Jim Webb Speaks Out On Race, Addresses Grievances Of White America

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First Posted: 05-21-08 02:53 PM   |   Updated: 05-29-08 05:12 AM

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Jim Webb

It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic running mate Jim Webb, it's worth taking note.

Webb appeared on Morning Joe today to speak about his newest book, A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America, and to dodge questions about whether he would accept a spot on Barack Obama's presidential ticket. But since the Kentucky primary had just provided pundits with fodder to discuss the ever-popular "Does Obama have a working whites problem?" Webb weighed in on the election results and his Scots-Irish heritage.

The Virginia senator suggested that race is indeed a factor in Obama's poor performance among white voters along the east of the country, saying, "we shouldn't be surprised by the way they're voting now." But he bristled at what he suggested is a simplistic interpretation of the issue. "When I hear people say this is racism, my back gets up a little bit, because that's my cultural group."

Webb sought to explain what motivates Scots-Irish Americans. First, says Webb, it's not a generic race or geographic label, but rather "a very powerful cultural group that's always underestimated, and it's not always in the Appalachian mountains." And the issue is not Obama himself, who Webb thinks is "saying a lot of good things that will appeal to this cultural group in time."

Rather, Webb -- whose previous book Born Fighting explores the effect of Scots-Irish culture on America's formation -- argued that Scots-Irish voters' unwillingness to support Obama is less about the candidate himself, than about a sense of injustice among the community manifested by the government assistance afforded to minorities in the post-Civil Rights Era:

This isn't Selma, 1965. This is a result of how affirmative action, which was basically a justifiable concept when it applied to African Americans, expanded to every single ethnic group in America that was not white, and these were the people who had not received benefits and were not getting anything out of it. And they're basically saying let's pay attention to what has happened to this cultural group in terms of opportunities.

Webb even drew a parallel between this bloc and African Americans, suggesting that their grievances with and needs from the federal government are remarkably similar.

Black America and Scots-Irish America are like tortured siblings. They both have long history and they both missed the boat when it came to the larger benefits that a lot of other people were able to receive. There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...


If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

A powerful coalition indeed. If only there were two politicians who understood these cultures, and had the desire and capacity to unite them for a common cause...

[WATCH -- race discussion starts at 4:30]

It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic runnin...
It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic runnin...
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- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 119 fans permalink
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I wish Obama would go speak to the people in the Appalachian region, but not if it's a security risk. However, if he'll speak with Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, he will probably have a conversation with the Scots-Irish. I think he will visit, just as he visited the Indian Reservation in Montana, because he honors, respects and represents all people.

Obama/Americans '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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I believe he has every intention on spending an enormous amount of time there (provided Hillary allows him to).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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She and Webb should introduce him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 05/22/2008

Hoepfully you obama supporters understood his words.... he is saying it plainly to AA's . Thedamn affirmative action pissed on poor whites ( which is true) .... and they are now the slaves in this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 AM on 05/22/2008
- JiminNC I'm a Fan of JiminNC 271 fans permalink
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Wedge issues served Karl Rove style. Nice from a HillBot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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Snappy responses instead of thoughtful listening will keep us divided and conquered.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 05/22/2008
- SugarMan I'm a Fan of SugarMan 4 fans permalink

I will vote an OBAMA/WEBB ticket any day!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 AM on 05/22/2008
- Slagfish I'm a Fan of Slagfish 3 fans permalink

I will vote an Obama/anybody ticket any day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 AM on 05/22/2008

meant to say left-out peoples (plural)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 AM on 05/22/2008

I myself have been watching Webb since the fun in Virginia in 2006. He's plainspoken and courageous. Now that he is identifying with the Scots-Irish Appalachians, I find him even more interesting.

But the two left-out people have more than the obvious separating them. My belief, after years and years of living in cities and rural areas and small towns, is that it is education that separates the urban from the rural. Rural people often have few ambitions to leave home (beautiful home) or to study hard to make it happen. They are people who, if they succeed, will have to move, and if they move they will miss the land and their families (extennnnnnnded) and their way of life. I understand this. But the other choice is a narrowing down, which does not allow them to understand the edgy ways of people trying to move out, move up, and move on.

I think programs of art and education that are local and that encourage local growth in culture and education is what rural America needs. Widen the horizons right at home. Education is the way to familiarize oneself with the unfamiliar. To welcome the new and different and not be intimidated by it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 AM on 05/22/2008
- valkyrie607 I'm a Fan of valkyrie607 106 fans permalink
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It seems that's another commonality between African Americans and the Scots-Irish mountain folks Webb was talking about. Sure, educational institutions tend to be concentrated in urban areas. But African American children miss out on high-quality education.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 05/22/2008
- MaeScott I'm a Fan of MaeScott 15 fans permalink
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So we come back to issues of class and the feeding of misconceptions by the prevailing culture and by an all too willing mainstream media?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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There is something else missing for African-American children. There must be role models other than athletes and musicians; those aren't reliable routes to financial security. Yet kids think this is the way to get ahead, when a CDL, vocational training or college degree is more likely to sustain them for the long run. I have known former high school and college football stars who were working as grocery stock clerks. The fellow who was a self-described bench-warmer on a pro team is now a grocery department manager.

One of the unanticipated consequences of fair housing laws was that the Black community became dispersed. When all classes were forced to live in one community, the kids saw middle class and affluent Black role models. When
Michael Jordan played for the Birmingham Barons, you better believe he lived in an affluent suburb, the same area where Reuben Studdard bought his mother a house.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 05/22/2008
- valkyrie607 I'm a Fan of valkyrie607 106 fans permalink
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I should say, African American children living in the inner cities miss out on high-quality education. I was recently reading an article by Jonathan Kozol, the well-known education advocate, detailing how inner city schools short-change their students when it comes to teaching for higher education, critical thinking, creativity, and all the best parts of school. Instead, he said, school for these kids seemed to be an extended training session for boring, demeaning, low-wage jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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You are both right. There are no role models for the children. Those who are ambitious leave home. At least the city people can easily travel home to see Mama, but it can be an arduous slow trip in Appalachia.

I remember the Great Society was not focused exclusively on urban poverty. It also alleviated stavation in Appalachia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 05/22/2008
- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 119 fans permalink
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Someone asked who will take care of the Native Americans.­... This is from barackobama.com, there are pictures there, they're awesome. Has any other Presidential candidate/President ever visited an Indian Reservation in this country?

Barack Obama held a rally in Crow Agency, Montana at the Crow Indian Reservation. Obama was given the name of “Awe Kooda bilaxpak Kuuxshish” which means “One who helps people throughout the land.” Obama was adopted by a Crow couple named Black Eagle. He joked that he very much liked the idea of “Barack Black Eagle.”

Remember people, if your ancestors did not seek CHANGE, you wouldn't be an American.

Obama/Chan­ge/America­ns '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 AM on 05/22/2008

"Your huddled masses, yearning to be free." indeed!!! Well done, PAposter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 05/22/2008
- JiminNC I'm a Fan of JiminNC 271 fans permalink
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"Has any other Presidential candidate/President ever visited an Indian Reservation in this country?"

Yes, Andrew (Chickensnake) Jackson. ;) Sorry ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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I did some searching and did not find any good links, but it seems Teddy Roosevelt visited the Hopi and Apaches, and of course he loved the west so there was probably more contact, although he may not have been president at the time. We could use a Republican like TR again!

I found something about Bill Clinton visiting Pine Ridge Indian Reservation (SD) in July 1999. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2889/is_27_35/ai_55610026

Jimmy Carter has led a Habitat for Humanity project in the Cheyenne River Sioux Indian Reservation in South Dakota.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 05/22/2008
- SSF I'm a Fan of SSF 31 fans permalink
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It's too bad LBJ"s War on Poverty got done in by the Southern Strategy of Nixon, Reagan and the tag team of Poppy and Dubya Bush! It's even sadder when a Democrat like Hillary sinks to it! McCain. the Bush clone, is running with the same playbook. Poor Blacks and Whites ended up getting shafted together: creating the mutual animosity that exists in the Democratic Party today. The across-the-board support for Senator Obama and his apparent victory in the nomination race proves the Southern Strategy no longer works and the American People are tired of being lied to and are looking for real change!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 05/22/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 105 fans permalink
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We still have food stamps which has fed a lot of people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 05/22/2008

I am an African American and I have never taken food stamps in all my 50 years of life. I was too proud to accept them even when I needed them. I have been laid off more times than you can count. I watched my employers buy up smaller companies then a year later start laying off staff. It was ridiculous, they made a profit and the employees had to suffer. Age 50, and i'm laid off agin and it is hard finding work, no one wants to pay you what you're worth.

At the rate this country is headed where we will all need food stamps to survive. Afirmative Action is the least of our worries. If people want help all they have to do is ask, don't blame Affirmative Action and African Americans for other folks pride. It's not like African Americans received free education through Affirmative Action, they still had to pay for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 AM on 05/22/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 85 fans permalink
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MSNBC reported tonight on "Hardball" that the same percentage of Appalachian whites is threatening mutiny now as voted for Bush last time. It's not racism; it really is elitism. Tere-suh Heinz Kerry or Michelle Obama--rightly or wrongly, the impression is the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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No. It is a matter of familiarity. You have to earn their trust.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 05/22/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
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Earning trust is like earning innocence. i think you have it backwards. You are trusted until proven untrustwor­thy..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 AM on 05/22/2008

Here's a clip of Obama talking about Webb back in 06.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As85WCNjMGo&feature=related

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 05/22/2008
- lobo1939 I'm a Fan of lobo1939 7 fans permalink
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Wow, an excellent protrayal of the country farmer/city factory worker dicotimy that the republicans have used to keep the two ethnic groups divided for generations. In the 19th and early 20th centuries they characterized the city inhabitants, mostly immigrants from Ireland and Italy as Catholic, Papist, fond of john barlycorn and hence unreliable drunks, family abusers and political nihilists and socialists­.. Jews would be thrown into the mix of undesireable urban shysters who used banks, railroads and money lending to supress the sober, Christian, anglo saxon, hard working country folk. Hillary stooped to use this dicotomy as a wedge issue when she identified her supporters as "the hardworking whites."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 05/22/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
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Insightful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 AM on 05/22/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 85 fans permalink
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Did she say "hardworking whites" or "hardworking Americans"? (never mind that the implication was the same in her usage, what was the actual quote?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 05/22/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 564 fans permalink
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She said, "... hard working WHITE Americans.­"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 AM on 05/22/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
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Webb belongs on the short list and packs the kind of punch you want in a fight.

He could help win the prize, but after winning what would be his role?

I think he may be a more forceful voice outside the WH, after all a VP is very limited in his duties.

Since he is such a strong voice - VP may actually reduce his effectiveness.

Just a thought.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 05/22/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 85 fans permalink
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Obama can win VA without him.

And now it looks like all the big talk of redrawing the map was just that--big talk. We need OH, PA, and FL. And if McCain picks Romney, a Michigan loss is a looming nightmare.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 AM on 05/22/2008

GET REAL!!! LOL

What the @#% has Mittens done for Michigan lately?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Way off. Obama doesn't need Florida. He doesn't even need Ohio. He can win with combinations of the following:


Nevada
Colorado
Virginia
Missouri
Iowa
New Mexico
New Hampshire
Wisconsin

There are even opportunities for him in North Carolina and Georgia.

Or, he can win the Kerry states plus Ohio.

Or win Kerry states plus Florida.

Hillary has only those 2 last options.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Not to mention, Mormonism is taking a hit right now in the news.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 AM on 05/22/2008
- uheardme I'm a Fan of uheardme 10 fans permalink

Michigan is blue with or without Romney. You people should stop parroting the talking airheads on TV.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 AM on 05/22/2008
- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 119 fans permalink
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Maybe the role of VP can be redefined along with everything else in Washington, D.C.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 AM on 05/22/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
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There will be no co-presidency. The VP has gotten too big ll under Chaney. The role is likely to be reduced.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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I have family that lives in Rockbridge county Virginia - heart of Appalachia - and Obama won the county during the Virginia primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 05/22/2008
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Way to go man! I used to live on Kerr's Creek. Those folks were deeply insulted at being called 'Appalachia', but the real thing was right up the valley. The scariest place was called 'Irish Creek", by the way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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My grandparents live in Goshen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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"Most came as indentured servants. Someone in America would pay for the passage, and the traveler would labor in return for a period of time, usually between one and seven years. At the term's end, the person usually had acquired a trade. In addition, some were given clothes and money. Not all indentured servants were treated well, however. Some were handled more harshly than slaves from Africa because indentured servants were temporary help, not valued property."

I have always felt that any racial tensions Scots-Irish have is not out of feeling some type of superiority, but almost feeling that they haven't been given the same chances that blacks have.

http://www.barlowgenealogy.com/Resources/scots-irish.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 AM on 05/22/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 68 fans permalink
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It may not be from a feeling of superiority, but perhaps a "consciousness of kind".

Whatever the reason, a feeling of difference exists that manifests itself in a hatred or distrust of those who are not group members.

The pain is the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 05/22/2008

Webb is a true patriot who loves his country and fills every gap or perceived weakness that Obama has!

McCain has no one of Webb's caliber to chose for his VP.

This a no brainer y'all ... Obama / Webb 08 !!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 05/22/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Not only do they fill each others gaps, but they also reinforce each other.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 AM on 05/22/2008

I have to admit that I've been a bit judgmental of the Appalachian peoples lately in this primary.. This does give me a new perspective on the situation, and maybe a little hope that we can be united.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 05/21/2008

Overworked, underpaid men or women all share the same concerns, no matter where they live.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 05/22/2008
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