How Obama Ended Up On (And Off) The Michigan Ballot

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First Posted: 05-22-08 03:35 PM   |   Updated: 05-30-08 05:12 AM

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Obama Michigan

It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on the ballot, the New York Democrat usually shoots back: "Well, that was his choice."

And it's true. Obama, in addition to three other Democratic candidates, made the decision in early October 2007 to not compete in a Michigan primary that the Democratic National Committee deemed in violation of the rules.

But there is another facet to the story that -- while it doesn't change the basic facts -- adds a ripple to the debate surrounding who is to blame for Michigan's quandary.

Obama never actually put his name on the ballot.

He didn't submit paper work or gather signatures so that he could compete. Rather his name, in addition to those of his primary opponents, was submitted by Michigan's Democratic Party in accordance with state law.

"This was a standard procedure," said an official with the state's Democratic Party, "all the Democratic nominees that had declared for the race were put on the ballot after we sent their names to the Secretary of State."

Ultimately, Obama chose to remove his name just prior to the deadline to do so. And his decision, political observers say, was likely driven by a desire to appeal to Iowa voters (who were angered that Michigan had moved its primary up in the calendar) as well as the conclusion that he simply could not beat Clinton.

But the argument over what role he played in undermining the Michigan primary -- and whether or not his motives were purely political self-interest or respect for the DNC -- is muddled by the fact that it wasn't technically his choice to participate in the first place.

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Clinton, for instance, has argued that, "There was no rule or requirement that he take his name off the ballot." This statement, while true, glosses over the path that led Obama to ultimately remove his name. Indeed, when the Democratic candidates were submitted it was already well known that Michigan's accelerated primary would have difficultly getting sanctioned.

"Did Obama take overt action in the beginning to put his name on the ballot and then take it off? No," said Bill Ballenger, editor and publisher of Inside Michigan Politics. "It was put on the ballot by the higher ups... At the time, everybody knew that what Michigan was doing [with its primary] was in defiance of DNC rules."

Weeks after his name was submitted without his consent or objection, Obama personally signed an affidavit removing him from the primary slate. According to Ballenger, the senator could not have done the same thing in Florida -- the other state whose primary was unofficial -- as there was no state law there that allowed a candidate to remove his or her name.

After that, there were still political options available to Michigan legislators for running a full and successful primary. In the weeks after Obama, John Edwards, Joseph Biden and Bill Richardson removed their names, state Democrats attempted amending a law in order to restore their candidacies on the ballot. That effort, however, died in the Republican-controlled state senate. Weeks later a November 15th deadline loomed for either or both state party chairman to go to the legislature and ask for the Michigan primary to be disregarded and rescheduled.

"There was a clause in the law that said that if both party leaders believed that the primary had become meaningless, and said look, this is ridiculous, this is a farce, they could have canceled it," said Ballenger. "There was a big crisis meeting among Democrats - there was a big rankle over whether the Democrats would throw in the towel. And they said, no, we are going to go ahead with it."

Fast forward half a year and Michigan and the Democratic Party as a whole still are unsure as to what to do about the primary results. On a conference call Thursday morning, Clinton's senior adviser Harold Ickes said that the campaign wanted the state's 55 "uncommitted" delegates -- which seemed likely to end up with Obama -- to go to the convention without commitments. It is a position reflective of the belief that because Obama did not participate in the primary it is impossible and unfair to determine his level of support.

But such a resolution, which will become clearer during the May 31 Rules and Bylaws Committee hearing, seems unlikely. As Debbie Dingell, a Michigan DNC member who has been heavily involved in finding a solution to the primary process, told the Huffington Post: "our group of four is not arguing for that."

It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on...
It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on...
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- CLEDUC I'm a Fan of CLEDUC 2 fans permalink

"And his decision, political observers say, was likely driven by a desire to appeal to Iowa voters (who were angered that Michigan had moved its primary up in the calendar) as well as the conclusion that he simply could not beat Clinton." (from blog at the top of this thread)

This site has a pretty good track record making predictions in primaries:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/michigan-what-would-have-happened.html

He studied Michigan in depth on the link provided and he predicts Obama would have won Michigan. Now that's crystal ball stuff and who knows for sure? However, his study does provide strong evidence that Obama could have contested Michigan and may well have won it. It provides strong evidence that the "political observers" referenced by Mr. Stein were not accurate in their assumptions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 AM on 05/24/2008

Michigan resident and voter here:

Agreed, cleduc. Okay, this also is crystal ball time, but I am basing this more on a simple deductive process that likely led the other Democratic candidates to remove their names (and something just never, ever considered when discussing the Hillary "win" here -- or in FL):

1. This was early, early, early in the primary season.

2. Clinton was the "inevitable" candidate, but mainly based on the fact she was the most well know name/brand.

3. The candidates all swore an oath they would not campaign in MI & FL.

4. Without campaigning here or in FL, the "contest" is a "whose name do you recognize" vote without on-the-ground campaigning.

Knowing no-campaigning results would have the meaningfulness of a political Rorschach test for anybody but the "Clinton" brand, many pulled their names.

I personally know a whole lot of Obama supporters who either did not bother to vote because everybody knew it was an empty exercise, and a few who voted "uncommitted" (or crossed-over to Republican mischief-vote — yes, our hands are not totally clean on that practice).

Being a 55 year old white beer drinking hard working average income Obama supporter, I'm biased — and am not surprised Hillary obstructed Obama's first re-vote proposal: Throw out the previous results, campaign, and let everybody come back and re-vote. If this state's so much in the bag for her, why would she fear a complete Mulligan?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 05/24/2008
- ywinfield I'm a Fan of ywinfield 3 fans permalink

MikeO, Helzoppin & Commensense2k8 - Where did you guys get your law degrees from again???

FL Sen. Steven Geller (who is an attorney) has filed another lawsuit challenging the DNC's decision to strip FL of its delegates, citing Section Five of the Voting Rights Act - Which I also cited in my previous commentary.

GELLER: In the other lawsuits that have been filed, the DNC is correct. The case law shows that the DNC has the right to prevail over state law. Our lawsuit recognizes that, but also points out three things.

1. First of all, the DNC is violating the CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION on equal application of the law: If they [the DNC] want to punish all the states that meet early they can, but they gave wavers to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, which also broke the rules.

2. Secondly, the DNC violated a FEDERAL LAW that requires "Procedural Due Process": Their own rules state that they must conduct an investigation before they punish a state if it's based on what happened in the Legislature. In Florida, they failed to do so, they must follow their own rules.

3. Finally, they told us that we should have a post-primary caucus, except federal law prevents that. Florida is a pre-clearance state. We would have needed pre-clearance from the Justice Department.

GELLER: They will lose the lawsuit. I hope they do the right thing and count our votes at the meeting.
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­____

There ya go - Game, set, and match…

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 AM on 05/24/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 142 fans permalink
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"There ya go - Game, set, and match."

Yep - the lawyers and the big machines that have been trampling the Average American for the last 35 years win again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 05/24/2008

Some possible flaws here: The party system isn't covered by the Constitution. In fact, John Adams was horrified by the idea that the country was fracturing into what he considered special interest parties.

All their bylaws... rules... whatever..­. are not "laws" per se. It's like belonging to the Moose Club or a college "Greek" social organization. They can make up their own rules, however they like, so long as they do not discriminate (much — I am pretty sure the infamous "Skulls" have a fairly discriminatory set of bylaws as may Masons).

The Constitution does not particularly value the popular vote either; this is a representational republic, where the Electoral College is actually who elects presidents, as we were sadly reminded in 2000. (Republicans don't even follow the electoral apportionment model as do Democrats).

Due Process? Federal law preventing parties having post-primary caucuses??? Citations, please (and good luck with that).

The only basis for a lawsuit is if it can be shown intentional individual discrimination was involved where party leaders enforced "club rules." Considering this is the 2nd presidential primary in a row MI tried breaking party "club rules," where then-DNC-chair Terry Mcauliffe told state party leaders moving up primaries meant they would only watch the convention floor on TV, there is little surprise the DNC enforced "club rules" when MI played chicken this time.

Voter from MI

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/24/2008
- tbetz I'm a Fan of tbetz 3 fans permalink
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Dream on. Geller is the fat bastard who conspired with the Republican majority to disenfranchise the Florida Democratic voters, and laughed about it on the floor of the state Senate.

See him do it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE

Show that video in court, and Geller's case is tossed.

If they have any brains, Florida voters will toss Geller at the next election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 05/24/2008
- psnyder I'm a Fan of psnyder 11 fans permalink

He's term-limited out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:48 PM on 05/25/2008

(If the states' punishment was that only 50% of the delegates could go to the convention, would you still sue on the basis of equal application of the law?)

The constitutional right to vote does not apply to primaries. PA was a closed primary and I couldn't vote simply because I chose not to change my party affiliation. That's okay, I'll vote for my candidate in November.

When you register for a political party, you are joining a club. The municipal club answers to the county club; the county club answers to the state club; and the state club answers to the national club. If the national club follows its bylaws and sets punitive sanctions against the state club, the individual local members are not at fault. But they still feel the consequences.

The recourse for FL/MI democrats would have been to pressure the state party to move the primary date back in order to avoid sanction. Unfortunately, it's too late now; and efforts to hold a re-vote have been quashed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 05/24/2008
- ywinfield I'm a Fan of ywinfield 3 fans permalink

MikeO, Helzoppin & Commensense2k8 - Where did you guys get your law degrees from again???

FL Sen. Steven Geller (who is an attorney) has filed another lawsuit challenging the DNC's decision to strip FL of its delegates, citing Section Five of the Voting Rights Act - Which I also cited in my previous commentary.

GELLER: In the other lawsuits that have been filed, the DNC is correct. The case law shows that the DNC has the right to prevail over state law. Our lawsuit recognizes that, but also points out three things.

1. First of all, the DNC is violating the CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION on equal application of the law: If they [the DNC] want to punish all the states that meet early they can, but they gave wavers to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, which also broke the rules.

2. Secondly, the DNC violated a FEDERAL LAW that requires "Procedural Due Process": Their own rules state that they must conduct an investigation before they punish a state if it's based on what happened in the Legislature. In Florida, they failed to do so, they must follow their own rules.

3. And finally, they told us that we should have a post-primary caucus, except federal law prevents that. Florida is a pre-clearance state. We would have needed pre-clearance from the Justice Department.

GELLER: They will lose the lawsuit. I hope they do the right thing and give us our votes at the meeting.
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­____

There ya go - Game, set,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 AM on 05/24/2008
- ywinfield I'm a Fan of ywinfield 3 fans permalink

MikeO, Helzoppin & Commensense2k8 - Where did you guys get your law degrees from again???

FL Sen. Steven Geller (who is an attorney) has filed another lawsuit challenging the DNC's decision to strip FL of its delegates, citing Section Five of the Voting Rights Act - Which I also cited in my previous commentary.

GELLER: In the other lawsuits that have been filed, the DNC is correct. The case law shows that the DNC has the right to prevail over state law. Our lawsuit recognizes that, but also points out three things.

1. First of all, the DNC is violating the CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION on equal application of the law: If they [the DNC] want to punish all the states that meet early they can, but they gave wavers to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, which also broke the rules.

2. Secondly, the DNC violated a FEDERAL LAW that requires "Procedural Due Process": Their own rules state that they must conduct an investigation before they punish a state if it's based on what happened in the Legislature. In Florida, they failed to do so, they must follow their own rules.

3. And finally, they told us that we should have a post-primary caucus, except federal law prevents that. Florida is a pre-clearance state. We would have needed pre-clearance from the Justice Department.

GELLER: They will lose the lawsuit. I hope they do the right thing and give us our votes at the meeting.
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­____

There ya go - Game, set,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 AM on 05/24/2008
- WWJD2 I'm a Fan of WWJD2 2 fans permalink

It's so sad. Everyone has to make excuses for Barry's behaviors. Spoiled child anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 AM on 05/24/2008

"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years, ..........­....and they are still poor."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 05/24/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

The poor people that vote for Republicans are not only poor but dead at this point.

Hello, Iraq!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 AM on 05/24/2008

Remember the election in 2006?
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) U nemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value
evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law
Quote of the Day.......­."My friends, we live in the greatest nation in
the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change
it." -- Barack Obama

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 05/24/2008
- HST I'm a Fan of HST 50 fans permalink
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"Rich people have been voting Repukian for the last 50 years.....­...and they're STILL rich."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 05/24/2008

Sounds like Obama made some calculated blunders. Pulling his name off the ballot to do better in Iowa and avoiding a loss in Michigan..­. was probably not the best choice. For someone who claims to be a "uniter" and not a "politics-as-usual" kind of guy... not allowing the votes in florida and michigan
count is reprehensible.

You PUNISH THE party leader in each state -- not the people of those states.
Obama sucks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 PM on 05/23/2008
- Daniel8168 I'm a Fan of Daniel8168 11 fans permalink

So, leaving your name on the ballot in Michigan despite all other democratic candidates removing theirs is somehow ok? That's what Hillary did.

So, saying that she left her name on the ballot in Michigan because she "knew the primaries wouldn't count anyway." and then arguing that those that said they wouldn't count are disenfranchising the voters there? Hillary did that.

So, lying to people like you and making you believe that she has always supported MI and FL voters is ok? Hillary did that.

So, conflating the MI and FL democratic primaries with the 2000 election, and trying to play on voters' sentiments about that contest is ok? Hillary did that.

Stop for a minute. Go to YouTube and search for Hillary Clinton Florida Michigan. If you look around long enough you will find not only a Tim Russert interview in which a memo from her campaign proves that she acknowledged - and agreed to - the disqualification of the FL and MI primary votes, but if you really dig around, you'll find one video that includes the soundbite of her speaking on NPR in which she clearly states that she left her name on the ballot in MI because she knew that MI and FL would not count.

Once you've discovered the facts, you can come back here and apologize for your inane comments.

Almost forgot - In case you hadn't noticed, it wasn't Obama that said the votes wouldn't count - it was the DNC - and

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 05/24/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

Yeah, because you seriously believe that Obama's the reason your vote wasn't counted.

If you're that dumb, you don't DESERVE to vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 05/24/2008
- Leper I'm a Fan of Leper 11 fans permalink
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>>Obama sucks.
Hillary blows... except for Bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 05/24/2008
- cadawa I'm a Fan of cadawa 21 fans permalink
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There go the Democrats doing what they do best; wrenching defeat from the jaws of victory. This ludicrous catfight to overturn the will of the voters and cheat Hillary into the top slot is even more destructive than their pitiful record as the majority Party in Congress.
Don't they have a clue? If you backpeddle on stopping the carnage in Iraq and holding Bush accountable and your ratings go lower than the bad boy in the Oval Office. You backpeddle on the selection process and voters are going to counted and voters will walk.
What is most distressing is that this bunch of losers are the only alternative to Armageddon and four years of crazy John McCain. This is not a happy country and I'm not a happy camper.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:51 PM on 05/23/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

Hillary signed a pledge saying the votes in FL and MI wouldn't count.

She said the votes in MI and FL wouldn't count.

People who found out their votes wouldn't count just didn't vote. Many of them were Obama voters.

She was in FL 3 times to "fundraise" (also known as campaign) while Obama did not get that opportunity.

Many FL and MI voters wanted to vote for Obama but were told their votes would not count.

Hillary said the votes would not count.

She said the votes would not count.

She agreed that the votes would not count.

Hillary - said - the - votes - wouldn't - count.

She signed a pledge.

She signed a pledge.

SHE SIGNED A PLEDGE.

SHE SIGNED A PLEDGE.

In other words, she lied. SHE LIED.

SHE LIED.

SHE LIED.

SHE LIED.

SHE LIED.

SHE LIED.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 05/23/2008

obama campaigned in florida as much as Clinton. Regardless, a total re-vote for offered and would have been funded at no cost to the DNC...
the great "unifer" Obama... refused. Corrupt, egomaniac

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Whether Hillary likes it or not......I want my vote that was cast in Michigan counted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 AM on 05/24/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

This election, I have seen:

Pro-women organization calls Af-Am houses with unidentified male Af-Am voice and tells people that they aren't registered to vote and to stay home and wait for forms - which would make them miss voting in the primary.

This organization has ties to Hillary Clinton.

A woman invites Rev. Wright on national television to "explain" himself in a way that will damage Obama's campaign.

That woman has ties to Hillary Clinton.

Candidates sign a pledge not to campaign or participate in MI/FL. Other candidates do what they can to pull their advertising and remove their names, Hillary does not. Hillary says, "Everyone knows these votes won't count," and that it doesn't matter whether or not she takes her name off the ballot.

When she starts losing, she screams voter disenfranchisement. Says that she only agreed not to "campaign", even though she was there "fundraising" three times, and coincidentally she "ran into" some crowds of people. Wants to count votes, even though she agreed not to participate.

Rich Hillary supporters want to sponsor revote, makes threats to Pelosi then denies he made threats

Rich Hillary supporter tried to bribe 3 superdels with $1 million if they'd vote for Hillary.

Hillary screams caucuses are undemocratic even though caucuses put her husband into office and she never complained them.

Says she opposed NAFTA, actually supported NAFTA. Blamed bush for Magnetquench, when her husband made Magnetquench possible.

Why on earth should I vote for this woman?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 05/23/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

Wow Sam, look at all these comments.
Not even 500 for the story about Rove finally being called out.
Good to know we have our priorities straight.

It's becoming amusing the lengths to which Obama supporters will use tortured logic, twisting and turning and taking things out of context to make sure Obama is seen in the best possible light and not responsible for anything. The most fun is when they scourge Hillary for something that Obama does the next day and he is praised... or better yet when he is defended to the n'th for something and the next day he changes his mind and then he is again defended to the nth degree.

Yipes,
Whatever.
He took his name off the ticket no matter how it got there.

give me a break.

And of course vice versa... Clinton is responsible for all the sins of the world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 05/23/2008
- Daniel8168 I'm a Fan of Daniel8168 11 fans permalink

But you can support Hillary changing her mind about how the democratic nomination is won? She knew going into it that the contest was for delegates. But she has since decided that the contest is only determined by big swing states, no wait - super delegates, no wait - popular vote, no wait - the white working class vote, no wait - two states that she agreed would not count, no wait - she also has to pretend that the popular vote in caucuses doesn't count.

Please, get over yourself. Talk about tortured logic? How about the fact that you posted on this particular blog, and had nothing to say about the actual topic other than that Obama took his name off the ticket. Sadly, Hillary was the only one that left hers on the ticket. Sadly, you, as an apparent Hillary supporter, seem to have forgotten that her defense for leaving her name on the ticket was that "the primary wouldn't count anyway".

Yipes,
Whatever.

She has flip-flopped, twisted, spun, wiggled, redefined, and just plain lied throughout this whole "controversy".

So, perhaps it is YOU who should give everyone else a break and admit that Hillary is a liar and a hypocrite and that you are merely supporting her lies and distortions because you believe it is the only way she can win a nomination that she has already lost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 05/24/2008
- in4success I'm a Fan of in4success 43 fans permalink

yes -- because we know none of the "important" issues will EVER be dealt with unless barack obama is our next POTUS . . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 AM on 05/24/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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To all the rightwing trolls... you're tireless. Unimaginative, but tireless. The hillbilly heroin addict will be proud of you. 'til later...

To all my fellow Obama supporters­... Senator Obama picked up 5 more superdelegates! We're getting close! Have a wonderful day.

To any real Hillary supporters who see this... I'm sorry you're hurting. We really do have a great candidate in Barack Obama. Please, find out more about his policies and his vision for where we need to go. Peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 05/23/2008
- dr4Will I'm a Fan of dr4Will 10 fans permalink
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stein it was Husein's choice--that is why it obvious my vote in Michigan for Hillary should be counted--your candidate is standing in the way as a selfish politico!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Just vote for McCain as you've said you will and as I know you will. Your too obvious.

Funny how all of you guys are from Michigan and it's your vote that Obama or Husein as you call him took it away. It's never the inept Dem state "leaders" who did it. It's not pledge-the­n-lie-Hill­ary who did it. It's that mean, nasty guy who's winning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 05/23/2008
- bigbenny I'm a Fan of bigbenny 43 fans permalink
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McFlip, McFlop, McFlip, McFlop

GO BO 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 05/23/2008

BO is right - he stinks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 05/25/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Imagine where we would be....if Obama had NOT killed Michigan's June 3 revote.

I believe...­.not too unlike Ohio, not too unlike Pennsylvan­ia.....tha­t Michigan would be won by Clinton by at least 10 percentage points....­.

And...Obam­a would not be able to blow off Michigan in the same way he tried blowing off West Virginia and Kentucky..­...a decisive victory for Clinton in Michigan would have resonated with thepress..­...

The press would then fairly be second guessing the strength of Obama as a candidate.­....

Obama knew EXACTLY what he was doing taking his name off of Michigan's ballot....­.to now be able to claim, "hey, my name wasn't even on the ballot."

....Obama knew EXACTLY what he was doing this past March when he killed Michigan's Tuesday, June 3, 2008 full primary re-vote...­..he could not chance going head to head with Hillary in a re-vote...­..

Obama has been able to game the primary system perfectly.­.....but this does not take away from the fact that Hillary IS the people's choice.

So...if Obama is the nominee...­.."the Hildebeast" (as many of you Obama supporters call her) will have to work especially hard to convince her supporters to vote for Obama in the fall....an­d in Michigan..­..I don't think we'll be biting that easily....

We had our chance for a re-vote...­.and Obama killed it.

“CLINTON RIGHT TO SUPPORT DO-OVER”

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080320/OPINION03/803200370/1374

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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What are you 9?? a Do-Over...­that is what you do at recess when your playing kick ball.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Good point....b­ut would you rather count the election that happened in January here in Michigan..­..I'm ok with that....ar­e you??

The DNC's selective enforcement of the rules last fall really created a huge mess....a mess whose ugly face only surfaced because this election is so close. The DNC almost got away with it....but alas...thi­s is a very close election..­..and every vote does count (or at least, every vote cast should be counted).

So...yes..­.a "re"-vote sounds crazy.....­but what are we to do???? Skip the 4th & 8th largest states altogether­....this does not bode well for a democracy.

And besides...­.the re-vote scheduled for Tuesday, June 3, 2008 was actually going to be on regular polling day, regular polling hours, regular polling precincts, regular polling personnel.­.......so, Yes...... a "re"-vote.­.......but a "fair & square" re-vote nonetheless.

If only everything that happened on the playgrounds was fair & square. ;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 05/23/2008

Pt. A

Why do you think Obama should have submitted to the flawed system in Michigan? Even after it was fixed?

First of all, if the health Department closed down a barbershop in your town because of a head-lice infestation ... involving dirty combs and brushes, and dirty piles of cut hair in all the corners of the shop, would you get your hair cut there? If the brushes and combs remained dirty and you could still see the piles of loose hair under the chairs?

If a tattoo and piercing shop was cited for not sterilizing its instrurments, so that its customers were put at risk for blood-born diseases, and you knew they still had not fixed the autoclave ... would you get "bodywork" done there? Even if lots of other people continued to get pierced and tattooed there?

Or if a local restaurant was cited for having the bodies of skinned cats and dogs hanging on hooks among the beef, pork, and chicken carcasses in the walk-in fridge, would you eat there? What? On a dare??

The system was flawed.

friend9

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 05/23/2008

Pt. C


Senator Obama is NOT anti-Michigan. But too much is at-risk to simply allow the primary to be assigned to Mrs. Clinton's side of tha balance sheet ... considering the history of the problem with that Primary AND the fact that there is no way that it could ever be made "fair" since he can't go back in time and do the kind of campaigning there that he WOULD have done, had the system not been flawed in the first place.

It would be great if the people of Michigan simply decided that IN SPITE of the expense and the disappointment, the problem was NOT caused by Mr. Obama, and that they should not snub the best person for the job when it is time to vote. He's a person who will be the President for ALL the people--including all the residents of Michigan. ... The person best equipped and with the right attributes to make the kinds of changes necessary to get the Nation AND the Great State of Michigan (and all the other states) back on the right track, headed back toward prosperity, with ALL the people benefitting from being American, and all the World reminded of our greatness--IN SPITE of what they may have been tempted to believe about us during the last decade.

friend9

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 05/23/2008

All of you people are making me sick. Just vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is. Or you can sit back and kick yourselves in the butts for four more years of the George Bush/John McCain agenda.
And don't forget to move your 18 year olds to Switzerland or someplace safe so they can avoid the draft and a death that benefits no one.
Now please act like grownups.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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There are Operation Chaos trolls here posing as Hillary supporters and threatening to vote for McCain. They have no intention of voting for the Democratic nominee. Their mission is to sow discord.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 05/23/2008
- ashen I'm a Fan of ashen 3 fans permalink

Good reminder, thank you.

There are actually good reasons to be a Hillary supporter, having nothing to do with her painfully tin ear and poor campaign judgment.

Instead we get a bunch of posts that don't even properly defend Hillary, or show that they know who she is when she is at her best. They just make stuff lies about Obama.

(She used to be a good Democrat btw. Watching her implode is terrible.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 AM on 05/24/2008

why should I vote for someone I do not trust? Just because he is also a Democrat? WRONG!! If this is your principle, then the party should decide to have just one candidate to run, and not many candidates to select one among them, so stop asking people to vote for Obama only because he is a Democrat, and respect my choice- and others too ! Obama made a mistake by removing his name from the ballot, or never included it, whatever it was, and has done the impossible not to have those delegates seated and the votes counted, just because he knows Hillary would be the nominee. Nice try !! And you say he is an honest candidate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 PM on 05/23/2008
- Willemaq I'm a Fan of Willemaq 14 fans permalink
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Wow! So between Hillary "Iraq War Voting, Sniper fire dodging, Bringing peace to Ireland" Clinton and Barack Obama, Obama is the person you don't trust? Really? Really?

Really?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 05/23/2008
- ashen I'm a Fan of ashen 3 fans permalink

You should vote for the Democrat because otherwise Bush III wins. Period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 AM on 05/24/2008

Has Obama served in the military? I do not think so !!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 05/23/2008
- 2lib4oh I'm a Fan of 2lib4oh 10 fans permalink

Oscarp, totally irrelevant to anything. Neither has Hillary.
I wish military service made someone a better person, but obviously it doesn't.
Remember Abu Garib?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 05/23/2008

Video proof of Hillary Flip Flopping on MI and FL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJn4VtgJ5A

so all you Hilbots out there who think Hillary is doing this because she cares about MI and FL are sadly mistaken, All she cares about is herself and ruining BO's chance at the white house so that she can run again in 2012. Why do you refuse to see the facts as they are Clinton supporters? She is lying!

Admit it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

You Know what???

I could give a "flying you-know-what" whether or not Hillary wants my vote in Michigan to be counted...­..

What matters to me....is..­..I WANT MY VOTE IN MICHIGAN TO BE COUNTED!!! As do millions of other voters in Michigan and Florida...­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 05/23/2008

PEOPLE IN FLORIDA ALSO WANT THEIR VOTES TO BE COUNTED !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Whatever you say, GraceJeanJones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 05/23/2008

I'm from FL and the DNC said all that the states wouldn't count. And because of this I and a million others did not go out to vote.

For that reason they should not count, as Hillary wants them to. Thats my opinion.

It should be fair. Hillary and her cronies always like to talk about disenfranchisement but what about them disenfranchising people like me?

When she talked about a redo I thought it was a good idea, but then I found out she wants to fund and control everything. Hillary is the only one causing confusion.

Its to messed up for them to count as is.

Hillary is a liar, at least you admit that some how.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 05/23/2008

Make no mistake the only person blocking progress is HRC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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There is no stopping you from voting in the General Election. You can also vote for McCain or even write in who you want. You can also exercise your right to vote by electing officials that hold the voters interests above of their own. Now that is a novel idea I know, but wouldn't it be nice to have a government that works for us instead of themselves? ;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 05/23/2008
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