By freezing those people and their leader out, this government has only prolonged that sense of nationalism in Iran that is keeping leaders such as Ahmadinejad in power. The other side of that policy is because it's such an obviously stupid policy, it also directly undermines the nationalistic pride of informed Americans, the sorts of people who make the money that keeps the economy going.

That is why John McCain will lose a debate on his foreign policy, and he knows it too. He's taken up the Bush foreign policy not because he believes in it, but because he felt it was the most politically expedient and he thought he could use it to draw a line between himself and Barack Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 05/19/2008

Also don't forget that the more moderate conservative president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani wanted to open diplomacy with the US and was rebuffed, thus laying the path for the nutcase Ahmdinejad's win.. thank god he is not very popular and we can hope and pray he will not be re-elected in 2009.. of course.. I hope that we don't get an even crazier one!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 05/19/2008

Let's hope Obama is consistent then with his policy. If he's going to sit down with Ahmadinejad, then he'd better sit down with the leader of Hamas as well since Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinians. Honestly, if you truly want to take away a huge source of anger in the Mideast, then the US needs to be fairer in their Israel/Palestine dealings. And so far we've treated the democratically elected party as a pariah. So will Obama sit down with Hamas unconditionally as he will with Iran? If not, then he's a hypocrite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 05/19/2008

what is the difference between Somalia and Iraq? somalia doesn't have OIL. Thats what McCain said in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcPpZEs4t0&feature=related

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 05/19/2008
- S1m0n I'm a Fan of S1m0n 104 fans permalink
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"When the U.S. decides to rigorously ostracize Islamist movements that have some public or nationalist legitimacy, it's almost inevitably going to lose..."

Exactly. The shi'ah who back Hezbollah constitute the largest bloc in Lebanese demography; a plurality of voters and citizens. However, the Lebanese power-sharing constitution premanently restricts them to a third-place share of power because of changes in birthrates and (especially) emigration) over the decades since the deal was made.

When the US compounded this inequity by urging the lebanese government to freeze the Shiah out of power, events like this week's Hezbollah 'uprising' against what they see as an illegitimate government became inevitable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 05/19/2008
- TheShadow I'm a Fan of TheShadow 12 fans permalink

Mr. Flip Flop can't even keep his bearings straight: Why would you trust this guy and his policy makers to get anything correct when it comes to foreign affairs?

McCain should just reitire from politics and enjoy his great grandchildren while he can still barely remember their names.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 PM on 05/19/2008

Clearly, McCain is the biggest loser here. I am not talking about NBC’s reality show.
Not talking to your enemies is not a good foreign policy. You have to engage in some kind of dialogue. You cannot just call them axis of evil and expect them to listen to you. Do you think people in Asia, Africa and South America care what America say about them? When those people ask some kind of help from America, America comes up with a 20-point plan. If you do not do as what i say, you will not get help. That was America’s foreign policy then and that is America's foreign policy now. America is not playing the mind game; America is play the tough game and that will not get us anywhere. Those people have much more respect to China than America.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 PM on 05/19/2008

Mr. McCain, this is a war that you will lose. We have to talk to our enimies. No nation leader like to be bullied and like Castro, some of them will say "death before dishonor". If we had been talking with our enemies all along we may not have stopped them but we might have understood their frame of reference better. I don't need to be a captured war hero to decipher that.

Charm, Ca,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 PM on 05/19/2008
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Obama hit a home run with this issue at a town hall in Billings, MT earlier today. It is now obvious he is being easy on Clinton because she's a fellow Democrat. It was really impressive. McCain is in for a long ride in the GE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 05/19/2008

I always said he didn't want to rip into another Democrat. Wish she'd felt the same way. At least McCain and the GOP were feeling comfortable that he'd just roll over. They're surprised now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:08 PM on 05/19/2008
- gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 243 fans permalink

True. And, Obama is the personification of a well-tempered gentleman ... perhaps Hillary never met one of them ... why Obama even steadied her chair and she removed her fat butt-butt!

Anyway, it's on ... the GE is on and it's man-ta-man ... some actual balls ... well 2 and 1/2 ... geriatrics understood!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:43 PM on 05/19/2008

Agreed.. I got to watch the Billings speech and it was awesome.. the most detailed speech yet... this is just a prelim on what the GE strategy is going to be.. NAIL them with facts!!!! I just love facts.. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 05/19/2008
- realtalk I'm a Fan of realtalk 13 fans permalink

McCAIN'S Foreign Policy expert was on CNN, and he COULD NOT explain what John McCain's plans were when it comes to dealing with Iran. When asked if John McCain will talk to Iran, the man said that McCain would not, THEN when asked if McCain would go to war with Iran, the man said he would not. So Wolfee kept asking how is McCain planning to deal with Iran, and the man just could not give an answer.

McCain has NO PLAN PEOPLE!! NO PLAN!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 05/19/2008
- harriscrl3 I'm a Fan of harriscrl3 191 fans permalink

Unbelieveable McCain is just running on the status quo. If they want to find out what McCain's plan is they should be talking to Bush's foreign policy advisor thats the best way of finding out what McCains plan is.

I personally think McCAin bought into the hype that Obama is an empty suit that is naive and have no clue an idealist with his head in the clouds. And he thought that at the most crucial point in our nations history he can skate on that without having any plans about the econmy or about foreign policy. If anyone is suffering buyers remorse I think its the republicans that voted for McCain because I think they got duped into thinking that he is the strongest candidate Vs any of the democrats. He has no vision for this country other than the fantasy he pulled out of the air a week ago that says the Iraq war will be ended in 4 years and the troops will be coming home victorious. How he plans on doing it NO CLUE. WTF the fact that this guy could be the next CIC is terrifying to me.

Carol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 05/19/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 232 fans permalink

If hope you are right. The other possibility is that the plan involved immediate invasion and/or nuclear weapons and they simply won't admit it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 05/19/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1670 fans permalink
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Iran poses no threat to any country, let alone to a nuclear power like Israel or to the only superpower.

There are the following two reasons why U.S. would like to attack Iran:

(1) Iran has the world’s third largest known oil reserve and second largest natural gas reserve. U.S. would like American corporations controlling their oil and gas.
(2) Israel would like to maintain its immense military superiority in the region, and be able to attack any country at will, without major repercussions.

There have been three major charges against Iran:

(1) Nuclear weapons development – Recently debunked by our NIE.
(2) Weapons supplied to insurgents in Iraq – Debunked ( http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8957 )
(3) Support of “terrorist” organizations – this is nebulous for two reasons. First, one has to define what “support” means. Second, it mainly refers to Hezbollah and Hamas. It is highly questionable to label either of those as “terrorist” organizations based on their opposition to illegal Israeli occupation in the Middle East.

Even if (3) is accepted, it does not by itself justify militray action against Iran. And neither does Ahmadinejad’s dislike of Israel.

Overall, the whole Bush-McCain case against Iran is bunk. It is just another fraud, like the Iraq fraud, being perpetrated on behalf of U.S. corporations and, in this case, to please Israel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 05/19/2008
- S1m0n I'm a Fan of S1m0n 104 fans permalink
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While we're defining things, it's worth noting that "terrorist" is as indefinable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 05/19/2008
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Anyone who is actually alarmed about the threat of Iran should take a quick look at these two sites.

1. http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/131-us-states-renamed-for-countries-with-similar-gdps/
The economy of Iran is equal to the economy of Alabama and only 2.5% of that is military budget as opposed to the US whose military budget exceed the rest of the world's military budget combined.

2. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html
This is the official CIA web page describing Iran. It details just how backward a nation with which we are AFRAID to negotiate. This is the equivalent of King Kong fearing Curious George.

The US policy of not negotiating with a country that we could actually subvert through peaceful interaction and diplomacy has to be the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people. The Republicans are using Iran in the same way the Mullahs use the US to create an enemy in order to hold their populace in fear and submissiveness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 PM on 05/19/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1670 fans permalink
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"In his confirmation hearings, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates offered his own scenario for the aftermath of such an assault:

"It's always awkward to talk about hypotheticals in this case. But I think that while Iran cannot attack us directly militarily, I think that their capacity to potentially close off the Persian Gulf to all exports of oil, their potential to unleash a significant wave of terror both in the - well, in the Middle East and in Europe and even here in this country is very real… Their ability to get Hezbollah to further destabilize Lebanon I think is very real. So I think that while their ability to retaliate against us in a conventional military way is quite limited, they have the capacity to do all of the things, and perhaps more, that I just described."

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=164164_

----------------------

Doesn't that say that we should try to resolve things by diplomacy?

And yet, we have consistently refused offers of negotiations with Iran. Why? Because such negotiations would never result in US companies controlling their oil. That can only be achieved by us attacking them. That attack would undoubtedly result in the death of thousands of our soldiers and, as outlined by Gates, severe harm to US citizens. However, the Bush-McCain cabal seems to have no problem with that, just so long as their favorite corporations can make bigger profits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 05/19/2008
- gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 243 fans permalink

Mr. Gates, it was not Iran that destabilized the middle east ... it was GEORGE W. BUSH, Inc.! Get it right!! Our military was supposed to deploy in full force to Tora Bora after Osama Bin Laden remember!!! That man is our enemy!

That village idiot ... little shrub diverted our attention and he and he alone (buck stops on or under that oval office desk where he peered for WMD's) is solely responsible for the destablization of the middle east and the misguided deaths of our young men and women!

Weep about that ... I do!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 05/19/2008
- harriscrl3 I'm a Fan of harriscrl3 191 fans permalink

The doubletalk express is making my head spin. Obama said we should be talking to Iran like we did Russia and China that were much more dangerous adversaries than Iran. McCain said Iran shouldnt be put in the same category as Russia that basically they are not that important a country. Obama said well its because they are not that strong a country is why we should be talking to them we hold the power in the negotiations so our position of strenght should lead us to talk to them. Now McCain is saying that Iran in a dangerous enemy and Senator Obama is understimating the danger that Iran pose. I dont follow the logic we only speak with strong countries Iran is not a strong country according to Obama McCain comes back and say Iran is an enemy that should not be underestimated so then WE SHOULD BE TALKING TO THEM!!!

Seriously McCain needs a psychological evaluation something isnt right up there.

Carol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 05/19/2008
- realtalk I'm a Fan of realtalk 13 fans permalink

NOT ONLY DOES McCAIN HAVE "NO" PLAN FOR DEALING WITH IRAN, McCAIN'S FOREIGN POLICY PLAN ALSO INCLUDES HOSTILITY TOWARD RUSSIA AND CHINA: TWO MAJOR GLOBAL POWERS!!

On March 26, 2008, McCain gave a speech on FOREIGN POLICY in Los Angeles that was billed as his most comprehensive statement on the subject. It contained within it the most radical idea put forward by a major candidate for the presidency in 25 years.

In his speech McCain proposed that the United States expel Russia from the G8, the group of advanced industrial countries. Moscow was included in this body in the 1990s to recognize and reward it for peacefully ending the cold war on Western terms, dismantling the Soviet empire and withdrawing from large chunks of the old Russian Empire as well. McCain also proposed that the United States EXCLUDED China from the councils of power.

What McCain has announced is momentous"that the United States should adopt a policy of ACTIVE EXCLUSION and HOSTILITY toward two major global powers. It would reverse a decades-old bipartisan American policy of integrating these two countries into the global order, a policy that began under Richard Nixon (with Beijing) and continued under Ronald Reagan (with Moscow). It is a policy that would alienate many countries in Europe and Asia who would see it as an attempt by Washington to begin a new cold war.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/134317


McCAIN WILL LEAD US STRAIGHT INTO WORLD WAR III !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 PM on 05/19/2008
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