Clinton's Choice: Scorch The Earth Or Prepare To Fold

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First Posted: 05-30-08 07:01 PM   |   Updated: 06- 7-08 05:12 AM

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Hillary Clinton

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning.

Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse compromise and keep the dispute over the Florida and Michigan delegations alive all the way to the August convention.

The second choice would be to go for a partial victory that would grant some legitimacy to the Florida and Michigan primaries. That, in turn, would strengthen Hillary Clinton's claim that she has won the popular vote by adding the 1,185,359 votes that she won in Florida and Michigan to her total, and the 569,041 votes Barack Obama won in the two states to his total - with a net Clinton pickup of 616,318 votes.

The Obama forces face a similarly tough set of choices: whether to agree to a compromise tilted in Clinton's favor in order to resolve the issue and prevent a convention floor fight, or go to the mat in an attempt to gain as many possible delegates out of the deal as possible.

On the surface, the Clinton forces have a weak hand, their own representatives on the 30-member RBC split between the goal of winning the nomination and refusing to push the rules to the breaking point.

That does not, however, guarantee that Clinton will emerge the loser. Instead, the RBC session could well reach an impasse, with no majority emerging for any solution to the issues of seating the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations.

That outcome would have the potential benefit to Clinton of having an issue to raise at the Denver convention in August. If, as some Clinton backers continue to hope, a new controversy emerges to damage Obama's bid along the lines of Jeremiah Wright's videotaped sermons, having a procedural vote on hand can prove to be a vehicle to force more debate and to raise more doubts.

Today, less than 24 hours from the start of the RBC session, some Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee are publicly questioning whether they would support Clinton's demand for seating all the Florida and Michigan delegates with full voting rights.

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Donald Fowler, a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the South Carolina Democratic Party, said that in the case of the 210-member Florida delegation elected on January 29, "I'm going to have to think long and hard before I support the position that we won't settle for anything less than 100 percent. There are institutional concerns that have to be respected."

Instead, Fowler indicated he is inclined to back seating the Florida delegates with the proviso that they get only half a vote each. The case of Michigan, where Obama did not appear on the January 15 primary ballot, is a far more difficult state to find an acceptable solution for, Fowler noted.

Another key pro-Clinton member of the RBC, Elaine Kaymark, holds similar concerns to Fowler but, in a brief phone interview as her plane was about to take off from Boston to Washington, she would only say "I don't know yet," in response to questions about how she intends to vote.

The Democratic Party in 2007 voted to strip Michigan and Florida of all their convention delegates if they went ahead with plans to hold January primaries in violation of party rules prohibiting contests before February 5, with exceptions for Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada. Florida and Michigan went ahead anyway, and Clinton won the popular vote in both states.

Since then, everyone, including Clinton and Obama, have agreed that both populous and highly important battleground states should have some representation at the convention in order to prevent alienating voters in Michigan and Florida, potentially fatally damaging the chances of the Democratic nominee in November.

While the Clinton forces are divided, that does not mean that the Obama backers will emerge winners.

Obama's operatives have pointedly avoided explicit descriptions of their goals at the RBC session - "We're of course going to and have been working towards a fair and equitable resolution to the seating of the delegations," said spokesman Bill Burton.

In a conference call earlier this week, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said "we've been clear for some time now that we're open to some compromise that's fair," adding: "the attention of both the voters and the parties is quickly turning toward the general election so we're hoping that, you know, there can be some reasonable resolution on Saturday."

Other sources, however, say that the Obama campaign would accept the Florida half-vote solution, which would give Clinton a net gain of roughly 19 delegates -- no where near enough to catch up to Obama.

The more difficult issue for Obama and Clinton is the 156-member Michigan delegation. Since Obama did not appear on the ballot at all, there are no delegates pledged to him. Hillary won 55 percent, while "uncommitted" took 40 percent, and the rest went to minor candidates.

A number of Obama's supporters contend that at least 40 percent of the Michigan delegates should be assigned to him. The proposal they are actually preparing to press would be to declare the Michigan contest to be an unfair test, and seat all the delegates, splitting them right down the middle, 50-50, between Clinton and Obama.

In the case of Michigan, however, the Clinton forces appear to be unanimous in their view that she should get at least 55 percent of the state's delegate votes. They are, in addition, deeply skeptical of, if not explicitly opposed to, the assignment of any Michigan delegate votes to Obama.

Clinton supporters Harold Ickes, her chief delegate hunter, and Fowler - both masters of party rules - contend that delegates chosen by voters casting ballots for "uncommitted" cannot be assigned to a specific candidate by the Rules Committee.

They argue that to do so would be to impute an unknowable motivation on the part of the voter, a theoretically dangerous step for any political body to take.

"Giving us no delegates in Michigan," Plouffe countered, would not be "terribly reasonable."

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
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Hmmm...
No flag pin, but a Native American (so it seems) symbol?

What does that mean?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 05/31/2008

It means she's running as a Democrat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 05/31/2008
- LeBelAge I'm a Fan of LeBelAge 8 fans permalink

Wow a Muslim swipe, a Kennedy swipe and a flag pin wearing patriotic swipe all in a row.

5 bucks says the next swipe will be an accussation about communism or socialism.

Conservatives are so precious in their predictability. ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 05/31/2008

Chief Earth Goddess of Chappaqua.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 05/31/2008

lmao

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 05/31/2008

wow,
i should be bowing..kn­eeling..cu­rtsying...­?

What's the protocol?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 05/31/2008

I'm surprised she's not in full headdress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 05/31/2008
- SiberianRat I'm a Fan of SiberianRat 141 fans permalink
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Yeah, and speaking with a Lakota accent...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 05/31/2008

It means that the botox has started to eat her brain

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 05/31/2008
- DaOne I'm a Fan of DaOne 44 fans permalink
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Obama is taking on McCain on big issues dails and all we hear is Hillary screaming "Pick me!"

She's like the kid who nobody wants on their baseball team.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 05/31/2008
- sherbug I'm a Fan of sherbug 55 fans permalink

The whole country is being held hostage by Michigan and Florida. These two states, for whatever reason, violated the rules and they agreed in writing along with the presidential candidates that votes in Florida and Michigan would not count.

This is like agreeing to buy a house "as is" and then take the seller to court demanding repairs. Its insane. Granting these two states full delegates would only punish Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 05/31/2008
- Forsetti I'm a Fan of Forsetti 67 fans permalink
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MI and FL are not the problem-they broke the rules, they suffer the consequences. It is the Clintons who are trying to "speak for MI and FL" that is the real problem. Everyone needs to keep the focus on the real problem not the contrived ones made up by HRC and her surrogates. It is "everyone's vote should count", it is not the "poplular vote", it is not the media, it is not sexism, etc... It is Hillary and how she ran her campaign.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 05/31/2008
- pupbayer I'm a Fan of pupbayer 23 fans permalink

They could have just revoted but Obama stopped that. Votes may not matter to you but they matter to the people whose votes don't count. We cannot afford to disenfranchise all of those voters. When McCain wins, remember this. It won't be Clinton's fault, it will be the DNC's fault for handling this so badly from day one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

it would also punish those of us who cast one vote thinking it wouldn't be counted, but would've voted another way if we had known it would have even been an option four months later. there was not a hint, or even a whisper that this nonsense would be happening.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 05/31/2008

I'm in MI and I was punished because I didn't even have a candidate to vote for!

Who do I blame? The Michigan Democratic Party who wanted to be important and didn't care that they were messing up with the democratic process.

Hillary has taken this as her 'cause of the moment', but she couldn't be more disengenous if she tried. She doesn't care about the voters of Michigan. She cares to get the votes in MI that she received -- because she chose to put her name back on the ballot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 05/31/2008
- SiberianRat I'm a Fan of SiberianRat 141 fans permalink
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If the tables were turned and it was Obama trying to seat delegates, HC would be going apesh*t! She likens the whole thing to Zimbabwe, where people are killed for their vote--she's soooo insincere and insensitive I can hardly believe it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 05/31/2008
- tdh I'm a Fan of tdh 6 fans permalink
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Something about Hillary in this is so Naderesque.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 05/31/2008
- pupbayer I'm a Fan of pupbayer 23 fans permalink

And Obama is so Mondale-esque.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

thunderclapnewman - thank you for your calm rationale this morning. it is greatly appreciated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 05/31/2008

Has the Pastel Polyester Pantsuit Posse started rioting yet?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

you down with PPP?
hell no, not me.
you down with PPP?
hell no, not me.
you down with PPP?
hell no, not me.
screw the PPP
i'm down with de.moc.ra.cy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 05/31/2008

Doesn't polyester generate static electricity? They could become a source of renewable energy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 05/31/2008
- ultrabop I'm a Fan of ultrabop 15 fans permalink
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TROUBLE REPORTED AT A DINER IN WEST VIRGINA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 05/31/2008
- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 122 fans permalink
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The Rules and Bylaws Committee is getting ready to go at it.

I say the bogus votes should be ignored and only the delegates should be awarded.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 05/31/2008
- pupbayer I'm a Fan of pupbayer 23 fans permalink

Why should the voters be punished what did they do? Bar the party leaders, fine the state parties, but we have to count the votes. All these people did was vote and I always thought that is what we wanted them to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 05/31/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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"What would Democrats gain by taking this debate any further, especially when the party is now engaged in the kind of polarizing politics that we once denounced the GOP for using for partisan gain. What can be won by tainting the process, arguing the rules are now unfair, or worse, the Republican rule of winner-takes-all should have guided the Democrats as well? All this fuss is simply about saving face and waiting to see whether some awful thing tarnishes the presumptive nominee. It's shameful, short-sighted, mean-spirited and morally unacceptable. Now, I said it."

- Donna Brazille

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 05/31/2008

I am a big fan of Ms. Brazille's, she's not afraid to speak her mind and I truly believe that she started out like a lot of us as fans of Mrs. Rodham, but throughout her increasingly divisive campaign came to loathe her tactics. I could not have said it better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 05/31/2008
- ultrabop I'm a Fan of ultrabop 15 fans permalink
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Hillary is on something. Either booze or drugs. She is behaving like an addict. Her thinking is cloudy. She sees two feet in front of her face. She has no vision of the future. She has burned many bridges. Her face is lumpy, fleshy looking, all clarity is gone. The bones have disappeared.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 05/31/2008
- Flagal I'm a Fan of Flagal 7 fans permalink

I find it interesting that Hillary Clinton has so easily given away any appearance of integrity during this campaign yet wonders how she could lose.
For me the only explanation is that she has been blind to reality in her dogged pursuit of ultimate power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 05/31/2008
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Well, it WAS only an appearance of integrity.

No real integrity was ever in any danger, since Hillary has none.
She's proved it over and over since January.

Overweening ambition has been the downfall of many politicians.
Hillary---and Bill---are just the latest examples.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 05/31/2008

Yet she accuses another person for being out of touch. If she was in touch with the real world,then she would have known her faith long ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

I mentioned that in another thread. How can she remotely think at after causing all of this spectacle and duplicitousness, that she can win over enough voters to triumph in November.

The people who call for her to run as an independent just make me laugh. Even in blue states, Republicans get some 40% of the vote in almost all of them, and McCain may manage to do even a little better. So if McCain gets 40% of every state (or more in true red states), and Obama and Clinton were to split the other 60% in half, McCain could conceivably sweep the Electoral College 538-0.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 05/31/2008

Everyone is going nuts. What if this, what if that, suppose, suppose . Its over next week. Make no mistake about that. Clinton will not carry this over to the convention. Its all posturing and threats to imtimidate the DNC and the Super Delegates. The power resides with Pelosi and Reed. If they want to end it and they do it is over. They control most of the superdelegates who are members of Congress and they will never allow the party to be destroyed by the Clintons. Hillary will never again get any support to be able to run for office and will be a pariah in her own party and when she returns to Congress she will be shunned. The Clintons if nothing else are shrewed politicians and will throw in the towel next week when they don't get their way. Obama will not put her on the ticket because she personally with her intemperate remarks destroyed any possibilty of that happening. Lets get on to the main event and send McCain back to the Senate in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 249 fans permalink
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What confidence! Wish I had it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 05/31/2008

Bend over Obama - you're going to get royally screwd today. The Clinton "scorched Earth" is in full force and today you'll see just how coniving they really are.
VOTE Obama '08!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

umm, ew - kinda early here for that image in my head.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 05/31/2008
- ultrabop I'm a Fan of ultrabop 15 fans permalink
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She's scorching her own earth. I doubt if she can touch Obama at this point. He has momentum. Even the corporate media is lining up behind him now.

Of course bringing out another preacher who disses HillBilly(and uses the word "white") from the same(shock!) pulpit that the Rev. Wright once used, is supposed to send waves of revulsion throughout the remnants of the KKK, and the "white blue collar" of West Virginia that Hillary so boldly champions. The fact that the preacher is white must confuse them somewhat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 05/31/2008
- Paula1953 I'm a Fan of Paula1953 6 fans permalink
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Senator Clinton herself said these contests ‘didn’t count for anything.’ Have the people of these states forgotten that not so long ago Hillary had written them off? Why can't they see that she only wants them counted now for her own benefit?
I truly hope that the RBC keeps this in mind when they decide whether or not to let her have the popular votes in these states.
I swear, if they allow the Clinton's to bully them into doing something totally unfair to Obama I will be writing letters for a week to each and every one of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 05/31/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 48 fans permalink

I don't know if Hillary has made a conscious decision to go for broke on this one run for the presidency, knowing that she has so fouled her nest in the Party that it's her one and only chance so she's willing to go to scorched earth or whether she's so divorced from reality (or drinking too heavily in these last weeks and months) to be able to see what she has done and is doing to herself long term. It is clear that Hillary long ago lost the respect of the leadership of the Party. All she has left working for her is chaos and she and her supporters are demonstrating that in front of the DNC meeting this morning. She's making a total fool of herself, and it's impossible for a rational person to see what she hopes to gain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

so, she can't win the primaries without lying, cheating, stealing, and going into a massive amount of debt.....b­ut she can win the general election?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 05/31/2008
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Well she does have much more lying, cheating, and stealing within her. Oh I forgot the all to full reservoirs of delusion and entitlement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 05/31/2008
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downbytheocean

so America isn't a democracy when free speech isn't allowed..s­hame on you Huffington
Reply Favorite Flagged Posted 08:45 AM on 05/31/2008
==========­==========­===

Here's a newsflash for you, to read while you whine.

This blog isn't a democracy, and it isn't infringing on your right to free speech.

This is a privately owned website and as such the owners have the absolute right to allow or disallow any comment they choose.

You have no right to post comments here. Nor do I.

It's possible that if you weren't such a whining adolescent with a colossal chip on your shoulder that your comments would not be scrubbed.

Try posting on-topic and in a less confrontational manner, if you can stop grinding that very large ax for a while.

Or you could go to TaylorMarsh and join the rest of the ClintonCult and whine in unison.

It's your choice, isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 05/31/2008
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NO tell me there aren't rules that I can't simply state that I will not follow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 05/31/2008
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I try to be helpful---­occasional­ly. :-}

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 05/31/2008

i prefer to go where there is complete freedom of speech..li­ke the MSNBC message board...go ahead and drink the kool-aid..­.you deserve what you may get from Obamanation

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 05/31/2008
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