Webb And Petraeus Square Off Over Iran Diplomacy (VIDEO)

Spencer Ackerman, writing for the Washington Independent highlights two key portions of today's confirmation hearings for Generals David Petraeus and Ray Odierno, fueled by tenacious questioning from Democratic Senator Jim Webb, who continues to be a firm source of well-informed, yet softly stated pushback to the administration's foreign policy follies.

Webb went back and forth with Odierno, working to pin him down on what the "endpoint" of the military mission in Iraq was supposed to resemble and what conditions could precipitate the end of our occupation. Via Windy:

Webb isn't satisfied. But what does U.S. military mission in iraq look like, even if those conditions are met? "It'll adjust over time. We'll have less and less responsibility for drect combat... Over time, we'll change to advisory missions." But how long will that take? "It's unknown... I think that's a policy decision, how long we'd want to have contact with the Iraqi government in future."

But what's the endpoint? Say U.S. meets all these conditions. Should there be a continued U.S. presence there? "That's a discussion... for policy." Webb won't let it go! What do you think, Gen. Odierno? Will there be a need for the U.S. military in Iraq if those conditions are met? "I do not." Finally.

Now that's how an adult asks a question.

Then he turned to Petraeus, skeptically critiquing the general's use of the word "malign" as a means of describing "Iranian influence," and asked the general, "Would you agree that historically one of the realities we have do deal with is some sort of Iranian influence in the region?" Petraeus agreed, offering the caveat that he's hope such influence would be "constructive."

WEBB: General Petraeus, there's some language in response to questions that were submitted to you for the record that go to Iran that I would like to get some clairifcation or give you the oipportunity to clarfify. You use the word malign as an adjective, as someone who's written nine books, I'm trying to struggle with how this fits in to what you're saying here. You say we will continue to expose you the extent of Iran's malign activity in Iraq, and then you say on the next page, our efforts in regard to Iran must involve generating international cooperation and building consensus to counter malign Iranian influence, and then you speak about its...there are consequences for its illegitimate influence in the region. Can you clarify for us...how are you using those words?

PETRAEUS: I can, Senator. What I'm talking about there I am characterizing that influence, it is malign and it is lethal and it is illegitimate. The arming, training, funding, and directing of militia extremists who have killed our soldiers...is very malign indeed it's the same situation with what they're doing...

WEBB: In the interest of time, here, because you've given those answers, would you agree that historically one of the realities we have do deal with is some sort of Iranian influence in the region? I'm not talking about the specific military incidents. I am talking about the reality of dealing with the region.

PETRAEUS: I have always stated, in fact, that there will be Iranian influence and that the hope is that the Iranian influence is constructive...

Webb turned on that and began laying out the case that such "constructive" influence was more likely to be achieved through diplomatic contact with Iran, "We would hope," Webb said, "that we would be able to see some creative leadership in terms of how to bring a different set of diplomatic circumstances into play." Using his command of history, Webb drew a fitting comparison with China (like Iran, "rogue...with nukes, with an American war on its border"), who were similarly engaged in "malign" influence of the war in Vietnam. Petraeus managed to run out the clock without offering much in terms of substance in response, but after a week of the Bush administration painting any sort of diplomacy as appeasement, Webb got a vital argument to the contrary on the record.

Comments

[SaintZak]

Yep, his chances at a spot on the Obama ticket went up considerably today.

[Erdgeist]

Sorry, but I find Gen. Petraeus to be a rather arrogant and stupid officer. The military can have nothing to do with the politics of Iran--that is Bush's department. The burden is on Bush to negotiate or ask Congress for a Declaration of War, then turn to dogs of war loose. What Gen. Petraeus appears to be doing, that Clausewitz would condemn, is fantasize that Iran will do what America tells it to do with a few bombing runs as if to say, "Oh we are so sorry mighty America--you are right we won't do it again." Sorry Gen. Patraeus, but there is no military genius that you can cite who will say such a strategy will work. It is either all out war, or peaceful negations to avoid it--or the stupid way of Bush, viz., the quagmire. It looks like you are going for the unwinnable quagmire.

[GrandpaMcCain]

I concur.

[McFlipFlop]

Me 2.

[IntelligentDesign]

"..I find Gen. Petraeus to be a rather arrogant and stupid officer."
________________________

That's just the way Busk likes 'em.

[dadw5boys]

Any General would have to be arrogant to be party to granting Politicians the power to use the military for private profit.
It is Illegal by the way!
Never wornder why so many High ranking Officers retired so quickly pr got transfered away from the Pentagon after Bush was elected?

[Mitchell4A]

Notice how closely aligned Webb's and Obama's statements have been these past few days on talking to adversaries. Both have emphasized how we talked with China and Russia, two much more dangerous adversaries than Iran. Also, notice the similar themes about those who have been left behind economically. Too early to be certain, of course, but I think that there is a good case to be made that Webb will be Obama's choice. (I leave aside here Hillary and Bill's strong arm tactics.)

"It's Going to be Webb for VP, Probably" (And if not, I have a sure fired alternative.)
http://msa4.wordpress.com/

[abouttime]

Thanks Webb!
Another straw on the backs of McCain and Bush!

[InDaZone]

Obama/Webb 2008!!

[BigSid]

GRAB A GUN SEN. WEBB

I thought Sen. Webb sounded kinda silly when he said "as someone who's written nine books". Who cares how many books you've written?

Then he goes on to say "in the interest of time" as he cuts Gen. Petraeus short while answering the question Webb asked.

Well, the best interest of time would be for Webb to leave out the sales pitch for his books and his self-proclaimed writing skills.

What a boor!

[GrandpaMcCain]

Poor. F-cking. Baby.

[GrandpaMcCain]

Where's YOUR gun, d-ckhead? Didn't think so. Another chickensh-t armchair soldier.

[BigSid]

What if I told you that right outta high school I served four years in the Corps, and that I saw my fair share of peacetime and wartime duty (Dessert Shield and Operation), then after college I went back for four years more?

Would you call me a liar, or would you apologize for the false accusation you made?

[AERO]

Webb grabbed a gun during Vietnam and was awarded the Navy Cross, Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, and 2 Purple Hearts.

Chances are that you aren't worthy enough to make a comment on him.

[BigSid]

I'm fully aware of Sen. Webb's military service, and that's why I was even more shocked to see Webb wasting time questioning a General with even more significant military service than himself over the proper use of an adjective.

Isn't sad that a conversation about a war that has cost thousands of lives would in any way revolve around the proper/improper use of an adjective? It's made even sadder by the fact that Webb was wrong.

[tea in the harbor]

The nine books were written by Petraeus, genius. The point was that he should have command enough of the english language to slip his inflamatory rhetoric in less clumsily!

[BigSid]

I think you're WRONG about that. I believe Sen. Webb was referring to the books he has written. I'm aware of several books that Webb has written, but not many (other than possibly Army field manuals) that Petraeus has written.

The fundamental problem is still that Petraeus was using the word properly, though maybe not the way many are accustomed to it being used. So, whether Webb was referring to himself or Petraeus as the author of nine books, Webb should have a better command of the English language himself.

[lisakaz2]

If you think of the context, maybe it should have occurred to you that "malign" is NOT AN ADJECTIVE. Someone who actually writes seriously might know that. The adjective is "malignant" as in tumor. Have you ever heard of a "malign tumor"?

[GrandpaMcCain]

Wait for it... you know the jackass is going to say he has...

[AnotherMike]

Obama/Webb '08

Pleeeeeease.

If there's one person who can get the "working-class whites" (ahem.. rednecks) to come around to the reality of who the best person to be President is, it's Senator Jim Webb.

A decorated Vietnam War Veteran from Virginia (Appalachia) that negates most of the built-in war hero street cred Sen. McCain already has. After hearing John McCain's disrespectful comments about Sen. Obama today, it's clear he's going to use this Vietnam thing for all it's worth. Hoping voters will forget or ignore, of course, the fact that McCain only became a pilot because of his father Admiral McCain, and that he actually finished below the cut off to award wings in his flight class.

But no... according to McCain, it's somehow less honorable to go to law school, graduating high in your class and becoming a community organizer when you graduate, rather than the token black man for a frim in any big city making millions and living the soft life.

I've had it. I'm sick of people being faced with decisions and consistently choosing the wrong one. Bush was wrong, McCain is wrong and Hillary's doing her very best to align herself in the same category.

Let's end this reign of terror against the American people and evict these criminals from their safehouse in Washington D.C. once and for all.

Obama/Webb '08

Who's got a better idea?

[abouttime]

You are right.
Why shouldn't someone who knows about culture, who reads and writes; whose exeperiences in family tradition and war; who has an intellect, is a Congressman, not be Great for our country, (and planet) McaCain, Who wants a President with experience in sucking up, an nothing about American culture and history.
My adice to you McCain is..... retire soon - because your experience is over.
Thanks AnotherMike

[littleblackcat]

Good post, AnotherMike. It may bear repeating that simply surviving a POW camp does not a HERO make. There is no real proof of heroism other than his opting to remain in the camp. Perhaps he was taking the safer road. He had been shot down and was still alive, if he stayed put there was no chance of getting shot at again. The next time he might not be so lucky. His captors knew who his father was, so he may have gotten a few perks. I do respect his service in the face of the cowardice of bush & cheney but I think too much has been made of it for political purposes.

[focher]

I think the fundamental problem is that most Americans place undue value in someone's military service as it might relate to how they would perform as Commander in Chief. It seems possible to respect someone's service, and that you are not denigrating the service simply because you don't assign it characteristics which are historically suspect.

Neither Abraham Lincoln nor FDR had military service in their background, and they seemed to do fine as C-n-C during the two most significant wars in US history. There are plenty of other examples of US Presidents who never served but did perfectly fine in the C-n-C role.

McCain will harp on his POW status just as Kerry promoted his service in Vietnam, primarily because many voters think this makes them more qualified. I completely disagree, but cannot deny the reality of people's behavior.

[TexasDem0]

You can't be serious.

[TexasDem0]

Above comment was intended to be a reply to hopelessobama who wrote that Nazis were left wing socialists.

[GrandpaMcCain]

Well, the sheer absurdity of "H.O."'s statement probably blasted your reply all the way up here. :-D

[obscurant]

Is it not insane that we can condemn Iranian influence in a country that we invaded?

[botboy]

Never thought about it that way... Interesting frame. You will make a fine Jedi yet obscurant.

[focher]

It shows how far down the rabbit hole we've fallen that the hypocrisy doesn't even merit a mention.

I often just shake my head when the complaint about Iranian interference goes unchallenged. It seems almost blasphemous to point out that the US is the biggest interferer on the planet, despite the obviousness of it.

[AmericanSinceFeb08]

Glad that Webb won the senetorial election in Virginia, and not Allen (remember him... m?????)

[Bobrobert]

McDoodoo is TOAST without butter.

At last - the end of the X hero.

Anyone that would vote to go to war in Iraq for oil lost my respect and need not apply for hero worship.

Remember to vote all.

[fedupcitizen]

Webb intelligently argues the issue of diplomacy with Iran with the face of Bush's war Gen. Petraeus.

Love It!

[Grannysue]

Oh my General said the U.S. has been having talks with IRAN, gee how ever will he be able to work with Jr. now that he's said they are APPEASEARS??

[hopelessobama]

petraeus outclasses the vastly inferior intellect of james webb. webb should wear a bag over his head when in the general's presence.

[knosiswar]

dearheart, mommy just called, supper's ready.

[GrandpaMcCain]

~snicker~ Thank you, Rosy Palm.

[solarenergy]

Petraeus, who clearly was given millions in a Swiss bank account to sell out his own rules on how to fight an insurgency, has the vastly inferior ethics, like everyone else in this administration.

[hopelessobama]

have you even read the counter insurgency measures petreaus wrote??? no, and why would you, with a guy like obama who has all that foreign policy experience from community organizing, why bother listening to the 4 star general with a phd from princeton.

[ICanHasDemocracy]

Malign is a verb, malignant is the adjective... but considering Petreaus is lockstep with Incurious George, it's no surprise he uses such verbiage.

Hopeless, Other than being an unread mendicant, what proof do you have that Webb, also a veteran AND an author, is of inferior mental capacity than Petreaus. Maybe if you caount COD4 kills as IQ points in your world.

[PlasticSpoon]

Love you ICan, but to split hairs (i've had a bad day at work) MALIGN can be used as an adj, and that's what the clarification was about

[hopelessobama]

webb is an abusive drunk, petraeus is a princeton scholar and truly brilliant foreign policy expert. the fact that jim webb only exists in politics because of 'maacaa' is further proof of his irrelevance. this is why he already has higher negatives ratings then allen ever had in just 2 short years in the senate.

but hey, webb sure knows how to use his son's service as a campaign prop, unlike mccain who respects his son too much to march around in his boots like a damn clown.

[Harinama]

wow, i dont know what reality you are living in, but THIS ISNT IT.

Patraeus is a complete neocon sellout, and nothing but a mouthpeace for their imperialist militaristic fascist policies. Hope he spends his payoffs well in hell..

Jim Webb is a thoughtful and consciencious politician, which is probably what you hate about him.

What, you are so ADD that anything but a 2word sound bite is above your attention span?

[milo9]

It seem's like just yesterday when MoveOn was maligned for questioning the veracity of General Petreaus. And Senator Web was one of the signatories of the Senate Resolution condemning MoveOn.

[LeftLeanWing]

and ? ______________________________ so ? ____________________________

[GrandpaMcCain]

~snicker~

[GrandpaMcCain]

It's "seems," not "seem's," and "Webb," not "Web." If you want anyone to take you even remotely seriously, learn to f-cking spell, @sshole.