NBC News, MSNBC: Uneasy coexistence?

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DAVID BAUDER | May 26, 2008 06:28 PM EST | AP

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In this Oct. 9, 2007 file photo, Chris Matthews speaks before the GOP Presidential candidates debate which he moderated at the Ford Community and Performing Arts Center in Dearborn, Mich. (AP Photo/Carlos Osorio,file)

NEW YORK — NBC News has managed to achieve the near-impossible this election season in getting Hillary Rodham Clinton and George Bush to agree on something.

That something, however, is antipathy toward NBC News.

Through its unusual public criticism of NBC's handling of Richard Engel's interview with the president, the Bush administration struck at the soft white underbelly of the news division's co-existence with the opinionated personalities of MSNBC.

"I'm sure you don't want people to conclude that there is really no distinction between the `news' as reported on NBC and the `opinion' as reported on MSNBC, despite the increasing blurring of those lines," Bush counselor Ed Gillespie wrote to NBC News President Steve Capus in a letter pointedly released to the public.

Capus said viewers are smart enough to understand the difference and that the criticism is a reflection of MSNBC's growing popularity.

Clinton's campaign didn't want to talk publicly about NBC, but it has been unhappy about the Democratic candidate's treatment by "Hardball" host Chris Matthews. That culminated in Matthews' apology in January for saying that the reason Clinton is a U.S. senator and candidate for president "is that her husband messed around."

Keith Olbermann has been critical of Clinton and supportive of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on MSNBC's "Countdown."

When Tim Russert declared Obama the Democratic nominee during MSNBC's coverage of the North Carolina and Indiana primaries, the words carried extra weight because the "Meet the Press" host is generally considered the top broadcast journalist in Washington.

Story continues below

It was no coincidence when Clinton ran a campaign ad in Oregon criticizing pundits "who talk about who's up and who's down" instead of about issues, pictures of Matthews, Olbermann and Russert flashed past. The only non-NBC journalist was ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who has his own complicated relationship with the Clintons.

"Getting into the game of trying to attract an audience based on your point of view rather than reporting is dangerous because it does invite this kind of backlash," said Tom Rosenstiel, director of the Project for Excellence in Journalism.

It's hard, he said, to have it both ways.

A clash between two cultures at NBC played out vividly on the air during a discussion between Matthews and anchor emeritus Tom Brokaw on MSNBC's New Hampshire primary coverage, he said. Matthews had called for an investigation of opinion polls when Clinton surprisingly beat Obama that night.

"You know what I think we're going to have to go back and do?" Brokaw said. "Wait for the voters to make their judgment."

The network has emphasized that MSNBC and NBC News are synonymous. The bond was tightened recently when MSNBC moved out of its New Jersey headquarters to Rockefeller Center in Manhattan. Now Olbermann's "Countdown" and Brian Williams' "Nightly News" are produced under the same roof. NBC News personalities appear more frequently on MSNBC.

Olbermann's success has had a spillover effect on the network, said Eric Burns, an ex-NBC News correspondent and former host of "Fox News Watch" on Fox News Channel.

"He has made, just in terms of general image, MSNBC and by implication NBC (appear) much more liberal than it really is," Burns said.

Fox's Bill O'Reilly has relentlessly hammered NBC News on this issue because of his feud with Olbermann. That became heated enough to reach into the top levels of corporate owners General Electric Co. and News Corp., as outlined recently in The Washington Post.

Gillespie's letter also expressed several other complaints about NBC News, including Capus' declaration in fall 2006 that NBC would refer to violence in Iraq as a civil war. Grumbling by the Bush administration against NBC isn't surprising given the savage commentaries Olbermann has unleased against it.

To a certain extent, Gillespie's criticism may have been a lifesaver for NBC News after skirmishes with the Clinton campaign.

"We must be doing something right if people are squawking on both sides of the aisle," Capus said. "News and news-related programming is not always a popularity contest."

Certainly not with the subjects. Ratings indicate that "the public has demonstrated that this is a non-issue," he said.

It's wrong to base a network or a news division's image on one or two shows, he said. MSNBC has Olbermann and Matthews, but it also has former Republican politician Joe Scarborough on in the morning, he said.

"Viewers are savvy enough to know the differences in that kind of programming," Capus said. "The mission of NBC News hasn't changed. The difference is that MSNBC has had some success, and success comes with attention and scrutiny."

Research to be released by the Project for Excellence in Journalism will show that people would be hard-pressed to prove that opinionated MSNBC shows spill over in any way to NBC News programs like "Today," Rosenstiel said.

Burns said he knows Capus and Williams and doesn't question their credentials as solid, unbiased journalists. But the partnership with MSNBC means these issues won't disappear.

"It's a fine point, but for someone who cares about news it's a very important one," he said, "and it's not something that has ever been raised before."

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NBC is owned by the General Electric Co.

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On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

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EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — NBC News has managed to achieve the near-impossible this election season in getting Hillary Rodham Clinton and George Bush to agree on something. That something, however, is antipath...
NEW YORK — NBC News has managed to achieve the near-impossible this election season in getting Hillary Rodham Clinton and George Bush to agree on something. That something, however, is antipath...
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I hope viewers aren't only watching cable shows on MSNBC to get the news. These are commentary shows not straight news shows. CNN and MSNBC seem to be democratic and MSNBC seems more liberal than CNN. Morning Joe is annoying when he yells over people and gets keeps trying to sell his own opinions. Hardball could be better if Matthews didn't let his bias interfere and Keith Olbermann hammers the White House and Fox with humor. I watch him because I find out some of what is going on with his slant on it, so I can be informed without being so angry about what I hear that I want to scream. Neither were pro-Obama at the beginning., but when it became obvious that Clinton wasn't going to win (that pesky math thing) they did become much more open about their preference. Olbermann was a Hillary fan until she consistently made bad choices and she became the first (that I know of) democrat to be the subject of one of his special comments twice . NBC and MSNBC are separate entities and viewers know that. If they don't understand the difference between a news reporter and a commentator they only need to watch and listen to Tom Brokaw and Brian Williams when they appear on MSNBC. They do not offer opinions and report from facts. I do wish MSNBC had straight news along with their current shows, but I can always get news on NBC or the internet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 05/28/2008
- SeekerOne I'm a Fan of SeekerOne 11 fans permalink
photo

Mathews was right about New Hampshire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 05/27/2008
- unscum I'm a Fan of unscum 9 fans permalink

Hurray,

Keith Olbermann is doing awesome, 1244000+578000 viewer verses O'Reilly's 1673000+864000 and Anderson Cooper's 742000+546000.

Congrats Keith, keep up the good work, you are going to beat O'Reilly this election season!

Cable News Ratings for Friday, May 23

8PM - P2+ (25-54)
The O’Reilly Factor- 1,673,000 viewers (273,000)
CNN Election Center– 715,000 viewers (208,000)
Countdown w/ Olbermann – 1,244,000 viewers (452,000)
Fast Money- a scratch with 119,000 viewers (63,000) **Ran from 8-8:30PM ET
High Net Worth- a scratch with 107,000 viewers (a scratch with 42,000) **Ran from 8:30-9PM ET
Nancy Grace – 461,000 viewers (100,000)

10 PM P2+ (25-54)
Crime Scene – 826,000 viewers (177,000)
Anderson Cooper– 742,000 viewers (264,000)
Countdown w/ Olbermann – 578,000 viewers (239,000)
Donny Deutsch- 136,000 viewers (67,000)
Nancy Grace – 265,000 viewers (98,000)

11 PM P2+ (25-54)
The O’Reilly Factor (repeat) - 864,000 viewers (247,000)
Anderson Cooper – 546,000 viewers (249,000)
MSNBC Investigates- 374,000 viewers (202,000)
Mad Money- a scratch with 67,000 viewers (a scratch with 30,000) **Ran from 11-11:30PM ET
High Net Worth- a scratch with 67,000 viewers (a scratch with 34,000) **Ran from 11:30-Midnight ET
Showbiz Tonight– 355,000 viewers (173,000)

Nielsen TV Ratings Data

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 05/27/2008
- LewisR I'm a Fan of LewisR 4 fans permalink

I used to like Obama, but Keith and Chris with their constant sappy wet kisses is just turning me off, but add Maddow in with them and it just makes me want to vote Libertarian. (Go B. Barr! yuck.) I mean, I can see a downside to every candidate present and past, so why they can't see any problem at all with Obama makes me question their intregity, bigtime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 05/27/2008
- unscum I'm a Fan of unscum 9 fans permalink

Why are you a Republican posing as a Democrat/Independent in this blog? This is the oldest blogging trick in the book.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 05/27/2008

no calling someone that doesnt agree with you an extremest is the oldest trick in the book your narrow mindedness is mind boggling

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 05/27/2008
- pizzmoe I'm a Fan of pizzmoe 20 fans permalink

If the press is making the White House angry, then they are doing their job. I always thought tell truth to power is the purpose of the news media

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 05/27/2008

Yes they are doing 'something right':cutting through a lot of BS esp.from the so-called administration the Spinton campaign...
Keith was being unbiased before HRC started her demented campaign tactics & even Chris calls them out now.

Of the other cable 'news' channels:Fox I watch for laughs on occasion BUT CNN is ridiculous!
"Best political team on TV">Please!
Cambell "WT?" Brown & Wolf "Dolt" Blizter are right wing hacks who also happen to be so uninsightful they both border on moronic.If it wasn't for Donna Brazille & John King I wouldn't tune them in!King's political graphics/map do trump MSNBC& in that area only...
MSNBC's team is excellent:Chuck Todd, Nora O'Donnel,David Gregory(the first press corps person to call ouy W consistently )& even Joe Scarborough...would love to see more Ron Reagan,Jr though!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 05/27/2008
- Meah I'm a Fan of Meah 52 fans permalink
photo

The White House loved Russert as long as they could use him for furthering their agenda. Especially Cheney. Russert has played into their hands more than once. Until he got burned with the Libby trial.

Keith Olbermann was eminently fair with Hillary Clinton until her campaign started shooting itself in the foot. Olbermann goes with the good guys. Plain and simple.

Any complaints from the White House should be seen as an NBC contribution to the country. They have ZERO credibility.

If crazy Bill O'Reilly complains about NBC, you know he is only defending his pathetic ego. NBC should ALWAYS ignore him.

Chris Matthews was hard on Hillary and soft on Giuliani. He has improved and he did owe her an apology. But he has not done that for a while. He's better lately, even with periodic dufus statements. He seems more focused.

David Schuster messed up and messed up more by blaming the Clinton's anger at Matthews. He did not take responsibility. Young people use the "pimp" comment all of the time, but he should have known better. David's head has gotten a little big. He's good. But he needs further maturation.

Brian Williams is terrific. He holds NBC together, and I think they are a pretty good group. No wonder they are getting so much heat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 05/27/2008

I second this statement:
Keith Olberman is the only voice of reason in the MSNBC. Chris Mathews is a distant second.

I grew to dislike CNN coverage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 05/27/2008

Screw with Olbermann if you want to and watch your station die!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 05/27/2008
- pizzmoe I'm a Fan of pizzmoe 20 fans permalink

I haven't watched CNN for years (in fact, I hadn't watched any cable news until Olbermann) and I decided to watch a bit during one of the recent primaries. The coverage was terrible!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 05/27/2008
- JJeff88 I'm a Fan of JJeff88 23 fans permalink

Yay! Finally, someone took notice.

I watch a lot of MSNBC in the evening, but wake up to my local NBC affiliate early in the AM.

What I see and hear on MSNBC is often quite different from what's aired on NBC news.

Both are opinionated in their own unique ways:

MSNBC allows a fuller range of opinion. Chris Matthews likes to stir the pot. Obermann is more combative toward Republicans. But Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough lean rightward. And it's rumored Pat Buchanon lives in the basement of MSNBC studios.

Because of its tight time-frame, NBC News (though relying on MSNBC content) must severely edit-down MSNBC's material. Therein lies the danger: The old "shine the flashlight in the closet" deal - Whatever the light illuminates is real. Whatever NBC News elects not to shine it on doesn't exist.

Often the NBC News coverage of a campaign event, debate or a candidates' public statement bears no resemblance to what was actually said or mean.

I remain suspicious of GE. (Remember, Roger Aisles worked there). When Katy Couric hosted "Today", it often sounded like she recited a daily list of Republican/GE talking points handed down from "Corporate"). I can't help but wonder whether MSNBC was created to give GE political cover - to justify favoring the right on their higher-rated NBC broadcast outlet while claiming - "See, we're balanced. We've got Obermann and Matthews on MSNBC."

Or not.

Whatever. I'm glad you guys raised the issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 05/27/2008
- jdenham I'm a Fan of jdenham 7 fans permalink

Maybe Bush and Clinton are upset that NBC and MSNBC are reporting the truth. It can be hard to hear the truth sometimes. Fox is a republican mouthpiece no wonder Bush and Clinton love them. CNN is a conservative network but they do allow the truth to seep into their coverage. If you hear Bush and Clinton complaining about coverage you are more than likely hearing the truth. Keep up the good work NBC and MSNBC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 05/27/2008

With the exception of Olbermann, NBC is not at all progressive. NBC and MSNBC both cheerled for the war and then altered their position to support the war by opposing the only responsible means of ending it -- immediate, safe withdrawal. So MSNBC commentators (with the exception of Olbermann and to a much lesser degree, Matthews) talk against the war but support remaining -- committed to wasting the lives and limbs of young Americans and destroying the US economy for a result that cannot, in any way, justify that loss of life, limb and treasure. As a matter of fact, every life and limb lost and dollar spent is against the objective interests of the United States.

So this morning I watch Moron Joe, who's been noticeably absent, and see in addition to "I'm-a-cute-non-airhead" Mika Zbig, Willy "I know Britney AND Paris, but nothing about news" Geist and, back from retirement -- stupid, nasty, know-nothing, I-was-born-on-third-and-think-I-hit-a-triple -- Tucker Carlson miscommenting on everything from Hillary senor-moment, "you CAN always take what you want" Clinton to the niceness and great experience of John (let's go back and take out Vietnam", 4000+ dead is not enough for a cause that hurts our interests) McCain. McCain, who has no experience whatsoever as commander-in-chief, is being touted by the NBC Moron Joe crowd as experienced.

No, NBC is not progressive despite Olbermann.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 05/27/2008

I started out watching the whole lineup whenever time permitted... Sad, Sad and Sad. Joe Moron (love it) makes me beyond sick along with his sidekick tart Mika, Tweety is so wishy washy (some days he's okay and some days he a bitter pill) but I wholeheartedly agreed with his comment about Clinton's candidacy. Abrams is full of himself and too cutesy by half, soooo yuck (getting ahead on Daddy’s accomplishments). Tuckers replacement; I can't stand the format and have no great like for him. The All Morning "LADIES" line up just sucks and is a new format. Truthfully, it’s a turn off for me. These shrill condescending voices are the pits as I drink my morning coffee to head out of the door. Some of those women really don't have a clue when reporting the news. They are supposed to be “interviewing” their guest yet they get adversarial instead. Whew, it’s comical relief to say the least watching these fools sounding like pit bulls. I wonder how many of their guests return. (I don't know the reasoning for this hodge- podge of a mess format but if it’s an equal opportunity move, it should be taken to primetime. Let a male or two commentate in the morning mix and give a female a show at night, give an exciting, smart less shrill speaking woman some prominence on an opinion show. Note: Not Contessa Brewer (who’s pushing her anyhow, please?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 05/27/2008

Anyway, MSNBC’s only saving grace (at this time) is the opulent and always controversially hilariously astute Olbermann. The only show I watch these days.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 05/27/2008
- philly282 I'm a Fan of philly282 3 fans permalink

great post. despite my disagreements with Scab-borough, msnbc needs him for 'balance'. joe will tout the republican line, esp if they're his 90's style republicans, but occasionally he'll speak out against the gop...same with buchanan. i actually think buchanan is the most honest personality on msnbc. i know some media matters site, will quote all his misstatements, but he doesn't worship at the same altar as mc rove, santorum, and other ex politicos

tucker's lame, and can't do it on his own (he's not white tr@sh enough for the hardcore repubs, and too leave it to beaver for the 'moderates')

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 05/27/2008

Actually Buchanan is an outright Nazi -- a real pro-Hitler Nazi. His latest book (just out) is about WWII and reinforces his last book about WWII which argued (get this) that the US fought on the wrong side during WWII. Buchanan has stated the holacaust is exaggerated, written in favor of several Nazi war criminals who went on trial and is an outright, overt racist. He constatntly fans the flames of racism. Lately, despite despising her, he has taken up Hillary's cause because of the racist nature of her campaign.

It is rumored that he and his sister, Bay Buchanan, were the inspirations used by author Robert Ludlum in his novel The Holcroft Covenant. The main Nazi characters in that book were an incestuous brother and sister couple who collaborated on bringing violent Naziism to the United States and the rest of the world.

The fact that MSNBC actually allows this Nazi piece of garbage Buchanan to be a pundit supposedly commenting on political matters, but actually pushing his view of Naziism whenever he pundits shows how truly backwards NBC is. And the fact people like Olbermann and even Matthews (both of whom know Buchanan is a Nazi) use him, shows he's forced down people's throats by NBC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 05/27/2008
- Wiredwilly I'm a Fan of Wiredwilly 23 fans permalink

Who cares.
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Target : $ 2.50 a gallon

Buy Citgo, Chevron, ANYONE except Exxon / BP.
When Premium hits $ 2.50 a gallon , go back, and switch boycott to anyone not in line with a
$ 2.50 Premium price.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 05/27/2008

as a nice way to end this i will send a link to a new republic article by a confirmed obama supporters msnbc take. i think it proves the point beyond a shadow of a doubt how bad msnbc has become

http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=b48a6936-fb3c-42b0-83c1-f91d1cb3a3dc

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 AM on 05/27/2008

Keith Olberman is the only voice of reason in the MSM. Chris Mathews is a distant second.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 05/27/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

And that statement proves you are insane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 05/27/2008
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