How Obama Ended Up On (And Off) The Michigan Ballot

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First Posted: 05-22-08 03:35 PM   |   Updated: 05-30-08 05:12 AM

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Obama Michigan

It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on the ballot, the New York Democrat usually shoots back: "Well, that was his choice."

And it's true. Obama, in addition to three other Democratic candidates, made the decision in early October 2007 to not compete in a Michigan primary that the Democratic National Committee deemed in violation of the rules.

But there is another facet to the story that -- while it doesn't change the basic facts -- adds a ripple to the debate surrounding who is to blame for Michigan's quandary.

Obama never actually put his name on the ballot.

He didn't submit paper work or gather signatures so that he could compete. Rather his name, in addition to those of his primary opponents, was submitted by Michigan's Democratic Party in accordance with state law.

"This was a standard procedure," said an official with the state's Democratic Party, "all the Democratic nominees that had declared for the race were put on the ballot after we sent their names to the Secretary of State."

Ultimately, Obama chose to remove his name just prior to the deadline to do so. And his decision, political observers say, was likely driven by a desire to appeal to Iowa voters (who were angered that Michigan had moved its primary up in the calendar) as well as the conclusion that he simply could not beat Clinton.

But the argument over what role he played in undermining the Michigan primary -- and whether or not his motives were purely political self-interest or respect for the DNC -- is muddled by the fact that it wasn't technically his choice to participate in the first place.

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Clinton, for instance, has argued that, "There was no rule or requirement that he take his name off the ballot." This statement, while true, glosses over the path that led Obama to ultimately remove his name. Indeed, when the Democratic candidates were submitted it was already well known that Michigan's accelerated primary would have difficultly getting sanctioned.

"Did Obama take overt action in the beginning to put his name on the ballot and then take it off? No," said Bill Ballenger, editor and publisher of Inside Michigan Politics. "It was put on the ballot by the higher ups... At the time, everybody knew that what Michigan was doing [with its primary] was in defiance of DNC rules."

Weeks after his name was submitted without his consent or objection, Obama personally signed an affidavit removing him from the primary slate. According to Ballenger, the senator could not have done the same thing in Florida -- the other state whose primary was unofficial -- as there was no state law there that allowed a candidate to remove his or her name.

After that, there were still political options available to Michigan legislators for running a full and successful primary. In the weeks after Obama, John Edwards, Joseph Biden and Bill Richardson removed their names, state Democrats attempted amending a law in order to restore their candidacies on the ballot. That effort, however, died in the Republican-controlled state senate. Weeks later a November 15th deadline loomed for either or both state party chairman to go to the legislature and ask for the Michigan primary to be disregarded and rescheduled.

"There was a clause in the law that said that if both party leaders believed that the primary had become meaningless, and said look, this is ridiculous, this is a farce, they could have canceled it," said Ballenger. "There was a big crisis meeting among Democrats - there was a big rankle over whether the Democrats would throw in the towel. And they said, no, we are going to go ahead with it."

Fast forward half a year and Michigan and the Democratic Party as a whole still are unsure as to what to do about the primary results. On a conference call Thursday morning, Clinton's senior adviser Harold Ickes said that the campaign wanted the state's 55 "uncommitted" delegates -- which seemed likely to end up with Obama -- to go to the convention without commitments. It is a position reflective of the belief that because Obama did not participate in the primary it is impossible and unfair to determine his level of support.

But such a resolution, which will become clearer during the May 31 Rules and Bylaws Committee hearing, seems unlikely. As Debbie Dingell, a Michigan DNC member who has been heavily involved in finding a solution to the primary process, told the Huffington Post: "our group of four is not arguing for that."

It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on...
It's an argument Sen. Hillary Clinton has made countless times. Asked why the unofficial results of the Michigan primary should be considered legitimate, even though Sen. Barack Obama's name wasn't on...
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Bottom line folks, Obama took his name off because he wasn't interested in Michigan because he knew they would not vote for him and he would lose. The people of Michigan do not buy his story now, now that he says he needs us. It seems Obama is constantly changing his story with everything and everyone when it benefits him, when he wants our votes. Again, NO Obama the people from Michigan do not buy it! You are the one who took your name off. Be a man and be held accountable for yourselve and for Gods sake, start telling the truth!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Yes Senator "it's all about the people" Obama.....please start telling the truth!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:07 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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LOL! I just googled "it's all about the people" Obama
and you've been a very busy guy at a whole lot of different sites.
Or GraceJeanJones has been. Is that the code name for the approved propaganda? Are there multiple trolls who copy and paste it or are you workin' alone? You post GraceJeanJones word for word.

Funny, I can't seem to find Obama saying what you quote. Perhaps you can direct me to it, Grace, er,,,, Girardo. Thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 05/23/2008

Bottom line Catherine is that Hillary Clinton is a disgrace when she goes back on her word to the people of Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. That's the bottom line. She has NO morals and NO standards, except the "ends justify the means." Hillary Clinton signed a pledge and said on NPR that "we all know Michigan won't count" in response to the question about why she wasn't taking her name off the ballot. I used to think differently but now it's clear--she's willing to lie as much as her husband did, if not more, just as long as she gets what she wants. The facts are the facts. And no matter how you justify them to yourself, they're still the facts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 05/23/2008
- sf94127 I'm a Fan of sf94127 5 fans permalink

The bottom line is the people of MI have been denied their votes and Obama played a key role in seeing to this. Now he is there sheeplishly trying to get MI votes in the GE.
The man has no morals, he will say anything to get elected.

You obviously hate Hillary Clinton personally and your stupid opinions are derived from your hatred. Its unfortunate people like you are allowed to vote but I would be the first to defend your right to vote out of hatred and blindness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 05/23/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

"I personally did not think it made any difference whether or not my name was on the ballot. You know, it's clear this election they're having is not going to count for anything." -- Hillary Clinton, on Michigan ballot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB-5ot8pNX8 - Michigan isn't going to count for anything, Hillary says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJn4VtgJ5A - Michigan isn't going to count for anything, Hillary says.

The DNC said the delegates would be stripped 100%.
Hillary and Obama signed a pledge to respect the DNC rules and not PARTICIPATE:

"THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton), Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC."

Participate, according to every definition, including the DNC rules, would be to have part or take part of something. According to LAW.COM - and Hillary is a lawyer - participate means:

"to receive a part or share"

Hillary said that she would not participate. She said the Michigan votes would not count for anything. She said that she would neither campaign nor participate in the primary.

What part of that don't you understand?

You don't *want* to understand.

Because you must, absolutely MUST blame Obama. Your very life and argument against him depends on it.

I pity people like you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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And I admire people like you. : )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 05/23/2008

just for you to know, Hillary did not campaign in Florida, and she won BIG !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 05/23/2008
- mikekev58 I'm a Fan of mikekev58 8 fans permalink

What exactly is the point of this post? So, Barry never asked to have his name on the ballot, right. And that would be because? Oh, because you don't have to gathter signatures, etc. in MI because the party determines who will go on the ballot. So, Barry did what every candidate did.

And then he went against the party's wishes when he removed his name from the ballot.

Situation has changed, Bar.

I think it's pretty generous to leave the uncommitted as uncommitted, recognizing that most (all?) would go to Barry, since I'm told he asked his supporters to vote uncommitted. Wonder why he did that?

No matter; I'm resigned to him being the nominee and to the election of John McCain as a result of that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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Sigh...if you want to vote for McCain please do, but at least a more intelligent argument as to why your doing it. When you pledge not to participate you remove your name, you can't say that I am not participating but I will leave my name on the ballot just incase someone wants to vote for me. I am pretty sure that other candidates was telling their votes they could vote uncommitted, and some choose to stay home knowing they could cast their vote in the General Election. But please, don't let common sense and intelligent thinking stop you from voting anyway you want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 05/23/2008
- sf94127 I'm a Fan of sf94127 5 fans permalink

The Obamamaniacs can not understand that Democrats with integrity can not vote for Obama because his nomination is a fraud if the direct votes from the people of FL and MI are NOT included.
Its not out of spite we would vote for McCain or stay home, its a matter of principle. Pretty much the only thing left the average citizen has is the vote. You take that away, there is nothing left at all. This is a priciple worth standing up for.

I could care less about what Hillary signed off on. This is not about her, its about counting votes from legitimate elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

I'll say it yet again to the Obamabots....

I live in Michigan.....

And...I want my vote counted!

....whether Hillary likes it or not!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Oh puhleeeeze! Hillary hasn't a shred of integrity in her. Not one iota.

Voting for McCain as "a matter of principle"? ROFLMAO! Someone who votes for McCain is called a republican.

You Limbaugh tools are getting more and more pathetic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 05/23/2008
- Willemaq I'm a Fan of Willemaq 13 fans permalink
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sf94127,

So Einstein, I guess your 'principles' don't include basic math. If you count MI and FL Obama still wins! The only way Mrs. Clinton wins (the poular vote, not the delegate count) is to count her MI votes only, giving Obama zero votes (kinda like the zero votes he got in 80 NY precincts including Harlem of all places)...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/nyregion/16vote.html?_r=1&ex=1360904400&en=6114699040e9bc82&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin
then omit the caucus states that Obama won.

So when Hillary says "count all the votes, she really means "just count all of MY votes"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 05/23/2008

Oh come on! It is out of spite. Why else would you vote for McCain? That's hardly principled.

Don't lecture about intergity when you could care less if Sen. Clinton violates the rules or if not getting your way means taking the rest of America down with you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 05/23/2008

INTEGRITY? Did you really just use that word? PRINCIPLE? Did you just use that word? Wow, that Clinton cool-aid must be some powerful mind-numbing stuff. This is remarkable. I can't believe I just read somebody defending HIllary based on integrity and principle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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He didn't go against the party's wishes when he removed his name from the ballot. He was fully in accord with the DNC rules. The pledge he AND Hillary signed was to not campaign or participate in MI or FL primaries. Need either of those terms defined? It was Michigan's state Dem "leaders" who caused the problem and were reaping the consequences of their actions.

You wouldn't vote for Obama if he had given Hillary everything she wanted right off the bat (which would have been extemely unfair). Why did Hillary reject the 69/59 split in her favor? Why aren't you directing any of your anger towards her? No need to answer, I can make a pretty good guess.

An election of John McCain will be the fault of your state Dems, Hillary Clinton, and you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 05/23/2008
- paganmist I'm a Fan of paganmist 67 fans permalink

He did not go against the party's wishes when he removed his name from the ballot. The party wished for him to not participate.

He signed a pledge.

He did not participate.

He did his job. What about Hillary?

Signed a pledge.

Said she wouldn't participate.

Is currently trying to participate.

Who's telling the truth and who's lying?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 05/23/2008

The Detroit newspapers prior to the primary specifically asked Obama supporters to vote UNCOMMITTED. My daughter and son-in-law are very much Obama supporters but didn't vote because they believed their vote wouldn't count. There is reason to believe that the bulk of the 'uncommitted' votes tallied were for Obama.

I also believe every state is important to Obama; his philosophy is inclusion and everyone participating so their voices can be heard.

I'm 62 white female and began as a supporter of Hillary, I was so excited to see an intelligent, capable woman run for President. However I have sincerely been disapointed by the way her campaign has resorted to negative attacks and distortions to win. I'm also equally disapointed at the women who are so angry they say they will vote for McCain or stay home if Hillary doesn't win.

I know this has been a long process with ups and downs for both Democratic candidates. I just pray that we can unite the Party so more of our young men /women don't lose their lives with an extended Iraq war. And our economy will continue favoring the rich while the rest of us middle-class becoming more strained just to survive.

Now that Obama looks to be so ahead in delegates and Hillary chances are slim, I hope we Americans come together to put a Democrat in the whitehouse. The stakes are too high for both the U.S. and the rest of the world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 05/23/2008
- RThM I'm a Fan of RThM 4 fans permalink

It's now more than ovious that Obama, Edwards, Biden and Richardson were the leaders of a vast sexist conspiracy to deny Clinton her rightful wins in both Michigan AND Iowa. They don't deserve any delegates for such shameless cheating. Either Clinton gets100% or she'll take it to the convention floor!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 05/23/2008
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And let us know when Elvis gets here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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Maybe he could sing a song to the undeclared supers;
"A little less conversation, A little more action"...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 05/23/2008

Obama does not want a revote in Florida or Michigan because he will lose both key states 'again.'

What voters need to learn about voting is when your candidate is not on the ballot you choose the write in option and write in your chosen one.

Come election day I will choose the write in option....­..........­..and write in my vote for Hillary Clinton.

McCain and Obama are not qualified to run this county....­..........­.both are bitter and inexperienced.

GO HILLARY

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 05/23/2008
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Hillary is not qualified. Being married to the president does not make you qualified to run the government. Just look at the mess she has made of her campaign. She has lost a fortune in a few months can you just imagine how much more debt we would accumulate with her spending money like she does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 05/23/2008
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Even if you counted Florida and Michigan as is, she would still be losing.
Explain to me how Obama is bitter. Give me some quotes, some action.

Hillary however as whined and screamed, stomped her feet and race-baited the ENTIRE TIME. And now she wants her supporters to march on the DNC? And Obama is bitter.

I am forced to conclude that Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly stupid as time goes on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 05/23/2008

At least we didn't start stupid like you Obamites. Nobody said Obama was bitter, he said that average Americans in the "middle states" were bitter, which is why they cling to their God and guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 PM on 05/23/2008
- Jess27 I'm a Fan of Jess27 2 fans permalink

Hate to break it to you, but if you are going to write in for Clinton, you might as well not even vote. All you will do is make it easier for McSame to win. Not very smart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

November 4, 2008

WRITE-IN: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Unlike what happened in Michigan & Florida, ...it's not legal to NOT count a legitimate write-in name. Too bad Howard Dean & the DNC & Senator Obama....you can't disenfranchise the voters any longer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 05/23/2008

Girardo,

Primaries are not popular elections. A party is selecting who they will endorse. That is it. Anyone can run and even win the popular vote of a Constitutional election. The Constitution does not support party politics. And Primaries are not Constitutional mandates. Therefore, just stop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Yeah, real Hillary fans are going to fall for Limbaugh toadies' tactics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 05/23/2008

Actually...I'm from Michigan and I can tell you that for the primary, there is NOT a write in option in Michigan. So before you spew things you know nothing about . learn the facts!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

We're talking about the election that actually counts....the one in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 05/23/2008
- RedBirdy I'm a Fan of RedBirdy 5 fans permalink

I no longer care about anything that Nancy Pelosi has to say. Wanna know why? I was so excited for the democrats, when we won the majority in 2006. I thought gas prices would have gone down, the war would on it's way to being over, and I thought, for once, the dems would have some balls and do some investigation into the Bush administration. but, they didn't. Once Nancy took impeachment of the table, and did nothing else positive since taking her historic post, I've lost all respect for her. In my opinion she's done far worse than Hillary have has and ever will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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I wouldn't put Pelosi anywhere near Clinton on the worse scale. Hillary tops it. But Pelosi and Reid both need to go. They're spineless and ineffective. Granted, they've had tremendous obstuction from Republicans (including Lieberman), but they still caved too many times when they didn't need to.

I'll credit Pelosi with denying the telecoms immunity so she's infinitely better than Clinton IMO.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 05/23/2008

Reid, I don't know about Pelosi. Reid is a sycophantic idiot, but Pelosi's just a realist--she took impeachment of Bush off the table because the only thing it would accomplish is making the dems look bad. She also doesn't seem to be eager to take on fights she can't win. She's getting better now that the special elections turned out in our favor

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 05/23/2008
- Jaradan I'm a Fan of Jaradan 6 fans permalink

The Dems aren't God. It takes time to undo the extreme damage the Repubs have done over the past 8 years (and the paths that the Clinton created for Bush jr.'s damage the 8 years before that).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 05/23/2008
- Boadicea I'm a Fan of Boadicea 64 fans permalink

What???

"And his decision, political observers say, was likely driven by a desire to appeal to Iowa voters (who were angered that Michigan had moved its primary up in the calendar) as well as the conclusion that he simply could not beat Clinton."

What "political observers" besides Hillary schills are so sure of Obama's motives? Did Edwards also remove his name for these reasons? And Richardson? Biden? Kucinich? Dodd?

Who read Obama's mind and discovered these motives?

Was every other candidate so afraid of the political prowess of Hillary Clinton in Michigan that they all trembled in fear and took their names off the ballot?

And why weren't they all afraid of her in the other states? Obama's numbers were bad in EVERY state back then - no one even knew his name, including me. Michigan was one of his better states then.

This lazy nonsense of taking Clinton talking points and turning them into conventional wisdom is extremely disappointing and I hate to see it here on Huffington Post, especially from you, Sam.

The truth is that Hillary left her name on an illegitimate ballot in case she needed to go back on her word later in the race. And loe and behold....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Keep speaking the truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 05/23/2008
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Triangulators to the core!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 05/23/2008
- RSU I'm a Fan of RSU 88 fans permalink
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"illegitimate ballot" ????

That's brilliant . . . does that also make the millions of Michigan voters "illegitimate" too?

The lengths that some people are willing to go to to disenfranchise voters is simply stunning to behold.

. . . and I bet you call yourself a Proud Democrat too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 05/23/2008

Dude! Michigan broke DNC rules. That is why they became illegitimate! Hillary had no objection to discounting Michigan until she needed them to win! DUH!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 05/23/2008

Are you really that ignorant, or are you such a blind follower of the Hilldebeast that you are willing to ignore the facts? The DNC told Michigan in advance that the primary would not count if it was held it before Super Tuesday. Obama and Hilldebeast both signed an agreement stating that they would not campaign for the Michigan primary if the primary was held before Super Tuesday. Michigan went ahead and held their primary before Super Tuesday. That makes Michigan's primary and the ballots used in such primary irrelevant to the DNC's nominating process, and thus describing the ballots as "illegitimate" is clearly accurate. Everyone knew this, and agreed with it at the time the primary was held, including Hilldebeast.

It's your right not to like the rules. But, you must agree that there needs to be rules. Otherwise chaos would result and we would never have a certain election outcome. In addition, if there are going to be rules, you also need sanctions for not following the rules.

Besides, invalidating the Michigan primary is not disenfranchising anyone. The DNC is a private party. It can choose whatever rules it wants to select its nominee. If you and the Michigan voters want to vote for Hilldebeast in the general election, you're free to do so. She can run as an independent or you can write her name in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Limbaugh troll.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 05/23/2008
- Jaradan I'm a Fan of Jaradan 6 fans permalink

What about those people in MI and FL who didn't vote because they were told the ballots wouldn't count? They're disenfranchised, too. The only ones who came to vote were people who owned houses because there was a property tax amendment on the ballot. So MI and FL renters are disenfranchised, too. Do you care about those people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 PM on 05/23/2008

Which is more legitimate? An primary where anyone can may vote during a twelve hour period, even allowing one's ballot to be mailed? Or some silly caucus with bizarre rules where you HAVE to be present for three hours in order to have your vote counted?

It's high time we do away with the caucus system. It's archaic and unfair. This nonsense of granting states like Iowa some privilege in choosing our candidates is ridiculous. Keep in mind that Obama only got 4.76% of the registered Democrat voters in Iowa. To have such importance placed on that is not only illegitimate to the democratic process, it's stupid!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 05/23/2008

You do realize that in 1960 when JFK ran, there were only about 15 or sixteen voting primaries? JFK had to go to each state that did not have a primary and convince the delegates to support him.

Was his nomination any less valid because of it?

By the way it's not "Democrat voters" it's "Democratic voters". If suspect you've been listening to too many Republican talking points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 05/23/2008
- sf94127 I'm a Fan of sf94127 5 fans permalink

Obama had African-American state senators kill any chance for a revote; excerpt from Detroit News below.

This is a crime and one of the major reasons I and millions of other democrats will NEVER vote for this fraud, Barack Obama.


From Detroit News:

The Obama campaign has devised a heady number of sensible objections, all on practical grounds, to the idea of a redo. "It's not fair for me to (have to vote for a bill) that's half-baked, ill conceived and not appropriate," state Sen. Tupac Hunter, an Obama supporter, said on WDET on Tuesday. Similarly, Sen. Buzz Thomas, who heads the Obama campaign in Michigan, is opposing an election. But all the technical objections, which question the ethics of privately funding an election or the fairness of an election that would exclude those who voted Republican on Jan. 15, seem fussy: After all, not one Obama supporter in Michigan was able to vote for their candidate by name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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Troll.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Typically clueless.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 05/23/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 563 fans permalink
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Did you even read the excerpt you posted before posting it to make your argument? Did you read the words, "sensible objections, all on practical grounds?" What about the last sentence: "After all, not one Obama supporter in Michigan was able to vote for their candidate by name."

This excerpt does not demonstrate any crime or fraudulence on Senator Obama's part. I'm sure that others of his supporters, not just African Americans, are equally opposed to any resolution that would not be reasonable and fair to both candidates. But I'm sure that you needed to emphasize the "African American" senators to show some type of nefarious racial alignment between them and Senator Obama. Nonetheless, your argument fails on all points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 05/23/2008

AND did these people not comprehend - HE FOLLOWED THE DNC RULES. SHE DIDN'T.
Now that conventional wisdom states the votes should counted in Michigan, he is supposed to just role over and say keep the original votes? I dont see how any objective person can blame him for this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

You need to begin being honest with yourself...then you can begin the process of being honest with others...

Your quotes from your above post were presented out of context...and you know it.

Berman was highly critical of the tactics used by Obama to get Michigan's June 3 revote killed.

Berman wrote: "But all the technical objections, which question the ethics of privately funding an election or the fairness of an election that would exclude those who voted Republican on Jan. 15, seem fussy."

Yes...that's correct....Obama's FUSSINESS ended up killing Michigan's Tuesday, June 3, 2008 primary re-vote. Obama to Michigan Voters: "Shut-Up!!!"

Berman went on to write in her article, "The Obama campaign may wish to avoid another contest in Michigan's tricky waters -- and another election that will be imperfect but more inclusive than any alternative. Clinton may be hungrier for votes but she's also on the right side here. Substituting a smoke-filled room and a jerry-rigged delegation is even less of a solution than trying to put Humpty Dumpty back on the wall."

And Berman was looking right into her crystal ball when she spoke of Obama using Smoke-Filled Rooms....isn't there a meeting scheduled for May 31 where a committee will determine the fate of Michigan's voters??

“CLINTON RIGHT TO SUPPORT DO-OVER”
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Laura Berman: The Detroit News

SOURCE: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080320/OPINION03/803200370/1374

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

I live in Michigan....and It's true!!!

And...like I've said before....Michigan, with it's worse in the nation economy....was actually looking forward to the campaigns and press swooping into our state for a month prior to the Tuesday, June 3, 2008 re-vote....renting our hotel rooms....eating at our restaurant­s.....buyi­ng air time on the radio and TV's...etc......it was estimated that this would bring over $100 million dollars to our state...not a lot, certainly....but when you're where we're at, trying to climb out of a recession...every little bit counts.

So....it was absolutley disingenuous for Senator "it's all about the people" Obama to have killed our fair and equitable re-vote....just because Obama did not want to take the chance that he might lose another large and important midwestern swing state.

WHAT A PHONY....I will not vote for a phony in November.....nor will millions of other Americans nationwide!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 05/23/2008
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Again. How did he kill it? He did not set up the rules, stop saying otherwise. You are lying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 05/23/2008

You're the phony, Republican plant! While we're changing the rules to let Michigan revote, why don't we let California revote, too. I'm sure with all the water that's gone under the bridge, a lot of Californians would like to change their votes from Clinton to Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 05/23/2008
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Girardo - what are you smoking??? Which words in "Michigan broke the DNC rules" do you not understand?

What is phony is that someone could trump up an argument that somehow a Senator is partly responsible for your state's continued economic problems because he stood up for democracy! Your point of view is precisely why the country as a whole is hurting right now - anything to make a buck, regardless of what rules you have to break, rights you have to ignore, and lies you have to tell.

If your philosophy is that economic enterprise should out-weigh democracy and civic responsibility, then we don't need you in the Democratic party, and we don't want your vote. What a piece of work!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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You can thank Gov, Engel and Bill Clinton/George HW Bush/NAFTA for Michigan's economic troubles.

Blame Levin, Granholm, and the rest of your inept state Dems for putting you into the position you're in now with the primary fiasco. Punish them.

Blaming Obama for this is not just disingenous, it's wrong on every level.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 05/23/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

REPUBLICAN SPIN AND I HAVE HEARD IT BEFORE.....THEY ARE HERE LIKE BIRD GUANA TO LEAVE LIES IN THEIR WAKE. READ THIS WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE DIRTY TRICKS GOP CAMPAIGN BEGINS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 05/23/2008
- RSU I'm a Fan of RSU 88 fans permalink
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You would do better to expose the lies and challenge them head on instead of making blanket accusations without providing any proof of what you are saying. Otherwise, it just makes you look paranoid and weak.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 05/23/2008
- sf94127 I'm a Fan of sf94127 5 fans permalink

I'm a Democrat, genius.

You are so blind on the Obama koolaid, you won't even try and look at the facts. If you faced the truth your Obama god would be tarnished and that is something you could not bear.

If Arianna were still right wing, the facts on Obama's duplicity in MI would be front and center on the HP instead of the McCain and Hillary attacks and negative spin.

Tupac and "Buzz" lead the effort to kill a revote; this crime is worse then FL 2000.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 05/23/2008
- TXfemmom I'm a Fan of TXfemmom 190 fans permalink

It was never a requirement of the Party that individuals were not to put their name on the ballot. OBAMA CHOSE TO DO IT TO PANDER TO IOWANS.

The people of Michigan, who went out and took the time to vote and cast their votes even knowing that their votes may not count, deserve to be counted. When it was advantageous to their goals, and Obama was behind, they were hammering on the fact that Super Delegates make the decision, that votes should.

Now, when the Superdelegates are the ones who are going to make the decision, and he is being aided by that, then he is gung ho that votes not count.

I don't feel that the people of Florida and Michigan who are Democrats, and had no part in the decision to change their primaries, should have their voice in free elections pulled out from underneath them, period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 05/23/2008
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So what would be wrong with giving Barack Obama the uncommitted votes in Michigan then?
Do that, give him his votes in Florida, and he would still be winning.
I'm pretty sure that even if you gave Hillary ALL of her votes from Michigan, giving Obama none, and then counted Florida as voted, he would STILL be winning.

Try again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 05/23/2008

Uncommitted means uncommitted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 05/23/2008

Bob you are absolutely right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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"Did Obama take overt action in the beginning to put his name on the ballot and then take it off? No," said Bill Ballenger, editor and publisher of Inside Michigan Politics. "It was put on the ballot by the higher ups... At the time, everybody knew that what Michigan was doing [with its primary] was in defiance of DNC rules."

Weeks after his name was submitted without his consent or objection, Obama personally signed an affidavit removing him from the primary slate. According to Ballenger, the senator could not have done the same thing in Florida -- the other state whose primary was unofficial -- as there was no state law there that allowed a candidate to remove his or her name.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/how-obama-ended-up-on-and_n_103132.html#


The Dems in Mi and FL need to hold their state Dem "leaders" accountable for this fiasco. They are the ones to blame for moving up their primaries against DNC rules and in full knowledge of the penalty they incurred for doing so. The republicans in Florida aren't to blame because the state Dem "leaders" were willingly complicit in every way and voted overwhelmingly to do it. Voters in both states stayed home because they were told (by Hillary as well as their leaders) that their votes would not count. Hillary couldn't care less about them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 05/23/2008

It was a republican controlled state legilature in each state that decded on the date. The DNC could have done something about it early on and didn't. When Clinton said she would pay for half the cost of the revote Obama did not want to do that. Not because he didn't have the money but because he felt the tactical advantage of not losing these states would benefit him. Well there will be a backlash and the backlash will extend beyond the two states in question. Unfortunatley the DNC is hooting itself in the foot by not seating the delegates. How the GOP loves what is happeneing. The Dems are dividing their own party and the GOP helped them do it. They will l do it in the future if it works out this well now.

If they seated Florida and Michigan according to the votes as is and gave all the uncommitted to Obama in Michigan. It would mean that he would still be ahead in the delegate count but Clinton would be ahead in the popular vote. It would also mean that many people in Florida and Michigan would be inclined to vote democratic rather than switch to Republican. I would be happy but it would not change the way I would vote because I don't think Obama is fit to be president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 05/23/2008
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And just what other rules do you feel Michigan can ignore and never have to suffer any consequence for breaking. Michigan must be a very special state to be able to get away with anything no matter what the rules are and the rest of the states have to obide by.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 05/23/2008
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I agree with you that the voters are the innocent victims in this mess.

Maybe the people of Florida and Michigan should elect different officials who truly have their constituents' best interests in mind. Defying the rules CLEARLY SPELLED OUT by the DNC was stupid. Not taking seriously the CONSEQUENCES that the DNC spelled out AHEAD OF TIME was even more stupid. Case closed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 05/23/2008

BRAVO!!! Well said!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:16 PM on 05/23/2008
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The facts remain. Obama has won more states, he is leading in pledged delegates, even if you were to seat Florida and Michigan by half as what will probably happen. He is winning. End. Of. Story.

Clinton's ONLY hope of winning the nomination is the super delegates. Period.
What she has chosen to do is try to guilt, connive and disrupt the truth, most particularly when she lost South Carolina. That was when Bill Clinton pooh-poohed Obama's win, comparing it to Jesse Jackson's win in South Carolina in 1988.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee is packed with Clinton people. The saving grace might be that the meeting on May 31st will be open to the public, so all the media will be there. Hopefully, Hillary's friends will want to salvage their politcal careers and won't allow her to steal the nomination. If they're crazy and allow her to, the Democratic Party will lose a substantial amount of it's electorate and they will guarantee a 3rd BushCo term. Hillary can kiss her dreams of 2008 and 2012 goodbye forever. Which way will they go? Are the Clinton's worth it? Do they still wield that much power? Do they command the same fear? ...Comin' soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 05/23/2008

The only saving grace for Obama has and will continue to be the fear on the part of the super delgates that they will be labelled racist unless they capitulate to the Obama thugs!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 05/23/2008
- RSU I'm a Fan of RSU 88 fans permalink
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You do realize there is a huge difference between a caucus and a primary? Obama has not won more states for that would imply he is the popular choice . . . he is not. In popular votes in big states, Hillary has beaten Obama by wide margins . . . states that Obama must carry if he expects to win the presidency.

With the results we've seen so far, he's got a long row to hoe in order to win the general election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 05/23/2008
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Then how is Obama winning the popular vote? Oh yeah, don't count caucuses, and don't give him anything for Michigan and Florida, then he wouldn't be winning.

You can't cherry pick what you want and spit out the rest. The irrefutable fact is that Obama is winning, and there is NOTHING you can say to change that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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Last time I checked the rules didn't say anything about winning the popular vote, it was by delegate count. Obama can give her the Florida and Michigan votes as is, even with him getting a zero for Michigan and she still looses by the delegate count. The delegate count is the ONLY metric that decides the nominee. So unless the DNC changes the rules on May 31st and/or the Super Delegates en masse support Hillary she cannot get the nomination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 05/23/2008
- bigbenny I'm a Fan of bigbenny 42 fans permalink
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So you want the Michigan and Florida votes to count even though they broke the rules that HRC signed on to but you're willing to throw out my vote that I made according to the rules in Washington state. How is my vote any less valuable than the Fla and Mich votes? I get it, throw out the caucus states because they didn't vote the way you think they should have while the two states who disobeyed the DNC rules but voted the way you want should count.

BULL!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!

GO OB 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

In a truly fair world....the superdelegates would over ride Obama's lead in pledged delegates...and nominate HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON!!!

THIS WOULD BE FULFILLING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!!!

I'll say it again....Clinton scored decisive victories in the 2nd, 6th, & 7th largest states: Texas (4%), Pennsylvania (10%) and Ohio (10%)....but due to the Democrats’ quirky rules, those three large states added up to a total net gain of only 14 delegates for Clinton — an advantage all but offset alone by Obama’s single win in South Carolina (24th largest state), a net pickup of 13 delegates for him there.

Three big wins in three large states being neutralized by a single win in the 24th largest state....and you will try to claim that the Democrat's pledged delegate math is NOT fuzzy???!!!

SOURCE: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTY0ZTZiM2FjYmRkYzdiOGUwZTA3YjdlZTY5ZGZkMmU=

Another Case in Point to illustrate why HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON is TRULY the PEOPLE'S CHOICE:

If you look at the total electoral college votes from states won to date, here’s the breakdown:

CLINTON: 308
OBAMA: 224

Source: http://www.diversityj.com/ElectoralVoteStates.html

I can't even believe you say above, "Obama has won more states" like this gives any credence to the argument that Obama is ahead.....in case you weren't aware, a win for Clinton in California means more than a win for Obama in Wyoming.

You may be fooled by Obama's rhetoric....but we will not be fooled.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 05/23/2008
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The super delegates have no obligation to vote in any manner other than what they deem necessary.

Clinton in losing. You cannot bring up any little tidbit that will change that. Discussion over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Another re-post of your rightwingnut malarkey? How many times does that make? As if we need the input of National Review tripe.

Hillary can cosy up to Scaife, Murdoch, Rove, Buchanan, Scarborough, Limbaugh, Coulter, and all the others on the right trying to get the nomination for her, but their garbage still smells and we toss it away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 05/23/2008

And while Obama has won more small states and archaic caucuses (in Iowa he only got 4.76% of the registered vote), he also must rely on the super delegates to obtain the nomination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:20 PM on 05/23/2008
- alamantra I'm a Fan of alamantra 5 fans permalink
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It is an oddity that there are some who will fault Sen. Obama for removing his name from the Michigan ballot, and say that Sen. Clinton should get her way on this issue ...that she is "right." Sen. Obama simply thought that the rules needed to be observed as dictated by the party that both of them are supposed to be representing. By the same extention of logic, are John Edwards, Joseph Biden and Bill Richardson also "at fault" for coming to the same conclusion as Sen. Obama, and only Hillary Clinton is correct? Wasn't her man, Ickes, one of the party poobahs that said that the rules needed to be enforced? ...Of course this was all going on at the time that Hillary and her people were banking on their "super tuesday" strategy of inevitability so Michigan and Florida weren't that much of a concern at the time. They didn't expect Sen. Obama to do so well. It is a sad commentary on democracy itself when some are so obsessed with getting their candidate into office that they are willing to, not only subvert the rules, but throw contempt at the people who actually did respect both the spirit and the letter of those rules. You'll never be able to convince me that such a character deserves to have any real power over my family, neighbors and friends. It is simply wreckless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Now you're just going to be attacked for stating facts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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You hit the nail on the head, alamantra.
Some people are so willing to believe that Obama had alterior motives, all the while defending Hillary wanting to change the rules to serve her.
The fact is; she thought she had this whole thing wrapped up as soon as she threw her hat in the ring. So when things didn't go her way, she had to find a way to twist things so she could look like a victim. Shameless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Remember how cocky she was last Summer and Fall? (I used the term "cocky" because Hillary likes all the manly adjectives, adverbs, and nouns applied to her.)

It was shocking to see the transformation after Super Tuesday. That's when she started to "care" about her votes in MI and FL.

Rocky Balboa is going down for the count real soon if there's any sanity left in the Democratic Party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 05/23/2008
- RSU I'm a Fan of RSU 88 fans permalink
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It is impossible for anyone to believe that Obama’s name was placed on the Michigan ballot without either his permission or approval. Therefore, the decision to be on the Michigan ballot rests with Obama.

Likewise, his action to remove his name from the ballot, whether it was to stand in solidarity with the DNC who sought to sanction Michigan for moving their date forward, or out of some high moral belief that Michigan was in the wrong and therefore not worth his time, or as this story proffers, that he seemingly believed he’d lose by margins that might impact his downstream election contests, also rests with Obama.

The same goes for everyone else who pulled their names from the Michigan ballot.

Crying afterward because you don’t like the result of an election you didn’t even participate in is simply embarrassing.

Offers for a revote were made, but Obama and his lawyers rejected that out of fear Republican crossover voters might affect the outcome – overlooking the fact that could happen in any election.

Barring a revote, Obama and the DNC have only one choice before them; accept the election result as is or reject it wholly. Any compromise or requirement to split the delegate count after the vote is taken is in my view underhanded and akin to thuggish intimidation to weasel back in after making a terribly mistaken decision.

Hillary is right to not want to compromise. It was their choice . . . they should live with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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That's what we need. More advice and Obama-trashing from another rightwinger.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 05/23/2008
- JayHorus I'm a Fan of JayHorus 5 fans permalink
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How is that so many people can type and yet not be able to read? Or maybe it is just comprehending what they read is the problem. Oh well, just found that odd.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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A lot of people comment on these posts without actually READING the article it corresponds to. It bugs me, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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Boy we sure are all getting bogged down by this whole Michigan issue. As if it's what really matters.
Obama is leading by every measurable means there is.
He WILL be the Democratic nominee.
It's time for Hillary to make an exit, it may be a little too late for a graceful one.
Dems have to focus on the real danger; Republicans winning. And they have to get behind their nominee, regardless of whether he was your first choice, to ensure victory.
I'm getting frustrated, too. But I do think when this primary is over, dems will unite, and the country will get to know Obama better.
I can't wait to see Obama's numbers go up, and McCain's go down.
Bring it on !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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You got that right!

That's just what Senator Obama's doing. After praising Hillary, he promptly took the fight to McCain.

McCain lost his evangelical base BIG TIME, the neocons want more war talk from him even though he can't remember who's who or what's what, and most of the freepers can't stand him. Good times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 05/23/2008
- Tropiholic I'm a Fan of Tropiholic 20 fans permalink

Nice fairy tale!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 PM on 05/23/2008

Hillary is the one who agreed that Michigan and Florida wouldn't count when she everybody thought she was going to win.

Then the slimey snake started to lose and wanted to go back on her previous agreement. She acts like she never agreed they wouldn't count. Now she acts like some champion of the rights of Michigan and Florida voters. But where was that argument when she agreed they wouldn't count?

She's trying to pretend her own selfish actions are on behalf of those poor, disenfranchised voters. But that's a load of crap. She changed her mind when she started losing. Plain and simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 05/23/2008

Hillary Supporters,

Hillary is not going to be President. You do realise that, right? Obama is going to be the nominee because Hillary can't get 245 delegates before Obama gets 61.

As for the meeting about FL and MI... Obama doesn't have to agree to give Clinton a single delegate out of those contests. And he won't give her anything that will change the game. Hillary is blowing smoke about this meeting which will only decide a solution that Obama and Clinton both approve.

Now, if you all want to protest vote against Obama in the fall, feel free to wave your rights to choose when McCain becomes President and appoints Supreme Court Justices who overturn Roe vs Wade.

Which will it be? Protest vote against Obama and get 4 more years of Iraq and 4 more years of the economy getting worse and worse and the overturn of Roe vs Wade and the ban on abortion for your lifetime and a probable war with Iran... do you choose what you wish you had and give up everything you need?

Sucks. I know. But elections aren't about breaking glass ceilings for women or for african americans... they are about who is going to govern the country. Hillary could have won this election. But she didn't. Even if she gets FL and MI as voted she is still too far behind to catch up. She lost fair and square.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 05/23/2008
- Girardo I'm a Fan of Girardo 2 fans permalink

Here's how Barack may steal this nomination:

THE DEMOCRAT'S FUZZY PLEDGED DELEGATE MATH

(The Math that is so often touted by Senator Obama and his supporters to essentially steal this nomination….what ever happened to one person—one vote?)

Senator Clinton scored decisive victories in the 2nd, 6th, & 7th largest states: Texas (4%), Pennsylvania (10%) and Ohio (10%)....but due to the Democrats’ quirky rules, those three large states added up to a total net gain of only 14 delegates for Senator Clinton — an advantage all but offset alone by Senator Obama’s single win in South Carolina (24th largest state), a net pickup of 13 delegates for him there.

And, to boot, we all know that South Carolina will turn TRUE BLUE come November. ;-)

It's no wonder Senator Obama and his supporters are so in love with this "fuzzy" pledged delegate math.

Primary Pondering....What if ...?
By: Bill Whalen

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTY0ZTZiM2FjYmRkYzdiOGUwZTA3YjdlZTY5ZGZkMmU=

Another Case in Point, just to illustrate how strongly Hillary truly is the People's Choice.

If you look at the total electoral college votes from states won to date, here’s the breakdown:

CLINTON: 308
OBAMA: 224

Source: http://www.diversityj.com/ElectoralVoteStates.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 05/23/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 563 fans permalink
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... According to the venerable statistician, KARL ROVE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 05/23/2008
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How is she the people's choice when she is LOSING. Funny how you don't mention that. And by the way, Obama didn't set up the rules for the Democratic primary, so how is he trying to "steal" the nomination?

And I wouldn't call 4% Texas win a decisive victory.

All of this "steal the nomination" stuff has a racist undertone to it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 05/23/2008
- plafayette I'm a Fan of plafayette 8 fans permalink
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Girardo, honey back up and read your OWN FOOLISH POST. Even you have said "due to the quirky rules" NOT DUE TO SEN. OBAMA! Please admit that it really does come down to obeying the rules of the PARTY...not Obama and not Clinton. The rules are the rules. He has not stolen anything from anybody. He ran fair and WON Fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Obama picked up 2 more superdelegates today. According to MSNBC, he;s 60.5 delegates away from the nomination. Hillary is hundreds away.

Once we dispense with her campaign, we're coming after your McSame, as Obama is doing now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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There's a lot of trolls on this post here, today.
I guess McCain has been successfull in his recruitment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 05/23/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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They're as pathetic as he.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 05/23/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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We all have to stop falling for it, though. I know I can get sucked in some time. And then I feel like an idiot because that's exactly what they want.
Bottom line Trolls; We see you for what you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 05/23/2008
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 05/23/2008
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