Reid Won't Support FISA Compromise, At Odds With Obama

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First Posted: 06-24-08 08:35 PM   |   Updated: 07- 2-08 05:12 AM

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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced this evening that he will vote against the compromise FISA legislation and work with likeminded colleagues to strip immunity for telecom firms from that bill.

It is a position that puts the Democratic Senate leader at odds with his own party's presumptive presidential nominee, Barack Obama, who also has pledged to fight for the removal of immunity but will vote yes on the final package.

"I am not going to vote for the FISA bill," said the Nevada Democrat. "There are people, Mr. President, who have worked on this FISA matter for three months or more and again the administration worked with them. Did they, on the FISA bill, move enough to make me vote for the bill? The answer is no."

Reid's position seems, at this point, unlikely to change the contours of the debate. This past week, Democratic negotiators in the House and Senate came to an agreement to pass a sweeping overhaul of the nation's electronic surveillance laws, in the process granting conditional immunity for telecommunications companies who participated in the previously illegal program.

That update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act passed the House by a vote of 293 to 129; the majority of the Democratic caucus voted nay.

On Wednesday, one of the FISA legislation's principle opponents, Russ Feingold, announced that he would try to use procedural measures to strip out the immunity provision.

"We are going to resist this bill," said the Wisconsin Democrat. "We are going to make sure that the procedural votes are gone through. In other words, a filibuster is requiring sixty votes to proceed to the bill, sixty votes to get cloture on the legislation. We will also--Senator Dodd and I and others will be taking some time to talk about this on the floor. We're not just going to let it be rubberstamped."

But the Senate has filed (and seems likely to pass) cloture on the FISA legislation and amendments to strip the bill of immunity would likely require 60 votes for passage, something that, with a divided Democratic caucus, almost certainly won't happen. As noted by Congressional Quarterly: "A similar amendment to a previous version of legislation overhauling the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA, PL 95-511) failed by a vote of 31-67 in February."

Reid's position is still a relatively bold political move. While Sen. Barack Obama has expressed reservations with the compromise (and supports an amendment stripping immunity from its language), he nevertheless said he would support the bill. That the Senate Majority Leader would willingly take a different stance from his party's presidential nominee is an indication of both the political pressures of the current election as well as the emotional divisiveness of the FISA battle.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced this evening that he will vote against the compromise FISA legislation and work with likeminded colleagues to strip immunity for telecom firms from that bil...
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced this evening that he will vote against the compromise FISA legislation and work with likeminded colleagues to strip immunity for telecom firms from that bil...
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Common Obama its time for you to step up on this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 06/25/2008

Obama better not cave to Bush on this telco immunity bullshit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 06/25/2008
- Manx I'm a Fan of Manx 18 fans permalink

Obama should not try to prove his national security credentials by voting for the FISA bill with retroactive immunity for the telecoms. If he does, it will be a clear case of political expediency over principles. He says he a man of principles and this is the time to prove it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 06/25/2008
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So now he makes a stand. What a worthless leader. As strong as lint and as bold as jello.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 06/25/2008
- wm1066 I'm a Fan of wm1066 33 fans permalink
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Wait for the other shoe to drop.
Reid has learned from Arlan Specter how to say one thing then give Bush what he wants.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 06/25/2008
- antworks I'm a Fan of antworks 4 fans permalink
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At least someone other then Mr. Feingold has the courage to fight the immunity for the telecoms provision and this bill, in general. Yea, it will be hard getting 60 votes to sustain it. But, someone has to try or at least go on record opposing this thing. It would help if someone with some real clout, like Mr. Reid, got on board. Mr. Feingold and the other brave Senators that oppose it can't do this on their own. My gosh, will our country ever get its sanity back? Is the law real or just something to be brushed aside at the administration's preference? This constant refrain that "Americans need to be afraid that terrorists will strike us again, at home"; needs to be exposed for what it is. Scare tactics. That's all it is.
A lot of people cry and scream bloody murder at the comparison, but this is exactly how Hitler took over Germany and reeked destruction on all of Europe. You need to be afraid - give me the power and I will protect you, he told German citizens and the Reichstag. As oft repeated, you either learn from history or you are bound to repeat it, people. My country looks for fascist everyday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:20 PM on 06/25/2008

"At least someone other then Mr. Feingold has the courage to fight the immunity for the telecoms provision and this bill, in general."

No, he didn't. He voted for cloture. Those 60 votes you refer to? It got 80. And Reid was one of them. Reid is not fighting anyone, or for anything.

And when he ultimately votes "no" when it comes to the floor, don't be fooled. He can do that now, risk-free, because he knows the bill will pass overwhelmingly. In other words, he will hide against other Senators who ACTUALLY oppose the bill, like Feingold.

And least when Obama (and, I hear, Clinton) vote "yes," they will be taking a position and standing by it rather than hiding behind their colleagues like cowards.

Make sure to compare the list of 15 who voted against cloture with the list of those who vote "no" when it eventually comes for a vote. Any "no" votes who weren't on the list of 15 are a bunch of pandering cowards.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 06/26/2008
- jazzman I'm a Fan of jazzman 236 fans permalink
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Obama's FISA stance. His first big mistake!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 06/25/2008
- gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 242 fans permalink

B.Sanders, ... good job!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 06/25/2008
- Lemeritus I'm a Fan of Lemeritus 109 fans permalink
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12:10 PST - FISA being debated on C-SPAN 2.

Saxby Chambliss now arguing the vulnerability of the poor "patriotic" companies cooperating in good faith with what he refuses to admit is a lawless administration. Back to "frivolous lawsuits" again. Mostly what you would expect from a Republican from Georgia -- no offense, to my friends in Georgia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 06/25/2008

Saxby Chambliss was only elected because the republicans were willing to paint a war hero who fell on a grenade to keep it from killing his friends as some kind of coward. They actually put up ads of Max Cleland with Hitler and Osama bin Laden. In America do we have one party that will do anything for power. And that's what put Chambliss in office over Cleland. It's disgusting and most of us are sick of it. I do not agree with Obama's stance on the FISA issue. I have blogged against it. I have called his offices and his campaign. I have written letters and signed a petition. He will not receive my monthly donation either. But when it comes to Nov. There is one clear chance to send the "win at all costs", "do whatever we want" republican's a message. That will be to elect Obama and clean house on the republicans. If nothing else sends a message that will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 06/26/2008
- gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 242 fans permalink

D.Feinstei­n speaking from the floor now ... C-Span2 ... seemingly, she feels this bill as is is ok!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 06/25/2008
- Lemeritus I'm a Fan of Lemeritus 109 fans permalink
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Surprised?!

Just listening to these senators speak in favor of the bill makes me sick to my stomach and sick at heart. This is nothing more than a shield for Bush's lawlessness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 06/25/2008
- gladys46 I'm a Fan of gladys46 242 fans permalink

No!! Never!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 06/25/2008
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Supposedly, this bill does not shield them from criminal liability, only from civil charges. I don' t really see how that helps a hell of a lot because they won't bring criminal charges either. BS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 06/25/2008

No surprise there. DiFi and Nancy P. are cut from the same cloth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 06/25/2008
- 1099 I'm a Fan of 1099 6 fans permalink

Aren't these the people (and Reid) who lead the democratic charge to take back Congress in 2006 and haven't done isht since then?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 06/25/2008

She thought that Mukasey and Hillary were OK also. Not much use for this one

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 06/25/2008
- Sylmason I'm a Fan of Sylmason 9 fans permalink
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Reid neds a vacation, maybe retirement. Did the "old" fart read the bill? Does he fully understand it? Afterall he has voted for some really dumb stuff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 06/25/2008
- MetryJen I'm a Fan of MetryJen 3 fans permalink

Huh, go figure. Harry Reid does have some principles after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 06/25/2008

Nope. He doesn't. Check the headlines.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 06/26/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 24 fans permalink
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Harry Dweeb may not support it today or tomorrow, but eventually, as usual, he WILL cave.

They always do.

Haven't you heard about the boy who cried wolf too often - we stopped listening - that goes for Fancy Nancy, too.

They have proven their spinelessness CONSISTENTLY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 06/25/2008
- Krikkit I'm a Fan of Krikkit 14 fans permalink

What is his f-ing problem? Now I know why so many Democrats are calling to have this bozo replaced.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 06/25/2008

Reid is like the converse of Arlen Specter: Specter speaks out against the bushevik's radical policies, but then votes in favor of them in the end. Reid, on the other hand, works as hard as he can in favor of the bushevik's radical policies, and then votes against them.

Back when this bill was still in committee, Reid could have single-handedly prevented telecom immunity by accepting the Judicary Committee's version of this bill. Instead, he brought the Intelligence Committee's version, the Cheney/Rockefeller bill, which was the first to introduce the telecom immunity, to the floor.

He's also going to ignore Chris Dodd's "hold" on the bill - a courtesy he regularly extends to republican Senators like Tom Coburn and Mitch McConnell. (Senators must unanimously agree to allow a particular piece of legislation to come to the floor for debate - a "hold" is when a Senator objects to it coming to the floor.)

He's also going to force Chris Dodd and others to actually filibuster the bill "the long way", when he regularly allows republicans to filibuster bills without actually having to engage in "extended debate" (the "60 vote threshold").

Don't be fooled - Reid hasn't "grown a spine". He just finds it easier to "stand up to" members of his own party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 PM on 06/25/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 24 fans permalink
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You are very perceptive AND correct.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 06/25/2008
- Lemeritus I'm a Fan of Lemeritus 109 fans permalink
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Sad. But true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 06/25/2008

Captain Obvious - YOU are correct Sir!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 06/25/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 276 fans permalink

Yup! Why doesn't someone call Reid's betrayal out to his face? He clearly thinks the people are too stupid to know he could have stopped it cold...On his own.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 06/25/2008

Isn't Reid currently holding it hostage because of the Republican hold on the housing bill? Who is the Senator that Dodd was calling out for putting a hold on that bill?

BTW, thanks for everything else in the comment. Info=good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 AM on 06/26/2008
- imajoebob I'm a Fan of imajoebob 7 fans permalink

Perhaps the single saving grace to this debacle would be the immunity would prevent the TelCos from claiming 5th Amendment exceptions from testifying. If a President Obama - or even a pissed off McCain, doesn't invoke "National Security" claims, they have to tell what happened, and who actually broke the law. Last I knew, this doesn't confer immunity on Justice or Executive principals.

Sure these guys just crumbled, but given past Bush acts, it's not that far-fetched to infer threats of retribution. And perhaps personal threats, not just commercial. I have my ethics, but I'm not sure I could withstand a very real prospect of being "disappear­ed." Sure that's paranoid, but it's actually within the realm of possibilities with these thugs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 06/25/2008
- Krikkit I'm a Fan of Krikkit 14 fans permalink

Except... with blanket immunity there's no leverage by the prosecutor to offer it in exchange for full testimony. (This rationale was offered to me by a lawyer friend who is savvy to such things.) Although the court found that businesses (like telecoms) are "entities" in the legal sense, as far as I know they are not protected by individual rights spelled out in the fifth amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 06/25/2008

Yes and no. First, we need to get some facts. Does this bill grant immunity from civil suits only or also criminal prosecution? I believe it gives civil immunity only, but if I'm wrong I'd love anyone to link a helpful cite.

A prosecutor in a criminal action against someone in the Bush Administration (by then, it will be the former Administration) can offer transactional immunity to the telecoms and they would then ordinarily be compelled to testify.

Corporations are individuals under the law. Corporate officers can invoke the 5th, and can be compelled to testify, just like you and me, in the face of a grant of transactional immunity.

Last, nothing in this bill immunizes anyone in the Bush Administration or Congress. It only applies to telecoms. Whether this amounts to a de facto grant of immunity to Bush is a debate for another day (or on another cite which allows more than 250 words).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 06/26/2008
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