Opposition Grows To Clinton's Delegate Cause Celebre

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First Posted: 05-22-08 05:03 AM   |   Updated: 05-29-08 05:12 AM

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In a last ditch stand, Hillary Clinton is trying to turn the seating of the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations into a cause celebre, posing questions of equal justice and voting rights in anticipation of a May 31 meeting of the Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee.

Her call for the seating of all delegates picked in the two primaries conducted in violation of party rules faces growing opposition from two groups of committee members -- those loyal to Barack Obama, and those loyal to Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean. These two factions appear likely to produce a majority on the Rules Committee, thus spiking Clinton's so-called "nuclear option."

Reliable sources in the Clinton campaign, and others close to Democratic Party leaders, contend that progress is being made toward a compromise that would either seat the full Florida and Michigan delegations, giving each member a half a vote, or cut the size of each delegation in half.

Clinton supporters make up the third and largest block on the Rules committee, but they do not constitute a majority. A Huffington Post analysis of the allegiances of the 28 members of the Rules committee found that 13 have endorsed Clinton, eight are in the Obama camp, and seven have not publicly committed, although a number of them are believed to be in Obama's corner.

Since the Rules Committee last year voted against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations -- each state violated party rules by holding its primary before February 5 -- the Clinton campaign faces the daunting task of holding onto all 13 Clinton supporters, while gaining two votes from the ranks of those loyal to Dean or Obama.

Campaigning in Boca Raton, Florida, on Wednesday, Clinton -- who stands to gain 56 more delegates than Obama if Michigan and Florida are seated as presently constituted, but only 16 to 20 more delegates if the compromise seating plans are agreed to -- made her case in dramatic terms.

"[H]ere in America, unlike in many other nations, we are bound together, not by a single shared religion or cultural heritage, but by a shared set of ideas and ideals, a shared civic faith, that we are entitled to speak and worship freely, that we deserve equal justice under the law, that we have certain core rights that no government can abridge and these rights are rooted in and sustained by the principle that our founders set forth in the Declaration of Independence."

For Clinton, it is crucial to turn the issue of seating the Florida and Michigan delegations into a matter of moral and civic principle if she is to gain traction among the members of the Rules Committee.

"I believe that the decision our party faces is not just about the fate of these votes and the outcome of these primaries. It is about whether we will uphold our most fundamental values as Democrats and Americans," she told Boca Raton voters. "We carry on this cause for a simple reason, because we believe the outcome of our elections should be determined by the will of the people - nothing more, nothing less."

One knowledgeable source directly involved in the negotiations said the most likely first step to be taken by the Rules Committee on May 31 would be "to vote to cut the delegations in half with full votes" for each of the remaining delegates. Florida is then expected to ask the committee to modify its ruling "to allow all the delegates to go with a half vote each."

Harold Ickes, Clinton's chief negotiator on this issue and a member of the Rules Committee, said he is exploring various compromises, but he declined to provide specifics.

Even if the Clinton forces were to succeed in winning approval to seat the full Florida and Michigan delegations, the decision would be subject to review by the convention Credentials Committee, on which Obama supporters will have more members than Clinton, and then again on the convention floor in Denver in late August.

In a last ditch stand, Hillary Clinton is trying to turn the seating of the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations into a cause celebre, posing questions of equal justice and voting rights in antic...
In a last ditch stand, Hillary Clinton is trying to turn the seating of the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations into a cause celebre, posing questions of equal justice and voting rights in antic...
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- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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There are two kinds of people in the world:

(1) Hillary and her supporters who are too blinded by ambition and rage to see how dishonest her arguments about Michigan and Florida are; and

(2) Everyone else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 05/23/2008
- Belisarius I'm a Fan of Belisarius 42 fans permalink
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Peggy Noonan has nailed HLC in her column once again. Here is part of her column titled "Sex and the Sissy":

-------------------
"So, to address the charge that sexism did her in:

It is insulting, because it asserts that those who supported someone else this year were driven by low prejudice and mindless bias.

It is manipulative, because it asserts that if you want to be understood, both within the community and in the larger brotherhood of man, to be wholly without bias and prejudice, you must support Mrs. Clinton.

It is not true. Tough hill-country men voted for her, men so backward they'd give the lady a chair in the union hall. Tough Catholic men in the outer suburbs voted for her, men so backward they'd call a woman a lady. And all of them so naturally courteous that they'd realize, in offering the chair or addressing the lady, that they might have given offense, and awkwardly joke at themselves to take away the sting. These are great men. And Hillary got her share, more than her share, of their votes. She should be a guy and say thanks."
--------------

See the rest at:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121148557268715077.html?mod=moj_columnists

I don't know if you a subscription is required to view it.

--cheers

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 05/23/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 159 fans permalink
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Hillary creates her own argument against her receiving the nomination.

After eight years, does America really want another President who thinks that "rules are for the little people"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 05/23/2008

That is so very true.

And the reference to Leona Helmsley. Brilliant!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 05/24/2008

Memo to the Junior Senator from New York:

Stop trying to destroy the Democratic Party.

Stop talking to your imaginary delegates from Michigan and Florida.

Stop voting for wars started by delusional, Jesus-freak, pseudo-cowboys.

Stop cleaning out the pantsuit aisle at Nordstrom.

You lost. It's over. Go home. I would add "while you still have some dignity," but that train left the station a long time ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 05/23/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

Make that "...delusional, PSEUDO Jesus-freak, pseudo-cowboys." Because if the religious RightWing-nuts thought Bush and Co. were on their side because they actually took them seriously, they now know they were sorely mistaken. And, let's not forget the millions of decent but misguided & misled people, who happen to be Christians, who thought they were doing the right thing voting for Bush. They now know better, as well. They were HAD.

These days, they're interested in things like protecting the environment. That, by the way, explains why McBush has come out strongly rejecting Bush's environmental policy in favor of doing something about Global Warming. And, you thought McBush was sincere about his environmental concern.... Yah!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 05/23/2008

Yes,please,take your over the hill presidential spouse that you've been gravy training off for the last 10 years AND GO AWAY. Your time was in the 90's with Bill and those days are over.
I worked for and supported Bill Clinton in both elections.I never once voted for you and your fond remembrances of the " Way it Was " are great but it is a new century and time now. Your stated role in those " Good Ole Days" have proven be just a bit,well, a stretch of the truth..Duck here comes some sniper fire.
You and your minnions agreed to not count these primaries...oh yeah...that was before when you thought you'd be coronated Queen for a Day on SuperTuesday. In fact, Terry McCauliffe-your campaign manager and then DNC Chairman-told Michigan democrats in 2004 that their primary would not count if they moved it up in front of Iowa and Newhampshire. You agreed...now show some moral fiber and own up to it. Besides, I'd be pretty embarrassed to be scorching the earth and the party over a primary where I was the only real candidate on the ballot and only got 55% of the vote. What does that say,Uncommited almost beat you. It is over. Learn from Ted Kennedy after his defeat in 1980.Go back to the Senate and dedicate yourself to becoming a real champion of your followers and a force of good in the party and the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 05/23/2008
- MaeScott I'm a Fan of MaeScott 15 fans permalink
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Five SD's so far for Obama -1 for Clinton
Obama may gain as many as 7 more over the MD weekend...
This is wonderful news!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 05/23/2008
- bobdob I'm a Fan of bobdob 18 fans permalink

If it goes to the convention, McCain wins. And I believe Hillary Clinton would prefer to lose to McCain than to lose to Obama. She is as nasty and dishonest as everyone has accused her of being. And she has some nerve calling herself a Democrat. She's no more a Democrat than Joe Lieberman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 05/23/2008
- ccrnjr I'm a Fan of ccrnjr 2 fans permalink

Where was everybody when this was decided, mostly by Clinton loyalist? Even the republicans stripped them of half of their delegates. Why no cries of unfairness then? Just in case you didn't know, two hispanic congressmen from California just came out and said they will vote for Obama as superdelegates. Drip, drip, drip.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 05/23/2008

Rules are rules. The DNC can't allow Michigan and Florida votes unless they want to look like parental losers. How many times have you seen parents say "no" five times, only to say "OK" when the kid whines long enough? This is no way to raise kids and it is no example to set the US or the rest of the world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 05/23/2008

Bill and Hillary are toxic and have PROVEN they are for themselves. This has been their intention all along and here is an excellent commentary from that point of view
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=4917397&page=1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 05/23/2008
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 131 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 05/23/2008
- TIMLHOWE I'm a Fan of TIMLHOWE 7 fans permalink

I HAVE WORKED IN NATIONAL CAMPAIGNS AND IN AND FOR THE NATIONAL MEDIA...

This is far from over though.

This is where this all has been leading since the Clinton team of Sosnick, Craig Smith, Maggie Williams and Ickes took over from the catatonic pair of Patty Doyle and Penn.

Since then we have won every state we needed to win - leading by 500,000 votes since feb.

When Obamas lawyer stopped the mi revote - over the amazing reasoning that it was unfair that those who had already voted in the gop primary couldnt vote AGAIN in the revoted dem primary - I saw this could be their campaign's fatal mistake...

But only 'IF' Hillary was able to win TX,OH,IN,KY, WV...

Well...it seems she has....and since Obama stopped the MI revote - we now will fight to count that state as voted. There can be no "compromise". The Obama campaign already showed this, the revote was the frigging compromise!

Because of Bauer's dirty dealing -Hillary gets ALL her MI delegates and then we fight over the uncommitted!

This was and is the plan folks! The media dont get it - but this is why she has fought on - not to maybe be vp as the fools keep suggesting - but to get the majority of votes in the primaries and winning over the SDs.

The media may be with O'barry - but the wind and the tidal change is with US!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 05/23/2008

The media has been more than kind saying Senator Clinton has run a great campaign. She has run a awful campaign. Remember she was the front runner who would end this on super Tuesday? She was a bad candidate that went all over the place message wise, and who squandered money and is now on the way to squandering her personal reputation. Why should she be rewarded for having a 30 point lead in a game and losing. This moving of the goal posts should end. The superdelagates should not give her a chance to do in the general election what she did to her primary campaign. Not the media not Obama but Hillary is responsible for being where she is. A loss is a loss. A close loss is still a loss.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 05/23/2008
- Tommygun264 I'm a Fan of Tommygun264 237 fans permalink
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What color is the sky in the world where Hillary Clinton is winning, TIMLHOWE?

She only leads in the popular vote if you count Michigsn and Florida - the two states Hilary agreed not to count, until it worked in her favor. How you can claim victory in Michigan when Senator Obama wasn't even on the ballot is beyond belief. And how do you square Senator Clinton's rhetoric about the Michigan votes counting today when she agreed they wouldn't count back in February? Let me guess - that never happened.

BTW - Senator Obama won more delegates in Texas. Here on earth we call that a win for Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 05/23/2008
- TheNuff I'm a Fan of TheNuff 6 fans permalink

Not to mention the caucus states that don't do a popular vote count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 05/23/2008
- mairs I'm a Fan of mairs 262 fans permalink
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Then why is her support eroding in every demographic? Why is California going to Obama now, including Hispanics? Of course she got the white racist southern vote, but she is not leading in any demographic at this point except women over 50, and they can't carry her to victory all by themselves. If all the primaries were done over today, Obama would blow her out of the water, except for her precious pockets of racist whites who proudly admit race was the determining factor for them. The country is turning toward him, and she is losing her influence in the only group that really means anything, the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 05/23/2008
- MarciaJ720 I'm a Fan of MarciaJ720 15 fans permalink
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With the Caucuses counted, Hillary did NOT win Texas. Quit spreading this SPINNING of the truth. She won the popular but not the overall Delegates (which are what really count).

Obama = 99 Texas Delegates
Clinton = 94 Texas Delegates

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=TX

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 05/23/2008
- altohone I'm a Fan of altohone 30 fans permalink

Hillary's vote totals in TX count 133,000 Limbaugh voters too.

Bill Clinton going on Limbaughs show right before the primary shouldn't be ignored.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 05/23/2008
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And voters in caucuses do actually vote. They just vote differently, old style. But not in the mind of a campaign trying to disenfranchise them by claiming they aren't even there. The nomination is by delegates, not by any other measure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

So more people in Texas supported Hillary...but yet Obama leaves the state with more pledged delegates.......Is it any wonder Hillary is considered the People's Choice? She must stay in this race and fight on for the majority of Americans who support her.

THE DEMOCRAT'S FUZZY PLEDGED DELEGATE MATH

(The Math that is so often touted by Senator Obama and his supporters to essentially steal this nomination….what ever happened to one person—one vote?)

Senator Clinton scored decisive victories in the 2nd, 6th, & 7th largest states: Texas (4%), Pennsylvania (10%) and Ohio (10%)....but due to the Democrats’ quirky rules, those three large states added up to a total net gain of only 14 delegates for Senator Clinton — an advantage all but offset alone by Senator Obama’s single win in South Carolina (24th largest state), a net pickup of 13 delegates for him there.

And, to boot, we all know that South Carolina will turn TRUE BLUE come November. ;-)

It's no wonder Senator Obama and his supporters are so in love with this "fuzzy" pledged delegate math.

Primary Pondering....What if ...?
By: Bill Whalen

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTY0ZTZiM2FjYmRkYzdiOGUwZTA3YjdlZTY5ZGZkMmU=

Another Case in Point to illustrate Hillary's popularity overall:

If you look at the total electoral college votes from states won to date, here’s the breakdown:

CLINTON: 308
OBAMA: 224

Source: http://www.diversityj.com/ElectoralVoteStates.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 AM on 05/24/2008

Convenient math, typical vile behavior of this campaign! She is ONLY for voters’ rights IF your vote is FOR her otherwise, your vote is irrelevant; i.e. caucuses! “We the People” only count when it is convenient for HER!!! What a candidate? She is consistent I give her that; an opportunistic conniver from the beginning and now in the end!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 05/23/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

I will say that there is only one way to stop this, write your representatives, either republican or democrat.
She will not stop until she is destroyed and driven from the party. She has already galvanized her supporters so do not try to reason with them.

Please send an Email to your representatives:

Sirs,

I had hopes that I had finally found someone who would be a voice for me, Senator Obama. I am saddened to find that the hope I once had is slowly slipping away.
I had hoped that the democratic party would stand up to Senator Clinton after her race baiting comments "Hard working Americans, White Americans", but to my disappointment that is not the case.

My pledge to you:

I will not vote for her.
I will not vote for Obama/HRC...
I will donate to any campaign that apposes Hillary Clinton...in any elected office
I will donate to campaigns either Republican or Democrat that appose people who are her supporters.

My disgust in the Democratic Party has helped me find my own voice. That voice will be against you and all those that stand with her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 05/23/2008
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I contacted my supers today, and I'm sorry I didn't reiterate your strong words. Everyone - contact the supers. The list is in Adrianna's article today - numbers and emails can be found online and include the words of McPander: My pledge to you:

I will not vote for her.
I will not vote for Obama/HRC...
I will donate to any campaign that apposes Hillary Clinton...in any elected office
I will donate to campaigns either Republican or Democrat that appose people who are her supporters.

My disgust in the Democratic Party has helped me find my own voice. That voice will be against you and all those that stand with her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 05/23/2008
- kylie I'm a Fan of kylie 28 fans permalink

If your represenative is a Republican, it would be a waste of time to write to them about the Democratic primary.

Choose a Democratic senator or rep to complain to. They should be vaguely interested.

Most of the Republican office holders are enjoying the mess they started with Michigan and Florida.

As a Democratic female, it is embarrassing, irritating, to have to observe someone you used to admire slowly, ever so slowly, self-destruct while attempting to smash their better qualified opponent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 05/24/2008

Ah, don't worry. She will NEVER be on the ticket with Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 05/24/2008
- ntmessage I'm a Fan of ntmessage 38 fans permalink

Let all of those DNC insiders go on record to say whether they supported the disenfranchisement of FL and MI or not. The voters in those states will want to know why they voted in the elections that were held while politicians behaving badly suppress their voice and representation.
Rules or no rules, no real Democrat would ever support a penalty the permanently silences voice in an election. Politicians should never override democratic Principles.
Legitimacy cannot be assured unless we hear from all the voters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 AM on 05/23/2008
- TheNuff I'm a Fan of TheNuff 6 fans permalink

Where was your outrage last year when this was decided?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 05/23/2008

Take 2:

Sorry about fat fingers: In my last comment I wrote: "how could that raise her esteem among Republican so depressed at losing control and power?"

Of course, I meant "how could that NOT raise her esteem among Republicans so depressed at losing control and power?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 05/24/2008
- TIMLHOWE I'm a Fan of TIMLHOWE 7 fans permalink

I HAVE WORKED IN NATIONAL CAMPAIGNS AND IN AND FOR THE NATIONAL MEDIA...

This is far from over though.

This is where this all has been leading since the Clinton team of Sosnick, Craig Smith, Maggie Williams and Ickes took over from the catatonic pair of Patty Doyle and Penn.

Since then we have won every state we needed to win - leading by 500,000 votes since feb.

When Obamas lawyer stopped the mi revote - over the amazing reasoning that it was unfair that those who had already voted in the gop primary couldnt vote AGAIN in the revoted dem primary - I saw this could be their campaign's fatal mistake...

But only 'IF' Hillary was able to win TX,OH,IN,KY, WV...

Well...it seems she has....and since Obama stopped the MI revote - we now will fight to count that state as voted. There can be no "compromise". The Obama campaign already showed this, the revote was the frigging compromise!

Because of Bauer's dirty dealing -Hillary gets ALL her MI delegates and then we fight over the uncommitted!

This was and is the plan folks! The media dont get it - but this is why she has fought on - not to maybe be vp as the fools keep suggesting - but to get the majority of votes in the primaries and winning over the SDs.

The media may be with O'barry - but the wind and the tidal change is with US!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 AM on 05/23/2008
- mairs I'm a Fan of mairs 262 fans permalink
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Florida and Michigan will only be disenfranchised because Hillary has dug into her position that Obama should get zero votes out of Michigan. SHE is the one who won't compromise because of her personal selfishness. She is the one disenfranchising all those who wanted to vote for Obama. She is the one not listening to the will of the people because of her megalomania. She is the fledgling despot in this scenario, preferring Soviet-style elections. That is the only way she can win, by ignoring that there are Obama supporters in Michigan. Their voice will be heard, or you will NOT get Michigan's delegates, Hillaryskova, Supreme Soviet leader who wants to count fixed elections!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 AM on 05/23/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

Are you just going to keep spamming the same thing, over and over? Oh, wait, that sounds familiar. What was that thing Bush said about repeating something?

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -- G.W. Bush, May 24, 2005

Typical Republican tactic. If you have nothing of any substance to say about an opponent, just make stuff up. If you repeat it enough, some people will start believing it.

You keep lying, we'll keep refuting. Neither Hillary nor her ACTUAL supporters wants to see the Democratic party harmed. She's done a lot of pretty damaging stuff, but she knows she's reached the point where she can't go much further without putting her own political future in the toilet.

Trolls who just want to cause trouble and keep the argument going between Clinton and Obama can't succeed. Nobody is falling for your crap anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 05/23/2008

Dear TimLHowl,

I've been to your blog and read your writings. To put it mildly, you're just not that good. And while re-posting the same message on huffingtonpost over and over again may get you the attention you seem to crave, it does little to improve your argument. Despite your use of the term "we", I really don't think that Hillary's campaign wants you representing them - after all, "they" are professionals. It's nothing personal, but I'd be curious to see if you might be willing to go back, take some time, and try to come up with something a little better than your previous work. Who knows, you might even surprise yourself!
Good luck,
Steve G.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 05/23/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

Nice. I've seen those exact same words on other posts. Did you guys all copy them from the same Limbaugh Lobotomy Patrol website? Sorry, Trolly McBush-hugger. You're called out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 05/23/2008

keep changing the rules,in your own mind,it doesn't matter.those states should elect better state leaders,next time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 05/23/2008

Why wouldn't the voters punish their state leaders for moving up their primary? The Republicans where smart enough to only strip MI & FL of half their delegates. This is only an issue because Hillary has made it one. I don't hear the Republicans crying Foul. I am a real Democrat and I do believe in Rules. Why don't we just throw out the Electoral College and go with the popular vote. Then Al Gore would be president. I would have loved to change the rules back then too. As a Democratic Society we must follow the rules otherwise we will might as well just elect a Dictator.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 AM on 05/24/2008
- katzooks I'm a Fan of katzooks 8 fans permalink

I know that, to many Clinton supporters, womens' rights feel like a do-or-die issue in this election. Regardless of your stance on whether sexism has played a role in this race (and for some perspective, I invite you to read up on the recent Roswell Beacon, Georgia, article on Obama for a bit of perspective on how ignorant hatreful bias has been injected into this race), there are actually OTHER do-or-die issues confronting this country, which would nullify and make petty any concerns over racism or sexism within the next few years.

Our challenge is not to splinter the Democratic party by fighting tooth and nail for singlular issues, but to fight for the greater issue, which is the recovery and survival of our country from the damage that has been inflicted over the past 7 years. Thomas Friedman well-illustrates the gravity of consequences, should we choose to ignore the greater battles before us.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/opinion/21friedman.html?em&ex=1211688000&en=7b8b78c1acea3d6c&ei=5087%0A

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 05/23/2008

Very well said. Unfortunately Clintonista's are not interested in the good of the country. They are only interested in themselves. Just like her husband who couldn't keep his mind on doing our business in the White House, and gave in to what he wanted most of all-sex, Hillary doesn't care about what is best for this country. She cares about what is best for her, being President at any cost. Most likely that is why she stayed with her sex obsessed husband.
Why does a woman who wants to be elected on her merits, use her husbands name and experience to try to get elected? Why does a woman who wants to be elected on her merits, cry sexism every time things don't go her way? I am a 50 yr. old white woman from NY and I am ashamed of her and the campaign she has run. It has helped me see exactly why she is not Presidential.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 05/23/2008

Barack Obama is on the verge of becoming the illegitimate nominee of the Democrat Party. This is what they said after Florida 2000. Bush was an illegitimate president. Back then, by the way Al Gore, who has established the precedent now of litigating election results. Mrs. Clinton: Do what the Democrat Party is known for: Sue! Litigate. If you don't get what you want after Florida and Michigan, litigate. You can use the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution equal-protection clause -- and in this you'll be asking that all votes be counted. Al Gore, in the Florida aftermath of 2000, was not asking for all votes to be recounted. He only wanted the votes recounted in three counties, all Democrat counties

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 05/23/2008

You are an idiot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 05/23/2008

Word for word talking points from yesterday's Limbaugh radio program. Hmm. Politics = strange bedfellows!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 05/23/2008

two courts have already ruled that the courts have no jurisdition over party rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 05/23/2008
- wolfi101 I'm a Fan of wolfi101 4 fans permalink

illegitimate? By what standard? Most states, popular vote, most pledged delegates, or most elected delegates?

By all accounts, he's the most legitimate candidate there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 05/23/2008
- Gericault I'm a Fan of Gericault 10 fans permalink
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Rush Tool

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:59 PM on 05/23/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Obama Nuclear Option:
hen pledge to compromise on Judges with the religious right. The only issue that keeps the religious right out of the party is abortion. Make it a states rights issues, sense for the most part the clinics are gone.

This will strangle the Hillary part of the party and double the base of the democrats.

If HRC supporters want to vote for McCain just like they did for Bush in 2004 then abortion isn't that important to them anyways.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 AM on 05/23/2008
- EGNY I'm a Fan of EGNY 4 fans permalink

I don't see how you can make abortion a states' rights issue. I don't have a legal dissertation on this, but the fact that it's a medical procedure involving the health -- and in some cases the life -- of the mother leads me to think this one needs to stay Federally protected.

What could be a states rights matter is gay marriage. That may be the answer to these neo con-artists who use the idea of a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, as a wedge issue to get the fundamentalist base to the polls. There's another wing of the GOP -- the limited government/libertarian crew -- many of whom are not anxious to see the feds monkey with the Constitution in order to pander to a religious group. I often wondered why Kerry didn't just take a "states' rights" stance on gay marriage in the '04 election. Would have saved him some grief.

This obviously doesn't really address your grand plan suggestion. But, I gotta say, I don't think it works. Particularly when, as you've suggested elsewhere on this thread, you add in the idea of making Hagel Obama's VP. I say NO WAY to putting a conservative Republican -- however honorable -- a heartbeat away from the big chair. Plus -- holy can of worms, Batman -- talk about pandemonium among several longstanding Democratic constituencies. It'd be an untenable position for Obama to take, even if he thought it was OK ideologically, which I doubt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 05/23/2008
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