Republicans Block Extra Taxes On Oil Companies

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H. JOSEF HEBERT | June 10, 2008 09:19 PM EST | AP

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Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., center, flanked by Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., left, and Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., right, gestures during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, June 10, 2008, on the failed Senate vote on a windfall tax for oil companies. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

WASHINGTON — Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the record gasoline prices that have the nation fuming.

GOP senators shoved aside the Democratic proposal, arguing that punishing Big Oil won't do a thing to lower the $4-a-gallon-price of gasoline that is sending economic waves across the country. High prices at the pump are threatening everything from summer vacations to Meals on Wheels deliveries to the elderly.

The Democratic energy package would have imposed a 25 percent tax on any "unreasonable" profits of the five largest U.S. oil companies, which together made $36 billion during the first three months of the year. It also would have given the government more power to address oil market speculation, opened the way for antitrust actions against countries belonging to the OPEC oil cartel, and made energy price gouging a federal crime.

"Americans are furious about what's going on," declared Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D. He said they want Congress to do something about oil company profits and the "orgy of speculation" on oil markets.

But Republican leaders said the Democrats' plan would do harm rather than good _ and they kept the legislation from being brought up for debate and amendments.

On world markets, oil prices retreated a bit Tuesday but remained above $131 a barrel. Gasoline prices edged even higher to a nationwide record average of $4.04 a gallon.

At the Capitol, Democratic leaders needed 60 votes and they got only 51 senators' support, including seven Republicans who bucked their party leaders. Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, a state tied closely to the oil industry, was the only Democrat opposing the bill. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid voted in favor of the measure, but for procedural reasons changed his vote to "no" so that he could bring it up again.

"We are hurting as a country. We're hurting individually as Americans ... and the other side says, `Do nothing. Don't even debate the issue,'" complained Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y.

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"Average citizens are scratching their heads and saying, what's wrong with Washington," said Schumer.

GOP opponents argued that little was to be gained by imposing new taxes on the five U.S. oil giants: Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., Shell Oil Co., BP America Inc. and ConocoPhillips Co.

While these companies may be huge, they don't set world oil prices and raising their taxes would discourage domestic oil production, the Republicans said of the Democrats' plan.

"In the middle of what some are calling the biggest energy shock in a generation ... they proposed as a solution, of all things, a windfall profits tax," Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky chided the Democrats. He called their proposal "a gimmick" that would not lower gasoline prices and only hold back domestic oil production.

"The American people are clamoring for relief at the pump," agreed Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., but "they will get exactly what they don't want" under the Democrats' plan _ higher prices and an increase in oil imports.

The bill's supporters argued that their proposal was different from the windfall profits taxes of the early 1980s that thwarted domestic production and led to a rise in imports. The oil companies could avoid the tax by using their "windfall" to push alternative energy programs or refinery expansions, they said.

Shortly after the oil tax vote, Republicans blocked a second proposal that would extend tax breaks that have either expired or are scheduled to end this year for wind, solar and other alternative energy development, and for the promotion of energy efficiency and conservation. Again Democrats couldn't get the 60 votes to overcome a GOP filibuster.

Neither Republican presidential candidate John McCain nor his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, were in Washington to cast votes on the energy issue on Tuesday.

Obama, in a statement, said Republicans had "turned a blind eye to the plight of America's working families" by refusing to take up the energy legislation. Obama has supported additional taxes on the oil companies. McCain is opposed to such taxes and has proposed across-the-aboard tax reductions for industry as a way to help the economy.

Election-year politics hung over the debate. Democrats know their energy package has no chance of becoming law. Even it were to overcome a Senate GOP filibuster _ a longshot at best _ and the House acted, President Bush has made clear he would veto it.

But there was nothing to lose by taking on Big Oil when people are paying $60 to $100 to fill up their gas tanks.

The oil companies have been frequent targets of Congress. Twice this year, top executives of the largest U.S. oil producers have been brought before congressional committees to explain their huge profits. And each time the executives urged lawmakers to resist punitive tax measures, blaming high costs on global supply and demand.

In addition to the proposed windfall profits tax, the Democrats' bill also would have rescinded tax breaks that are expected to save the oil companies $17 billion over the next 10 years. The money would have been used to provide tax incentives for producers of wind, solar and other alternative energy sources as well as for energy conservation.

In an attempt to dampen oil market speculation, the legislation would require traders to put up more collateral in the energy futures markets and would provide authority to regulate U.S.-based trading in foreign markets. And it would make oil and gas price gouging a federal crime, with stiff penalties of up to $5 million during a presidentially declared energy emergency.

After Tuesday's defeat, Democrats did not rule out pushing the issue again.

"This was politics at its worst," complained Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. "This was a refusal to debate the biggest problem confronting the American people. ... That takes nerve."

WASHINGTON — Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the ...
WASHINGTON — Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the ...
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- NetWeasel I'm a Fan of NetWeasel 2 fans permalink
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You want to stop a WHOLE BUNCH of this mess?

80% War Profit Tax.

No Profit for Blood!

(All War Profit taxes (Retroactive to 2003) go straight to the principal of the National Debt)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 06/10/2008
- Shaddup I'm a Fan of Shaddup 16 fans permalink
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Halliburton, here comes the taxman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 06/10/2008
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ABSO FREAKINGLUTLY

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 AM on 06/11/2008
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What total, unmitigated pigs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 PM on 06/10/2008

Likewise I'm sure. Ya'll have a oink good day ya hea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 PM on 06/10/2008
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Nope, you ought to take a bow.
Liberal democrats have apposed every single refinery, drill head and nuclear reactor for better than thirty years. Hadn't you thought there might be a consequence?..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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Oh yes! BUT we SAVED the snail darter! Until we found another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

Red,

Along with quite a few Republicans. Didn't Republicans have a large majority in Congress and Senate for over a decade?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 06/10/2008

Refineries are underutilized. We don't need any more of them. We never will because with peak oil removing even more oil from the market, the US will use less and less gas. A lot of people can't afford $8-10/gallon. Which we will see before 2012. And refineries take 20-30 years to amortize.

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 06/10/2008
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Refineries were DELIBERATELY idled to decrease supply.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 06/11/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

I have to assume you are either talking about the Kennedy's or the Klinton's.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 PM on 06/10/2008

Your ASSumtion has mad an ASS out of you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 PM on 06/10/2008

The petroleum corporate marketing strategies are approaching the height of dishonesty in terms of the demand factor rationale for the dramatic petroleum/energy costs. I will refer to only one of many covert planning efforts to increase American consumer demand.

In the mid twentieth century National City Lines (NCL) holding company comprised of General Motors, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, and Firestone Tire Company would develop strategies to nationally dismantle existing electric public streetcar systems with buses. This was an effective strategy to increase private automobile ownership through designed public transportation inefficiency. The increased private automobile ownership would also increase petroleum demand, a masterfully executed corporate strategy resulting in future domestic and international consequences.

The interesting feature of “NCL’s” effective policy implementation is the impact upon later political policy, energy consumption, highway development, pollution, and urban planning (urban sprawl). Effective corporate marketing campaigns created an automobile empire that would result in the crippling economic consequences we are experiencing today.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 PM on 06/10/2008

Yes it was well orchestrated and was a nice ride for a while but the ride is coming to an end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 PM on 06/10/2008
- blytzd I'm a Fan of blytzd 4 fans permalink

I was wondering where Who Framed Roger Rabbit got its plot:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 06/10/2008
- spiffarino I'm a Fan of spiffarino 10 fans permalink

Ah, the old General Motors Streetcar Consipiracy.

They were busted in 1949 and fined a whopping $5,000 in Federal court. Of course, the conspiracy continued for a few more years until nearly all the electric trolleys were dismantled in major cities around the country.

Isn't unchecked free enterprise a wonderful thing?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 AM on 06/11/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

Let me get this straight. In an effort to help American consumers the Congressional Dems have decided to take action that will raise the price of fuel. Is this how they intend to run their universal health care system? Hmmmmm?
OK, for the sake of arguement lets raise fuel to $10/gallon. Only a moron would think that the only consequence would be a benefit for public transportation. Totally disregard all the people you are going to put out of work. A gallon of milk would cost $10.
Social chaos would ensue.
Oh, thats right, that is exactly what some of you morons want. Then we can get back to living in caves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

teembee,

I know. It's horrible. The next thing you know employers would actually have to give their employees "raises". That's an archaic term from the 90's my good friend. You may not have heard it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 06/10/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

Raises? How can you get a raise when you are out of a job? Talk to some of the recent airline folks that are out of jobs and ask them if they are going to get raises. And ask them why they are now unemployed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 06/10/2008

Let me guess... you have an SUV or truck and it's a real hog. It's OK, you will soon sell that big iron and then buy a car you can afford.

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Russia is giving their oil companies billions in tax cuts to develop and explore for new sources of oil . . . the USA is whining for more government control and taxes.

Who would have thought Russia would be using a free market approach and the USA would be the one with government keeping things from their people, times have changed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 PM on 06/10/2008

If you like Russia so much, why don't you move there? No, seriously!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

And Russia's oil is about as far away from free market as you can get. It's regulated in it's entirety just like our utilities used to be before de-regulation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 06/10/2008

You wrote this, verbatim, a few weeks ago. So I'll just cut and paste my own reply:

"Since when did the USA become the country that hurt its people with government restrictions and Russia used free market solutions?"

Tax cuts, provided to an industry that is already the most heavily-subsidized industry on Earth, do not qualify as a "free market solution."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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No ONE of you DimLibs has YET explained how you are going to COLLECT a profits tax from Russia, Venezuela, Iran, or any foreign BIL OIL company!

Just TAX US oil! That makes real economic sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 PM on 06/10/2008
- julescator I'm a Fan of julescator 19 fans permalink

Somehow we manage to tax the American citizens and not tax the citizens of Russia, Venezuela, or Iran. To your point - it''s possible. However, I am not for it, but you have used the wrong logic!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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So, what would be the right logic? Nationalize oil?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 PM on 06/10/2008

WHAT????!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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You want to screw domestic producers in a world market. That is counter productive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Actually Russia is giving their oil companies billions in tax cuts to develop and explore for new sources of oil . . .

Who would have thought Russia would be using a free market approach and the USA would be the one with government keeping things from their people, times have changed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

Unbias,

Do you mean the United States isn't using a free market approach? Does free market mean no taxes?

Who would have thought a neo-con would use Russia as his model for society. Let's do everything Russia does. Russia also directs a high percentage of it's oil profits into programs to build infrastructure and improve cities. You won't see any of that from our oil companies. They just take. Period. That's a truly free market. Pure profit with no investment in your country or the people who work to make your profits possible. Avarice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 PM on 06/10/2008

Yes,another example the Russians are lapping up material luxuries ..they remind me of how the west mentality existed during the eighties.

They are coming out of gross poverty and following the carrot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 06/10/2008

You wouldn't be taxing US oil. You would be taxing profits of companies which import 60% of their oil from other countries. That you don't understand that speaks volumes about the amount of thought you have spent on your post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 06/10/2008
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That would lower the price of gasoline and increase production how?
That would make companies wish to import more oil why?
Explain how punishing the oil companies will be a good thing.
Thanks.

It seems as though liberals first insist on doing nothing at all, then try to tax their way out of the predicament.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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Horse poop!
How are you going to tax BP? Citgo?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 06/10/2008
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If congress wants to tax obscene windfall profits that have a destructive element for a majority of Americans Paint a bullseye on Sally Mae corporation. the government guarantee student loan company makes sit in your seat 37% profits after taxes.

Big Oil is making 8% and all you all are howling in the streets. Big oil has some huge investments to make to ensure that we keep the lights on.

Sally Mae is ripping off our sons and daughters enslaving them with debt. Obscene profit 37% or 8%.
Lets choose our battles wisely.

Fix the loss in the electric grid we lose 50 % in transmitting the power. Conserve and innovate,
Rail Freight investment, ride a bus walk when you can. And hope that the renewed interest, and investment in the oil sector, will pay Dividends with more supply soon. Peak oil is being realized, the Europeans placed high tax on their fuel, the high price makes the use of fuel a precious resource
making a conscious choice.

Unfortunately oili isn't air we are not entiled to use the most per capita on a global basis and not end up paying the piper. The Bill is due, the drive in drive through America must change voluntarily or be forced to through necessity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 06/10/2008

"Fix the loss in the electric grid we lose 50 % in transmitting the power. "

Check your facts, you are off by 40%. Grid losses are on the order of 10%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 06/10/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 78 fans permalink

price gas at ten dollars/gal and public transportation will undergo a rennaissance and all manner of alt fuel will be developed. instead of worrying about oil company profits the oil companies should be encouraged to price gouge themselves out of business.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 PM on 06/10/2008

Oil companies are not going to build public transportation systems and they won't be building themselves. Where are the tax dollars going to come from to build them? Any ideas?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 06/10/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 78 fans permalink

there is no law against a privately owned public transportation system. the financial incentive for private investment will appear when it cost you ten dollars/ gal to drive your car forty miles to work just to park it in the company parking lot for the day. in fact companies should charge an outrageous price for parking to give you more incentive to leave your car at home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 06/10/2008

What would you do if you owned a company and your employees are incompetent and $%cking up your company?You FIRE THE WHOLE BUNCH!!!! THA'S WHAT YOU DO and replace them with competent productive workers. We need to do the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 06/10/2008

Well 60 million morons in this country put that jackass back in the White House. I guess that is all anyone needs to know about the intelligence of this country. Hell, look at Rover the Dog

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 06/10/2008

I can't argue with that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 06/10/2008

The United States is the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world. That is some serious pumping power. You cannt say that it is a production problem, nor blame OPEC. It is a consumption problem. We consume a dispropotionate share. We need to conserve. A windfall profits tax should pay for immediate conservation steps.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

If is a production problem if you don't produce enough product to meet demand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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Drill HERE! Drill NOW Pay LESS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 06/10/2008

Demand per capita is twice of everyone else in the world. It is a disproportionate amount of waste. For all I know, once you stop wasting (like by buying a Prius), you can afford $10/gallon gas. I can. Can you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 06/10/2008

I live out in the country so I really can't cut my gas consumption unless I ride my horse to work.,But then I'd have to leave the house much earlier and besides the price of oats would probably shoot through the roof also.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 06/10/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

Well, so far not a single neolib has explained how this assinine proposal would have helped the American consumer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

teembee,

Higher taxes lessen demand and force conservation. Supply and demand.

neolib? What's that? And why shouldn't Big Oil pay it's share of taxes? I pay my 50% of my income.

I also favor a much higher tax on gas at the pump to really discourage useage and lessen demand and force a trun to alternative renewable energy sources. There is just no excuse for our dependence on oil. Electric cars are just around the corner. Big Oil is fighting tooth and nail to keep America a misreable oil-addicted junkie.

Did you know we spend less than 1% of our budget on building and maintaining our transporation infrastructure? Japan spends 7%. Our nation is crumbling due to the gross and obcene burning of fossil fuel and everybody knows we could change it quite easily if we really wanted to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Higher taxes on oil raises the price of everything and pretty much puts people on the edge, over the edge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 06/10/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

What planet are you from? You think we need to raise the price of gas to solve the problem? If that isnt a typical neolib idea, I have never heard one. You folks have never met a problem that cant be taxed.
You may want our country to commit economic suicide on the way to alternative energy sources, but most rational people dont think our death is necessary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 06/10/2008

This is the second piece of known flawed legislation to get rebuffed this week. The other was the cap and trade delirium. The headline on HuffPo was the same-"Republican block...." The Democrats don't want to get anything done, they want the sound bite damning the Republicans. They introduce bilge they know has no chance. They should be able with their majority and "the will of the people" behind them to do something. They are wasting everyone's valuable time politicing from the Dome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 06/10/2008

You MUST be joking. The REPUBLICANS are the ones who have held out for cap-and-trade all these years. They like it because "it's a market solution." For just as long, Democrats have advocated fines, mandatory emissions controls, higher CAFE standards, etc.

Then when the Democrats offer up a cap-and-trade bill, it's no longer good enough for the Republicans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Cap & Trade is a dumb idea when there are no alternative solutions offered like allowing us to build nuclear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 06/10/2008

More bilge. Cap and trade is simply redistribution of wealth. Give the non producers some leverage against the producers. Socialist to the core. Your play is accurate-Democrats want to think they can solve things with MORE control. The Democrats offered up nothing. Bill was shut down by "dozens" of Democrats. A warning shot across the bow is all they were after. They knew it had no chance but to warm your panels for the next time. Pity. If they were strong in their convictions and pure in their soul, it couldn't not proceed. As it turns out they got their hearty sound bites and have moved on to try and tax the ones who produce. Recurring theme .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 06/10/2008
- andyboy I'm a Fan of andyboy 78 fans permalink

florixie,

Just wait until after the 2008 elections my good friend. Then you'll see some real majorities. I mean after the Repubs lose more seats and the Presidency. I'm sure the neo-cons will cry all the way through the good times just like they did while Bill Clinton was at the helm. It's funny how after 14 years of Republican dominance and them literally ramming through any law or bill they wanted literally destroying our economy and throwing the taxpayer to the wolves the righties still have the nerve to show their faces in public and complain. Talk about blatant hypocrisy.

It's a strange bird who actually wants to be associated with massive failure and corruption. That's a Republican for you though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 06/10/2008

Chickens have to hatch to be counted. The Democrats have "been in charge" for the last year. Confidence breeds confidence. The opposite is also true. Your "massive corruption" is pale compared to the blunders your neophyte is in for.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 PM on 06/10/2008
- nativeeyes I'm a Fan of nativeeyes 5 fans permalink

Republicans and the Economy are like water and oil..


Or bettet yet, Common sense vs No sense at all..

GOP IS TOAST!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 PM on 06/10/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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When you take the DimLibs off the collective, what do they know about the economy?

Oh YEA! They know how to kill it! Tax it to DEATH!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 PM on 06/10/2008

Well more than Victor Ashe's boyfriend knows. He has been spending money like he and Vic were at a all male revue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 PM on 06/10/2008
- teembee I'm a Fan of teembee 4 fans permalink

Well then please take this opportunity to explain how this proposal was designed to help the economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 06/10/2008
- incontempt I'm a Fan of incontempt 2 fans permalink

Toast!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 PM on 06/10/2008
- Diplomacy I'm a Fan of Diplomacy 10 fans permalink

Oh yes! The same 'Grand Old Party' whose FEARLESS Leader says:

VETO the BEER!!!

YA VETO BUDWEISER!!! The beer brewed by Cindy McCain's brewery!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 06/10/2008

The cost of being a rich good looking re-tread wife for Senator Bimbo?

How many beaten wives and hungry children? How many dead and injured roadside victims? How many skid row homeless?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 06/10/2008
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That's "Greedy Old Perverts" or "Gang of Pedophiles" IMHO:

http://www.armchairsubversive.org

"Party of Christian family values?" Like Hell.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 06/11/2008

where's my hydrogen powered car?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 PM on 06/10/2008

Hydrogen is not really much of a solution, not yet.

Aside from fuel storage being a total headache, most hydrogen is manufactured by -- cracking hydrocarbons, particularly methane.

Sure, you CAN make hydrogen by electrolyzing water, but that remains a very expensive and inefficient method.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 PM on 06/10/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

LOL, any place with below 0 temps the hydrogen car is worthless currently not to mention the price doesn't make it a smart decision.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 06/10/2008
- incontempt I'm a Fan of incontempt 2 fans permalink

The key there is affordable solar to run electrolizer...there are industrious fella's doing it now...but they do have a dozen 500 gallon storage tanks LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 PM on 06/10/2008
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