Obama's Appalachia Problem Is Real, But Does It Matter

After months of pundits breaking the electorate into racial categories, the factor of geography is slowly being added to the mix. Obama's alleged problem with white voters is being modified; now the problem seems to be with working class voters in the Appalachian region.

Newsweek recently tried to quantify how race and geography could affect Obama in the fall. They note that while the Appalachian problem is more focused than simply a failure to connect with white working class voters, it is still a big problem:

Appalachia is a big place, encompassing 13 states: southwestern New York, western Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio, West Virginia, western Maryland, western Virginia, eastern Kentucky, eastern Tennessee, western North and South Carolina, and northern Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi. You cannot afford to lose all those states and still win in November. Other pollsters have suggested that the race factor is at least noticeable in a much wider swath of rural America, where 60 million voters reside. One recent Greenberg Quinlan Rosner poll of rural voters in battleground states showed that you are trailing McCain by 9 points (and that Clinton runs even with him). Dee Davis, president of a Kentucky-based advocacy group called the Center for Rural Strategies, points out in a recent article on Salon.com that in June 2004, John Kerry trailed George W. Bush by the same 9-point margin in the same rural battlegrounds.

Your mission is to not wind up like Kerry, who ended up losing the rural vote by 20 points. The "reality," writes Davis, "is that when Democratic candidates run competitively in rural America, they win national elections. And when they get creamed in rural America, they lose."

But Democrats to not need to achieve parity with John McCain among this voting bloc in order to win the election. And one analyst says Obama currently, "is clocking in where he needs to be":

Ruy Teixeira, a Democratic analyst of voting trends, wrote the book on the core issue in the endgame of the party's nomination fight. Its title is "America's Forgotten Majority: Why the White Working Class Still Matters."...

Al Gore lost working-class white voters by 17 percentage points in 2000, even while winning the national popular vote. Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts lost them by 23 points in 2004, while running within three points of President Bush over all. Mr. Teixeira suggests that Mr. Obama can win the presidency if he comes within 10 to 12 percentage points of Mr. McCain with these voters, as Democratic candidates for the House did in the 2006 midterm election.

Still, what can be done to shore up support? Greg Sargent has an idea:

All this renewed talk about Appalachia reminds me that Obama privately promised John Edwards that he'd undertake a poverty tour in the general election. Why not take that tour, with Edwards at his side, right through the heart of Appalachia?

And Will Thomas reported on Sen. Jim Webb's intense interest and knowledge about the troubles faced by the Scot-Irish community that makes up the Appalachian population at issue. Webb has been repeatedly mentioned as a vice president for Obama, and could help to balance out support.

Comments

[Daisy1111]

To GoodGuysAndBadGuys:

I can support my candidate (Hillary ) to th eend while simultaneoulsy accepting her loss and working for a DEM win in November for Obama.

I can send the DNC a message about the intra-party treatment of Hillary while simulatneously beginning to make a case for Obama's candidiacy in November.

It's called POLITICS. And when it comes to politics I can metaphorically chew gum and walk at the same time.

I'm a lifelong democrat. I know what I'm doing. I'm the female Hillary supporter you need to make a case to vote for Obama to other Hillary supporters.

I also know that Obama will have a tough road in November. I hate to see his online supporters making comments that lose him votes.

If anyone from Obama central is reading this, send your supporters a memo.

Stop the Hillary bashing. Start making Obama a viable choice for blue collar workers.

And please don't let Obama go windsurfing before November.

:-0

[NorVaGal]

I'm a lifelong Democrat, also. In addition, I am a life-long woman. And, I DO NOT SUPPORT HILLARY CLINTON. I do NOT feel that I have to "make a case for you to support Sen. Obama" in November. I assume that you and other Hillary supporters are ADULTS who have the ability to evaluate GOP policies vesus DEM policies. If you feel that McCain represents your best interests, then please do vote for him.

What you REALLY want is for us to succumb to your vile threats and blackmail schemes. Sen. Obama is doing a great job of selling himself. Sen. Clinton is doing a great job of commiting political suicide. Do whatever you please with your "lifelong democrat" vote. But, don't expect for me to kiss your butt while you thrash around in spite.

As you say, it's called POLITICS--- NOTcrown Queen Hillary.

[pupbayer]

Daisy1111 has threatened you and blackmailed you? Really? Is that anything like the racial backlash threat we read about on here sometime ago if Obama isn't elected?

Yes, as you say Obama is doing a great job of selling himself...and we know to whom.

You are right that you do not have to make a case to the rest of us lifelong Democrats and female Clinton supporters. You are right that we can decide how to vote. And we will.

Can you say President McCain?

In the meantime, NorVa, take a chill pill. You sound so upset. November is a ways off. It'll get worse before it is over. We dont' want you to stroke before then.

[olivia]

Tell you what Daisy:

Obama is about to greatly expand his campaign and he has LOTS of money. Why don't you apply for a job with his campaign. He's doing SO POORLY not following YOUR advice.

Since you're so sincere. About wanting him to win in November. So sincere you're asking people to pledge not to vote for him.

[Daisy1111]

Oh jeeze. Olivia, do you think only DEMOCRATS vote in November?

Do you think Obama's win over Hillary guarantees a win over McCain?

Do you really believe this?

[Nolewoman]

I am an avid Obama supporter. I find the offensive comments against Hillary unacceptable also. Please do not judge us by these offensive few, or at least I hope they are few in the grand scheme of things. I want your vote in November. Our real enemy is McSame, not each other. Please join us and help defeat McBush in the general. Thank you.

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

"I want your vote in November. "

nolewoman, go look at daisy's profile. daisy is urging people to sign petitions stating that they won't vote for obama. don't fall for daisy's appearance - it's fraudulent (much like... guess who)

[Daisy1111]

I hear you Nolewoman.

Before reading your post I was thinking: Let's hope all the "We don't need Hillary supporters or blue collar workers to win" people refrain from posting on other sites.

On HuffPo -- they're in an echo chanmber so it doesn't metter.

But if they start balthering "we don't need those votes" elsewhere they will harm the DEM candidate.

And I am way past grieving Hillary's loss. I'm onto November.

[olivia]

Obama is not going to get 100% of the votes. SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK!!!!!

You will have to vote your conscience in November.

I am going to vote for the candidate who has, from the beginning, said what he believes, told the truth, and asked voters to accept him for exactly what he is. There is only one candidate who has been so honest and so real.

[TN]

This applies to disenfranchised republicans also. They now think that both parties stink but the dems are a little less putrid.

We've got to get heard on energy. Most are still buying the line, we need to drill more in america. I'll tell you it is the conservative radio that kills us.

I actually heard on conservative republican propaganda radio the other day the talking head say that, "see the dems were wrong, they said we went to iraq for oil, but see we didn't get any oil, so see they were wrong that is not what we went their for" and people believe it because it is all they hear.

What did they think we were going to bring the oil home in stockpiles for the good ole usa.

Get out, strike up conversations with as many people, especially the elderly about gas prices and the dems energy solutions. Jobs creation thru solar, wind and construction materials. A kilowat saved is a kilowat earned.

Lets get to work dems and save our great US of A - thanks to the soldiers and their families for their sacrifice - lets bring them back alive!

[Daisy1111]

You make good points TN.

But it didn't help when Donna Brazile goeson CNN and claims the democrats can win without the white blue collar worker.

Doanna Brazile -- a DNC leader is making these statements on national TV.

And now Obama supporters are repeating them.

[Paul]

Obama could do one thing that would solidify Appalachia and give McCain fits:

Obama should pledge to close the borders to illegal immigration.

[Aleka4]

Yea building walls worked so well for Germany

[LiberalBuzz]

False analogy. I'm still amazed at how stupidly people pull out that old canard about Germany.

Germany's wall were to keep people IN.

ARE there any fences in your yard (assuming you are not an apartment dweller)?

We have them to keep out predators, wandering kids, people with no good in their hearts. It won't stop ANYONE dead set on getting in but it is nonetheless a deterrent.

I would daresay to all those who advocate open borders and amnesty for all to please sign a list wherein you will take in a family of illegals at YOUR OWN COST.

There is nothing wrong with walls to keep out an invasion.

[Peteyman]

That would be the Soviet Union

[olivia]

Obama will pledge to do what he believes is right for America. He doesn't pander.

[Paul]

It isn't pandering if he actually does it.

What exactyly, is the problem keeping an unlimited supply of exploitable labor outside our borders?

[DennyCrane]

I get so tired of these folks who say Obama has a problem with working class whites and therefore, he'd be a weak nominee. Instead, I'd like to see a pundit say America has a problem with working class whites. We have a problem any group of people who would choose to vote for someone like John McCain all because his opponent is black. When are you going to get over your prejudices and join the rest of ous the 21st century. I don't care if that sounds elitist. This country got stuck with George Bush for 8 years because too many people vote for or against a candidate for the dumbest reasons.

[talkingclock]

Appalachia has the problem, not Obama, but they will get on the train soon enough. They already know what it is like to not join the rest of society or at least remember that it is not that great to be stuck in a paradigm.

[cambridgedude]

Gee, and they thought they were stuck in a shit-hole, now they learn they have been upgraded to a paradigm. That'll make 'em vote for the black guy.

[Nolewoman]

I am from the Deep South, born and bred. Don't bet on them getting on the train, ever. At least not in this lifetime. They are NOT voting for the black man. We must win without them and I think that can be done.

[citadelgrrl05]

we don't need appalachia to win..if he looses wv, but wins virginia there you go we got it. if he looses one state he has to make sure he picks up another!!!

[JDJase]

yeah...doesnt work

Sacrifice losing Ohio and picking up Colorado? Still loses

[NorVaGal]

Regardless of who each party's nominee is, some votes are going to be lost somewhere. McCain will lose some evangelical votes, but may pick up some moderates. Obama will lose some white voters, but may pick up many new voters-- young, independents, and crossover Repubs. Clinton will lose some black voters, but may pick up votes in Appalachia. It's all a matter of different scenarios and them hedging their bets. ALL of them had better have more than one electoral map strategy-- also known as Plans B, C, and Z.

[gfields1911]

Here's a great Obama Administration: Pres - Obama VP - Kathleen Sebelius AG - John Edwards Sec State - Bill Richardson Sec Defense - Jim Webb

[qdog112]

WHERE'S BIDEN?

[NorVaGal]

You're right, qdog. Can't leave out Biden or the other great candidates who ran. Dems are truly blessed to have an abudance of talent this election season.

[talkingclock]

I like your choices as well.

[BeyondTheBull]

I think your choices are excellent!!!

[DennyCrane]

Almost right. Joe Biden should be Sec of State and Chuck Hagel should be Sec of Defense.

[abby4ever]

Hmmm. Not bad.

[snobama]

except webb ... they are all a bunch of losers...

he cant win OH or PA without the hillary supporters strickland and rendell... -- he can dream on...

obama is gonna lose BIG in nov... and don't whine then that you didn't see it coming...

[Marichu]

Obama needs to connect with all segments of the population. What I find mystifying is that he as a child grew up in a fiscally austere household, where his mother had to use food stamps. Having lived in near poverty he should be able speak the language of these people. How can such an articulated, charismatic, intelligent individual not reach out to this large swath of Americans? Some may blithely categorize them as racist. I don’t see it as such. But if that were the case, racism is just ignorance and fear of what is perceived to be different and unknown.

Therefore Obama needs to go out there to all these states and work twice as hard at breaking through any stereotype these working class whites could or may have. He needs to show them who and what he is and what he can and will do for the country.

It was a grave error on his part not to vigorously campaign in West Virginia and Kentucky and more or less cede it to Clinton. Many there could have seen this as a snub from an “elitist” who didn’t think they were worth his time. Obama needs to repair this misconception.

It will not be easy for Obama to transcend through preconceived opinions, but if anyone can do it he can.

[Daisy1111]

Marichu:

Finally -- somone I can agree with,

:)

[minnehot]

Wishful thinking is a wonderful thing!

Keep it up!

Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan will be Obama's gift to McCain this year!

Thank you Oh so very much

[notthistime]

After he wraps up the nomination I am sure Obama will circle back. At that point in the election with Hillary being favored to win WV, the lack of time for him to work the state (i.e. allow people to get to know him), it made more sense (to me anyway) to save his money at this phase and focus on spending more time in states where he stands a better chance of winning the primary election and in states that he will have to be competitive with McCain in the fall.

[Marichu]

nottistime

The bottom line is he has to go to these states. He has to show a human face to these people. By talking to them and listening to them he is showing that they are valued as citizens of this country. Talk to anyone who has been to one of his rallies, speech stumps, political events, and you'll understand the point I am trying to make.

[BeyondTheBull]

If anyone can change the opinions of the WV and KY folks, Obama can. He won't change a huge number, but whatever he can do will be "progress". Perhaps Sen Byrd will campaign with him in WV.

[NorVaGal]

Sen. Obama has run a 50-state strategy and been very successful at it. He knows that EVERY state is important, and intends to continue campaigning vigorously, especially in states that don't know him well.

Once the Dem nomination is official, he will make it a priority to get to know the voters in each state, their specific concerns and needs, and allow them to learn more about him and how he hopes to help them. What little I know about Appalachia (beyond popular stereotypes) is that they are very suspicious of outsiders, regardless of their race. I agree that Sen. Obama should have spent more time there, but, I appreciated that he was unwilling to go there and lie about how much he loves them and that's his favorite place to be (ala Bill Clinton), while never setting foot there except when he's angling for votes, and not previously having done a thing for that place he loved so well.

[hugs4u]

But if that were the case, racism is just ignorance and fear of what is perceived to be different and unknown.

You just describe the people of WV and KY.

[Marichu]

hugs4u

I'll have to disagree with your statement. If you feel this way and can make such broad sweeping generalizing, what separates you from your stereotype of the people of West Virginia and Kentucky?

[olivia]

This is Appalachia's problem. They need more time to catch up with the rest of the country.

Progress has been made. Just not everywhere, at the same pace.

[Daisy1111]

Olivia -- you're starting to sound like a GOP [plant pretending to be a Democrat.

[olivia]

Whatever.

[speakingtruth2power]

Ridiculous!!! Try reading a profile and a

fans list before making remarks like that.

[riverhouse]

I agree with you, Olivia. It is their problem. I do believe, however, that Obama will be able to connect with working class whites, excluding the racists, once Hillary stops picking at the race scab.

[elizaW]

nonconformist 2

You proclaim that democrats will win in November. Why do I think you believed they'd win in 2000 and 2004? My point is that your insistence on this fact is not helpful to democrats. Republicans seem to be better at listening to criticsm and the flaws in their reasoning and then finding a way to move ahead. Many democrats, especially ones on this blog, seem to think their fancy education and intelligence means if they think it - it will be so. Unfortunately politics isn't a movie. You can build it, doesn't mean anyone will come. Obama has a huge problem with working class voters. Ignore it at your (the demorcatic party) own peril.

[ghop]

Did you even read the article? Obama doesn't have a "huge" problem with the working class. He has the same problem with the working class that the last three Democratic nominees (including Bill Clinton), have had. We will have to work hard to get him elected, like we would any Democratic nominee.

My "fancy education" helps when it comes to reading the articles I post on. Guess it was worth it, after all.

[granamica]

Obama has problems with his "fancy education" with people who have issues with the lack of their education. Oregon is not Portland. It has the working poor, the high school educated working class voter who do not begrudge someone going to college. Most of the working poor in Applachia should be behind Obama on his vote for vet benefits alone. That's their ticket into another class. They could bring it back to their communities if they want. There is a way to honor others without belittling their experiences. I am directing that statement at the people who feel badly about themselves, like the undereducated voters. Be proactive rather than reactive.

[Freedomscap]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Go back and read the article. It doesn't read that Obama has a huge problem with working class voters.

If we can't even agree on our comprehension of what we read, then I don't know what to tell you.

[navalvet]

First of all, the election is more than five months, away, plenty of time for Senator Obama to work on his real deficits. If WVA. Tennesee and Kentucky were the only problems, there is no question that he would be a "shoe in." However, if Ohio remained Repbulican; if PA were not to go Democratic, and if he does not quickly mend fences in Florida, he has to play catch up in all the other battleground states. The senator's bowling and beer tour did not convince voters that he shared their concerns but the junior senator from Illinois is intelligent and may learn how to reach those voters.

My union, which supported Sen. Clinton, is already educating its members on what a disaster Sen. McCain would be to working folk. It has started firing up the retired members, mostly women, about the Arizona senator's health plans. Well before the convention, Sen. Obama will find it easy to make new alliances in preparation for November. He and his supporters will realize how to unite the Democrats and bring many of his current adversaries on board for the real contest. He ignores them, at his own peril.

[timetorevolt]

When has the Democratic party relied on these voters in the past? These are the people who continually vote againt their self interest because of their ignorance.

[marijam]

Oh, I think Bill Clinton may have won twice because of them.

[ejay579]

Bill Clinton relied on Ross Perot sucking off enough of these voters in 1992 from Bush Sr. to win. So now we are down to possibly once. Even in 1996 he won less than half of the white voters.

[olivia]

Obama has already so changed the electoral map that I don't think past performance necessarily predicts the future anymore.

[NorVaGal]

Actually, marijam, I think Bill Clinton may have won twice because of the African-American voters, more so than by the Appalachians. The GOP always splits the white vote, especially blue collar, less educated, and lower income. African-Americans have overwhelmingly been Dem loyalists who have often tipped the scales in close states. Republicans know this and do not depend on the black electorate to win. Obama can win sans Appalachia, by building alternative alliances, also.

[ghop]

No, Bill lost the majority of these voters. The Dems have won since the 1960's by coalition building with many different groups, not by relying on white blue-collar voters.
Think twice about that when you consider throwing AA voters under the bus in support of Hillary.

[PJay1]

And as has been noted, Hillary Clinton has problems with AA voters, which she and her husband created.

So Obama won't get the KKK vote of Appalachia.
Guess what? Neither would Hillary, no matter what the polls (of 400 or so likely voters) are saying today.

Well, since there are racists who won't vote for Obama, and god forbid, *something* could happen to him (in June), maybe we should just skip the election and crown Hillary as Mccain's vp.

[JackLivigni]

Barack Obama will win Pennsylvania hands down, just like Kerry did. Philadelphia will swing the whole state, and Philadelphia will be overwhelmingly and heavily for Obama in November, and the numbers of people voting in Philly and suburbs will overwhelm any McCain attempts at taking this state.

Obama needs to focus on Ohio. I believe Jim Webb will be able to be the bridge for Scots-Irish to join into the Obama movement and find a voice and an identity within this movement. Currently, most Italians, and Scots-Irish even in Philadelphia see Clinton as "their candidate" - just like a White candidate in local inner city politics, the type of white guy that would be their unions pick in the inner city. Jim Webb can be their point guy within the ticket. He is different than John Edwards... he has a rough, down to earth, in your face type persona that I think Blue Collars will understand. His narrative is their narrative. He can bridge that gap. All Obama needs is Ohio.

[marijam]

Obama is going to lose, and lose big, if he thinks he can win without the Hillary voters, then the Democrats will lose another one, just like Al Gore, John Kerry, et al. The Democratic party never learns.

[olivia]

Nothing would make some of you happy except for Obama to just hand the nomination over to the runner-up.

I don't see what Obama can really do. You'll have to vote your conscience in November.

You're welcome to join the party and help fix America.

[ghop]

Nobody is arguing that he's going to win without Hillary supporters. People are arguing that he can win without the Appalachian blue-collar demographic. This is entirely possible, since Bill did it twice. 30% of Dems from Kentucky voted for Bush in 2004, this is not a demographic that breaks heavily for Dems in the GE.
Obama should still work for these votes, but arguing that they are the key to a Dem win doesn't make sense if you look at history.

[Kynn]

And Clinton can't win without Obama's voters.

So, I think she should play nice, and all you people that believe you speak for her and everyone who has voted for her should remember that one.

[qdog112]

Maybe you should concentrate on McCain's problems.

He has just separated from Hagee and Parsley which will hurt with the evangelicals.

He's got lobbyists running his campaign. He's a warmonger who lacks economy knowledge.

Barr will take away votes. He's got wife, temper, medical and age issues.

Did I mention Bush and fund raising issues? His biggest problem is B-A-R-A-R-K.

[NorVaGal]

Well, marijam, we've certainly LEARNED about the Republican Party. Eight years of Bush and Cheney just FINALLY may be the education that we all had been needing.

Hillary voters are welcome to vote for whomever they like. However, if they're REALLY the outraged feminists that they've been claiming to be, they will be shown for the fakes they are if they vote for McCain. (Not to mention the fate they are condemning their own daughters to, in order to slake their own spite). The GOP's 'big tent' isn't THAT big. (LOL)

[snobama]

kerry won PA by 1.5%.... (hands-down?? ) after rendell threw everything he had behind kerry.

obama will loose PA and OH because he is a aweak candidate. Besides he wont have the full support of rendell and strickland ... - dont expect them to go all out after the way obama and his cult have behaved. The went as far as to caat ed rendell racist... -- remember ???

[qdog112]

Rendell and Strickland are both politicians and they will hitch up to the nominee in order to curry favors from the future president.

I happen to think that like any other job, these guys aspire to get to the top. If that means helping one get to the WH or riding another's coat tail, they all want NATIONAL prominence.

If they have the juice to deliver - they will.

[Daisy1111]

To GoodGuysBadGuys & Mr, Kinoko:

You have made vast assumptions about who I am and how I live based on my points about WHY Obama does not connect with blue collar workers.

I have been recycling most likely before you grdauated HS.

I amaze my neighbors with my $12 monthly water bill when their water bills go as high as $75.

I work from home and putless than 8000 miles on my car each year.

I buy all my fruits and vegetables from local farmers and I grow citrus fruit in my yard giving away organes and grapefruits to my neighbors.

Bottom line: I'm a progressive when it comes to the ecology HOWEVER when "selling" my candidate to the untrusting, I know how to make a case.

Obama needs somone like me posting on the net in October to win himvotes. Your left wing rationales will send possible voters running away from him.

[MrKINOKO]

Daisy, I will respect your opinion, and leave it at that. I am glad you are contributing to the health and well-being of both America, and planet Earth, and commend you for doing so. Outstanding.

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

you bought that?

[closetodemfection]

I like your style.

[AnnieinOR]

not progressive enough if you were willing to support a hawk that is complicit in the deaths of the more than 4000 dead soldiers.

[Daisy1111]

Non sequitor, Annie. Typical.

[olivia]

Spot on.

Hillary cannot talk about the war. Her supporters cannot talk about the war. And if she were on the ticket in the fall the Democrats could not differentiate themselves from McCain on the war. This war, or the next one some people are wishing for.

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

"Obama needs somone like me posting on the net in October to win himvotes. Your left wing rationales will send possible voters running away from him. "

half your posts on here essentially advocate pandering and making promises in order to get votes. that course of action is part of the reason we are where we are today. that's called politics as usual, and if that's what you want, by all means, continue to watch as america goes down the tubes because they continue to buy the bs they are fed rather than apply critical thinking to the situation. as I said below,if america is still full of idiots and fools, then we deserve mccain. if people don't want truth but just want empty promises, then we deserve mccain. it is what it is.

[Daisy1111]

It's not about PANDERING.

It's about highlighting which of the BO policies SERVE blue collar worker instead of asking these people to travel to Europe to see how true progressives live.

Jeeze - let me guess. Did you vote for Nader last election?.

[Kynn]

Was that a job application?

[Daisy1111]

No - I'm 100% self employed I don;t need a job.

That was a response to a debate further down.

[mhopgood123]

Exactly my thoughts. Some in the media, like Newsweek, love to do polls on the so called racial divide. This is about ignorant vs. enlightened., regardless of color, class or race. Many white,working class people are for Obama. Only people who wont vote for him solely because he is black do not deserve to be in the Democratic party. WE don't want their votes. Obama can win this with a coalition of new voters, young people, blacks, hispanics ,progressives, crossover republicans, working class people who want a better America and women who are interested in a better world for their children.

[marijam]

Hillary Clinton has half the votes, more than half if you count Florida. I don't think the Democratic party can afford to throw away half the Democratic votes and I sure as heck don't think that half the Democratic party is racist.

[ghop]

Yes, Hillary has a lot of supporters. So does Obama. The reality is that only one of them will be the nominee. The party has to decide whether they will follow the rules set out and agreed upon by both contenders, or toss them in favor of the argument of one contender.

Also, the 'dream ticket' appeals to Dems, but may not play so well in the GE. Since both candidates are light on experience (remember that Hillary has only one term in the senate), either one would need to balance the ticket. If you are a senator with light experience, you don't balance your ticket with another senator with light experience.

[Cyndee1113]

You people keep talking about Hillary supporters. What about Obama supporters. I would never vote for Hillary Clinton.

[ejay579]

The Democratic Party does not count Florida. If Hillary counts Florida she must not be a Democrat. In effect, Hillary has less than half of the votes. Who says anything about disregarding Hillary's voters? They are welcome to come aboard. If they choose not to I'll leave it to their own devices as to how they are going to explain it to their daughters why they have to go to war in Iran. I'll leave it up to them to explain to their thrice pregnant 21 year old daughters about the good old days when there use to be family planning. I'll leave it up to them to explain to their thrice pregnant 21 year old daughters why their fellow hamburger flippers at Mickey Ds is making more money than them.

[olivia]

Less than half if you actually count FOUR WHOLE CAUCUS STATES. You people keep repeating her lie, and I'm going to keep calling you on it.

[TheQuis]

Question: How many of the Hillary Voters voted for Bill Clinton 16 Years ago?

At the time he ran for The Presidency he was a 45 year old Governor of Arkansas (which had low ratings for education and economics even though that was his platform) with soaring rhetoric and was know to be cool with the young crowd and un-patriotic because he smoke weed and dodged the draft? How many of you voted for HIM?

Like Obama he was know less for his po9licy in his speeches and more for his ability to tell a story and cite personal examples (victim in the raptors technique)?

What are the differences in the Bill Clinton of 16 years ago and the Barack Obama of right now?

[Daisy1111]

Bill Clinton said: I feel you pain.

He did not say: 'We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK'... (Obama)

Bill CLinton understood kitchen table issues (which were ignored by Bush Senior).

And if you were voting in that election you will know that Republicans stayed home to punish Bush SR. for raisingtaxes.

And the religious right stayed home to punish Bush SR. for appointing a liberal Supreme judge.

[Fabienne]

And many voters voted for Perot.

[TheQuis]

You're right about Some of the Repubs staying home. Also you have to remember at that point Bush was actually a popular president with a decent approval rate because of his (at the time) perceived victory in IRAQ.

So for you it's that Bill Clinton had more empathy than Barack does. That's fair. Will that be the reason you won't vote for him in the fall versus McCain?

[ghop]

Well, thanks to the Bush/McCain economic policies, folks can't afford to fill up the tanks of their SUV's, heat their homes ot 72 degrees, or afford to buy as much food as we used to.

Bill was good at talking the talk, not so good at walking the walk. NAFTA, his disastrous welfare "reform", and his (and Hillary's) failure to build effective bipartisan support for health care hardly addressed the kitchen table issues that people care about.

Why do you think the Democratic party suffered so many losses under Bill's presidency? Why do you think "I feel your pain" became such a punchline?

Don't get me wrong, I think there were positive advances made under Bill Clinton, but looking at his presidency through rose-colored glasses does not make a compelling argument.

[olivia]

Daisy you are a poseur. It's more than obvious.

[Fabienne]

The Bill Clinton of 16 years ago was far less principled than is Obama.

[marijam]

I don't remember Bill Clinton provoking thousands of supporters to bully and intimidate Bush I supporters.