Obama On FISA: Security Trumps Suing Phone Companies

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First Posted: 06-25-08 06:49 PM   |   Updated: 07- 3-08 05:12 AM

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In a press conference on Wednesday, Sen. Barack Obama explained his support for a compromise on FISA legislation, saying that concerns over American security trumped, at this point in time, objections over immunity for telecommunications that participated in the previously illegal program.

"The bill has changed but I don't think the security threats have changed. I think the security threats are similar," said the Illinois Democrat. "My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people. I do want accountability, and making sure, as I've said before, someone is watching the watchers, that you don't have an administration that feels that it can make its own determinations about when warrantless wiretaps are applicable without going through a FISA court and that's what we had."

Obama's support for the compromise legislation, which includes a sweeping overhaul of the nation's electronic surveillance laws and grants conditional immunity for telecommunications companies who participated in the previous program, has effectively cast him against prominent members of his own political party. The House of Representatives passed the legislation this week with the majority of Democrats voting nay. The Senate, late Wednesday, voted to end debate on the measure, which could pass that body as early as Thursday. Only 15 Senators voted against cloture.

For Obama, however, the trickier aspect of this debate is explaining why, during the Democratic primary, he promised to defeat any FISA compromise that included telecom immunity and now, in the general, he is seemingly hedging on that pledge. The Senator, in a previous statement, said he would work to remove such a provision from the bill and offered to support an amendment doing just that. On Wednesday, he elaborated on that statement.

"It is a close call for me, but I think that the current legislation with the exclusivity provision that says that a president, whether it's George Bush or myself or John McCain, can't make up rationales for getting around the FISA court, can't suggest that somehow there's some law that stands above the laws passed by Congress in engaging in warrantless wiretaps. The fact that that provision is in there I think is very important and provides us protection going forward. The fact that that provision is in there I think is very important and provides us protection going forward."

His remarks may not be enough to placate Democrats invested in the fight. For this faction, the issue of immunity remains one of constitutional limitations -- as in, citizens, organizations and others should have the right to sue the government over illegal electronic surveillance. Obama, however, is framing immunity as a sticking point to a much more important legislative objective: putting in place a legal security apparatus. And thus, for critics, his support for the new FISA compromise seems more about demonstrating national security toughness than righting past wrongs.

In a press conference on Wednesday, Sen. Barack Obama explained his support for a compromise on FISA legislation, saying that concerns over American security trumped, at this point in time, objections...
In a press conference on Wednesday, Sen. Barack Obama explained his support for a compromise on FISA legislation, saying that concerns over American security trumped, at this point in time, objections...
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I think actually reading it is too much to ask. Some people just prefer to be outraged.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 06/26/2008

That was supposed to be a reply to Chillinout below. Then I tried to reply and was informed I was banned from commenting. Perhaps Comment Maintenance is in order?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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I got it. :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

seriously.
I lost a comment that said it was rejected for bad language or some such.

there was no bad language i9n it.
none.

sigh.
I wish there had been now.
;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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As Jon Stewart so eloquently puts it: We are dealing with Baracknophobia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 06/26/2008

Double talk. I'm out. I'll stay home and have a beer in November. All he is offering now is more of the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 06/26/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

McCain is more of the same. If you feel that way, pick the lesser of two weevils.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 AM on 06/26/2008

Spoken like some one who was never a supporter in the first place. Better stock up on the beer 4 more years of republican rule you're gonna need it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 06/26/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 264 fans permalink
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You sound daft---and just looking for trouble.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 AM on 06/26/2008
- plainsman I'm a Fan of plainsman 17 fans permalink
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For me, I supported certain principles and ideals. I thought he stood for them. I can handle compromise on many issues. The constitution is not one of them. And no, I wasn't a supporter from the beginning. I supported Biden, but once he dropped out I supported Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 AM on 06/26/2008

Much of what Obama offers is different. You will not live long enough to see a bigger difference in a presidential candidate. In fact, there may never be one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 06/26/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

I think there is more going on here than is immediately obvious.

I'd like to see O vote against this bill, but there may be a longer term strategy at work. If it's true W is going to veto it...

Think of what O can push through as president with a Democratic majority in the House and Senate. We may be ok after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 06/26/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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"If it's true W is going to veto it... "

The White House has commented that this bill is better than W expected he'd get, there has never been talok of him vetoing this, just the opposite, he's been pushing for this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 AM on 06/26/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

It's not blanket immunity, just civil immunity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 AM on 06/26/2008
- Probus I'm a Fan of Probus 9 fans permalink
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Bush is expected to sign the final bill. The only sticking point was the telecom immunity which he will get.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 AM on 06/26/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 AM on 06/26/2008

"Think of what O can push through as president with a Democratic majority in the House and Senate. We may be ok after all."

Now that he's backtracking, this is precisely what scares me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 06/26/2008

Get your heads out the sand people, how quick you forget what cost Kerry the election. Leaders know when to start a war. Obama needs to win before he can do a dam thing about FISA nor anything else for that matter. 4 more years of Bush policies believe me FISA will be the least of our problems. Once Obama is in office he'll be able to do something for now he's being smart, don't give the republicans amo to destroy you before you get on the battle field.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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For those of you interested in actually reading the bill.

H.R. 6304

Relevant sections are:

Sec. 802: Procedures for Implementing Statutory Defenses

Sec. 803: Preemption

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 AM on 06/26/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink

Obama’s FISA Betrayal

By Matthew Rothschild, June 24, 2008

Barack Obama’s rightward sprint is nowhere more obvious than in his betrayal on the FISA bill.

This bill allows the President to grab all incoming and outgoing international communications without a warrant.

The ACLU says it represents “an unprecedented extension of governmental surveillance over Americans.

Obama, sounding on Friday a lot like Bush, said: “Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay.”

Here’s what Bush said the same day as Obama: The bill “allows our intelligence professionals to quickly and effectively monitor the plans of terrorists abroad, while protecting the liberties of Americans here at home.”

But it doesn’t protect our liberties, and Obama ought to know that.

Obama said it “firmly reestablishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance.”

But the ACLU notes that the bill “permits only minimal court oversight. The FISA Court only reviews general procedures for targeting and minimizing the use of information that is collected. The court may not know who, what, or where will actually be tapped, thereby undercutting any meaningful for the court and violating the Fourth Amendment.

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0602408

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 06/26/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Good post buckygreen! Just responded to a fellow Dem below who misunderstood what this bill really does, too many aren't aware of how sweeping this is and how our right to privacy in what we say or email to anyone when we're abroad or vice versa, will now be completely gone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

AMEN!

All of this twisting and turning trying to find a way to justify the unjustifiable is making me dizzy.
We must trust our leader to do the right thing.

yikes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 AM on 06/26/2008
- drzoon I'm a Fan of drzoon 15 fans permalink

i am OUT as a HUFFINGTON POST reader/blogger.

i just got edited out for using words ... actually a phrase.. that i just read in the LA Times a few days ago.

something is up on this site.... and is now useless.

(believe me.... it wasn't so bad as to be "mildly offensive")

see ya around suckers!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 06/26/2008
- Gary47 I'm a Fan of Gary47 15 fans permalink

Security Trumps Suing Phone Companies. Well of course it does. Just like security trumps abortion rights. Just like security trumps environmental cleanups. Just like security trumps gay marriage. Just like security trumps the mortgage crises. Just one thing. None of them are related. Note to Barack - stop acting like we can't figure that out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 AM on 06/26/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 264 fans permalink
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The counter argument is of course that if you don't have security, the environment won't matter, the babies won't matter, gay rights won't matter, nor will mortages matter.

Not even the Constitution will matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 AM on 06/26/2008

hey Obama.
I worked grassroots and have donated 1,250 bucks. This is not Change I can believe in. This is the same as you call it bamboozle of fear. what threats? The ones we can't address within the constitution? I'll tell you the biggest threat we face , the unitary king, the one who will 'monitor' big brother that you feel is a 'tool' we need. No thanks, this is not Democratic this is not constitutional this is bs. Wow just wow!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

the original FISA bill has worked fine since its inception. It needs to be restored as is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 06/26/2008
- smoo I'm a Fan of smoo 2 fans permalink

I can't take anymore tonight. I have to get some sleep. But chew on this. People complain about stuff like this until something goes down. Then people start raising the alarm talking about "where was the surveillance." Those damn cameras that spy on use as we buy Twinkies have caught and help put a lot bandits in jail. For the price to have some one snoop why I buy some now-laters and a bag of Doritos, it not all that bad, at least to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 06/26/2008
- plainsman I'm a Fan of plainsman 17 fans permalink
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That's great and all, but were not talking about video surveillance of a public place or surveillance of a private establishment. We are talking about the surveillance of private communications without the consent of communicators and without the consent of the courts. There's a big difference, and yeah, maybe you could use some sleep.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 06/26/2008
- smoo I'm a Fan of smoo 2 fans permalink

You are right, there is a difference. I don't really understand how its a big difference. The notion of privacy is relative anyway. I am not suppose to be eating now-laters and if someone found out I was buying Doritos when I was suppose to be delivering post-it notes to the 12th floor I might get in big trouble. Everytime you use your credit card, every time pay your electric bill, every time you use your cell phone, every time you use the internet you are leaving a "digital" figer print. Have you been to google maps lately. You can actually see street level views of peoples neighborhoods. This is google! If goofy google can do this for free, over the public internet, can you imagine what the government can do. Hell they need access to those damn phone lines. Period. They can already see "via" satellite anyone they want to see.

Bottomline, its just not the big a deal to me, all of my stuff if out there anyway, people even sell it with give me cut.

It is way to much information and data out there, I just don't believe normal citizens doing normal things have that much to worry about. Really, we only think we are different, we really are not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

oh please.
Fisa has worked fine since its inception... the original bill. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the criminals in the WH hadn't screwed with it and are now demanding the original be done away with and their own BS is in place.
It is criminal. The tools are there if they are used.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 AM on 06/26/2008
- wmholt I'm a Fan of wmholt 31 fans permalink
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Sorry, but even if President Bush is handed a briefing document that says, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike within the United States", he will just do nothing.

Gathering more and more communications does not keep us safe. All of that extra chatter being monitored simply drowns out the important stuff. This FISA bill has nothing to do with keeping us safe. It's all about Telecom immunity so that Bush will not have people go after him once he leaves office.

Obama's position on this one will be remembered like Hillary's vote for the Iraq War and the Kyl Lieberman amendments. He's a constitutional scholar -- he knows full well what he is asking us to sacrifice, and it has nothing to do with safety.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 AM on 06/26/2008
- plainsman I'm a Fan of plainsman 17 fans permalink
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"My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."

So that's his rationale. Security. We are being protected just fine under Bush's unconstitutional programs. Why capitulate this late in the game. Bush only has 7 more months. Then Obama could have a Surveillance Bill tailor-made that includes greater protections for our liberties and no immunity for the telecoms. I don't see the need for this newfangled sense of urgency. It is not in the best interest of our country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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Here's another way to look at it.

Even though O'bama is getting all kinds of grief from within his own party, he is still standing his ground. Would you respect him more if he came out tomorrow and voted against it?

He said before that he would vote against the FISA bill if it contained blanket immunity for the telecoms. This bill doesn't. I respect the fact that he is standing up and not caving just because a percentage of his party thinks it is wrong, like me.

This is only one issue among many that are going to need to get resolved. He can't please all the people all the time so there are going to be times when we, (I) don't agree with him on certain issues. If he agreed with me on every issue, I would have to question his sanity. :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 06/26/2008

Thank you for living true to your username and keeping your cool while others cluck like Chicken Little.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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If everyone here would go read the actual bill, I think a lot of them would cool down too. I went and read it and then had a lawyer friend of mine explain the parts that I didn't quite understand. I am a lot more okay with it now then I was before.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 06/26/2008

Where did you read that this bill doesn't give BLANKET IMMUNITY? If it didn't then Feindgold and Dodd would not be against it. Obama (and I was a supporter but now I have 300 names of those who are now leaving his campaign) is caving into the repugnikkkan stance. He is also giving the repugnikkkans the opportunity to SPY on his campaign. I find that SHOCKING! There are personal things in the lives of each one of us that the government needs not to know about. Things that if they place in a data record could lead some of us to be discriminated against. So this bill is ENCOURAGING crime to be committed. Senator Obama is encouraging crime!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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Because it is only civil immunity, not criminal immunity. That is not blanket immunity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 AM on 06/26/2008
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It's even on the article, if you'd read it all! It only gives 'CONDITIONAL IMMUNITY'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 AM on 06/26/2008
- ohmercy I'm a Fan of ohmercy 25 fans permalink

Hey, Chill
it is not about agreeing or not agreeing. It is about the law, it is about the Constitution, it is about the Bill of Rights, it is about our civil liberties which are supposed to ber sacrosanct and which Obama, as a constitutional lawyer is supposed to know.

The contortions and reasoning to defend the indefensible is stunning.

Just because you or anyone disagrees with him, calls him on this BS does not make him "bad" does not mean you can't vote for him.
Our job is to hold the Governmental representatives feet to the fire.

They work for US... they represent us and our liberties.
When you let them take away one liberty the next is surely going to follow.

You get the government you deserve. We have let the criminals in the WH get away with too much hoping the Dem's were going to restore law and order when we elected them in 2006. Now we find we have nominated someone for President who we thought was going to protect our rights... according to the speech he gave just last august and it turns out he's ready to vote them away?

WHY?
And why should we condone the stripping of our rights?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 06/26/2008

This whole exercise is political theater. W has already indicated that he will reject the bill because it only extends civil immunity, not criminal. So after he vetoes, it will be redrafted and then the fight will be on in earnest, at which point you can count on the Dems to keep it from passing through other maneuvers.

O is playing chess while you're all panicking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 AM on 06/26/2008
- macbabe I'm a Fan of macbabe 107 fans permalink
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but there was a teat vote that came out 80 to 15 and it's expected to pass by tomorrow evening?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 AM on 06/26/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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I like this one better.

LMAO

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 06/26/2008
- macbabe I'm a Fan of macbabe 107 fans permalink
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"test" vote I meant to type.. sorry

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 06/26/2008
- plainsman I'm a Fan of plainsman 17 fans permalink
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Could you provide a link or some evidence that supports your claim that Bush intends to veto this bill in its current form? I didn't think so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 06/26/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/bush-praises-fisa-deal-war-vote-2008-06-20.html

Bush will sign this abomination laughing at the spineless Dems once again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 06/26/2008

Sen. Obama and the democratic leaders I think have a plan is in play here. Let the dem's go fight against FISA while allowing Obama to NOT be put in a position to allow the republicans to do to Obama what they did to Kerry which was to paint him as being weak on security and terrorism. Right now the polls say McCain has a big advantage over Obama in only ONE area -- When asked who would best handle terrorism McCain has a sizable lead. We may all be smart enough to know that's not true but many people do not, and it would take nothing for the republicans to turn this bill into Obama being weak on terrorism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 AM on 06/26/2008
- plainsman I'm a Fan of plainsman 17 fans permalink
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The constitution is more important than a frigging political game or strategy!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 AM on 06/26/2008
- ElkoJohn I'm a Fan of ElkoJohn 16 fans permalink
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`
helloooo Dems
so yours is the ''candidate of change'' ?
and the ''party of change'' ?

wake up
and smell
the big money, the neocons & the powerful lobbys

then vote Libertarian, http://www.lp.org/
or
Constitutionalist, http://www.constitutionparty.com/

send a message to the Republi-Cratic PARTIES (all two of them)
throw the rascals OUT !

Long Live the American Revolution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 06/26/2008
- macbabe I'm a Fan of macbabe 107 fans permalink
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/i /i /i /i /i /i (up arrows)
l l l l l l

why isn't this one scrubbed???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 AM on 06/26/2008
- Probus I'm a Fan of Probus 9 fans permalink
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Conservatives are framing this as a right and left issue, it isn't. This has to do with honoring the Constitution which this bill doesn't do. Domestic spying at the expense of the Constitution will not protect the country. There is no evidence all this spying has kept us safe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 06/26/2008
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