House passes new surveillance law

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PAMELA HESS | June 20, 2008 08:24 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — The House on Friday easily approved a compromise bill setting new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits arising from the government's terrorism-era warrantless eavesdropping on phone and computer lines in this country.

The bill, which was passed on a 293-129 vote, does more than just protect the telecoms. The update to the 30-year-old Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is an attempt to balance privacy rights with the government's responsibility to protect the country against attack, taking into account changes in telecommunications technologies.

"This bill, though imperfect, protects both," said Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., and a former member of the House intelligence committee.

President Bush praised the bill Friday. "It will help our intelligence professionals learn enemies' plans for new attacks," he said in a statement before television cameras a few hours before the vote.

The House's passage of the FISA Amendment bill marks the beginning of the end to a monthslong standoff between Democrats and Republicans about the rules for government wiretapping inside the United States. The Senate was expected to pass the bill with a large margin, perhaps as soon as next week, before Congress takes a break during the week of the Fourth of July.

The government eavesdropped on American phone and computer lines for almost six years after the Sept. 11 attacks without permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the special panel established for that purpose under the 1978 law. Some 40 lawsuits have been filed against the telecommunications companies by groups and individuals who think the Bush administration illegally monitored their phone calls or e-mails.

The White House had threatened to veto any surveillance bill that did not also shield the companies.

The compromise bill directs a federal district court to review certifications from the attorney general saying the telecommunications companies received presidential orders telling them wiretaps were needed to detect or prevent a terrorist attack. If the paperwork were deemed in order, the judge would dismiss the lawsuit.

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It would also require the inspectors general of the Justice Department, Pentagon and intelligence agencies to investigate the wiretapping program, with a report due in a year.

Critics of the bill say dismissal is a foregone conclusion.

"These provisions turn the judiciary into the administration's rubber stamp," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif. She opposes the bill.

Opponents of immunity believe civil lawsuits are the only way the full extent of the wiretapping program will ever be revealed.

Key senators voiced strong opposition to the compromise, although they're unlikely to have the votes to either defeat or filibuster the bill. Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, condemned the immunity deal. He said that nothing in the new bill would prevent the government from once again wiretapping domestic phone and computer lines without court permission.

Specter said the problem is constitutional: The White House may still assert that the president's Article II powers as commander in chief supersede statutes that would limit him actions.

"Only the courts can decide that issue and this proposal dodges it," Specter said.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi of California disputed that, saying FISA would from now on be the authority for the government to conduct electronic surveillance.

"There is no inherent authority of the president to do whatever he wants. This is a democracy, not a monarchy," she said.

Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic candidate for president, said in a statement that the compromise accepted by the House was an improvement over the bill he had opposed last year.

"Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the president's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over," Obama said. "It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay."

Some civil liberties and privacy groups are also opposing the bill. They object not only to the immunity provision but to what they consider the weakening of the FISA court's oversight of government eavesdropping. For example, the government can initiate a wiretap without court permission if "important intelligence" would otherwise be lost. It has a week to file the request for approval with the court, and the court has 30 days to act on it. But if the court objects to how the government is carrying out the wiretap, it could be weeks before those methods are changed or stopped.

"What we have here is the opportunity for the government to commit mass untargeted surveillance," said Texas Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee.

Opponents also contend the privacy of Americans who communicate with people overseas is not adequately protected. The bill would allow the government to tap the foreigner's calls without court approval, and critics contend that innocent American conversations can be swept up in that.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendment bill also would:

_Require FISA court permission to wiretap Americans who are overseas.

_Prohibit targeting a foreigner to secretly eavesdrop, without court approval, on an American's calls or e-mails.

_Require the government to protect American information or conversations that are collected when in communications with targeted foreigners.

_Allow the FISA court 30 days to review existing but expiring surveillance orders before renewing them.

_Allow eavesdropping in emergencies without court approval, provided the government files required papers within a week.

_Prohibits the president from superseding surveillance rules in the future.

WASHINGTON — The House on Friday easily approved a compromise bill setting new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits arising from the g...
WASHINGTON — The House on Friday easily approved a compromise bill setting new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits arising from the g...
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I was a party to the ACLU lawsuit in CA, where the phone companies violated state as well as federal law. I doubt our lawsuit will survive. Pelosi, Hoyer, and the House Democrats are a joke.

The House is so unbelievably weak, so mousy, so mundane -- exceeded only by the Senate in its calumny -- that if Hitler or Pinochet was President, even they'd have their entire program supported by Congress. As other commentators have noted, Obama was absent from this debate. Completely invisible. Possibly he covets Bush's imperial power. Wouldn't that be sweet.

And people ask me, why are you wanting to live overseas? Get a clue, America. You're sliding down many slipper slopes, exceptionally fast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 06/21/2008
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"Get a clue, America. You're sliding down many slipper slopes, exceptionally fast."

It is shocking how quickly it's happening.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 AM on 06/21/2008
- gorgol I'm a Fan of gorgol 34 fans permalink

It almost seems "Biblical"­..and maybe it is. Nothing makes sense. People acting opposite of what seems rational..­.as we head for a second war in the Middle East...
Could it be??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 AM on 06/21/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Throw the bums out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 06/21/2008

As the leader of the Democratic Party, I am rather shocked to hear that Barack Obama is supporting this bill. As a immobilizer and candidate of change, I was fully expecting him to come out against this, regardless of the bill's bipartisan support. As a former Constitutional Law professor, Barack Obama has the expertise and knowledge to assert that this is clearly a violation of civil liberties. He needn't be afraid to challenge his fellow Democratic colleagues and show his opposition. He's spewn negative rhetoric about George Bush for years, and to give in to his demands right now is just reinforcing the stereotype that Democrats are WEAK and that Congress is INEFFECTIVE.

I am still a supporter of his candidacy, and to consider supporting a Republican candidate is not an option, but this choice of judgment has placed a bold question mark in my mind and I wonder if he is really the leader that he proclaims to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 06/21/2008
- aristippe I'm a Fan of aristippe 13 fans permalink

you're the leader of the democratic party?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 AM on 06/21/2008

I apologize for the ambiguity of the sentence.

I meant to say that as Barack Obama assumes the role of leader of the Democratic Party..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 AM on 06/21/2008

Vote Pelosi out this fall. Vote Cindy Sheehan in. Give money to her campaign. Obama is loaded. So is Pelosi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 06/21/2008

i already gave to Sheehan's campaign.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 06/21/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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I already donated to Sheehan today, but I don't think she has a chance to unseat Pelosi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 AM on 06/21/2008
- darthmaul I'm a Fan of darthmaul 19 fans permalink

Pelosi-All show and no dough! The only time she took an unpopular stand was her support for condemning Turkey for genocide against the Armenians, an event that happened about 100 years ago, an event that dwarfs the issues of today like the Iraq war and the FISA bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 AM on 06/21/2008
- alienufo I'm a Fan of alienufo 3 fans permalink
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at least my congressman did the right thing and voted against it :(

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 06/21/2008
- Coyote2 I'm a Fan of Coyote2 85 fans permalink
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Do we no longer have any heroes to fight for us? Who will save us from these monsters?

The democratic house is obviously COWED; have these wiretaps been used to collect info to blackmail our representatives?

Look, when least popular president in history visits the house he receives a standing ovation: obviously these fools have been cajoled and coerced into cooperating. Bunch a weak kneed monkey b low j obbers.

Haaaaaaaaa­ack.......­..........­..........­..........­.s p i t!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 AM on 06/21/2008

I think history shows that, in large measure, change happens when the people become involved.


It is not enough to elect the "right" people. That's just the beginning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 AM on 06/21/2008
- afgail I'm a Fan of afgail 59 fans permalink

We really have a Hobbson's choice. There is a reason the Democrats in congress's approval rating is even LOWER than the presidents. It's because they have not and will not defend our constitutional rights. They have lost their way. This country is ripe for change and the Democrats think that means the wind is at their backs. They are only partially right. A credible third party leader could change the course of the country the way Lincoln did and the Democrats AND Republicans will be minority parties.

If Obama loses and the Democrats in the senate remain neutered maybe then we will see the rise of a third party, possibly led by Russ Feingold.i

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 AM on 06/21/2008
- torrrep I'm a Fan of torrrep 12 fans permalink

You haven't had any heroes since Kennedy and I don't mean Teddy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 AM on 06/21/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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0bama's spokesman Bill Burt0n released this statement a little while ago:

"To be clear: B-arack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.­" (my hyphen)

---
Phone and email O with your thoughts:
866-675-2008

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/contact/

http://obama.senate.gov/contact/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 06/21/2008

Rule Of Law
"They can pass all the bills they want, but it won't count because the Constitution forbids changing a law after a crime has been committed to protect the criminal."
-----

You can't make a previous act criminal.

You can decriminalize a previous act.

That is what ex post facto means.

EX POST FACTO - Term used to designate action taken to change the effect given to a set of circumstances. This action relates back to a prior time and places this new effect upon the same set of circumstances existing at that time. Ex post facto laws are prohibited by the U.S. Constitution.

Not every change in a convicted person's situation violates the Ex Post Facto Clause. A law implicates the Ex Post Facto Clause only if it criminalizes conduct that was not a crime when it was committed, increases the punishment for a crime beyond what it was at the time the act was committed, or deprives a person of a defense available at the time the act was committed. Collins v. Youngblood, 497 U.S. 37, 42-43 (1990). Courts have held that legislation may lawfully impose new requirements on convicted persons if the statute's 'overall design and effect' indicates a 'non-punitive intent.' United States v. Huss, 7 F.3d 1444, 1447 (9th Cir.'93).

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e052.htm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 06/21/2008
- Moarku I'm a Fan of Moarku 6 fans permalink
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No, but granting immunity isn't the same as making it legal. It's just saying, "We'll look the other way and not prosecute.­"

The problem is, usually immunity is given in exchange for something. For example, you might give it to the driver of a car in a drive-by shooting in exchange for his testimony against the actual shooter. My question is what did the American people get in exchange? Will there be a real investigation that the telcoms will testify in against particular members of the Bush administration? Or will the administration just whine "state secrets" or "executive privilege" thus preventing anything from happening at all?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 06/21/2008
- evekendall I'm a Fan of evekendall 127 fans permalink
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"My question is what did the American people get in exchange?"

I think Nan.cy Pel.osi made some lame statement along these lines: that from now on they would do a better job of protecting the fourth amendment. Nice, huh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 06/21/2008
- syllepsis I'm a Fan of syllepsis 24 fans permalink

The retroactive immunity deprives a person of a defense that was available at the time the act was committed.
The ex post facto clause applies best to cases such as sedition, which are 'victimless' in that they don't target a particular person. I believe that historically the clause was inserted into the Constitution because the Government had abused it in situtations like that. In fact, it is intended primarily to stop the Gov't from cooking up charges on dissidents, not protect said Government. That is one very large problem with this legislation. It is unconstitutional because it violates the SPIRIT of the laws. The principle of limited government is thrown out the window here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 AM on 06/21/2008
- syllepsis I'm a Fan of syllepsis 24 fans permalink

I meant, it deprives a person of a means to redress a wrong that was committed against them. Preventing such deprivation is surely is in keeping with the spirit of the Clause.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 AM on 06/21/2008
- LITU I'm a Fan of LITU 89 fans permalink
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Sell-out, sell-out, sell-out! Our representatives are nothing but sell-outs, all but 129 of them.

Fascist America. Anybody doubt that any longer?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 06/21/2008

nope

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 AM on 06/21/2008
- plages I'm a Fan of plages 18 fans permalink

Are you listening Sen. O, no more drilling, other than what the oil companies already have under their belts, and that would be 60 + million acres in which the can already drill! They sink a new well in offshore, or ANWR, your sunk!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 06/20/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

When approached by the executive branch, the lawyers of Qwest decided there would be legal problems with not utilizing the FISA court and subsequently declined. AT&T, Verizon, and others agreed and wiretapped Americans without seeking FISA court approval.

Now, the U.S. House and U.S. Senate will pass a bill (FISA amendment) that grants immunity to the telecom industry for conducting illegal activities.

Clearly, such a bill, when passed into law by the bush administration is unconstitutional. It will grant impunity for breaking law established in 1978. These laws established in 1978 were as a direct result to Nixon’s Watergate activities.

A big if. If the United States Supreme Court has a preponderance towards its part in checks and balances, established law, and privacy rights, they would step in and overturn this soon to be signed law.

Contrary to those who claim FISA must be updated to reflect advances in technology, I would like to remind that FISA allows immediate gathering of information with a later submittal to FISA within 72 hours. It was built as a secretive, fast-track court. In fact, a judge was once called for permission while at sleep at his home. Is that fast enough?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 06/20/2008

Question. Why hasn't the Supreme court stepped it yet on all the other unconstitutional issues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 06/20/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

I suspect it is because like other pursuit of truth, those in power have the opinion it would damage the U.S.

They fail to realize several points; by pursuing the truth:


Our country will prove no one is above the law

Our country will prove we will right wrongs

Our country will prove those who have been damaged will be made whole.

Our country will prove those who have been killed; their families will be made whole.

Our country will prove we are to be trusted and friends of mankind


None of this will happen without fortitude. Both by first the citizenry and then the politicians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 06/21/2008

The Supreme Court can't "step in"

They have to wait until there is a case in front of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 06/21/2008
- afgail I'm a Fan of afgail 59 fans permalink

Because the Supreme Court is complicit in the Republican march toward fascism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 AM on 06/21/2008
- torrrep I'm a Fan of torrrep 12 fans permalink

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the long list of Americans who were supposedly spied upon. I have read about ONE organization that possibly had ties to terrorism. You libs bitch that Bush didn't do anything to stop 9-11. I guess he could use "we didn't have probable cause" excuse. You libs wouldn't know probable cause if it bit you in the ass. How many of the 9-11 hijackers received Visas and trained in flight schools on U.S. soil while Clinton was president? Probable cause? Are you kidding me? I want to see this long list. Since all of you keep moaning about it then please let me know the names of all of these individuals who were supposedly spied upon. The Supreme Court ruled in February that only those that know they were monitored and suffered damages could sue. So where are all the lawsuits? I'm waiting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:44 AM on 06/21/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

The U.S. Supreme Court can intervene at any point they wish. They review lower case and they also review as part of their trinity of checks and balances.

No one is going to give you a list of Americans that the bush administration spied on.

Telecom companies data mined millions of American’s coms. A whistleblower, an employee with AT&T, hooked up the hardware in a restricted room in San Francisco.

There are currently forty lawsuits brought forth by individuals and companies. Apparently, they believe they have evidence they were spied on. The concept of spying is to gather information without being detected. If done competently, you could be spied on and not know it.

It is well documented bush was warned about terrorist activity by the previous administration. It is also documented internationals were training in flight school on American soil. One of the 9/11 terrorists told his instructor he wanted to only know how to fly aircraft and not how to take off and land. Don’t you think that’s a pretty big dot to connect?

This all was known before 9/11. The bush administration failed to connect the dots.
And yes, bush wouldn’t know probable cause if it bit him in the ass. bush failed to protect Americans causing the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history.

He did manage to read the story, “The Pet Goat”. At least seven minutes of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 06/21/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

The U.S. Supreme Court can intervene at any point they wish. They review lower case and they also review as part of their trinity of checks and balances.

No one is going to give you a list of Americans that the bush administration spied on.

Telecom companies data mined millions of American’s coms. A whistleblower, an employee with AT&T, hooked up the hardware in a restricted room in San Francisco.

There are currently forty lawsuits brought forth by individuals and companies. Apparently, they believe they have evidence they were spied on. The concept of spying is to gather information without being detected. If done competently, you could be spied on and not know it.

It is well documented bush was warned about terrorist activity by the previous administration. It is also documented internationals were training in flight school on American soil. One of the 9/11 terrorists told his instructor he wanted to only know how to fly aircraft and not how to take off and land. Don’t you think that’s a pretty big dot to connect?

This all was known before 9/11. The bush administration failed to connect the dots.
And yes, bush wouldn’t know probable cause if it bit him in the ass. bush failed to protect Americans causing the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history.

He did manage to read the story, “The Pet Goat”. At least seven minutes of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 06/21/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

For over an hour, the moderator will not allow me to reply and defend my post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 06/21/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

No one is going to give you a list of Americans that the bush administration spied on.

Telecom companies data mined millions of American’s coms. A whistleblower, an employee with AT&T, hooked up the hardware in a restricted room in San Francisco.

There are currently forty lawsuits brought forth by individuals and companies. Apparently, they believe they have evidence they were spied on. The concept of spying is to gather information without being detected. If done competently, you could be spied on and not know it.

It is well documented bush was warned about terrorist activity by the previous administration. It is also documented internationals were training in flight school on American soil. One of the 9/11 terrorists told his instructor he wanted to only know how to fly aircraft and not how to take off and land. Don’t you think that’s a pretty big dot to connect?

This all was known before 9/11. The bush administration failed to connect the dots.
And yes, bush wouldn’t know probable cause if it bit him in the ass. bush failed to protect Americans causing the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history.

He did manage to read the story, “The Pet Goat”. At least seven minutes of it.

Typical neocon; blame Clinton for bush’s failures.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 06/21/2008

It's time for a third party!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 PM on 06/20/2008
- Meggie I'm a Fan of Meggie 86 fans permalink
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there ARE other parties. there are other parties both liberal and conservative. now why can't they count on votes? why don't we demand for them to be included in debates? why do we allow MSM to marginalize them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 06/21/2008

This is Just the House ... the Senators Have Yet to Vote on this ... That is Next Week ... After that we will all see where we stand with Mr. Obama ...

President Obama '09

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 06/20/2008
- evekendall I'm a Fan of evekendall 127 fans permalink
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There is only one power that the people have left...tha­t is the power of THEIR VOTE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 06/20/2008
- comebackid I'm a Fan of comebackid 6 fans permalink

Diebold?

Surpreme Court?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 06/20/2008
- evekendall I'm a Fan of evekendall 127 fans permalink
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You're right, of course...a­nd Diebold, especially, needs to be replaced by paper ballots that can be recounted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 AM on 06/21/2008

uuummmmmm I wouldn't just limit the peoples power to just the vote. I can think of several examples of people power that they can exercise with out violence. However all options are on the table.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 06/20/2008
- billysviez I'm a Fan of billysviez 4 fans permalink

i'm not sure Our Votes count for anything, anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 AM on 06/21/2008
- Lonw I'm a Fan of Lonw permalink

.

Hey Obama,

I had high hopes for you...
but our vote in favor to compromise on this bill has just CANCELED my vote for you.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 PM on 06/20/2008
- kevenseven I'm a Fan of kevenseven 501 fans permalink
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I'm pretty sure that Ob ama does not read Huffpo.

You might want to call his campaign office.

Oh, and he has not yet voted for the bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 06/20/2008
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You are right, but he said he would be backing the bill. He hopes to have the Telecom Immunity part stripped, but if it's not he should not vote for that bill. And that goes the same for all Democrats. That is the only point. It's not an "I'll vote for McCain" if he does, but it's not a good omen if he does vote for immunity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 06/20/2008
- janvoght I'm a Fan of janvoght 8 fans permalink
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like wow, one little vote...whe­re are you gonna put your all important vote, in mc cain's presidency­....where have you been for the last 8 years, really? have you not been paying attention? our country needs inspired people man, not turn-coats­...stop the self-pity and start being pro-active. you can write and call in protest, but you'd rather threaten the only person willing to make actual change in the "old school" corruption? wake up...if you're not part of the solution..­.you are part of the problem, ya know?
OBAMA '08 & 2012

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 06/21/2008
- Meggie I'm a Fan of Meggie 86 fans permalink
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why do you think mccain is the only option?
if Obama continues to sell out, then why would any liberal vote for him?
being proactive may require a vote for nader or barr or any other candidate on your ballot. our country needs an electorate who isn't quite as brainwashed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 06/21/2008
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