Mormon church enters Calif. gay marriage fight

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JENNIFER DOBNER | June 24, 2008 04:13 AM EST | AP

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SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is asking California members to join the effort to amend that state's constitution to define marriage as being between a man and a woman.

A letter sent to Mormon bishops and signed by church president Thomas S. Monson and his two top counselors calls on Mormons to donate "means and time" to the ballot measure. A note on the letter dated June 20 says it should be read during church services on June 29, but the letter was published Saturday on several Web sites.

Church spokesman Scott Trotter said Monday that the letter was authentic. He declined further comment, saying the letter explains the church's reasons for getting involved.

The LDS church will work with a coalition of churches and other conservative groups that put the California Marriage Protection Act on the Nov. 4 ballot to assure its passage, the letter states.

In May, California's Supreme Court overturned a voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, saying gays could not be denied marriage licenses.

"The church's teachings and position on this moral issue are unequivocal. Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and the formation of families is central to the Creator's plan for His children," the four-paragraph letter states.

"We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to ensure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman," church leaders say in the letter. "Our best efforts are required to preserve the sacred institution of marriage."

California Mormons _ there are more than 750,000, according to a church almanac _ have heard and heeded similar calls from their leaders before.

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In 2000, a letter from the pulpit asked members to give time and money in support of Proposition 22, a ballot measure prohibiting California from legally recognizing gay marriages performed outside the state. It passed but was later struck down by the courts.

The LDS church also fought same-sex marriage legislation in other states during the 1990s. As recently as 2006, it signed a letter to Congress seeking an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage as being between a man and a woman.

The latest letter is a disappointment to members of Affirmation, an international support group for gay, lesbian and transgender Mormons. Last month, Affirmation called on the church not to meddle in California politics.

"This initiative will hurt so many people," executive director W. Olin Thomas said in a statement Monday. "The California law affects civil marriage; it has no effect on any religious institution or official."

Affirmation leaders are scheduled to meet with the head of LDS Family Services, a church social services agency, in August to begin a conversation meant to bridge the divide between Mormonism and gay members hurt by church teachings that homosexuality is a sin.

It will be the first meeting between any arm of the church and Affirmation, which was formed in secret in the 1970s by students at the church-owned Brigham Young University in Provo.

"We're not going to let this stand in the way," Affirmation spokesman David Melson said. "The church has said they are open to finding new avenues and new solutions to minister to gay members, and we are taking them at their word."

___

On the Net:

http://www.lds.org

http://www.affirmation.org

SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is asking California members to join the effort to amend that state's constitution to define marriage as being between a man and ...
SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is asking California members to join the effort to amend that state's constitution to define marriage as being between a man and ...
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- KaAp I'm a Fan of KaAp 23 fans permalink

I am sick of the LDS church for anyone who has grown up in the West or lived out west remember how the churches were always across the street from public schools? Or how about how they used to get ticked off at content in curriculum I recall one school edited Shakesphere to ease Mormon complaints about Midsummer Night's dream ...
I shudder at the happy caffeine free coca cola free smiling hordes of happy faced funky underwear wearing mission going people who have the audacity to tell others how to live their own lives ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 06/24/2008
- sfsilver I'm a Fan of sfsilver 3 fans permalink

their interference in politics and economics in the midwest in the 19th Century resulted in their being driven from Missouri and Illinois. Like all religion they are about controlling lives, consolidation of power and greed. They just raise these impulses to a special art. All with a phony smile on their face and a gentle voice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 06/24/2008
- KaAp I'm a Fan of KaAp 23 fans permalink

I think the LDS crossed over the line and should have all federal tax incentives removed since they are dabbling in politics ... but it won't happen we live in a fascist theocracy ... How dare any one tell anyone else who can and can not get married ...
I am so sick of religious groups infringing and spitting on the constitution .,..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 06/24/2008
- TheBlackCat I'm a Fan of TheBlackCat 303 fans permalink
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Take heart, gay rights activists! Even the military is jumping on the gay rights bandwagon!

http://www.military.com/news/article/dont-ask-hitting-women-harder.html?col=1186032307786

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 06/24/2008
- fair1234 I'm a Fan of fair1234 2 fans permalink

I used to have issues with Gay marriage but I came to realize that I should not care as long as they are not taking my man! LOL I think people have a right to love and marry whomever makes them complete in this world and no oneelse should get involved in that. They are not hurting anybody and it is a choice between them and their God so I am not judging or pointing fingers. I have gay friends and co-workers and one of them is the sweetest guy I have ever met and he derserves to be happy and if marriage does that for him then I hope I get the first invitation to the wedding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 06/24/2008
- klmebane I'm a Fan of klmebane 20 fans permalink
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part 1

i love hearing from people like you! it gives me hope that the narrow-minded can grow and get to know someone who is different, and see that people like me just want the same things out of our lives that they do. i want to work hard and make something of myself, and make a life with the person i fall in love with. maybe raise a family. i can't help what i feel, if i could i wouldn't feel it. i'm not going to fake it and do the "traditional" thing and marry someone i don't care for romantically. is it fair to insist, by law, that i don't have the right to marry the person i am in love with because someone else doesn't approve or it makes them uncomfortable?! i'm not involving myself in their relationships and deciding if i think they should be together and make a life together. it's like barging into a husband and wife's life and telling them how many children they will have! why is it their business?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 06/28/2008
- klmebane I'm a Fan of klmebane 20 fans permalink
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part 2

share how you feel with others who think like you used to. people need to see that we are just like them, except for who we are attracted to. we want the same things out of life. we want to be able to be with our loved ones in the hospital if they are sick, make medical decisions for them if they are incapacitated. many gay people don't talk to their families. haven't for years. some have families who have disowned them. if, god forbid, something should happen and they are seriously injured, people with whom they have not associated should now make important medical decisions?? over the person who has been living with them and involved in their life for the past _____ years??

no, that doesn't make any sense. than you fair1234. you give me hope in this world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 06/28/2008
- fair1234 I'm a Fan of fair1234 2 fans permalink

I used to have issues with Gay marriage but I came to realize that I should not care as long as they are not taking my man! LOL I think people have a right to love and marry whomever makes them complete in this world and no oneelse should get involved in that. They are not hurting anybody and it is a choice between them and their God so I am not judging or pointing fingers. I have gay friends and co-workers and one of them is the sweetest guy I have ever met and he derserves to be happy and if marriage does that for him then I hope I get the first invitation to the wedding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 06/24/2008
- TheBlackCat I'm a Fan of TheBlackCat 303 fans permalink
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I think the problem is that a lot of people here don't understand the mindset of fundamental Christianity. I see so many posts saying that it has nothing to do with you, you are free to practice your religion, and how is it your business what two individuals do in their bedroom, or whether ot not they get married?

The problem is, it's not that they just think they're telling people what to do because they're "right." They honestly think homosexuality WILL affect them personally. I didn't know this until my husband and I got a houseboat in Amsterdam and started traveling there often. He is from the rural deep south, and I was really surprised that when his relatives found out we were living part time in the Netherlands, they were extremely concerned. Why? Because The Netherlands has legalized prostitution AND gay marriage, and God will be sure to strike them down ANY DAY NOW. Not all of them believe this of course, but there are many fundamental Christians who honestly think that if gay marriage is permitted in the U.S., the floods and famines and plagues will be upon us all.

Therefor, you cannot argue with these people that gay marriage has nothing to do with them. Hopefully as the years pass and Holland and Massachusetts AREN'T destroyed by lighting strikes or locusts, these folks will begin to see the error in their ways. I'm not holding my breath though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 06/24/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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What I don't get is how that ban got there in the first place. I mean California? What happened people? You are supposed to be one of the most progressive states in the nation.

Even Mass. allows same sex marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 06/24/2008
- sfsilver I'm a Fan of sfsilver 3 fans permalink

it's called Orange County and the Central Valley. Religious conservatives and rich Republicans. The measure also passed when the whole Gay marriage issue was fairly new in public discourse. The proponents were able to capitalize on the fears of change and there were no examples like Canada, Mass. Spain, South Africa etc.. to demonstrate that some how the world didn't come to an end with legal Gay marriage.

Also Democratic leadership has utterly chickened out on this issue. The most prominent political figure to emerge as a leader on this issue is a Mayor (Gavin Newsom). Instead of leading, the Democratic party as a whole has taken a backseat on the issue out of fear. I believe it will go down in history as an embarrassment to the party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 06/24/2008
- Dave01 I'm a Fan of Dave01 9 fans permalink

That's not completely accurate. 2 years ago the Democratic Assembly and Senate passed an Amendment to make same-sex marriage Constitutional here in CA, but Arnie vetoed it and the Democrats didn't have enough of a majority to override his veto.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 AM on 06/25/2008
- pattio66 I'm a Fan of pattio66 9 fans permalink

Why does any religion think it should have any say in a LEGAL contract entered into by consenting adults? One doesn't need a pastor, a priest, a rabbi, or an imam to get married in this country; all one needs is another consenting adult and a justice of the peace. Has anyone suggested that churches must perform gay marriages? I trust churches to decide for themselves whether to participate in such celebrations. I do not, however, trust churches to tell me whether gay marriage should be legal or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 06/24/2008
- kkuate I'm a Fan of kkuate 2 fans permalink

I am torn....I am also confused and unable to make up my mind.

The Homosexual lifestyle is as old as humanity. Being homosexual does not mean being promiscuous anymore than being heterosexual. At the same time, people of any sexual orientation can love, be committed, and faithful to the chosen partner. However, Mormon theology principles. like marriage, encompasses this life as well as life after the resurrection, and homosexuality does not fit their beliefs.

Perhaps the principle of Free Agency should be tossed in the equation. As long as Mormons believe non-mormon marriage contracts of any kind, have no validity after death, then, why not let people be happy in this life with their chosen lifestyle? I am LDS and do not feel threatened by gay people in any degree. Gay people have feelings and sexual orientation just like anybody else, so why force them and shackle them with laws they can not live by?

As long as I am given the space and respect to live my life any way I choose, I certainly can reciprocate.
Is it possible that I am wrong? Is homosexuality a curable lifestyle? I certainly don't know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 06/24/2008
- jfor I'm a Fan of jfor 18 fans permalink

Is being LDS curable? not likely, How bout evangelical hypocrisy, is there a cure for that? What America really needs is a cure for stupidity, or a balm for being nosy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 06/24/2008
- kkuate I'm a Fan of kkuate 2 fans permalink

"Is it possible that I am wrong? Is homosexuality a curable lifestyle? I certainly don't know"

Please ignore this line.... It is not right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 06/24/2008
- oafishcad I'm a Fan of oafishcad 46 fans permalink

Homosexuality is a curable lifestyle inasmuch as heterosexuality is also a curable lifestyle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 PM on 06/24/2008

Don't they mean......between one man and MANY wives? Of course, none of the wives can be Black!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 06/24/2008
- hugs4u I'm a Fan of hugs4u 12 fans permalink

Mormons believe in really young wives for their men also. Look at the Mormons in Texas. To me one Mormon sect is the same as the rest, just some are more open about their beliefs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 06/24/2008
- 1099 I'm a Fan of 1099 6 fans permalink

So the gay guy dressed as leather clad butterfly, doped up on ecstacy, running down the street and Larry Craig soliciting sex in an airport bathroom are both representative of the entire gay community?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 06/24/2008

Hey genius, the people at the YFZ ranch are not Mormons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 06/25/2008
- fair1234 I'm a Fan of fair1234 2 fans permalink

knew a morman guy that told me blacks are decendents of Cain and it is not their fault for being born black. Also says Mormans will neer tell you to your face when they come to your door that blacks will not enter the highest kingdom in heaven. If a white morman dates a black, that white morman is giving up the highest kingom in heaven for that love. Mit Romney would have had all this blown up in his face if he were the nominee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 06/24/2008
- Benthead I'm a Fan of Benthead 3 fans permalink

There's no disputing the LDS church's racist history, but fair1234, your claims above are inaccurate. There are no distinctions placed on white-black marriages between church members (or any interracial marriages). African American Mormons are no longer given a different role in the theology. Yes, the church used to have very racist policies--they have repealed them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 06/24/2008
- fair1234 I'm a Fan of fair1234 2 fans permalink

Hi Benthead, my white male companion at the time is a long time Mormon as well as his family and he told me these things and that is why I did not come back to visit the church. These are his words and not mine but I can say they treated me very nice when I visited the church of latter day saints. This is just what he told me when we were hanging out. I do not know if it is fact but I had to take his word since he was born into this religeon and his entire family is all mormans. I have not spoken to him in years so I do not know anythingelse about the church.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 06/24/2008

Read their proposed amendment carefully - "women" isn't a typo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 06/24/2008

California (and every U.S. state) should right now pass a bill that would automatically stop any tax exemptions for any religious organization that wishes to insert it's opinion or beliefs into the laws of any state in this country. That we have separation of church and state is no longer enough. It's now time to start making these people pay taxes when they recommend one candidate over another. In the southeast (where I'm from) there have been preachers that stand on the pulpit and tell their members if they don't vote a certain way they will burn in hell. Now the IRS will kick a little guy to the curb and take everything from him and his family but where are these same people when a church openly breaks the laws of this country? Last I heard they were investigating the situation. How long does it take to watch a tape, listen to a statement on the tape and say "pay up you wonderful little Southern Baptist". Economy fixed overnight. Why shouldn't they pay their share anyway? What is the reason for them not paying taxes? I have to, you have to, why not them? They now have more political power than any one individual in this country. Let them pay for that right if they use it!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 06/24/2008

This might run into trouble with the Federal Constitution, and they certainly could not affect federal taxation laws.

In the meantime, I suggest that people bombard the IRS with complaints about this activity which arguably violates Federal Tax laws and regulations by taking the time to fill out and mail the IRS complaint form created to deal with this type of matter. It can be found here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 06/24/2008

You ask "What is the reason for them not paying taxes?"

Answer: They are a non-profit organization, as are hospitals, universities and numerous others. What would be next for you after silencing the churches? Storm the universities if what they are teaching does not meet with your approval? Jawohl, Herr Doktor 'keclxivq'. I think I see where you're coming from. Go burn some books. Cool if the books are Bibles, eh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 06/24/2008
- TheBlackCat I'm a Fan of TheBlackCat 303 fans permalink
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The problem is that some churches have become political lobbyists, while many are just churches trying to help their community and congregation. Unfortunately those churches which wish to affect our government and its laws are the most vocal.

I personally have lost my faith in Christianity as a whole, but I had very positive experiences with the Catholic churches I attended when I still had faith. Their missions were very clearly to help those in need to provide money, food and shelter to those most vulnerable. Their activities were not political in nature, they were all focussed on helping the poor, the sick, etc, in the US and abroad, and innumerable impoverished families were aided by their activities.

If the IRS determines that a particular congregation is taking advantage of their politically exempt status to try and become a lobbying arm that doesn't have to pay taxes, I agree that they should loose their status. However I imagine this would be very hard to prove. But in the end it is not fair to punish ALL religious institutions just because there are SOME which seek to surpass the division of church and state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 06/24/2008
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Not true. It's not that they are simply non-profit organizations. Churches enjoy a tax exempt status as long as they stay out of politics. It's quite specific and for good reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:36 PM on 06/24/2008
- GoBecky I'm a Fan of GoBecky 2 fans permalink

This cracks me up. On the same day that Dobson's attacking Obama for "distorting" the Bible (which is itself pretty ironic), based on the idea that the laws of the Tanakh don't apply to Christians (which is a perfectly valid argument when it comes from people who abide by it themselves)... the LDS is joining a coalition to change the law... based on the laws in the Tanakh. Is it any wonder that fervent religious belief & schizophrenia have so much in common?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 06/24/2008
- jayburd I'm a Fan of jayburd 14 fans permalink
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This is a real blow (no pun intended) to gay polygamists everywhere and the GFLDS Church in particular.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 06/24/2008
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