Jim Webb Speaks Out On Race, Addresses Grievances Of White America

It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic running mate Jim Webb, it's worth taking note.

Webb appeared on Morning Joe today to speak about his newest book, A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America, and to dodge questions about whether he would accept a spot on Barack Obama's presidential ticket. But since the Kentucky primary had just provided pundits with fodder to discuss the ever-popular "Does Obama have a working whites problem?" Webb weighed in on the election results and his Scots-Irish heritage.

The Virginia senator suggested that race is indeed a factor in Obama's poor performance among white voters along the east of the country, saying, "we shouldn't be surprised by the way they're voting now." But he bristled at what he suggested is a simplistic interpretation of the issue. "When I hear people say this is racism, my back gets up a little bit, because that's my cultural group."

Webb sought to explain what motivates Scots-Irish Americans. First, says Webb, it's not a generic race or geographic label, but rather "a very powerful cultural group that's always underestimated, and it's not always in the Appalachian mountains." And the issue is not Obama himself, who Webb thinks is "saying a lot of good things that will appeal to this cultural group in time."

Rather, Webb -- whose previous book Born Fighting explores the effect of Scots-Irish culture on America's formation -- argued that Scots-Irish voters' unwillingness to support Obama is less about the candidate himself, than about a sense of injustice among the community manifested by the government assistance afforded to minorities in the post-Civil Rights Era:

This isn't Selma, 1965. This is a result of how affirmative action, which was basically a justifiable concept when it applied to African Americans, expanded to every single ethnic group in America that was not white, and these were the people who had not received benefits and were not getting anything out of it. And they're basically saying let's pay attention to what has happened to this cultural group in terms of opportunities.

Webb even drew a parallel between this bloc and African Americans, suggesting that their grievances with and needs from the federal government are remarkably similar.

Black America and Scots-Irish America are like tortured siblings. They both have long history and they both missed the boat when it came to the larger benefits that a lot of other people were able to receive. There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

A powerful coalition indeed. If only there were two politicians who understood these cultures, and had the desire and capacity to unite them for a common cause...

[WATCH -- race discussion starts at 4:30]

Comments

[MelArawak]

The "rust belt" or the Appalachia are seen as "problems" for Senator Obama. But rather than ask why such areas are not more like the 50% of whites who voted for Senator Obama from Iowa to Oregon, the media would rather pretend their is a homogeneous white voter. Yes, of course, some are racists but as voters across party lines have proved - many more are not. Yes, class is an issue but not in way Senator Clinton is portraying (essentially poor, working class white voters who are less educated vote for her and *against* Senator Obama). So does that mean poorer and less educated people are less open and tolerant and the higher the education or the younger the voter the more open and tolerant they are? These sociological hypotheses are contestable but worth analyzing to push the conversation in more constructive ways. Yet the fact that the media could not accept the hypothesis (being proven in South Africa even among "Black" citizens from neighbouring countries like Mozambique, Zmbabwe) is that, yes, poor economic conditiions do give rise to xenophobia toward immigrants, and sometimes violence. This is not a radical observation; S Africans are bitter including towards their government -- but the immigrants become the scapegoats.

[GrainOSand]

Hatred comes with degrees in science, law, medicine, and engineering and also come in an illiterate version as well. Dear sister Hillary's hypothesis does not stand under the weight of my own personal experience. I have known the rich and “highly educated” bigot as well as the dirt poor, kind and loving, human being who would give the shirt off of their back to anyone in need no matter their race. The problem with generalizations is that they generalize and thus water down the potency of individual capability and behavior. I judge humans by their individual heart and mind and I do wage vigorous battle inside my own mind to make sure I am consistent in this. True revolution in America will be personal, from woman to woman, man to man, child to child, house to house, community to community, state to state, until the whole country is transformed. Now is the best chance I have ever seen for that to happen, but it is a fast closing window of opportunity and I believe the repercussions for choosing wrong will be profound as well as far reaching. I could be wrong but hold on to your hat if I am not. There’s something happening here!

[MelArawak]

This is an important conversation that allows us to think back to and build upon Senator Barack Obama's historic race speech, Perfecting Our Union. I was disappointed that the media pundits proved so utterly incompetent in facilitating a nuanced debate, especially FoxNews (perhaps no surprise given their tendency to tabloid journalism) and perhaps surprisingly CNN (which can rightly be called Clinton News Network). The corporate media failed, yet this issue cries out for more thoughtful and reflective tabloid. Instead, we see CNN continuing with its superficial analysis, blaming Senator Barack Obama because white voters, some of whom are admittedly racist, won't vote for a black candidate. That is NOT a Senator Obama "problem". That is an American problem and shows that Martin Luther King Jr's dream is still a work in progress. Jim Webb is refreshing among white elected officials who are abled to joint the conversation. But I think we should not ignore the fact that some Irish and Scots are Black, too. May be we can have this conversation a decade from now?!

[Krikkit]

Jim Webb showing up in the news now is a way of "floating a baloon" to see if he would be an asset to Obama in winning Virginia during the fall election. Keep that in mind as you listen to what he says, and especially any attention he gets from people who actually live in VA. Swinging VA from red to blue would be a key in winning the electoral map and the presidency.

Also, those of you who support Obama, I suggest that you keep your criticisms of his positions to yourself for the time being unless you want to inadvertently undermine Obama's position. At least let the process go forward to see if he would be a plus to Obama's ticket.

[HumeSkeptic]

I sent Jim Webb money when he was 20 points behind Macaca in the last election. Since his win, I have been disappointed in him. I will not support him again.

[Mekarri]

HumeSkeptic, I don't know very little about Jim Webb. Why have you been disappointed in him and will not support him again?

[hominidx]

Well, point out some crap about him. You're useless otherwise.

[JJeff88]

Oreanna said - "But I also see a group that is really ignorant and closed down from other views and options. They don't trust Obama's message. Hope isn't what they can rely upon. Hardship and either independence or welfare is their division..."

Logical remedy: (1) educate them to make them less ignorant and (2) open them to the candidate and his views by reaching out to them.

It can't be done by waving a magic wand or showing up at 2 or 3 rallies. It will take time and frequent trips to places off the beaten path. But there's still time.

A digression: There was an interesting CNN piece about one of those "forgotten places" which turned out to be Manchester, KY. It turns out that early in US history, an ancient Native American "war path" (The Athiamiowee Path) - running parallel and east of Daniel Boone's route to the Blue Grass - led from Cumberland Gap to the Great Lakes via branches & crossed the Ohio near the mouth of the Scioto at Portsmouth, O, at Cabin Creek (near Mayfield, KY) and Greenup (downstream from Huntington WV). Manchester was a point along this trail. My point - Many of these out-of-the-way places played an important role in the history of our country.

[Chapmanp2]

Wow!!! Education vs. division...
What a concept. My initial thoughts of an Obama/ Wes Clark ticket are still appealing to me, but Webb is looking more & more like a credible choice for the VP slot. He has years of administrative experience, The military branches all respect him, he has skin in the game, & he truly understands the reasons for division lie not necessarily just in color but in class (what better way to advance healing)???
If we want to stand above we MUST rise above.
Thanks for the brief education & understanding.

[mellene]

Webb is a rational voice. We need more guys like him to be out front and center, not conceited candiates like Clinton, who only thinks of herself.

[MelFamy]

These questions are not only for Jim Webb, but for the angry respondents who are bitter about black advances.
Were the Scotch-Irish jealous of the blacks when Rosewood was torched? Or when the black neighborhoods of Tulsa were destroyed by angry whites, many of whom were undoubtedly Scotch-Irish? How many Scotch-Irish were in the Klan, and how many spoke out when blacks were being lynched in the South?
Wait! What about the English-Sc­otch-Irish­? And the Italian-Sc­otch-Irish­-english, with a dash of cherokee(that's me)? Why is this even a problem today? Why is Obama, whose Mother was white, the BLACK candidate?
Don't look at me for answers, what does a mongrel E-S-I-I know?

[Mekarri]

MelFamy, I guess black people have had a pretty rosy life the whole while they been here . I guess someone forgot to tell us. Why would anyone think that I could understand this point of view? It is as if the terrorism and murder of a select group of people didn't happen or is somehow not important. Do you understand how insulting that is? Now, I am suppose to understand their anger at blacks for being given something that should have been ours from the first. What I understand is that they are just as mean and hateful as the people that came before them. I know Mr. Webb is trying to explain where these people are coming from. Does anyone here see how insulting that is to us, considering all the evil and vile things that have been done to us. Imagine all the humiliation and brutality that my father, mother, aunts and uncles had to tolerate just to survive in this great country. And they have a have a problem with us? No, I don't get it.

[irishgawdess]

This is why I agreed with the Rev. Wright - America is a country of terrorism and genocide towards its own people. Anyone who doesn't agree with me, ask yourself, did I do anything to stop the mistreatment of blacks? How about the indigenous peoples, who were settled in North America before whites ever arrived? They were "herded" off to reservations and treated like third class citizens. Now it seems Hispanics are the latest target to be added to the hate list.

I’m 3/4 Irish. In the 1840s, when my relatives were in the process of leaving Ireland to come to America, the Irish, exp. in NYC, were scrappers and in heavy competition with other ethnicities for jobs, especially blacks. The Irish would underbid EVERYBODY for jobs, which led to hostility towards them and repulsion of them. Just as that is all part of our history, so is the mistreatment of Native Americans and African-Americans. All of these should be discussed openly and honestly in our schools so all our children can understand their American heritage.

Otherwise, I don't know how to rectify the pain and suffering. All we can do is shine the light of day on the subject, and hold our government accountable for ensuring we are all treated equally as human beings. Humans have an innate need to categorize people and things, but we really need to stop treating one group of people as more entitled over another.

[SouthFloridaDem]

This is without question the smartest thing I've heard anybody say on this subject. Webb hit the nail right on the head.

[Marrob]

The race issue is being driven by the media and has been throughout the primary campiagn. You dumbass liberals can't see it because you're to busy blaming the Clinton's for it. Wake up!!!

[Doofus]

Evidently, Jim Webb does NOT want to be considered for Obama's VP.

He's just found a way to demonstrate why he'd be a bad choice, is all.

It's just not going to be 'some angry white guy with an axe to grind'.

Who's next, please!

[EGNY]

Webb is correctly pointing out that race, though certainly still a factor unto itself, is no longer the sole predictor of people’s attitudes. You can’t understand the larger social dynamics without understanding the increasing role of ECONOMIC CLASS.

What the Bush/McCain Republicans really want is to keep themselves and their economic peers permanently in a position of power and wealth. They use race, and wedge issues like gay marriage, to keep the rest of us Americans at each other’s throats, even though the vast majority of Americans’ best interests are actually aligned.

As long as they succeed, they keep everyone from seeing that they're getting screwed, and thus keep the country from voting them all out of power, taking away their built-in economic status and putting a few of the REALLY guilty where they belong -- in jail.

Bush's war on the middle class makes clear that, regardless of what color you are, if you're not one of the super wealthy, your own self interest is aligned with the working class and poor, not with the rich.

We need to make working class whites, as well as middle class of all races, see that we're all in this together. The real enemy is people like Dick Cheney and George Bush -- rich, entitled people who don't really give a damn about the rest of us.

Forget all the fighting between Clinton and Obama. We need to pull together and vote these awful people the hell out of power!

[hillaryj]

I would like to see him high on the list for VP. He could really start the healing process for the people of Appalachia­..........­...he know them best!

[triplbee]

It's true that the Scots-Irish communities and in the South have long been poor and overlooked. But it's a stretch to pretend that their quibbles with Obama are not racism. Let's call a spade a spade so that we can have an honest discussion about this.

[kellygrrrl]

this is not about "white Irish" heritage
this is a very isolated regional group with deeply ingrained "feelings" toward others

I am "white Irish" on the west coast and no one in my family would think or feel or speak the way we have seen some of the interviewed voters from WV speak.

let's get real here.

[PDXer]

If I interviewed and taped the responses of ten average people from anywhere in this county, I could easily edit the content or find one or two to say anything my agenda wants to project. Don't judge an entire cultural grouping by the stupidity of a few ignorant commentators. If that were the case, I'd NEVER visit the Huffington site.