Mich. DNC member: Plan to split delegates flawed

LANSING, Mich. — A top Clinton supporter in Michigan said Thursday the state Democratic Party's plan to split the convention delegates between Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama is "fatally flawed."

Democratic National Committee member Joel Ferguson sent a letter Thursday to the co-chairs of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee seeking to seat all of Michigan's delegates based on the results of the disputed Jan. 15 election. Failing that, he says the pledged delegates should get a half-vote each and superdelegates should get a full vote, a plan Florida also is proposing.

Clinton, who won Michigan's primary, wants to have the full delegation seated. Obama, who is close to having enough delegates to lock up the nomination, has opposed that, noting he took his name off the Michigan ballot after the DNC said it would strip the state of its delegates as punishment for moving up its primary date in violation of party rules.

The rules committee is to meet Saturday to hear plans for seating delegates from Michigan and Florida, which was also stripped of its delegates for holding a January primary.

His letter puts him at odds with the Michigan Democratic Party's chairman and executive committee, which support a proposed 69-59 split.

State Democratic Chairman Mark Brewer disagreed with Ferguson.

Under Ferguson's plan, Clinton would get 73 pledged delegates for winning the Michigan presidential primary, while "uncommitted" would get 55. The Clinton campaign has maintained that Obama should not get any Michigan delegates even though many of his supporters voted for "uncommitted."

"I am convinced that neither the RBC nor the DNC have the authority to take pledged delegates allocated to Hillary Clinton by virtue of the popular vote and assign them to either Uncommitted or to Barack Obama as the challenge seeks," Ferguson wrote in his letter.

The plan to split the delegates 69-59 was drawn up by a four-member team of prominent Michigan Democrats.

"We spent a lot of time working with both campaigns trying to figure out a solution," DNC member Debbie Dingell, who helped draw up the plan, said Thursday. "This is a consensus that was agreed to and the entire executive committee supported. At this point, we're fighting for a principle that's important."

Comments

[Marcospinelli]

In case you hadn't heard Hillary on the campaign trail today, she's back dissing Obama.

It's a reprise of her "Enough of the speeches!" speech, and "I've been in the White House for 8 years (of 3 am's), and you have to know what to do". Interesting comment coming from a woman who didn't know what was going on in the White House, and what her husband was up to downstairs at midnight.

She's gone negative again, just in time for the last 3 primaries. It is her pattern, and predicted.

[Freedomscap]

Exactly. We, the American people, are the victims of 2 sick political families -- the Bush and Clintons. You know when you have someone that is crazy and they bring you down to their level.

The fact that we are even trying to make sense of nonsense -- it's nuts.

[PAposter]

I saw her, with those big ol' eyes, and that condescending tone. She can't stand that this rookie is kicking her ass.

[condew]

8 years eh? Being married to the president is not serving in elected office, nor is being married to a governor. As far as I can tell, her time in the senate is the sum total of her "experience", and one campaign to get into the senate plus one reelection campaign is the sum total of her experience running for office. I'm not impressed.

I am impressed that out of Bill's picadillos she managed to blackmail the Democratic party into finding her a nice safe seat to run for, and now she's blackmailing the party again, it's just not clear what she is demanding. Is it the VP slot, Majority leader in the senate, or a Supreme Court appointment? I doubt it is anything as small as getting the Dems to pay off the enormous debt she ran up by being fiscally irresponsible in this campaign.

[livesimply]

I suspect if the primaries were held today, Obama would take Michigan and Clinton would take Florida and they would STILL split the delegates 'cause that's the way it's done. This Ferguson guy makes no sense at all. Am I missing something?

[LouisPWu]

The final solution. Hillary accepts defeat, runs as an independent with Joe Lieberman as her running mate.

[obamagal]

I read on another thread today that the blogger thought the time had passed to run as an Independent.

Does anyone know for sure? Link?

[Kingbreaker]

If that's true, then it certainly ends any discussion, whatsoever, of HRC running as a spoiler. I mean, COME ON - her word is her bond!

[/sarcasm]

[olivia]

There's always the McCain ticket. I would put nothing past her. I think she's sell out her own husband and daughter to get into the OO. Maybe she already has.

[Marcospinelli]

Funny you should say that, because Richard Goodstein, Democratic strategist, one of Joe Lieberman's most vocal supporters who was behind the dirty tricks during the Connecticut primary in 2006 against Lamont, is surfacing on cable news as a Clinton supporter.

[MizFlagPin]

Wouldn't be surprised. Of course she would be defeated. At least 50% of people who voted early on in the primary for Hillary wouldn't vote for Hillary today. Along with the low % of Dems that would vote for her as an Indepedent, she would have to fight McCain and Barr for the a share of their votes.

[bygollymissmolly]

You really gotta love this guy wanting to give 55 delegates to "uncommitted".

If the people on this committee give any representation to MI, I will be furious. I can see some reasoning behind seating delegates from FL because everyone's name was on the ballot. The election was on name recognition only, but that's OK, at least everyone had a fighting chance.

But MI is another story. If they have to seat any delegates, they should seat half the number as "uncommitted" and draw their names out of a hat. Those delegates can then go to the convention and chose whomever they please.

But, it's going to be a moot question soon because I believe that Obama has enough supers committed to him so that after CO and SD vote, he will have enough to even go over Hillary's 2210 number. Then what is she going to say?

[Freedomscap]

She is going to say that he didn't win fair and square and voters have been disenfranchised and therefore, for the sake of the voters, she must go to the convention floor in Denver.

Pelosi is a wuss, too. Now she is saying late June. Didn't they say, early June.

[PAposter]

Why is everyone catering to these 2 has-beens?

[condew]

Yeh, I'd say the vote for "uncommitted" in this case is indistinguishable from "anybody but Clinton", and in the current situation, that would have to be a vote for Obama. Those 55 delegates belong to Obama.

[Raymondf]

With all the super dels. Your individual vote doesn't count so why vote. The Super dels. are going to pick their favorite. Which may not be your favorite, so your vote is wasted.

[zippywpinhead]

as usual, you have displayed that marvelous political acumen of yours...

[Raymondf]

Well thank you I just love you.

[izAriver]

You must not understand the system. Go back and check it out. I'm sure it's all on the DNC web site. Like any form, you must adhere to the rules of the form and vote according to those rules. Like I did. H. Clinton proposes a "solution" which

[Freedomscap]

Their favourite. The superdelegates are choosing the candidate with the most elected delegates.

Listen, would you prefer that they chose who you want? What about us that voted in mass for Obama and the fact that he got the most pledged delegats -- what should we do, just go along?

[condew]

The one fix we need when this is over is to eliminate "superdelegates". Hillary has demonstrated that their existence encourages mischief, and they are too spineless to act in any emergency anyway.

[Liam]

That's only true when it's close. There are about 700-800 super delegates out of over 4000 total. It is possible to win pledged delegates in large enough margin to render the supers powerless.

Not in this case, perhaps, but at least here in NH, we had no way of knowing it would turn out this way, so our votes were quite important to us.

Liam.

[missjabez]

Mark my words, nothing will make Clinton and Co. happy. Give them the MI and FLA delegates, free and clear and they'll demand something else. Probably they'll say don't count the caucauses because they're controlled by those pesky activists, and, oh, Hillary lost most of them. The only thing that would make them happy would be if Obama said, "Ok, Hillary, here's all my delegates. You win." Somebody needs to stand up to these thugs.

[JRandomPoster]

Give them MI and FL, and next they'll demand that the caucus delegates shouldn't be counted.

[PAposter]

Yep, "JR", they've already said they are unconstitutional, was she surprised there would be caucuses, or had she always planned to discount them?

[Kingbreaker]

Bill Clinton is already hinting that the number of pledged delegates from caucus states should be reduced. He's already got the red nose. What a klown.

[Freedomscap]

That's exactly right. The idea that after all this, people will vote for Hillary is ridiculous. This is manicial. And that Debbie Schultz, what is wrong with her? I'm sure Debbie's husband fools around on her, too.

[PAposter]

LMAO, "Freedom", why would you say that? I agree, LOL!

[MsLiz]

When I see Debbie Wasserman Shultz, I think of the Wasserman test.

[PAposter]

I agree, "missjabez", nothing short of the nominee will be good enough. Every time one of the reporters try to ask that question, they go off on some tangent about something irrelevant.

[olivia]

Nothing will satisfy Hillary & Followers short of Obama just stepping aside and handing her the nomination.

[ByersL]

Yep, you got it. They'll contest even what the states have asked for. She's hoping to terrorize the delegates between now and August to scare them into voting for her. Look at that poor stooge in the Virgin Islands--they must have threatened or paid him off!

[Marcospinelli]

There it is. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida congresswoman and Clinton supporter) just announced on Hardball that even if everybody agreed to give Hillary Clinton all of the pledged delegates from Florida, it would still leave Obama in the lead, and that Hillary isn't dropping out because "the rules include superdelegates, too, and they need to choose the strongest candidate, the one more likely to win the general election". In her opinion, that's Clinton, and Clinton isn't dropping out of the race.

Clinton is busing in protesters to stand outside the DNC's meeting on Saturday to protest, ala post-2000 election in Florida. Get ready for the circus, sure to be seen on every news cast.

[Sparty1]

I can't stand that woman. Her and that nasal-husky voice just drive me crazy. Maybe if she didn't come on tv and move the delegate bar every week I could get over it.

[Freedomscap]

Exactly. It will be drama and mess and no one will want to do anything with any Democrats. This is just like the movie Recount where they bused in people to demonstrate and stopped the hand count and Bush won. History repeats. Clearly, Clinton doesn't want Obama to win.

If Hillary genuinely cared about America and it's people, she would want to see a Democrat in office. But no, she wants to win or no Democrat win -- that's what she is saying, that's who she is.
We've all said it repeatedly and it's true. However, her supporters are just a crazy and she is. Loser type people, vampires.

[JiminNC]

These people are nuts! Every state in the country will be moving up next election. We'll be starting primaries right after Obama's inauguration.

[Freedomscap]

That's funny. They don't know what they want, except Hillary for president. The idea is: even if Hillary were to get everything she wanted at the Rules on Saturday, when she won't, by the way, because it violates the DNC rules, she still isn't winning. So why is she even bothering?

It's like a crazy person and I understand now why Bill has girlfriends outside their marriage.

[JRandomPoster]

"They don't know what they want, except Hillary for president."

You'd think that by now folks would have had enough of putting the ends before the means in this nation.

[Raymondf]

I'm registered Non-Partisan, so it makes no difference who the DNC chooses as their candidate, but really and truly, if you want to win in November. Better choose Hillary, because she is stronger than Obama or McCain. If Obama is the nominee. According to all the polls I've seen Hillary if nominated she would be 14% points ahead of McCain. With 15 toss up states it would be close, but Hillary would win. On the other hand Obama is only a little less than 10% points ahead and the 15 toss up states would almost assure McCain victory. Only because 10 of the toss up states are big hunting states. Obama's stance on guns would not help him at all.

[Raymondf]

Either have a recount in both states, or seat all delegates.

[izAriver]

Why are those the only options?

[Freedomscap]

You can't seat all delegates because they violated the rules and the rules state that they get half.

Why can the Republicans be OK, with the fact that they are getting half, and we, the Democrats, are having so much drama on this end.

[PAposter]

I believe the rules say you lose all your delegates, I believe seating half is a very generous compromise.

[obamagal]

Getting half was the compromise the Republicans reached. The DNC said they'd get none if they went ahead and had an early primary.

It is only Hillary screaming out about this. She was fine with it - signed the pledge - verbally stated they wouldn't count - until Feb. 5 rolled around and there was no coronation.

Unbelievablely poor sportsmanship, a control freak, a narsty narsty person.

[PAposter]

What would be counted in Michigan? How many times did Obama go into a state trailing and not close the gap? None of the votes are reflective of informed voters, how could they be when they never really had a chance to meet the candidates, including the earlier candidates. The votes should only be used to determine delegates for the next election, not added to either candidate.

[JadedAggie]

Way to present 2 options that would make Michigan and Florida MORE important for violating the rules.

[BBackSoon]

Recount what? Obama was not on the MI Ballot.

This is another case of the rules don't apply to the Clintons.

[Raymondf]

Put him on the ballot.

[kellygrrrl]

anyone else freaked out by Rep Debbie Wasserman-Schultz from FLA.?

[izAriver]

Yes.

[Freedomscap]

Totally. I can't even remember what she said to comment on it. I can't remember because it didn't even make sense.

[PAposter]

I am totally freaked out by her!

[MizFlagPin]

But once it was brought to her attention what Pelosi said and what other members of the house said, she shut up and said she agreed the nomination will be settled in June.

[olivia]

She's a lot like Hillary: all aggression and little reason.

[izAriver]

"At this point, we're fighting for a principle that's important."

Doesn't matter what happens with the delegates. She's taking it to the convention no matter what. Everyone must remember. The enemy is the criminal organization already in the white house of which mcshame is but an extension. It must be voted out of power this election. We can't wait. This group will be responsible for future tragedy already destined by previous actions. We can't let them set us up for more suffering.

[lisakaz2]

Frankly, I'm thinking Clinton is part of the criminal WH operation since she seems so eager to help it continue.

[izAriver]

A corporate democrat is much more palatable to the ruling class. That's why Obama scares the hell out of them. He's not a corporate democrat or a repugnican.

[bygollymissmolly]

Right now the enemy I see is named Hillary Rove Clinton.

[Marcospinelli]

Then Clinton supporters had better stop the divisiveness, kiss Hillary goodbye, and join the Obama campaign now.

[olivia]

There is no solution to this mess that is fair to everyone. That's why some penalty is absolutely required. This must never be allowed to happen again. Ever.

[Freedomscap]

I don't care what it is, but one thing is for sure, everywhere the Clinton's go, there goes drama and baggage.

[kellygrrrl]

"So go The Clintons, so goes the Drama"

[BassMent]

You know what's weird? I have lots of family in MI. None of them gives a hoot about any of this. And none of their friends give a hoot about any of this. They are well pissed off at the party leaders in the state that put them in this mess, but they don't know anybody in the state who's actually talking about "disenfran­chisement" or "rioting" or any of this other nonsense. Most people accepted back when their leadership made the stupid decision to move the primary that the whole thing was invalid anyway.

I've read posts here from folks down in FL who say much the same thing about voters there.

I believe most if not all of this outrage and chest-beating is being manufactured by the Clinton supporters.

I am going back to my old theory (much pooh-poohed by the punditocracy) that HIllary knows she cannot be the nominee this year, but that she can screw up the party so badly that McCain will win... thinking, of course, that she'd be a shoe-in as the nominee in 2012.

But how wrong she will be. If she keeps this up and ruins this election for Dems, her political career will be over. I will personally commit to campaigning hard in any state for any opponent of hers for any office, and I know many others who will do the same.

[AdLib]

Hillary's presidential aspirations are over. Whether Obama wins or loses (he will win!), Hillary won't have a prayer at running in 2012, she has offended and repulsed over half of all Dems and if Obama was to lose, the majority would be calling for Hillary's head, not supporting her for another run.

[liseworks]

Can you please email this to Keith Olberman or Chris Matthews on MSNBC - or Haggerty on CNN ??
Please !!

[PAposter]

I agree with your assessment of the residents of these respective states. They are not complaining, and they never have, at least not about being treated unfair by the candidates. All this hoopla is Hillary's doing. That's why she's having protesters bussed into D.C., although her campaign is denying it.

With regard to her ruining this election for Dems and running again, she would be laughed off the podium at the first debate. She will never be President after this fiasco, and hopefully she will lose her Senate seat as well.

[kellygrrrl]

they should be pissed off at their state leaders.

I've been saying for weeks that the voters of FLA should be a whole lot more worried about cleaning up their State problems before they start playing in the Big Leagues.

between 2000 and 2008 I would hope the people in FLA are fed up and ready to clean house

[Liam]

In FL, if the voters are going to be mad at anyone, it shouldn't be Obama or the DNC, it should be the Republicans in charge who set the date.

Of course, they're Democratic counterparts by and large went along with it, but still, if this is going to have any effect on voting in FL at all, it ought to HELP the Dems, not hurt them.

Liam.

[bygollymissmolly]

I believe most if not all of this outrage and chest-beating is being manufactured by the Clinton supporters.
----------­----------­----
By Clinton supporters and trolls sent out by the RNC to pretend to be Clinton supporters. Just an extension of Operation Chaos.

[obamagal]

Yes, to both.

[obamajusrocks]

I vehemently protest in the strongest terms possible the very flagrant attempts by the Clinton campaign and its surrogates to "steal" the will of voters. If she wants to carry one her baseless and idotic argument that she is the best candidate to win the GE - then why is she behind Obama in BOTH the popular vote and delegate count?

The Michigan attempt to allocate all delegates for herself while disenfranchising all those people who VOTED AGAINST her just will not stand.

The DNC and the Super Delegates take heed. This shall and will not be allowed to happen in an age of transparency. People want change from this kind of back room politics!

[Marcospinelli]

All this is article is preparing people for is a kicking of the can further down the road. This is what all of the leaders and members of the Democratic Party have been good at, and the stage has been set to give everybody cover. It gives Debbie Dingell cover ("We worked really hard"), it gives the rules committee cover because everybody realizes that there's always somebody down the road who can change the decision. Until the convention.

Through Ferguson, Hillary Clinton is getting off a shot across the bow, that she is staying in the race, and it lays out how she's going to do it: Unless she gets the count she wants, Ferguson is telegraphing that Hillary will challenge the decision on grounds that "the RBC and DNC don't have the authority".

No matter what happens Saturday, Hillary Clinton is staying in the race. She will spend the summer trying to poach delegates, both pledged and super. That was the plan all along. It's just news to people now because the media has been letting the Clintons get away with weasel language that implied she was ending her campaign right after the last primary.

[obamagal]

SHE doesn't even have the authority to ask for ANY. They all signed the pledge, they all knew the rules. SHE broke them and is now crying foul 'cause she's losing.

Pathetic.

[bygollymissmolly]

This is the opinion of ONE person on the committee who just happens to be a Clinton supporter. I'm not going to get too excited about it. I'm sure that there are mature people on the committee who know how to play by the rules and will play fair.

[Liam]

Unfortunately, all she has to do is contest the decision and it goes to the other committee (the name of which I can't come up with right now) that meets in August.

Unless they give her EVERYTHING she wants, she's set it up so she's got "grounds" to protest, which keeps her alive, because Obama can't clinch the nomination on elected delegates alone, and Supers are not pledged even once they come out in support of one candidate, theoretically they're free to switch back and forth until the convention.

That's the problem, Hillary doesn't actually WANT to win this one. Not winning gives her the "moral high ground" (or so she'll claim) to protest and push onward. If she wins it all and then loses based on the supers, she'll probably still do it, but she'll have a harder time spinning it in a positive light.

Liam.