Supreme Court Upholds Right To Own Guns For Self-Defense

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MARK SHERMAN | June 26, 2008 11:13 PM EST | AP

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Jeff Gildersleeve adjusts the sight on a Glock Model 27 .40-caliber handgun at B & J Guns in Colonie, N.Y., Thursday, June 26, 2008. The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a constitutional right to keep guns in their homes for self-defense, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun control in U.S. history. (AP Photo/Mike Groll)

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home and addressing a constitutional riddle almost as old as the republic over what it means to say the people may keep and bear arms.

The court's 5-4 ruling struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns and imperiled similar prohibitions in other cities, Chicago and San Francisco among them. Federal gun restrictions, however, were expected to remain largely intact.

The court's historic awakening on the meaning of the Second Amendment brought a curiously mixed response, muted in some unexpected places.

The reaction broke less along party lines than along the divide between cities wracked with gun violence and rural areas where gun ownership is embedded in daily life. Democrats have all but abandoned their long push for stricter gun laws at the national level after deciding it's a losing issue for them. Republicans welcomed what they called a powerful precedent.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, straddling both sides of the issue, said merely that the court did not find an unfettered right to bear arms and that the ruling "will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country." But another Chicagoan, Democratic Mayor Richard Daley, called the ruling "very frightening" and predicted more violence and higher taxes to pay for extra police if his city's gun restrictions are lost.

Republican presidential candidate John McCain welcomed the ruling as "a landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom."

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791. The amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The basic issue for the justices was whether the amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia, a once-vital, now-archaic grouping of citizens. That's been the heart of the gun control debate for decades.

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Writing for the majority, Justice Antonin Scalia said an individual right to bear arms exists and is supported by "the historical narrative" both before and after the Second Amendment was adopted.

President Bush said: "I applaud the Supreme Court's historic decision today confirming what has always been clear in the Constitution: the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear firearms."

The full implications of the decision, however, are not sorted out. Still to be seen, for example, is the extent to which the right to have a gun for protection in the home may extend outside the home.

Scalia said the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home." The court also struck down D.C. requirements that firearms be equipped with trigger locks or kept disassembled, but left intact the licensing of guns. The district allows shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

Scalia noted that the handgun is Americans' preferred weapon of self-defense in part because "it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police."

But he said nothing in the ruling should "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

In a concluding paragraph to the 64-page opinion, Scalia said the justices in the majority "are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country" and believe the Constitution "leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that problem, including some measures regulating handguns."

D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty responded with a plan to require residents to register their handguns. "More handguns in the District of Columbia will only lead to more handgun violence," Fenty said.

In a dissent he summarized from the bench, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

He said such evidence "is nowhere to be found."

Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a separate dissent in which he said, "In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas."

Joining Scalia were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. The other dissenters were Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

Gun rights advocates praised the decision. "I consider this the opening salvo in a step-by-step process of providing relief for law-abiding Americans everywhere that have been deprived of this freedom," said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association.

The NRA will file lawsuits in San Francisco, Chicago and several Chicago suburbs challenging handgun restrictions there based on Thursday's outcome.

Some Democrats also welcomed the ruling.

"This opinion should usher in a new era in which the constitutionality of government regulations of firearms are reviewed against the backdrop of this important right," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

The capital's gun law was among the nation's strictest.

Dick Anthony Heller, 66, an armed security guard, sued the district after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his Capitol Hill home a short distance from the Supreme Court.

"I'm thrilled I am now able to defend myself and my household in my home," Heller said shortly after the opinion was announced.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled in Heller's favor and struck down the district's handgun ban, saying the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own guns and a total prohibition on handguns is not compatible with that right.

The issue caused a split within the Bush administration. Vice President Dick Cheney supported the appeals court ruling, but others in the administration feared it could lead to the undoing of other gun regulations, including a federal law restricting sales of machine guns. Other laws keep felons from buying guns and provide for an instant background check.

The last Supreme Court ruling on the matter came in 1939 in U.S. v. Miller, which involved a sawed-off shotgun. Constitutional scholars agree it did not squarely answer the question of individual versus collective rights.

The case is District of Columbia v. Heller, 07-290.

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
Filed by Katharine Zaleski
 
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- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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Wow! This thread is still going. Awesome. :)

I am a left-leaning (libertari­an-sociali­st) who advocates keeping our gun rights in tact. It is not out of "fear" or "rabid strict construction" of the Constitution. It is logic. I wish I could be so idealistic as to think that a total ban on guns, or even just handguns, would make us more "safe". Just as I would like to believe that making drugs illegal will keep kids clean. But this is not reality. That is a pipe dream (pun totally intended).

We need to focus on WHY people commit crime. They will always find a HOW no matter what laws are in place.

I'm for some regulation, like safety locks for instance. Banning guns will do little in overall violent crime. It will merely push gun sales to a dangerously unregulated underground or the potential offender will choose a different kind of weapon. We can look at drug laws the same way. The only way we can gain a footing on violence is *education* and *equality of opportunity* for communities that are disaffected.

We need to focus our money, laws, and energy on improving the lives of those more apt to commit violence: impoverished, disenchanted, and ignored communities. We need to improve education and attract strong role models to these communities.

Outlawing handguns seems like a quick and easy fix, but it just muddles the root cause.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 06/27/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1600 fans permalink
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You seem to be relying too much on "belief" and ignoring hard data available in other countries that have lowered gun violence by stricter gun control. Look up gun violence rates in Western Europe and in Australia, where they changed gun laws not too long ago.

It didn't work as well in DC mainly because guns came in from neighboring states. One needs uniformity of laws across the country to have an effect.

There are poor and disenchanted in other countries, but not as much gun violence. It might be that our culture is more violent. But that is more of a reason to have stricter gun laws here than in countries like Canada, where the culture seems less violent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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Yes, but Hume, can't we agree that there are too many variables from these countries that would throw off a true comparison?

The second sentence of your last paragraph is spot on. Violence and the culture that fosters violence is the problem.

Banning guns shouldn't be the "first step" in eradicating violent crime because there will always be a black market in a nation that does nothing to solve the root cause.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 06/27/2008

Gun violence is one thing. How about Violent Crimes? That rate went Up

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 06/27/2008

Not much argument here but you could have added one other thing. Our country has turned into greed monsters where a lot of people will do anything to get piles of money. A lot of people convicted of drug offenses either have regular jobs or did have but the lure of diamonds and, yachts and lamborghinis is where they are now. I remember watching miami vice when it first came out and thought that glamorizing this is not good. We are reaping some of the results of unregulated capitalism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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Absolutely. That is a profound observation that not too many people like to admit. Free markets are good-- but if left unchecked we get ridiculous displays of greed and then the impending jealousy from those who believe money is the source of power and happiness.

We need to shift the paradigm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 06/27/2008
- pmag88 I'm a Fan of pmag88 12 fans permalink

I remember doing a web search a few years ago trying to find out in what years the greatest number of homicides per capita had occurred. As I recall, the worst years were 1910 (when the per capita murder rate seemed directly correlated to the number of people walking around wearing iron) 1979 (when a lot of suicide/homicides, supposedly related to Vietnam Vets and others finding out that their jobs were being outsourced and the bulk of the steel industry in the US was shutting down, occurred) and 1991 (when drug related gang violence seems to have reached a peak) In regards to the suicide/homicides occurring in 1979, these seem to have been a regional epidemic that started around 1979 and continued into the mid 1980s, and as II recall the local news media in these steel producing regions made mention of it, but it didn’t get much national attention.

I haven’t been able to dig up this information again but I’m sure that with the Meth epidemic, a bad economy and a crackdown on hardcore drug dealers (here and south of the border) we are probably going to see an increase in violence yet again.

As to whether a well armed populace will be any help to themselves or the police in regards to protecting against it, or tamping it down, I have a feeling we’re about to find out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 06/27/2008
- Cromwell I'm a Fan of Cromwell 2 fans permalink

In the United States gun crime is rampant, even in states that have strict gun control, yet if the constitution states that there is a right to possess a gun, then you cannot disbar one piece of the constitution just because you do not agree with that portion.

The Constitution is or it is not, but what it cannot be, is just in part, as and when needed by an agenda, else rum dictators might take it upon themselves to ignore parts of it at will.

In the UK, guns are strictly regulated and controlled yet there is a rise in gun crime with unlicensed guns, in percentages that go off the scale, showing that the gun is not the problem, rather the user and intent.

In France it is also every citizens right to possess a gun, yet there is little gun crime, perhaps a dozen illegal shootings per year.

Before being allowed a gun permit, I was assessed by the police, local hunt and then went to school for a proscribed written and practical examination to show that I am a capable person.

This can take up to a year, a long time in our instant gratification society, yet over 50% of registered households in France have a gun permit.

Ammunition can only be brought from a registered armourer and a written record of every round spent must be recorded and kept.

This long-winded system works as the lack of gun crime figures show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 06/27/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1600 fans permalink
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I think it is silly to treat the Constitution as Bible, the word God. It should be adjusted and changed to be compatible with societal, technological and other changes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 06/27/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 16 fans permalink

Right... even the writers of the Constitution went out of their way to specify that there are only 3 rights that can NEVER be taken: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's what it means when they are called 'inalienab­le.' All other rights are alienable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 06/27/2008
- billu I'm a Fan of billu 2 fans permalink

And that's why the framers included a method to AMEND (change) the constitution. It is importaint enough that it requires the input of all the people and never on a whim.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 07/02/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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'71-'75 Murder rates/100,000 - 2001-2006 Murder rates/100,000

DC
92-38

Detroit
44-42

Flint
25-33

St. Louis
48-40

Cincinnati
11-22

Phil
24-24

And there ya have it. For anyone else who wants to yap "It doesn't work anyway"... there are the numbers.

Where since the gun ban, DC's murder rate has been cut by more than half, the other socioeconomic similar GMA's have increased, or stayed virtually the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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"Before the District banned handguns in 1976, the murder rate had been declining. But soon afterward, the rate climbed to the highest of all large U.S. cities. It also rose relative to nearby Maryland and Virginia as well as relative to other cities with more than 500,000 people. During the 31-year life of the ban, with the exception of a few years during which the city's murder rate ranked second or third, there have been more killings per capita in Washington, D.C. than in any other major city.

In 12 of the years between 1980 and 1997, including all nine years from 1989 through 1997, the violent crime rate in D.C. exceeded 2,000 per 100,000, reaching a high of 2,922 in 1993, versus 1,481 in 1976 — a 97 percent increase in violent crime, 17 years after citizens were forbidden from defending themselves with firearms. Moreover, the murder rate climbed as high as 81 per 100,000 inhabitants in 1991 — triple the pre-ban levels. As of 2005, the last year for which I have data, the murder rate is still 32 percent above the 1976 level.

Two non-partisan government agencies recently examined gun controls and found no statistically significant evidence to support their effectiveness. In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. The researchers could not identify a single gun-control regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide, or accidents.­."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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In short... BULL

Here are the numbers:

1972 - 1,685/100,000 violent crimes - 32.8 murders per
1973 - 1558/100,000 violent crimes - 35.9 murders per
1974 - 1,603/100,000 violent crimes - 38.3 murders per
1975 - 1,774/100,000 violent crimes - 32.8 murders per

This is a freakin decline?

1976 - 1,481/100,000 violent crimes - 26 murders per

This is the climb soon afterward?

Wow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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"A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on an independent evaluation of firearms and ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention laws, and zero tolerance laws. Conclusion: none of the laws had a meaningful impact on gun violence.

Based on those statistics, there's a compelling argument that Americans deserve an opportunity to defend themselves by possessing suitable firearms. But even if the data were to cut the other way — even if it could be demonstrated (which it emphatically cannot) that more gun laws lead to less crime — gun laws are not just about public policy. They're about the meaning of the Constitution. Hopefully, the U.S. Supreme Court, at long last, will answer this vital question: Does the right to keep and bear arms belong to us as individuals, or does the Constitution merely recognize the collective right of states to arm the members of their militias?"

http://www.law.com/jsp/dc/index.jsp

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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(these posts are from Legal Times and Cato Institute)

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8717

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 06/27/2008
- benEzra I'm a Fan of benEzra 17 fans permalink

And gun crime has declined in the rest of the nation, that did NOT ban guns, similar to the D.C. decline.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/relgun.png

Also, by cherry-picking the dates 1971-1975, you get to exclude the sharp increases in crime that occurred after the D.C. ban was implemented in '76.

You are arguing a fallacy, though. The people whom the D.C. ban prevented from owning guns---those who care enough about the law to obey it---aren't the ones who are committing most homicides.

In Chicago, so far this year, 97 percent of murders, and 70 percent of victims, have prior arrest records. The gun-control lobby would like you to believe that most gun murders are committed by lawful gun owners who go bad, but that is not the case.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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You can argue what gun-control lobbyists might argue until they and you are blue in the face. The reality is that since the gun-ban, violent crimes decreased, where in it's mirror GMA's, they have increased.

Those are the real numbers. You can read what you want into them, but they don't change because you submit how some with agendas might want to interpret them.

It is unquestionably the clearest picture that there is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 06/27/2008

How about Violent Crime Rates?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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1971-1975 violent crime rate averages per 100,000 for DC and mirror socioeconomic GMA's-

DC - 1,926
Detroit - 1,900
Flint, MI - 1,700
St. Louis - 2,400
Cincinnati - 900
Philadelphia - 900

Average for the past 5 years

DC - 1,500
Detroit - 2,200
Flint - 1,800
St. Louis - 2,400
Cincinatti - 1,200
Philadelphia - 1,400

Percentage of increase or decline from 5 years previous to gun ban to 5 most recent years:

DC - 18% decline
Detroit - 15% increase
Flint - 7% increase
St. Louis - unchanged
Cincinatti - 5% increase
Philadelphia - 25% increase

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 06/27/2008
- Tator I'm a Fan of Tator 9 fans permalink

I find it hysterical all you Liberals are forecasting anarchy because law abiding citizens will be allowed to have guns. What is so hilarious is all you claims of shoot-outs and high gun deaths rates have already been proven incorrect and ludicrous. Look no further than to the country folks, you know the ones you characterize as hicks, hillbillies, rednecks, Neanderthals. We all have guns. We have had them all our lives.

Now moonbats look at the gun data over at the DoJ and every single prediction you forecast based on more guns=more gun deaths is incorrect and just the opposite more guns=less gun deaths. Why you refuse to look at the simple direct data is a picture into your souls and exposes your personal fears of insufficiency.

First why does more guns=less gun deaths. Here is a test next time you moonbats come out into the country and commune with nature, ask anyone on the street, “If I decided to break into a home as a criminal (pick a house and point to it) what is going to stop me”? The hick will smile and say something along the lines of, “Well, you will most likely be shot dead.”

That is why we have virtually no crime in the country. Criminals know that have a target rich environment of unarmed girlie men in the cities and the odds anyone will stop them are almost nil.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 06/27/2008

Every day, it seems, we are eating more of the poisonous fruit growing out of George Bush's Presidency. Yesterday’s Supreme Court decision, another in a long line of disastrous decisions by the Roberts "conservat­ive-stacke­d" Court, endorsed a “personal right to own guns,” and overturned precedent of seventy years. What happened to Roberts' and Alito’s confirmation hearing promises that they would honor precedent? WHO are the activist judges?

As a bereaved mother, author, and blogger on “grief, life, and everything in between,” I feel compelled to mention that the effect of this ruling will be more guns, more death, and more grief. More mothers and fathers will suffer over the unnecessary deaths of their children. More sisters will grieve over brothers, brothers over sisters. More grandmothers and grandfathers will weep. Perhaps the honorable Justices who think there should be MORE guns in this society and not fewer guns, will fund grief counseling for the victims of a decision that defies reason and common sense. Oh, I forgot, Congress provides funds.

The precedent was the 1939 decision in United States v. Miller and decades in which a majority of courts regarded the Miller decision as having rejected the individual-right interpretation of the Second Amendment, and to Justice Antonin Scalia parsing, semantic argument about the “prefatory statement” and the “operative clause” of the Second Amendment, I take a word from the teenagers: “Whatever.­”

The effect will be more guns, more death, more grief.

Read full post at www.frandorf.com.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 06/27/2008
- charlot I'm a Fan of charlot 28 fans permalink
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I'm going to buy a flame-thrower, and keep it permanently aimed out the front window of my house. I'll use it to blast anyone who approaches, because they're probably all terrorists who hate me for my freedoms and are just itching to kill my family. Or worse, they're liberals who want to turn me gay and take away my bible. God bless America, and pass the ammo!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 06/27/2008
- Mike169 I'm a Fan of Mike169 46 fans permalink
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This should please all conservatives who have fought for years for the right of local autonomy. Of course this Supreme Court will twist and turn trying to justify the mess they just made.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 06/27/2008
- hoopesaz I'm a Fan of hoopesaz 23 fans permalink

I've wondered this too. How does this play in with State's Rights? I've reasoned that at some point there is a pecking order in the rights provided by the constitution. Meaning, we are guaranteed religious freedom, period. A state, even by popular vote, cannot take that freedom away.

This one seems to be on the edge for me. I believe folks do have the right to own guns. I also believe the state has the rights to regulate and administer the ownership of guns within reason. The question for me is, was the DC ban unreasonable? I'm just not sure. It seems there should have been some exception for those who are required to use guns in their line of work. I thought this case was the result of a security officer who had to use a hand gun. Could be wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 06/27/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 18 fans permalink

If you look at it states and the fed do regulate religion just ask the Mormons, Rastafarians, and Native Americans.

I to am one the fence about this on the one hand I am all for the right to bear arms, but on the other there are good reasons for bans and restrictions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 06/27/2008

Hi All,

1st . . . a big shout out to all the conservatives who have stepped up and contributed to this discussion (had the impression the blog would continue the one-sided discussion format . . . but have been pleased)

2nd . . . Excellent legal commentary from all . . very informative

3rd . . . for those who still want to take guns away from the rest of us . . . keep trying . . . it keeps the world interesting.

4th . . . Did get a big chuckle when I brought my rifle with me, on a visit up to NJ . . . you would have thought I had a nuclear weapon in the truck . . . all my friends urged me to leave the state immediately . . . but, most likely they didn't want to be seen with a Texan . . .might mess up their social circle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 06/27/2008
- Mike169 I'm a Fan of Mike169 46 fans permalink
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18% of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth. Over 30% believe that the earth is only 6,000 yrs old. At the beginning of the Bush Administration only 2% believed that sun rotated around the earth and 21% believed that the earth was only 6,000 years old. The US has moved to the top of the stupidest industrialized nation followed by Khazhakstan. We're lucky if we don't accidentally shoot ourselves in the head.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 06/27/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

Not since the Roger B. Taney SCOTUS and his infamous Dred Scott decision have we had such a fascist court with one member holding the line against complete strict construction and "literal interpretation" of both Bible and Constitution, or blurring the differences between them.

All sensible moderate and liberal Republicans and Independents must join all Democrats in assuring the reality that no Rethuglican can replace another justice on this Court. Remember that to the theocon or secular neocon, any pronouncement from the co-equal Judicial Branch whereby the rights of the minority are protected from the tyranny of the majority is called " judicial activism."

The Fourth Amendment, like many who contextually read scriptures, is something that the Fascist Justices glean over while adjudicating for the most egregious definition of the Second Amendment since the nuclear age began, let alone the Republic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 06/27/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

Of course, Dred Scott was the tip of the iceberg...­.the one melting along with the Polar Ice Cap....for on its heals came Plessy v Ferguson and the Jim Crow laws.

I do not expect Barack Obama to agree with me on all counts....­he does not....and falls short of many views in my understand­ing....yet­....when I think that John McCain and the Global Corporatist Thurgs having another four year free ride over treasure and freedoms..­..I want to vote for myself and everyone in the cemetery to offset the electronic theft they will engage in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 06/27/2008
- Mike169 I'm a Fan of Mike169 46 fans permalink
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All sensible moderate and liberal Republicans and Independents
If you find one let me know!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 06/27/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

crozier-bloviate much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 PM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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Again... same reaction from someone who can't argue a point.

Your lack of defensive knowledge in actually making any counterpoints becomes amusing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 06/27/2008
- hoopesaz I'm a Fan of hoopesaz 23 fans permalink

Fascist refers to many things, including the general belief that individual rights are subordinate to the rights of the state. In this case, individuals wanted guns. That state didn't want individuals to have guns. The court ruled that the individual rights trump those of the state.

Nothing fascist about it. It's only fascist (as a pejorative term) in that it is a view that you disagree with. This is the new liberal huffpo buzzword. Seems that only 1 out of a 100 or so actually know what they are saying when they use it.

There is more language in the 2nd amendment to justify the ruling of the court yesterday than there is language in the constitution to support Roe V Wade. I'm not suggesting R V Wade should be repealed, but it is true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 06/27/2008
- Mike4Obama I'm a Fan of Mike4Obama 38 fans permalink
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Surprisingly enough, George Will, the iconic conservative columnist of the Washington Post, finds promise for Obama from this ruling. At the same time, he takes aim at the only issue that keeps conservatives tied to McCain, that being Supreme Court nominees.

Take heed.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/court_helps_obama_embarrasses.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 06/27/2008
- Chris I'm a Fan of Chris 11 fans permalink

Can anyone find a stat that breaks out gun related crimes with legally obtained weapons and illegally obtianed weapons?

My initial thought is that the majority of of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained weapons. If this is true than all the gun control in the world will not change that fact.

I am a conservative that supports gun control but not bans which the District seem to do. If the cistrict wanted to pass a law that residents could not carry on the streets fine but the ban in the home is over reaching.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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Here's the issue with the ruling. This is the first time that the SC has actually ruled that the Second Amendment actually refers to individuals. The case wasn't as much about a challenge to the DC ruling, but as an interpretation to the Second Amendment itself.

That opens up a couple of new problems where the Amendment can again be challenged for interpretation as it relates to an "individual's" right to "keep and bear arms".

"keep and bear" can be interepreted well beyond the home. In fact, most would argue that "keep" would imply home possession, while "bear" would imply the right to carry. This is a legitimate legal argument that's sure to be introduced soon.

"arms" is undefined. There will surely be a challenge that because the Second Amendment gives no specifics on what "arms" are, opening up a possibility of a "type, quantity, and size" challenge.

Lastly, as I noted below - with the Second Amendment applying definitively now as a right for individuals, it would have to be treated as other individual rights within the Constitution (right to an attorney, right to privacy, right to free speech, religion, etc.). Because this now becomes an individual and Constitutional right , then there is opening for a challenge that no providing the less fortunate with arms would be an infringement of those individual rights based on discrimination (financial).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 AM on 06/27/2008
- benEzra I'm a Fan of benEzra 17 fans permalink

In Chicago so far this year, 97 percent of murderers, and 70 percent of victims, had prior arrest records. Most of those murderers would not be able to legally buy a gun.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/March08CrimeStats.pdf

Generally speaking, those of us who are law-abiding, mentally competent adults with clean records are NOT the problem, and fighting to take guns from *us* is a red herring.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 06/27/2008

Justice Stevens: "In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas."

While I am on the opposite side from the NRA, I must admit that I have a problem with prohibiting a family forced by economics to live in a crime-ridden area from having a loaded handgun in the home. But I would favor a law requiring the loaded handgun to be locked up if there are children there. While it takes a little time to unlock the gun case, it would normally take much more time to load a gun, particularly if having to do so under great stress.

While the decision, as far as I know, deals only with handguns, I would think its thesis would also apply to rifles. I don't think the government should be able to prohibit a farmer from having a rifle in his home. Since the farmer is not keeping the rifle as a member of a militia, he is keeping it on the basis that he as an individual has a right to keep the rifle. The broad claim that there is no individual right seems to me too broad.

To me, the question is not whether there is an individual right but is the extent to which that right can be regulated, and I would favor strong regulation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 06/27/2008
- Superbus I'm a Fan of Superbus 27 fans permalink
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The Second Amendment protects your God given right to self defense. I simply do not understand the reasoning of Justice Stevens, who seems to be denying that individual right of self defense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 06/27/2008
- steamboat I'm a Fan of steamboat 44 fans permalink

Isn't it amazing that cities that have very high shooting and murder rates are the cities that HAVE the strictest gun-ban laws? Something none of these folks here want to admit. And remember, you and I don't have ARMED body-guards protecting us like all these folks pushing to eliminate guns like Mayor Daley, Mayor Bloomberg, the DC Mayor, Jesse Jackson, and elitist entertainers like Rosie O'Donnell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 06/27/2008
- KPinSEA I'm a Fan of KPinSEA 11 fans permalink

And this Court seems to have come down 9-0 on the issue of whether local governments can have strong regulation of firearms ownership and licensing. Yes, they can. What they can't do is enforce a 100% prohibition on handguns.

From that standpoint, this ruling is a victory for gun control advocates and a loss for the NRA. I know it doesn't feel that way to supporters of Prohibition today, but this really was a win in many ways, folks.

I'm with you grandpaw on the unloaded requirement being problematic -- and unenforceable, of course. If I'm going to have to take the time to load a weapon in a hurry in the dark, I might as well just use the gun as a club, or switch to the softball bat kept next to the bed. Or ... do I have to keep that softball bat locked up too? You could hurt somebody with one of those things.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 06/27/2008
- condew I'm a Fan of condew 9 fans permalink

The trap for Democrats is set. Next will be a long line of gun control advocates cornering Obama to ask if he supports gun control. If he answers yes, all his efforts to woo rural voters will be canceled with a single word. If he answers no, the anti-gun wing of the Democratic party will stay home.

This ruling is no more an accident than the recent ruling in California to allow gay marriage. That's 2 of the 3 "God, Guns, and Gays" that turns out the conservative base.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 06/27/2008
- charlot I'm a Fan of charlot 28 fans permalink
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How scary is that, that of all the really important issues that need immediate attention in this country, the people who get to decide who the president will be (the Midwest and the South) focus entirely on how much the candidate loves guns, hates gays, and wants to turn every living soul into his own version of a "Christian­." If I could afford the gas to get up to Canada, I think I just might move there. Moving back into the Dark Ages isn't working so well for me here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 06/27/2008
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