Clinton Tag Teams With Obama At Israel Conference

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First Posted: 06- 4-08 11:41 AM   |   Updated: 06-12-08 05:12 AM

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Obama At Aipac

According to some observers, Sen. Barack Obama faced the prospect of a cool reception during his speech Tuesday morning at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's annual policy conference. After receiving a massive ovation upon entering the crowd's view at the Washington Convention Center, however, the newly crowned presumptive Democratic nominee for president apparently felt comfortable enough to meet any residual doubts about his record on Israel's security with a touch of humor and a boatload of specifics.

Referencing chain emails filled with what Obama described as "tall tales" regarding his positions on Israel, the Illinois Senator asked AIPAC delegates to let him know "if you see this guy named Barack Obama, because he sounds pretty frightening." He proceeded to tell the audience that he would speaking from his heart, and then hit a series of specific pro-Israel positions that brought the crowd to its feet several times.

And then he got a hand from the next speaker: Sen. Hillary Clinton. "Let me be clear, I know that Senator Obama will be a good friend to Israel," she said. "I know Sen. Obama shares my view that the next president must be ready to say to the world. Our position is unchanging, our resolve unyielding, our stance non-negotiable. The United States stands with Israel, now and forever."

While Clinton studiously avoided referencing Obama's surge past the magic number of delegates needed to cinch the Democratic nomination, she took up the cause of defending him against criticisms Sen. John McCain made during his speech to AIPAC on Monday. Her response to McCain was explicit in a way Obama's was not, perhaps due to his attempt to respect the gathering's non-partisan spirit.

Clinton, however, had less to worry about in terms of alienating a group that was much more familiar and comfortable with her brand. Clinton told those in attendance: "Let me underscore that I believe we need a Democrat in the White House next January. ... President Bush has moved us in wrong direction." Referencing McCain's "strong rhetoric" from his speech to the conference on Monday, Clinton told AIPAC that the Arizona Republican's policies would weaken America and Israel's security, "making the Middle East a more dangerous place."

Chief among his own pledges, Obama said he would "never take military action off the table" in defending America's interests or those of Israel. "Do not be confused," he instructed the crowd. He also called on Egypt to cut off the smuggling of weapons into Hamas-controlled Gaza, described the return of Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah as a priority of U.S. policy, and said he would never "compromise when it comes to Israel's security." He also identified Jerusalem as Israel's capital at the end of any two-state solution.

Still, Obama sought to draw contrasts with the Bush administration, and by extension John McCain. The presumptive Democratic nominee noted that he had opposed holding elections in the Palestinian territories in 2006 with Hamas on the ballot -- a stance that drew cheers. Obama also said he would not wait until the "waning days" of his presidency to press for Israeli-Palestinian peace, an implicit rebuke to President Bush, who is seen as having contributed too little too late to that negotiation track.

When Obama invoked the Hebrew phrase "tikkun olam," regarding the need to "repair this world," a large whoop of cheers went up from young AIPAC staffers who had been herded around the press area -- perhaps to make certain the media heard loud praise for Obama. If their placement and volume was calculated, it turns out AIPAC need not have been so concerned.

A sustained round of enthusiastic applause from the entire conference followed Obama as he left the stage and shook hands with more than three dozen AIPAC board members that were seated behind him -- an elaborate process that was projected onto the hall's eight jumbo monitors. Each previous speaker at the conference, by contrast, only air-kissed and shook hands with those board members conveniently seated on the aisles behind the podium. But for Obama, the individual attention was perhaps a necessary and appreciated touch.

According to some observers, Sen. Barack Obama faced the prospect of a cool reception during his speech Tuesday morning at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's annual policy conference. Afte...
According to some observers, Sen. Barack Obama faced the prospect of a cool reception during his speech Tuesday morning at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's annual policy conference. Afte...
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Yes, Israel should protect themselves, they have nuclear weapons which we helped them procure, they have huge amounts of aid that we provide.

Everyone here should google Jonathan Pollard, and see what you get.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 06/04/2008
- cathleen I'm a Fan of cathleen 8 fans permalink

Everyone here should google U.S. vs Rosen and read that indictment and wonder why all of our Presidential candidates are kissing the ass of an organization like Aipac that has undermined U.S. National Security. Why is it that the MSM is not touching the investigation into Aipac and the Rosen Weissman trial delays?

Why is that? If two lobbyist who were representing Ireland had been caught passing classified intelligence to Irish officials and that intelligence passing undermined U.S. National Security. do you think all of our Presidential candidates would be pledging allegiance to Ireland after Ireland had participate in underminig U.S. national Security?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:49 PM on 06/04/2008
- Bagger I'm a Fan of Bagger 17 fans permalink
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Pro-Israel will always be American foreign policy. If it weren't for the U.S. Israel would have ceased to exist along time ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 06/04/2008
- tyruler I'm a Fan of tyruler 10 fans permalink

And Palestine as a nation has ceased to exist precisely because of Israel.

When will Israelis realize that the injustices of the Holocaust wasn't perpetrated by Arabs or Muslims. So why must they pay the price of collective punishment, inhumanity, and Israeli apartheid for crimes they had nothing to do with?

Its time we liberals and progressives because anti-AIPAC activists to prevent another invasion of an Islamic country at the behest of securing Israeli interests. They have 250 nuclear weapons and the world's most sophisticated military technology. They don't need more American taxpayers aid to kill more human right activists like Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndal.

President Carter is right. Give the Middle East peace from Israel and US interventionism, not apartheid. The sooner Mr. Obama listens the sooner the world, esp. Muslim world, will take him seriously about peace.

Wasn't Obama against interest and lobby groups? Did this straight talk also derail?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 06/04/2008
- blueshield I'm a Fan of blueshield 87 fans permalink

In April, Hussein Ibish, senior fellow for the American Task Force on Palestine, said "I am confident that Barack Obama is more sympathetic to the position of ending the occupation than either of the other candidates."

Clearly there must be a resolution to the plight of Palestinians, and Obama reflects this objective in his policies. But until Middle East leaders, and the Palestinians themselves, rally behind Abbas and create the basis and consensus for a true political solution, there will only be bitterness and bloodshed. Carter keeps the door open. No one walks through. Obama is another chance - don't waste it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 06/04/2008
- oncethere I'm a Fan of oncethere 20 fans permalink

Yeah, right, what the world needs now more than anything else is another Arab country either run by thugs or rent apart by permanent civil war between this sect and that sect..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 06/04/2008
- RedDogBear I'm a Fan of RedDogBear 77 fans permalink
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If it weren't for the US Israel wouldn't be ruled by rabid war mongers (who are fine putting the average Israeli citizen's life on the line for the sake of war profits) and would have reached a just peace with the Palestinians a long time ago. If you think about it the Palestinians have virtually zero true international support. Of course all the arab countries pay them lip service but none of them actually does anything of consequence to support them. If Israel were to offer them a viable and just 2 state solution they would jump for it. Instead Israel offers a set of mini-states that are divided by armed walls and settlements and is essentially more a huge refugee camp than a viable state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 06/04/2008
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Israel has a right to exist but they really need to give up the land they seized illegally.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 06/04/2008
- cathleen I'm a Fan of cathleen 8 fans permalink

The Palestinians, Egypt, Syria et have all recognized Israel based on the 67 border. It's just that Israel wants to keep expanding. The Israeli government does not want peace..they want more territory

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 06/04/2008

If Obama picks Hillary as his VP, then he will lose my respect. I am a registered Independent, well unaffiliated as we call it here in North Carolina, and I voted for him in the NC Dem primary. If he however picks Hillary as his VP, then he won't get my vote this fall. Surely he is not really considering her.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 06/04/2008

The Obama cult just cant stop bashing Clinton....so sad.

You do realize that YOU are the reasone WE will never back Obama, right? You. YOu guys. right here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 06/04/2008
- jmwtex I'm a Fan of jmwtex 3 fans permalink

I do not think there will be unity in the party, at least from personal experience. Just as the Republicans have defined themselves as true American and partriots, the Obama people have defined themselves as true Democrats while Clinton supportes are just uneducated, racist, hateful people would should have never been so negative as to question Mr. Obama's ability to be president. I have actaully had Obama supporters read my mind and my soul and told me that I questioned his ability because I am a racist.

Unity is going to be tough with supporters like that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 06/04/2008
- macbabe I'm a Fan of macbabe 107 fans permalink
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This Mornings New Campaign Slogan:
"Leave the Clintons Behind"
We owe you NOTHING!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 06/04/2008

AIPAC supports the oppression of Palestinians in a situation that closely parallels Apartied. There will be no peace until these people's rights are recognized.Isreal must learn a basic life lesson,namely you have to give respect to get respect. If Obama really stands for change he needs to set these racists straight - but he won't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 06/04/2008

Its seems that all of you Obama fans fully support him except for everthing he does and says. Good choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 06/04/2008
- cluesearch I'm a Fan of cluesearch 14 fans permalink
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I'm sorry did you fall and bump your head? What's not to love about Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 06/04/2008
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Obama is perfect. I have been following him since 2004 and read all of his books. I haven't found a flaw yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 06/04/2008
- cathleen I'm a Fan of cathleen 8 fans permalink

He just happened to be out of town the day he could have stood up to the right wing warmongers on the Kyl Lieberman amendment. Obama had an opportunity to make a stand but he did not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 06/04/2008
- sanywhere I'm a Fan of sanywhere 2 fans permalink
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no, we actually did our homework and found that candidate that speaks for our convictions. it was a good choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 06/04/2008
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There are some policies where I don't agree with him. That is to be expected. Any rational adult decides who they support based on the candidate that **most represents** their point of view. It will never be 100%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 06/04/2008
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No. Most Obama supporters agree with most of his policies, but not all. It would be almost impossible to agree with all the policies of a candidate. Any thinking adult with the right to vote will pick the candidate who most meets their needs as a voter.

Your post makes no sense, but that's not surprising.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 06/04/2008

It is disheartening that Barack has to pander to this most powerful lobbying organization. Not what I consider breaking with the power brokers in Washington or business as usual. On the other hand I believe he is our greatest hope at some real progress in the middle east and for the Palestinian people and their situation as well as the Israeli people. And I fully realize he can't do anything if John McCain is elected president. This posturing to AIPAC is rather a necessary evil to the end of getting elected. Then Barack can institute his policies as opposed to the neo-con policies of Bush-McCain!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 06/04/2008
- QueenTiye I'm a Fan of QueenTiye 13 fans permalink
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I read the AIPAC speech and thought it was fantastic. Policy rich, answering critics, and in no way ceding support for Palestine, but yet, pledging unwavering support for Israel.

I don't get why people are upset, but I was pretty happy with it.

QT

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 06/04/2008
- nukemind I'm a Fan of nukemind 23 fans permalink

Because the Palestinians are the victims, not the Israelis who have nukes and the region's most powerful military. This policy makes peace IMPOSSIBLE now if Obama sticks to giving Israel recognition over their military occupation of Arab East Jerusalem. It's against int'l law. Of course, I'm still hoping this is just political rhetoric, cause if he goes there and tries to broker peace with that precondition, forget it. No peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 06/04/2008

I don' t know...some items, like proclaiming Jerusalem capital of Israel, or stating that it will always have a Jewish identity, is really something for the Israelis and Palestinians to work out amongst themselves. It's not our business, and identifies us as having picked a side in the whole sordid affair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 06/04/2008

After listening to HRC's speech following Obama this morning, one MUST ask how many opposing nonconciliatory speeches must Hillary give before the Obama Camp realizes she is not, and cannot be, a partner in governing the country?

There is NO WAY Obama can govern with her as the VP giving opposing remarks. And if we're going to put her on the ticket just to win the presidency, I say we're compromising principle for short-term gain which will result in a failed marriage made in hell.

Yes, we MUST have a woman in the VP spot. If you don't think so, you're fooling yourself. The race will be easier without a large percentage of women believing she was robbed of the nomination for being a woman.

There are plenty of qualified women that would work well in the VP spot. And as Obama has repeatedly cited the urgency of now. Now is time. Now is the opportunity to not only make history but change. Now is the time, when decades ago the African-American Civil Rights Movement and Women Suffrage Movement took different courses, to bring the groups at the core of these movements together on the same stage AND make history & change together.

Yes Honorable Senator Obama, Presumptive Democratic Nominee for the President of the United State of American, now is the time to select a woman as your partner in that VP spot. Just as long as it is NOT Hillary!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 06/04/2008
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Yes, we MUST have a woman in the VP spot. If you don't think so, you're fooling yourself. The race will be easier without a large percentage of women believing she was robbed of the nomination for being a woman.
------------------
First of all, I don't agree that we "must" have a woman in the VP slot. Second, if Obama chooses a woman and it isn't Hillary, her supporters will go ballistic. It will have the opposite effect than you want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 06/04/2008
- DinSea I'm a Fan of DinSea 28 fans permalink

Where have you been? In the bunker sequestered with HRC? This is precisely why HRC will not be on the ticket. You've missed the vision!

Obama sees beyond race & gender. In his wonderful victory speech he could have grandstanded about how this is a great moment in Black history - but he didn't. His vision is much larger than that. He does not go with the "microtrends" of Mark Penn, which slice & dice the people of this country into cubicles.

Obama appeals to the fact that we are AMERICANS first ... beyond anything that could divide us. That is why he will not make decisions - he will not appoint (or 'invite') people based on any cubicle ... he will do it on what is best for all the people.

He will choose a PERSON ... not a woman, not a man, not a Black, not a Hispanic ... but an AMERICAN When will we be able to catch up to him? Obama is always a step ahead - that's why he is the leader we need. He is a person we can emulate and aspire to be like.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 06/04/2008
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Gender before competence is like party before country.

Bill Richardson is the right choice, for the right reasons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 06/04/2008
- RedDogBear I'm a Fan of RedDogBear 77 fans permalink
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Yes, I think its amazing that Senator Clinton says one nice thing about Obama and thats treated as a major event. It might be hard to remember back to before the Clinton campaign but Democrats are SUPPOSED to support each other and attack Republicans. Thats sort of standard procedure for non-Clinton dems. I don't see how Obama could select Senator Clinton. Who knows what she might say or do next and what bomb shells are waiting in things like the Vanity Fair article.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 06/04/2008
- cadbury I'm a Fan of cadbury 4 fans permalink

What opposing remarks, leons? The idea that they tag-teamed means they were totally in sync. I think she really went out of her way to say Obama was a friend of Israel. (BTW hopefully not an uncritical friend.) Am I missing something?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 06/04/2008

I agree wit you, QueenTiye. I was happy with both Obama's and Hillary's speeches. I admire both Hillary and Obama. They are both good for this country. And they are both needed. Hillary is detail oriented, factual. Obama is inspiring with a different approach.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 06/04/2008

I hope you'll be happy with losing your hosue and job when another Israel war further harms the economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 06/04/2008

Hillary is so detailed oriented that she on 3 occassions told a DETAILED ACCOUNT of how she ran from sniper fire in Bosnia!! HER WORDS LIED 3 TIMES!

QUESTION HILLARY'S involvement and Hillary's detailed account on....
Whitewater
Travelgate
Filegate
The Rose Law Firm scandal
Bosina Sniper Fire
Maybe it was Hillary's suggestion that Bill lie about the Monica Lwensky problem....Hillary KNEW about Bill's infidelities for Years and Years...maybe Hillary caused Bill to lie about Monica.....no one knows what went on "Behind Closed Doors"
Hillary REALLY SHOWED the American Public how WELL SHE CAN LIE when she spoke in DETAIL about running from Sniper Fire....AND HOW WELL she made EXCUSES for her sniper fire lie...
Now, Will SHE DO AS SHE SAID SHE WOULD DO Hillary's Words. ..DISCLOSE her 07 Tax Returns NOW
She extended 07 Returns until after the nomination
She said she would do that after the nomination

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 06/04/2008
- Manchurian I'm a Fan of Manchurian 6 fans permalink

You don't know why people are upset? Obama's comments were completely one-sided and disregarded the plight and the rights of the Palestinian people. Just because he was addressing a pro-Israel lobbying group does not mean he should compromise his commitment to freedom, justice and equality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 06/04/2008
- go4thegold I'm a Fan of go4thegold 4 fans permalink

We can't really start the unifying until Ms Clinton comes to the realization that she has lost and Obama has won... Then, with her careful, guiding hand, most of her backers will join the effort to stop a greater evil -- John McCain. D.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 06/04/2008
- Yohomegirl I'm a Fan of Yohomegirl 16 fans permalink
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I, for one, ain't gonna hold my breath. If they join us fine and WELCOME, but we have a battle either way. If we all act, strong, relentless, raising funds, Every Dollar, Every Hour, that is possible then Yes We Can. We've gotten this far. Let's keep up the good work. Most will come our way, some won't but we shall overcome this day!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 06/04/2008
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If you are outraged by her behavior, tell her what you think. She said in her victory speech last night that she wanted to hear from people about what the next move should be. Tell her:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/help/contact/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 06/04/2008

First, this was not a "pro-Israel" crowd--it was a pro-Likkud rightwing crowd, and until Americans know the difference, we will continue our disastrous policy of condoning Israeli war crimes. That Obama felt he had to stoop to their level and make the usual objections to Hamas' democratic election is not a good sign. Israel has been weaseling out of every so-called peace agreement since 1947, and if Obama thinks he can get the Israeli government to give up their illegal settlements, stop stealing Palestinian land, stop murdering Palestinian children, and stop invading their Lebanese neighbors, he's mistaken. He certainly won't accomplish anything if he continues to kiss AIPAC's butt!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 06/04/2008
- macbabe I'm a Fan of macbabe 107 fans permalink
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Obama blog website is asking us NOT to feed this site.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 06/04/2008

Oh I did. I told her exactly what I thought of her!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 06/04/2008
- longcrl I'm a Fan of longcrl 3 fans permalink

Yes!

Let's ALL go over there and tell her what we think. Right now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 06/04/2008
- eej I'm a Fan of eej 8 fans permalink

I'm sure she only reads the notes accompanied with a donation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 06/04/2008

I told her to stay in, just to piss off the Obama cultists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 06/04/2008
- munkii I'm a Fan of munkii 2 fans permalink

ARGH! at least he's committed to a two-states solution, better than being a complete fuckwit when it comes to Israel, like the neo-cons (rapture) and the Clintons (whatever works for us today), BRING PEACE TO THE MIDDLE EAST NOW! (also: deport Lieberman)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 06/04/2008
- bronceye I'm a Fan of bronceye 32 fans permalink

I'm totally appalled that on the night and the day after Obama secured the nomination, Hillary and mccane each were given two free campaign speeches. What's up with that? As for Hillary not conceding, she is still taking money in, you know. She is at least $11M in the hole, you remember? Barack is far from my favorite candidate but he is the best of what was left and he is the ONLY one close to being anti war. Bush's drunken adventure needs to end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 06/04/2008
- Mekarri I'm a Fan of Mekarri 36 fans permalink
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I don't really understand this thing with Israel. Could someone explain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 06/04/2008
- aaronr2000 I'm a Fan of aaronr2000 16 fans permalink
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What specifically? The history of the Middle East conflict, why Israel has absolutely no other friends in the world, or why anyone with a brain worth his weight in salt who follows American politics and world affairs HATES AIPAC?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 PM on 06/04/2008
- aaronr2000 I'm a Fan of aaronr2000 16 fans permalink
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Here's the overly simplified, reader's digest version:

After WW2 three issues resulted in one solution.

1) Europe - How can a war ravaged Europe, ground zero for the systemic attempt to annihilate the Jews, make amends to while distancing itself from the Jewish victims of the holocaust
2) US - How should the world position itself against a rising Russian threat, which would eventually become the cold war
3) Zionists - Where should we establish a Jewish state

Although the idea to move the European Jews to South America was considered, the answer to all three questions was to establish a "Jewish" State of Israel for the Zionists, an ally in the heart of the Palestinian land, the oil capital of the world in order to counter Russia's influence in the region for US strategic advantage, and not in Europe for the Europeans.

Apparently the Palestinians didn't take too kindly to being ousted with fatal impunity.

As for AIPAC, most informed Americans hate them because they use their poltical influence in this country to force our politicians to support Israel's unfair land and power grab on the dime of the American tax payers. Politicians who give anything but absolute support to Israel are toast, in part due to the voting block of Pastor John Hagee and his Christians United for Israel organization.

The most worth while video to watch on this can be seen at http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=173

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 PM on 06/04/2008

It is on Hillary's best interest to initiate the Unity task , vigorously and unconditionally, sooner than later. Well, there may be a lot of people who still like Hillary, but their likeness was based primarily on the myth of her much hyped inevitability to the nomination, which she marketed very well by using the gender card. That was ok. But that is past now. As the time passes, most of the power (loving) groups of female around the country, and particularly those who circle around Washington, will distance from her as they will see her being alienated by the party and media. And this is already beginning to happen right now. You can take the case of Hilary Rosen or Maxine Waters.
Next, she will be held solely responsible, rightly or wrongly, if Obama loses, for whatever reasons. The consequence would be such devastating that she will never be able rise in politics again. The real end of the Clinton dynasty will be complete when that happens. So for her to remain relevant in politics, the burden is on her to help Obama win the presidency and take full credit for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 06/04/2008
- msmaggie I'm a Fan of msmaggie 10 fans permalink

I agree it is incumbent upon Hillary to vigorously support Obama. And I believe she will. However, if he loses, the loss is his. Just as if he wins, the victory is his. Can't have it both ways.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 06/04/2008
- Yohomegirl I'm a Fan of Yohomegirl 16 fans permalink
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I don't agree. I think she can help or hurt. That makes my resolve to donate Every Dollar, Every Hour to getting him in, with or without her support. I know what I can and cannot do, and none of what I can and cannot do will have any effect on what Hillary does or does not do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 06/04/2008
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