Serenity Lost: Obama And The Netroots

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First Posted: 06-25-08 11:30 AM   |   Updated: 07- 3-08 05:12 AM

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Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressive netroots, the online community that helped aid the Senator's rise to the presidential nomination, but has since seemingly played second fiddle in terms of courted constituencies.

Obama's decision to embrace a compromise on FISA legislation -- a virtual slap in the face to some progressive bloggers demanding no legal immunity for telecommunications companies -- was the catalyst of the recent chatter. Other concerns arose days prior when Obama cut an advertisement on behalf of a conservative southern Democrat whose primary challenger was favored by the liberal blogosphere.

But for some progressive activists, the issue is not simply one of policy, but a concern that Obama's willingness to snub their political wishes is far more endemic.

"You can see it with FISA. He really doesn't feel that much kinship with the priorities of the netroots and I don't think he has made any secret of that," said Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake. "I have to say he is very consistent. He has gone outside the netroots for his strategy... People who feel betrayed right now, I'm not sure why, because it is extremely consistent with what they should have expected."

Indeed, there is ample evidence to suggest that Obama's standing with the netroots has not always been peachy. Prior to his victory in Iowa, he consistently trailed former Sen. John Edwards (and, on occasion, Chris Dodd) in the Daily Kos primary poll. Even before then, his (now-chilled) relationship with Sen. Joseph Lieberman as well as an essay he posted (again on Daily Kos) concerning Supreme Court nominations earned him some plaudits but also skepticism among some prominent online voices.

As a former aide to Sen. Hillary Clinton told The Huffington Post, had the New York Democrat not had her own problems with the crowd, her campaign would have been a far more natural home for the progressive netroots.

"I don't understand why a group like MoveOn backs Obama," said the aide. "Hillary is the one who will build up the Democratic infrastructure. She's the one promising to fight the ideological battles. He's the one who is talking about moving beyond partisanship. And they love him for it."

Such an argument, however, assumes that the primary goal of major online progressives and their audiences is aggressive partisanship. Some want that. But many are also cognizant of another pressing reality: the need to win. And, as such, there is a willingness to cut Obama a bit of political slack.

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"The number of people Obama's campaign has brought into the political process and the development of the netroots progressive movement has been an important convergence in this election," said Ilyse Hogue, Communications Director of Moveon.org. "But it is not an endpoint. Our goal remains to hold the ground on any issue that matters to the progressive community. [Obama's] goal is... to get elected, to be honest, but also to understand the power of who's electing him. We have reason to be optimistic about that."

Moreover, the desires of the progressive netroots and the realities of the Electoral College are not always at odds. For instance, Obama's decision to forgo public financing in the general election - while viewed sourly among good government groups - was a welcomed move among the most prominent Democratic bloggers.

Others, meanwhile, have been willing to reserve judgment regarding his position on FISA, albeit with demands that he works to defeat the compromise.

"We'll see what he does this week," said Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos. "If he's part of the capitulation or refuses to lead, then it's salient for your story. As of now, I think it's still too early to write this piece."

And, it should be noted, there will undoubtedly be future issues in which Obama and the netroots rally to the same cause (foremost, of course, being the general election). As experts of campaigns past can attest, the internal dynamics within the Senator's headquarters inevitably leave one group or another disappointed.

"There is always a tension between what the Internet department is able to put out and what all the other departments want," said Tim Tagaris, Ned Lamont's Internet Director during the 2006 Senate and an aide in similar capacity to Chris Dodd's campaign in '08. "The question is what battles do you want to fight, because it is a battle everyday. And he's not going to win it all the time because there are people on staff who have been doing this for decades and the Internet as a political tool is relative new."

But clearly, at this point in time, the honeymoon period that Obama enjoyed for the latter part of the Democratic primary and the first weeks of the general election seems to be setting. And a tug-of-war of sorts could soon emerge between progressive bloggers and the Senator, both over campaign positions as well as the affections of Democrats.

Salon.com's Glenn Greenwald offered an opening salvo by chastising Obama supporters for a willingness to rationalize their candidate's position on FISA in a way that was "unhealthy in the extreme." While at the Personal Democracy Forum, the Senator's new-media guru, Joe Rospars, was forced to dispute the premise of an assertion that his candidate was "stand-offish" with the blogs.

"Where we see that he is consistent with the netroots is his organizing and belief in organizing," explained Hogue. "Obviously there is some policy divergence which is crystallizing this week. And that's not incredibly surprising, We still have some work to do as a progressive movement to not just have candidates speak about our issues but act on our issues."

Correction: an earlier version implied that Glenn Greenwald referred to Obama supporters as "Obamabots." He did not.

Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressiv...
Only weeks into the general election campaign and already a notable tension is beginning to materialize within the Democratic Party. At question is Sen. Barack Obama's relationship with the progressiv...
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- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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Here's a way to make the telecoms pay for their complicity...

Switch your long distance and/or moblie carrier.

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 06/26/2008
- zull2 I'm a Fan of zull2 38 fans permalink
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One of the problems with the netroots is that they generally have a fairly consistent agenda, and if you take a position outside of that agenda, they jump on you like a pack of wolves. You're not allowed to disagree. Take telecom immunity, for instance. Just because telecoms get immunity DOESN'T mean they can't turn over evidence in the investigation of the President. If they were to pass a law that prevented them from being used as witnesses, that would effectively be Unconstitutional. As it is, you can't sue them for violating privacy. But suing them instead of questioning them is like going after the spy when you really want the group behind the spies. If you keep a level head about yourself, you could see that his stance on the issue does make sense, even if you don't agree with it as I do not. But the netroots have long favored a loud reaction over a thoughtful discussion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 06/26/2008
- indeevoter I'm a Fan of indeevoter 7 fans permalink

And so it begins…the quadrennial emasculation of the presidential nominee by colliding demands from the fractious coalition of ‘identity’ groups that calls itself the Democratic Party. Usually a self-appointed, always self-important, and often self-righteous “spokesperson” emerges - like Markos Moulitsas, or Tavis Smiley, or Harriet Christian, or Keith Ellison - and darkly implies grave consequences should the nominee ignore whatever their current demand happens to be. Rarely do they consider a conflicting demand, force, or situation - it is almost always just about THEIR demand, which invariably is THE-MOST-IMPORTANT issue of the moment. Rarely do they seem to accept that the nominee is running to be president of the United States - all 300+ million of us - and every justified request cannot be addressed in some specified way by some specified date.

Barack Obama would do well to ignore such demands…because once he’s perceived as caving to the demands of one group he most certainly will be expected to consent to demands from others.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 06/26/2008
- jhalvers I'm a Fan of jhalvers 7 fans permalink

Duh duh duh DUH!!! Why did you people think Obama was any different? You bought into a heavily focus-grouped, buzzword-heavy campaign that is actually pretty typical of modern politics. If people thought he was different, it was because he said so OVER and OVER again--just as he repeated his 'right on Iraq' schtick in every single damned debate. Maybe this will teach some of you to be a little less credulous in the future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 06/26/2008

Okay. This system seems to have rejected my post. Maybe it bore some baddy-baddy words. So, I shall change the possibly upsetting language and try posting again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 06/26/2008
- doglove I'm a Fan of doglove 35 fans permalink
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It's the CONSTITUTION STUPID

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 06/26/2008

2nd amendment good, 4th amendment bad

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 06/26/2008

I think the Prog Blogosphere should give the man a chance to prove himself.

He just escaped HRC's "go for blood" machine, now the Prog Bloggers are trying to put him through the wringer. Slow down, wait a minute and just watch and listen to what Barack has to say.

Cut the man some slack for a minute. Please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 06/26/2008

WHY cut him some slack...you didn't give Hillary any slack I'm sure and just imagine what your reaction to Hillary doing similar things that this fraud has been doing...

1) Ready to bomb Iran if necessary (just what Hillary said)

2) Opts out of Campaign Finance now that he has all that money

4) Kisses AIPAC ass as every wannabe President must do .

And I am sure there are a few I am missing they are pilling up so fast I can't keep track but hey you got your man.....SU­UUCCCCKKKK­EEEERRRSSS­SSS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 06/26/2008

This comment system cut off much of the last sentence of the last comment I posted. The system showed that comment's last sentence as “Mussolini was evil as Hitler despite he didn't harm” But the last sentence was “Mussolini was evil as Hitler despite he didn't harm so many so much.” Because this system's error changed the meaning of that sentence, I shall post my comment again, in a minute or two, but with a changed last sentence (fewer words). Maybe then this system will not err -- will not destroy the meaning of my comment's last sentence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 06/26/2008
- bryansmith I'm a Fan of bryansmith 16 fans permalink
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I have to say that I have been a bit disappointed by Obama. I am a long time supporter who admires his pragmatism, but also his idealism. It would seem to me that the former has superceded the later of late. I was ok with the campaign finance deal even though it was less than ideal. I'm ok with him cozying up to evangelicals.

But this FISA deal concerns me. I know he is moving to the center now (and that in fact he has always been there, despite the "most liberal" tag), but how far center is willing to go. He has won some tough fights this year on issues that were not popular for him initially. He has taken tough stances on difficult issues with possitive effect. And I know this is another tough one. BUT, I feel like he is counting on young voters to stick with him, as normal liberals likely will. But younger voters love the brand, and part of that brand is principle - the kind we don't often see. I fear that if Obama takes these voters for granted and continues to make these types of compromises for treed independents and Republicans, they will just fail to get out and vote (as in previous elections).

My appeal to you Barack Obama, is don't look the youth "gift horse in the mouth." They must be energized, or you could lose just like John Kerry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 06/26/2008
- gobarackgo I'm a Fan of gobarackgo 37 fans permalink
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You can't unify the country and move it forward if the only voters you seek to unify are hardcore Liberals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 06/26/2008

The FISA fight involves the 4th Amendment and relief from criminal activity by Bush admin and the telecoms. That's not a "liberal" fight but an American one.

But wait - look over there! Obama's making a statement on the 2nd Amendment instead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 06/26/2008
- StaggerLee I'm a Fan of StaggerLee 4 fans permalink
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Since when is upholding the Constitution and the rule of law a hardcore liberal issue?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 06/26/2008

I don't think burning the village to save it is a good idea. If the United States does not stand for and protect its constitution, what does it stand for then? What does it mean?

The issue is not liberal or conservative. The ISSUES are good government, far sighted policy and protection of the constitution. If that makes me a hardcore liberal, then heaven help the nation from those who are not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 06/26/2008

Obama Just Lost My Vote. I'm Voting Green Party Instead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 06/26/2008
- alkamm I'm a Fan of alkamm 42 fans permalink
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Yeah, vote for Ralph Nader while you're at it. He's a real purist. You might as well vote for McCain. Oh wait, you are voting for McCain! Excuse me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 06/26/2008
- GingerB I'm a Fan of GingerB 82 fans permalink
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A repug just got a new sock. And it's first post is against 0bama. Who'd have guessed?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/twasbrillignslithy

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 06/26/2008

troll

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 06/26/2008
- Dvmx I'm a Fan of Dvmx 2 fans permalink

Nader should be running for office, not for attention. He should run for the Congress. Make himself useful. Start a movement. Not just be a spoiler. Don't be suckered. In reality, Nader is a star player for the RNC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 06/26/2008

Exactly. If he really wanted to change government, why doesn't he start locally?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 06/26/2008
- Atticus I'm a Fan of Atticus 9 fans permalink
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As Obama settles into the GE campaign he is naturally becoming more pragmatic. He realizes, as most of his supporters do, that he must steer clear of the progressive movement if he wants to stand a chance to win in November. Being championed by the extreme left is a kiss of death for a politician.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 AM on 06/26/2008

So standing up for the Constitution is the extreme left

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 06/26/2008
- scubafox I'm a Fan of scubafox 2 fans permalink

"extreme left"? Ridiculous. The extreme economic right privatizes everything ... they're the Republicans now in charge. The extreme economic left says government should own and run all business ... no one says that. Liberal is the real center that knows government must, for example, run health insurance (to overcome adverse selection), but not everything. Liberal is not the "left".

Get a clue. There is no "left" left in America. Go to Political Compass and check it out. politicalc­ompass.org

And punishment of criminals (Bush & telecom companies) for violating the FISA law is NOT a "leftist" position ... it's standing for the Constitution, which Democrats, including Obama, have failed to do.

The sure way for Obama to lose is to not stand on principles and move to the center-right toward Republican extremists. Republicans stand by their distorted ideology that violates the Constitution; too bad Democrats won't stand by their principles and the Constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 06/26/2008

Progressive are not the extreme left. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive. You think he'd like Che?

Every time a Repub troll mentions extreme left, I want to put on a red bandana, throw firebombs at credit card building, distribute all the money on Wall street and kidnap bankers.

Then I'd turn to them and say - "Wouldn't supporting universal healthcare be less extreme?"

They probably think Tim McVeigh was middle of the frakkin' road.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 06/26/2008
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Defendingg the 4th amendment is not the far left. Atticus Finch would know that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 06/26/2008

Yes Obama was always using you 'progressives'. Others could see it but you were too in love. Now do you see it? He is just another politician and will do anything to win. Now he doesn't need you anymore since he won the nomination, so he is moving to the right. You got fooled again and have no one to blame but yourselves, Obama supporters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 06/26/2008
- StaggerLee I'm a Fan of StaggerLee 4 fans permalink
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I haven't heard Hillary take a stand against this new FISA abomination, so what are you talking about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 06/26/2008
- EdCoughlin I'm a Fan of EdCoughlin 10 fans permalink

Why is it always Obama or Hillary anyway. Both of them are deeply flawed and dishonest (I thought Hillary more so then Obama, but little did I know). The true patriots were forced out of the race by past missteps (Joe Biden would have been a great president if he hadn't made a plagiarism gaffe two+ decades ago) and the charlatans continued on. Chris Dodd and Joe Biden have my complete respect for taking this to the floor, Feingold too.

On a similar note, if we are going to have a first female president within the next 30 years, I nominate Barbara Boxer from California, one of the fifteen democrats ballsy enough to stand up for the Constitution. Something neither Hillary nor Barak can claim.

The perfect democratic candidate though? 2007 Obama; if only he'd rejoin the race and give us the filibuster he promised.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 06/26/2008
- Jaybot I'm a Fan of Jaybot 10 fans permalink

It was a thin hope that 'Obama The Unknown' would be somewhat better than 'Clinton The DLC Shill'. A thin hope that has been firmly quashed. If I had wanted to vote centrist, I would have done so in the primary. You're on your own now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 06/26/2008

Sorry you didn't get your perfect candidate. If you actually could find one, please, point them out to the world so we can all vote for them. Until then, you've got to make a decision on who is closer to what you want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 06/26/2008

isn't that just reality?

meaning if you want a candidate who held the exact same position as you do on every issue, you would have to be your own candidate Jaybot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 06/26/2008
- EdCoughlin I'm a Fan of EdCoughlin 10 fans permalink

I did have a perfect candidate, it was Obama in 2007, unfortunately that Obama has long since left the race just as 2000 McCain has. Magically the two outsider mavericks both turned into below average shills as soon as they hit the general. 2007 Obama claims he will stand up for the Constitution and the rights of Americans, even filibuster any attempt to strip those rights and immunize the telecoms. In 2008 where is 2007 Obama? Nowhere to be seen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 PM on 06/26/2008
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