Clinton's Choice: Scorch The Earth Or Prepare To Fold

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First Posted: 05-30-08 07:01 PM   |   Updated: 06- 7-08 05:12 AM

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Hillary Clinton

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning.

Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse compromise and keep the dispute over the Florida and Michigan delegations alive all the way to the August convention.

The second choice would be to go for a partial victory that would grant some legitimacy to the Florida and Michigan primaries. That, in turn, would strengthen Hillary Clinton's claim that she has won the popular vote by adding the 1,185,359 votes that she won in Florida and Michigan to her total, and the 569,041 votes Barack Obama won in the two states to his total - with a net Clinton pickup of 616,318 votes.

The Obama forces face a similarly tough set of choices: whether to agree to a compromise tilted in Clinton's favor in order to resolve the issue and prevent a convention floor fight, or go to the mat in an attempt to gain as many possible delegates out of the deal as possible.

On the surface, the Clinton forces have a weak hand, their own representatives on the 30-member RBC split between the goal of winning the nomination and refusing to push the rules to the breaking point.

That does not, however, guarantee that Clinton will emerge the loser. Instead, the RBC session could well reach an impasse, with no majority emerging for any solution to the issues of seating the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations.

That outcome would have the potential benefit to Clinton of having an issue to raise at the Denver convention in August. If, as some Clinton backers continue to hope, a new controversy emerges to damage Obama's bid along the lines of Jeremiah Wright's videotaped sermons, having a procedural vote on hand can prove to be a vehicle to force more debate and to raise more doubts.

Today, less than 24 hours from the start of the RBC session, some Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee are publicly questioning whether they would support Clinton's demand for seating all the Florida and Michigan delegates with full voting rights.

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Donald Fowler, a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the South Carolina Democratic Party, said that in the case of the 210-member Florida delegation elected on January 29, "I'm going to have to think long and hard before I support the position that we won't settle for anything less than 100 percent. There are institutional concerns that have to be respected."

Instead, Fowler indicated he is inclined to back seating the Florida delegates with the proviso that they get only half a vote each. The case of Michigan, where Obama did not appear on the January 15 primary ballot, is a far more difficult state to find an acceptable solution for, Fowler noted.

Another key pro-Clinton member of the RBC, Elaine Kaymark, holds similar concerns to Fowler but, in a brief phone interview as her plane was about to take off from Boston to Washington, she would only say "I don't know yet," in response to questions about how she intends to vote.

The Democratic Party in 2007 voted to strip Michigan and Florida of all their convention delegates if they went ahead with plans to hold January primaries in violation of party rules prohibiting contests before February 5, with exceptions for Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada. Florida and Michigan went ahead anyway, and Clinton won the popular vote in both states.

Since then, everyone, including Clinton and Obama, have agreed that both populous and highly important battleground states should have some representation at the convention in order to prevent alienating voters in Michigan and Florida, potentially fatally damaging the chances of the Democratic nominee in November.

While the Clinton forces are divided, that does not mean that the Obama backers will emerge winners.

Obama's operatives have pointedly avoided explicit descriptions of their goals at the RBC session - "We're of course going to and have been working towards a fair and equitable resolution to the seating of the delegations," said spokesman Bill Burton.

In a conference call earlier this week, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said "we've been clear for some time now that we're open to some compromise that's fair," adding: "the attention of both the voters and the parties is quickly turning toward the general election so we're hoping that, you know, there can be some reasonable resolution on Saturday."

Other sources, however, say that the Obama campaign would accept the Florida half-vote solution, which would give Clinton a net gain of roughly 19 delegates -- no where near enough to catch up to Obama.

The more difficult issue for Obama and Clinton is the 156-member Michigan delegation. Since Obama did not appear on the ballot at all, there are no delegates pledged to him. Hillary won 55 percent, while "uncommitted" took 40 percent, and the rest went to minor candidates.

A number of Obama's supporters contend that at least 40 percent of the Michigan delegates should be assigned to him. The proposal they are actually preparing to press would be to declare the Michigan contest to be an unfair test, and seat all the delegates, splitting them right down the middle, 50-50, between Clinton and Obama.

In the case of Michigan, however, the Clinton forces appear to be unanimous in their view that she should get at least 55 percent of the state's delegate votes. They are, in addition, deeply skeptical of, if not explicitly opposed to, the assignment of any Michigan delegate votes to Obama.

Clinton supporters Harold Ickes, her chief delegate hunter, and Fowler - both masters of party rules - contend that delegates chosen by voters casting ballots for "uncommitted" cannot be assigned to a specific candidate by the Rules Committee.

They argue that to do so would be to impute an unknowable motivation on the part of the voter, a theoretically dangerous step for any political body to take.

"Giving us no delegates in Michigan," Plouffe countered, would not be "terribly reasonable."

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
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- neem I'm a Fan of neem 4 fans permalink

This will be interesting. The Rules Committee must know that if Hillary Clinton muscles her way onto Obama's ticket as his VP running mate, the Republicans will be electrified and galvanized and McCain might actually win. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton will not stop voluntarily: there is nothing else in her life. So the Rules Committee will be in an interesting position today: if they don't stop Hillary real soon, McCain has a chance! The Rules people will be nervous, of course; but some of them might actually want to win in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 AM on 05/31/2008

Listen,We have to give the Rules Committee some credit. Those guys are also Politicians like Bill and Hillary. In other words they are SPINELESS. They are not worried about Hillary or Bill,they will do what ensures the will win their next local elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 AM on 05/31/2008

Is there a middle ground between scorched earth and quitting? Seems to me she could go to the convention without having to be in attack mode for the next 3 months.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 AM on 05/31/2008
- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 121 fans permalink
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Would she campaign against McCain or keep trying to undermine her Party's nominee? Superdelegates will put Obama just below the magic number by Monday night.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 AM on 05/31/2008

My proposal is that she would campaign against McCain. Short of that she could be silent and she could discipline her surrogates to be silent.
My concern about all delegates is that she'll twist arms bet. Tue and the convention. Call in "debts," etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Why does the media lie and say that Obama's policies are the same as HRC....
She is the DLC candidate.­...they lie to get in office and then implement corporate policies..­.

She is pro NAFTA....a­re we democrats or republican­s..

Lets get our party back from the DLC.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 05/31/2008
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I agree. But why does the MSM lie? I think it is a combination of trying to extend the Dem "race" as well as pushing their corporate agendas. It is hard to remember back to the time when good journalism was the desired goal.

I myself am ready for some sort of ad free, subscription TV news.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 AM on 05/31/2008
- ByersL I'm a Fan of ByersL 40 fans permalink

Watch PBS and listen to NPR. They will calm you down!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Can someone please tell me how George Bush's policies are any different than Bill Clinton's.­...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

The DLC is Republican Lite.....I want my party back from the right wing corporatist

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 240 fans permalink
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Everyone on this thread who is celebrating the fact that most of Europe seems to be going for Obama, a word of caution. It is great news, but if anyone in any country in Europe---the UK too---tries what some in the UK tried in the 2004 election, it will backfire: they wrote letters to voters back east in the Staters, telling them how to vote (not Bush), and the voters back east didn't like it.
Big time.
Europe---and the UK---need to chill out just a wee bit, if they really want Obama. By 'chill oui' I mean put down the megaphone about all this, just let it runs its course.

Note: unlike mainland Europe, the UK media, for about a year and up until about March, was behind Hillary---then they turned on her. Right about the time they figured out she was a poor loser, a rule-changer, and just as polarizing as many have said she is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 AM on 05/31/2008
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The advice is appreciated. Your reference to letters written to this side of the pond, was it to individual voters or newspapers or something else.

If there are people who would change their vote from Obama based on the opinion of many in the UK, I think they would be ignoring their original reasons for supporting him. As to others that are on the fence for their vote, no telling at this point would be the deciding factor.

Although we were once under GB's rule, I think there are several attitudes of DB that many Americans would be better for learning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 AM on 05/31/2008
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Oops. meant to type "...attitu­des of GB..."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 240 fans permalink
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I did a reply to you above.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 AM on 05/31/2008
- likeicare I'm a Fan of likeicare 8 fans permalink

I pick, Scorched Earth -- it's more dramatic. And the Clintons LOVE drama!

Besides, they have no future in the Democratic Party anymore -- not after their childish display of temper tantrums, threats, and taunts over the last several months -- who wants to put up with more of their silly antics?

Bill and Hillary need to form their own party, where they can make and break all the rules they want. Hillary could run on a ticket with wacky Geraldine Ferraro. That should be a hoot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 AM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Has the democratic party been hyjacked by republicans for the past 20 years.....­yes.

Please read.
http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:18 AM on 05/31/2008

this "playing by the rules" thing seems to be a pattern she has developedeven as a youth.....­.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kpDl_Adwuzw

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 AM on 05/31/2008
- Voltage I'm a Fan of Voltage 9 fans permalink
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Hilarious! And apt. Thanks for sharing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 AM on 05/31/2008
- VivaZapata I'm a Fan of VivaZapata 63 fans permalink
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it's embarrassing to watch her disconnect from reality, but how bad is this going to get? are they are going to have to drag her out of the Denver in a straightjacket while she laughs hysterically, points purposefully but without any real target at inanimate objects in the room and intermittently seal claps while shouting, "I've got white people on my side, who are not assassins but who knows what can happen in an election year where only John McCain and I know how to 'obliterate' and 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!'"????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 AM on 05/31/2008
- JohnKemp I'm a Fan of JohnKemp 26 fans permalink

Damn, Obama's followers starting to sweat a little bit.

Just wait, it's going to get much worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 AM on 05/31/2008

Ready on Day One - to get sloppy drunk!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23488377-details/One+for+the+end+of+the+road+Merry+Clinton+knocks+back+whisky+on+campaign+plane/article.do

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:06 AM on 05/31/2008
- Gina322 I'm a Fan of Gina322 6 fans permalink

OH NO!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 AM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Please read if you are a Clinton supporter.­...think you will understand why she doesn't apoliguze for her Iraq war vote and why she will obliterate Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 AM on 05/31/2008

I think she has already chosen to go scorched earth. Her goal is the presidential nomination, there is nothing to compromise there. If she wanted vice president she probably could have had that already by asking. Obama's and Clinton's stated policy positions are virtually the same so it is not like there is some huge issue that she wants to make sure is on the party platform. So really she is fighting for her ambition not some greater cause. Where could there be compromise?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 AM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

She is trying to maintain DLC power in the party. The DLC is the Right wing part of the party and no better than the NeoCon's.

Lets make the party progressive and not Republican Lite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 240 fans permalink
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When will we know about the results of the meeting today---assuming there are any results?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 AM on 05/31/2008
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All I can find is that it will begin at 9:30a.m. EDT. I doubt if there is a scheduled end time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 240 fans permalink
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Thanks---again.
If Hillary has anything to say about it, the end time will be the last day of the convention---and even beyond that if she can swing it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:18 AM on 05/31/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 218 fans permalink
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The proceedings will be televised, at least on MSNBC...at least that is what they promised last night. I believe they start at 9:30 am.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 AM on 05/31/2008

I've spent my entire adult life campaigning for women's causes. As a single white male, I have worked for equality between the sexes, confident that the best man for the job is often a woman.

Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferrarro, Nancy Pellozi and Codi Rice seem to be all that the women's movement, at long last, after all this want to ram down our throats. And now women who I have known and respected are furious with me because I can't get behind a serial liar, a serial racist, a serial incompetent and a whackjob.

Wait a go, women, you've turned me into a misogynist in less that three months. I almost hope McCain DOES get in, so you lose title nine, you pay stays low, the glass ceiling gets lowered, you lose the right to choice and end up back in the kitchen, where you can think long and about how you hard bypassed every competent woman in America for these four harridans.

Next time, you're on your own.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 AM on 05/31/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 240 fans permalink
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Hey, isn't this a bit of an overreaction? I understand what you are saying and of course Hillary and company hacve set women's rights back teo or three decades, but couldn't you stay and fight for those women who have NOT trashed all this?
Think about it---don't abandon us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 AM on 05/31/2008

Leave Nancy out of this. She isn't the greatest, but I would never put her in the company of the other 3.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 AM on 05/31/2008

you are no misogynist when you can still recognize the lack of fairness when competent woman are being bypassed for the mediocre, mendastic MRS Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 AM on 05/31/2008
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