Serenity Lost: Obama And The Netroots

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First Posted: 06-25-08 11:30 AM   |   Updated: 07- 3-08 05:12 AM

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Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressive netroots, the online community that helped aid the Senator's rise to the presidential nomination, but has since seemingly played second fiddle in terms of courted constituencies.

Obama's decision to embrace a compromise on FISA legislation -- a virtual slap in the face to some progressive bloggers demanding no legal immunity for telecommunications companies -- was the catalyst of the recent chatter. Other concerns arose days prior when Obama cut an advertisement on behalf of a conservative southern Democrat whose primary challenger was favored by the liberal blogosphere.

But for some progressive activists, the issue is not simply one of policy, but a concern that Obama's willingness to snub their political wishes is far more endemic.

"You can see it with FISA. He really doesn't feel that much kinship with the priorities of the netroots and I don't think he has made any secret of that," said Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake. "I have to say he is very consistent. He has gone outside the netroots for his strategy... People who feel betrayed right now, I'm not sure why, because it is extremely consistent with what they should have expected."

Indeed, there is ample evidence to suggest that Obama's standing with the netroots has not always been peachy. Prior to his victory in Iowa, he consistently trailed former Sen. John Edwards (and, on occasion, Chris Dodd) in the Daily Kos primary poll. Even before then, his (now-chilled) relationship with Sen. Joseph Lieberman as well as an essay he posted (again on Daily Kos) concerning Supreme Court nominations earned him some plaudits but also skepticism among some prominent online voices.

As a former aide to Sen. Hillary Clinton told The Huffington Post, had the New York Democrat not had her own problems with the crowd, her campaign would have been a far more natural home for the progressive netroots.

"I don't understand why a group like MoveOn backs Obama," said the aide. "Hillary is the one who will build up the Democratic infrastructure. She's the one promising to fight the ideological battles. He's the one who is talking about moving beyond partisanship. And they love him for it."

Such an argument, however, assumes that the primary goal of major online progressives and their audiences is aggressive partisanship. Some want that. But many are also cognizant of another pressing reality: the need to win. And, as such, there is a willingness to cut Obama a bit of political slack.

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"The number of people Obama's campaign has brought into the political process and the development of the netroots progressive movement has been an important convergence in this election," said Ilyse Hogue, Communications Director of Moveon.org. "But it is not an endpoint. Our goal remains to hold the ground on any issue that matters to the progressive community. [Obama's] goal is... to get elected, to be honest, but also to understand the power of who's electing him. We have reason to be optimistic about that."

Moreover, the desires of the progressive netroots and the realities of the Electoral College are not always at odds. For instance, Obama's decision to forgo public financing in the general election - while viewed sourly among good government groups - was a welcomed move among the most prominent Democratic bloggers.

Others, meanwhile, have been willing to reserve judgment regarding his position on FISA, albeit with demands that he works to defeat the compromise.

"We'll see what he does this week," said Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos. "If he's part of the capitulation or refuses to lead, then it's salient for your story. As of now, I think it's still too early to write this piece."

And, it should be noted, there will undoubtedly be future issues in which Obama and the netroots rally to the same cause (foremost, of course, being the general election). As experts of campaigns past can attest, the internal dynamics within the Senator's headquarters inevitably leave one group or another disappointed.

"There is always a tension between what the Internet department is able to put out and what all the other departments want," said Tim Tagaris, Ned Lamont's Internet Director during the 2006 Senate and an aide in similar capacity to Chris Dodd's campaign in '08. "The question is what battles do you want to fight, because it is a battle everyday. And he's not going to win it all the time because there are people on staff who have been doing this for decades and the Internet as a political tool is relative new."

But clearly, at this point in time, the honeymoon period that Obama enjoyed for the latter part of the Democratic primary and the first weeks of the general election seems to be setting. And a tug-of-war of sorts could soon emerge between progressive bloggers and the Senator, both over campaign positions as well as the affections of Democrats.

Salon.com's Glenn Greenwald offered an opening salvo by chastising Obama supporters for a willingness to rationalize their candidate's position on FISA in a way that was "unhealthy in the extreme." While at the Personal Democracy Forum, the Senator's new-media guru, Joe Rospars, was forced to dispute the premise of an assertion that his candidate was "stand-offish" with the blogs.

"Where we see that he is consistent with the netroots is his organizing and belief in organizing," explained Hogue. "Obviously there is some policy divergence which is crystallizing this week. And that's not incredibly surprising, We still have some work to do as a progressive movement to not just have candidates speak about our issues but act on our issues."

Correction: an earlier version implied that Glenn Greenwald referred to Obama supporters as "Obamabots." He did not.

Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressiv...
Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressiv...
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- LongTom I'm a Fan of LongTom 6 fans permalink

As Mark Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes." This is the "Al Gore is just another a corporate Democrat, he's no different from Bush" argument all over again. There's a small subset of lefties who just aren't comfortable with a winning candidate, who don't live in the real world, and who are willing to sacrifice other people's well-being for the sake of what they perceive to be their 'principles', which usually turn out to be a set of quirky opinions based on poor understanding, lack of information, and half-baked ideology.

Congratulations Glenn Greenwald! Go join the Nader for President meetup!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 06/27/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink

This is the "Al Gore is just another a corporate Democrat, he's no different from Bush" argument all over again.

Hardly. This is about standing on principle, doing what you say you are going to do, and defending the Constitution. I do congratulate Glenn Greenwald, and anyone will else who is adamant that the FISA capitulation - not compromise - represents a full assault on the 4th Amendment, and demands strong opposition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 06/27/2008

Would you like Obama, someone who might actually push for some of the liberal issues out there, or for McCain, who will do NOTHING for us? He has to get elected first, darn! Let it go! We've been being watched for years. The public is always at least 20 years behind what's really going on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 06/27/2008
- tbone99 I'm a Fan of tbone99 102 fans permalink
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At least you wouldn't be voting to screw yourself. Thats the worst part of it the way we're forced to
participate in our own destruction.Sadistic , really.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 AM on 06/28/2008
- scottarino I'm a Fan of scottarino 13 fans permalink
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" what they perceive to be their 'principles',".......which are their principals LongTom genius. They are their principals. Your OPINION is that these are not true principals. I repeat, this is your OPINION. Do not confuse your OPINION with facts. Try logic, it will help you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 06/28/2008
- motamanx I'm a Fan of motamanx 3 fans permalink

Hillary's aide (quoted in the essay) forgot to mention that NOTHING galvanizes the far right into action faster or better than the prospect of Hillary Clinton anywhere near the White House. Her candidacy would have ensured that McCain (or whoever) would win. I don't know why this is so, but it is so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 PM on 06/27/2008

The thing most people are missing here is that Obama didn't just say he was against telecom immunity as a policy platform, he literally PROMISED to fillibuster it...on video no less.

First, retroactive immunity is a crazy idea that has no basis in precedent. There is nothing "lefty" about letting the courts decide if laws were broken. The only reason to let telecoms off is to keep the Bush Administration's dirty laundry out of the public eye, as it would become public in the court cases.

Second, this isn't just a little platform adjustment. This is a direct breaking of a promise. Obama looked into the camera and said he would fillibuster it.

I don't expect a candidate to agree with me on everyting. But if he gives his word, then goes back on it, that's different. That means he can't be trusted.

I've backed Obama so far. I voted for him as my Senator. And the last thing I want to see is McBush in office. But I also have principals. A liar is a lair. And I don't trust Democratic liars any more than I trust Republican liars.

So I'll be looking for alternatives.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 06/27/2008
- LongTom I'm a Fan of LongTom 6 fans permalink

You're an ass. "A liar is a liar!" You've never told a lie? If you say 'no' then you're a liar, because I know for goddam sure you have. Go ahead and look for alternatives, you Nader-voting dumbkopf.

"A liar is a liar." What sanctimonious bullshit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 06/27/2008

Excuse me, Mr. Kettle. Did you say sanctimonious?

I've been lied to plenty. But I keep my word, and I don't to spend too much time or effort on people who lie to me.

Blow me hypocrit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 06/27/2008
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So you're supporting lying now (that seemed to be the only substance of your post).
Sounds like a Bush supporter--forgive anything if he's your guy. But you probably think you're different because you're a dem. You're not. You're just a different side of the same myopic, self-righteous, hateful coin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 06/28/2008
- kittyma I'm a Fan of kittyma 16 fans permalink

Have you looked at the amended bill? Do you understand how legislation works? Please stop flying off the handle. Read and think.

BTW retroactive legislation and retroactive executive action are both fully legal. Amnesty is always retroactive. I am less concerned about the telecoms than about the true culprits. But you guys who keep harping on the thing and not thinking are going to push the latter. Think and understand the chess game that has to be played.

It's real easy to sit back and say "he is not doing exactly what I want him to do, so I am going to make sure that he does not win", but with all due respect, it is a stupid knee jerk reaction that will lead to sorrow..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 06/27/2008
- crl9 I'm a Fan of crl9 permalink

Of course he also stated on the 01-22-06 Meet the Press when asked directly by Tim Russert, that he would not run for President or VP in 2008. He would stay and complete his first term in the Senate. yeah...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 06/28/2008

"But for some progressive activists, the issue is not simply one of policy, but a concern that Obama's willingness to snub their political wishes is far more endemic."

Aww, did their poor widdle feewings get hurt? I like that the fact that Obama showed some independence. Let them complain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 06/27/2008
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I don't consider myself a progressive and my "poor widdle fewings" isn't the issue. The issue is a guy campaigned on the basis of being an agent of change and not politics as usual. Seems to me, he's lying before he even gets the official nomination. Which isn't to say I'll vote for McCain. It is to say we've already narrowed it down to the lesser of two evils. And despite all evidence to the contrary people like you mindlessly attack anyone who pokes holes in the pretty little picture they've constructed (reality be damned). Thanks, but no thanks. Some of us want change, not rhetoric. And we wish some of you could tell the difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 06/28/2008
- scottarino I'm a Fan of scottarino 13 fans permalink
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That is exactly why voters need.....no MUST become policy wonks. Talk is cheap, words are cheap, policy is ALL THAT MATTERS. Do not trust anyone until they lay out their policy for scrutiny. That is why this year's primary has become such a joke, Obama coasted with little to no talk of policy and the voters swoooned anyway. Those that did discuss policy all lost out, lost out to the two identical democrats that spoke less of their policy than ANY other democrat. The voter is generally stupid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 06/28/2008

You dems are a bunch of willows blowing with the wind just to get yourselves elected - no backbone at all!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 06/27/2008
- Dustee I'm a Fan of Dustee 61 fans permalink
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And you voted for GW Bush and now you want McSame?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 06/27/2008
- Sabreen60 I'm a Fan of Sabreen60 70 fans permalink
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I heard Lionel on Air America make comments with which I agree. He siae "grow up". 0bama is tacting to the center. That's how you get elected in this country. If you want him in the WH then this is what he has to do. If you want Mc.Same in the WH then let 0bama be far left. He went on to say this is not the primary - this is the general election which is totally different. Lionel went on to say that 0bama is brilliant. Let him win the election and then those issues that give you pause can be dealt with. He already is being tagged as the "most" liberal senator in the senate. There are not enough in the far left to elect him. He has got to move more to center. That's politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 06/27/2008
- elmysterio I'm a Fan of elmysterio 4 fans permalink

So he has to pretend to be a right-wing politician in order to get elected? Are we going to see Obama's inner-progressive show itself after the election? I highly doubt that. The oft-repeated lie that you have to campaign to the right of center in order to get elected is what is contributing to the steady rightward slide of the country's political landscape. Highly dangerous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 06/27/2008
- kittyma I'm a Fan of kittyma 16 fans permalink

You can lie down on a hospital bed having broken all your bones and feel vindicated and confident in the belief that you had the right of way, so you were right in not stopping for the guy who you realized was breaking the red light.

Does it help you to have a wonderful fully progressive fully left Ex-presidential candidate while the right wing neo-con is choosing judges and examining the list of executive pardons his predecessor gave to the telecoms and the real culprits?

Please you guys, start using your brains and not just your knees!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 06/27/2008
- scottarino I'm a Fan of scottarino 13 fans permalink
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Oh ....well then...it must be okay if LIONEL says so. I guess I'll not take the time to do any research myself and let LIONEL do my thinking for me. My principals will forever be tied to LIONEL on the radio. Get a clue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 06/28/2008
- Kassandra I'm a Fan of Kassandra 113 fans permalink
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"Where we see that he is consistent with the netroots is his organizing and belief in organizing,"

What I see is that he is consistent is being willing to take money from us and then, give us a kick in the pants. But, after all is said, he is a politician. I still think Rahm Emmanuel had something to do with this FISA thing.

I also know that we didn't get here in one presidency; this has been happening since Nixon. I hate to say it, but we're probably going to have to be patient and satisfied with slow change to the left.

We are so far to the right at this point that the pendulum hasn't yet begun to swing back. It chafes, but there it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 06/27/2008
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An analysis by LightMAP.org reveals that the 94 Democrats who changed their position on FISA since March are being flooded with donations from the companies who they now want to give a free pass. Shouldn’t this be illegal or something? This is on Crooks and Liars

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 06/27/2008
- Kassandra I'm a Fan of Kassandra 113 fans permalink
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Yes, it should.....let's see if they make a law. The Supreme court just said it's unconstitutional to level the "playing field"

See: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/27/MN0311FPQ8.DTL&type=politics

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 06/27/2008
- FirstShirt I'm a Fan of FirstShirt 66 fans permalink

The primaries cater to the extremists and the general caters to the middle. Get over it. He is just another politician playing the game to win. If he is successful he will be a pragmatist and not a wild eyed "change" agent. You can bet your chad on that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 06/27/2008
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What did you expect Obama is a politician there is no lower form of life on this planet then that!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 06/27/2008

I wish all these groups and factions with all their competing and contradicting demands would pause and admit one simple truth - that Barack Obama has first to win the general election and attain the seat of power before he can start implementing his policies. He will be of little use to any group if he does not win. Everyone should stop playing this selfish me, me, me game and be courageous enough to admit that to become President of the United States obliges a candidate to have to negotiate their way through a huge and multi-layered minefield and play some very weird politics in order to succeed. This is the reality of America and every single person bears some responsibility for forcing candidates to play this ridiculous game in order to win the presidency. It is oh so, so easy to criticize all the time, when you are not the one busting your ass trying to be all things to all people, which we all know is not possible. So what is all the hypocrisy about? Temper your criticisms with wisdom and allow the man to get into office. If after a period of settling down you then see him turning a corner instead of going straight, then you can criticise. In the meantime, be supportive and publicise as widely as possible his oft stated original aims, policies and objectives to increase public awareness and acceptance of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 06/27/2008
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This attitude is why the country is so messed up. No one should negotiate on really bad bills. There's no excuse for his support for the Reauth of the Patriot Act, and there's no excuse for his support of FISA. He is a corporate Democrat so the news media did story after story on the guy, until everyone was sold on him.

If people wanted a real Democrat they should have voted for Kucinich, but no one did their research.

We would be better off to get a mass movement going to support someone who is not being supported by the media: like Ralph Nader or even Bob Barr.

Obama doesn't support the fairness doctrine either. Don't you see a pattern yet?

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6573406.html?desc=topstory

We just been an incumbent in my district and it took 1000 people going door to door in each of their precincts handing out flyers. Couldn't we do something like this for a real candidate to over power the media, rather than supporting another corporate stooge?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 06/27/2008
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Obama, do not pander, especially when there is no reason for it. We are outraged by the crimes of the Bush administration which led us to realize the crimes of the Clinton administration as well as George Sr. and as well as Reagan. What were those crimes? Collusion. Look up Mena. Look up the importation of drugs by the government to be sold in black neighborhoods. Look up Iran Contra. And, look up how the hostage crisis was manipulated to keep Carter from being reelected. Obama, you have to be the progressive. You have to be the candidate of change, because if there isn't, we will turn on the democratic leadership. At this time, both parties are right of center.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 AM on 06/27/2008
- FirstShirt I'm a Fan of FirstShirt 66 fans permalink

A couple of points, westcoast. First, democratic leadership is an oxymoron. You have had the Congress and alot of good that did. Second, you govern from the center. The repubs did it and the only democrat in recent history [clinton] did it. Obama will too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 06/27/2008
- iblis I'm a Fan of iblis 2 fans permalink

Operation " Lets pretend the far left are fuming at Obama, cause Obama is a centrist", has begun to dupe the innocent American voters into voting for Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 AM on 06/27/2008
- LongTom I'm a Fan of LongTom 6 fans permalink

Boy, I hope you're right!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 06/27/2008
- eagleye I'm a Fan of eagleye 2 fans permalink

I've been waiting for the moment when the netroots discovered that Obama is not the progressive that many hoped he would be. What happened is that Obama ran a very smart, 21st century campaign that a lot of of us mistook for progressivism.

He's still a decent guy, and a great step in the right direction from where we have been for the past few decades. My best prescription for advancing the progressive agenda is to continue working to put more and better Democrats in Congress. That is where policy is churned out, and we could live with a centrist President like Obama if we can manage to improve the House and the Senate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 AM on 06/27/2008
- FirstShirt I'm a Fan of FirstShirt 66 fans permalink

Obama is a pragmatist and survivor of Chicago politics. He took down some old lions in the process and he is one smart cookie. I'm a republican and I can admit that. That said, he is considered to be one of the most liberal members of the senate. Problem is that the President can't order things into place...it takes a Congress willing to go along. The Obamaniacs will be disappointed if he gets elected. He will govern from the center.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 06/27/2008
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But with more Dems in the House and Senate the 'center' is going to move a bit to the left.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 06/27/2008
- The5thW I'm a Fan of The5thW 6 fans permalink

It's a style thing. You take all that money from the little guy and don't wait five minutes to prostrate yourself before AIPAC and Wall Street. It' like getting married on the day of your current wife's funeral. We didn't deserve one day of respect for nominating him? That's what I'm hearing here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 06/26/2008
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