Supreme Court Upholds Right To Own Guns For Self-Defense

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MARK SHERMAN | June 26, 2008 11:13 PM EST | AP

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Jeff Gildersleeve adjusts the sight on a Glock Model 27 .40-caliber handgun at B & J Guns in Colonie, N.Y., Thursday, June 26, 2008. The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a constitutional right to keep guns in their homes for self-defense, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun control in U.S. history. (AP Photo/Mike Groll)

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home and addressing a constitutional riddle almost as old as the republic over what it means to say the people may keep and bear arms.

The court's 5-4 ruling struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns and imperiled similar prohibitions in other cities, Chicago and San Francisco among them. Federal gun restrictions, however, were expected to remain largely intact.

The court's historic awakening on the meaning of the Second Amendment brought a curiously mixed response, muted in some unexpected places.

The reaction broke less along party lines than along the divide between cities wracked with gun violence and rural areas where gun ownership is embedded in daily life. Democrats have all but abandoned their long push for stricter gun laws at the national level after deciding it's a losing issue for them. Republicans welcomed what they called a powerful precedent.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, straddling both sides of the issue, said merely that the court did not find an unfettered right to bear arms and that the ruling "will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country." But another Chicagoan, Democratic Mayor Richard Daley, called the ruling "very frightening" and predicted more violence and higher taxes to pay for extra police if his city's gun restrictions are lost.

Republican presidential candidate John McCain welcomed the ruling as "a landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom."

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791. The amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The basic issue for the justices was whether the amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia, a once-vital, now-archaic grouping of citizens. That's been the heart of the gun control debate for decades.

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Writing for the majority, Justice Antonin Scalia said an individual right to bear arms exists and is supported by "the historical narrative" both before and after the Second Amendment was adopted.

President Bush said: "I applaud the Supreme Court's historic decision today confirming what has always been clear in the Constitution: the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear firearms."

The full implications of the decision, however, are not sorted out. Still to be seen, for example, is the extent to which the right to have a gun for protection in the home may extend outside the home.

Scalia said the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home." The court also struck down D.C. requirements that firearms be equipped with trigger locks or kept disassembled, but left intact the licensing of guns. The district allows shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

Scalia noted that the handgun is Americans' preferred weapon of self-defense in part because "it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police."

But he said nothing in the ruling should "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

In a concluding paragraph to the 64-page opinion, Scalia said the justices in the majority "are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country" and believe the Constitution "leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that problem, including some measures regulating handguns."

D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty responded with a plan to require residents to register their handguns. "More handguns in the District of Columbia will only lead to more handgun violence," Fenty said.

In a dissent he summarized from the bench, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

He said such evidence "is nowhere to be found."

Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a separate dissent in which he said, "In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas."

Joining Scalia were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. The other dissenters were Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

Gun rights advocates praised the decision. "I consider this the opening salvo in a step-by-step process of providing relief for law-abiding Americans everywhere that have been deprived of this freedom," said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association.

The NRA will file lawsuits in San Francisco, Chicago and several Chicago suburbs challenging handgun restrictions there based on Thursday's outcome.

Some Democrats also welcomed the ruling.

"This opinion should usher in a new era in which the constitutionality of government regulations of firearms are reviewed against the backdrop of this important right," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

The capital's gun law was among the nation's strictest.

Dick Anthony Heller, 66, an armed security guard, sued the district after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his Capitol Hill home a short distance from the Supreme Court.

"I'm thrilled I am now able to defend myself and my household in my home," Heller said shortly after the opinion was announced.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled in Heller's favor and struck down the district's handgun ban, saying the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own guns and a total prohibition on handguns is not compatible with that right.

The issue caused a split within the Bush administration. Vice President Dick Cheney supported the appeals court ruling, but others in the administration feared it could lead to the undoing of other gun regulations, including a federal law restricting sales of machine guns. Other laws keep felons from buying guns and provide for an instant background check.

The last Supreme Court ruling on the matter came in 1939 in U.S. v. Miller, which involved a sawed-off shotgun. Constitutional scholars agree it did not squarely answer the question of individual versus collective rights.

The case is District of Columbia v. Heller, 07-290.

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
Filed by Katharine Zaleski
 
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- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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...and if we're going to read this as some want - it opens up another major problem; As the "right" to free speech, the "right" to an attorney, the "right" to freedom of religion.... none are interpreted as privileges, but rights.

What does that mean? The "right to keep and bear arms" becomes a right that cannot be infringed. To not supply arms to those who cannot afford them would be financial discrimination.

This ruling now opens a legitimate challenge that we must provide guns to those in inner-cities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 06/27/2008
- KBAR I'm a Fan of KBAR 28 fans permalink
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Are you rally that daffy?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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Please explain, from a legal standpoint, how one can argue that some uninfringable rights, as written, can be taken away, and some cannot.

There is no legal distinction between a "right to an attorney", a "right to free speech", and a "right to keep and bear arms".

Explain how we would then be allowed, if challenged, to argue that only some uninfringable right can be infringed.

Go nuts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 06/27/2008
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"SUPREME COURT RULES 5-4 IN FAVOR OF GUNS" ...but against people.

Scalia: the most intellectually dishonest person ever to don a robe as a SC justice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 06/27/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

"SUPREME COURT RULES 5-4 IN FAVOR OF CONSTITUTION"...but against tyranny...marxist idelogogues soil diapers

JPSatire: the mst intellectually challenged leftist ever to denigrate the constitution

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 06/27/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

Scalia is a fascist, period, end of story....Roberts and Alito are Scalia with some class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 06/27/2008
- FirstShirt I'm a Fan of FirstShirt 65 fans permalink

Well, I guess this bodes ill for those who enjoyed their attacks on the innocent law abiding citizens who are just trying to get through the day without being mugged.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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As Mike Myers said:

Americans have the right to bear arms. The rest of the free world has the right to walk the streets without getting shot in the head by some a$$hole with the right to bear arms.

The 2nd Amendment was twisted for this ruling, portions were discarded, and it opens a Pandora's Box for future challenges to the text, including the definitions of "keep and bear" (ie; armed at home AND on body", as well as the definition of "arms".

It's unbelievable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 AM on 06/27/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

dentuso...bloviate much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 06/27/2008
- hoopesaz I'm a Fan of hoopesaz 23 fans permalink

The law as interpreted by the court still leaves plenty of room for reasonable restrictions on gun ownership. I really don't understand how folks on this board can take the position they do with respect to the 2nd amendment. Could the justices be wrong about the intentions of the founders? It's possible. But it isn't a stretch at all to read it the way that it has been decided. The right of the people to bear arms. The words are right there.

Contrast that with the right to privacy and it's use to defend abortion rights. While I disagree with abortion, I do agree that I woman should have the right to chose as a practical matter. But, it is a stretch to assume that the framers of the constitution meant to protect abortion rights.

Unlike the ruling on gun rights, the liberal left will allow NO REASONABLE restrictions on abortion rights without feeling those rights have been infringed. Feel lucky that the court didn't the same position on gun rights and simply say there are NO restrictions that could be placed on gun ownership.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 06/27/2008
- torrrep I'm a Fan of torrrep 12 fans permalink

Guess what? That right was revoked in D.C. And people were STILL getting shot in the head. So what does THAT tell you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 06/27/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

mike myers, constitutional scholar?

can we get mini-me's position on the matter?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 06/28/2008

It seems the majority of the posters here did not read the opinion and are getting their information from NPR sound bites.
- the ruling applies to only the fed and DC in particular. The fight to incorporate this to the states is a separate issue as it should be.
- the ruling was based upon solid evidence that the founders saw the 2nd for self defense, including militia service and not the other way around. This is pretty obvious is you read English common law and other state constitutions.
- one of the dissenters arguments was that this would cause lots of litigation and that would be bad. It is a hollow argument to acknowledge that many laws are unconstitutional so the courts would be burdened with fixing bad laws so let’s just keep the laws as is so we don’t have to rewrite bad laws. That line of logic was unacceptable in the past with women’s suffrage and civil rights. It is unacceptable for gay rights. It is also unacceptable for gun rights. Keeping bad law so you don’t have to fix has always been unacceptable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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Amen. See post below. No consideration for context, modernity, or the fact that the Forefathers made special note in the Constitution that the laws as written were subject to be amended as required through relevancy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:51 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Reading this as "everybody gets a gun" would be akin to having an Amendment on Trade (as there were taxes applied to cargo movement by Britain) that reads

"A well regulated body of Shipping, being necessary to ensure the profitability of the State, the right of the people to keep and operate vessels, shall not be restricted" to mean -

"Everybody has the right to a 600 hp Bugatti EB-300, and you can do whatever speed you want on any highway"

It's absolute nonsense to interpret the amendment without any consideration for modernity or context.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 06/27/2008

I'm a libertarian/progressive and I believe the court made the right decision. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and the maintenance of that right is essential to a secure, free state. That does not mean that certain types of guns such as automatic machine guns, and handguns if need be, may not be controlled. I believe handgun violence is a scourge, and that they should be controlled. Not banned, but regulated, such as with the training and licensing of concealed-carry owners.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:35 AM on 06/27/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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It is good to read a post from someone who isn't radical one way or the other.

I'm not going to pick apart the wording of the Constitution and pretend that I have legal insight far better than that of the Supreme Court (as much as I dislike Scalia and would love to refute anything on which he agrees). This decision presents an opportunity to bring violent crime into the fore and allow us to maintain civil discourse on the matter. What is the problem? Is it the gun, or is it the person behind the gun? If it's the gun, then we are saying that otherwise non-violent individuals will turn violent if guns are accessible. If it is the person, then we are saying that we need to understand the root cause of the violence and try to eradicate that as much as possible.

I think, with few exceptions, the case is clear that there are socio-economic reasons why people fall into a life of crime. There are things that we, as a society, can do to foster a national community dedicated to non-violence. Banning guns would only have an effect if the desire to obtain one was eliminated. That isn't going to happen anytime soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 06/27/2008

Whatever happened to all those strict interpreters of the Constitution? Does not the Second Amendment state, " A WELL- REGULATED MILITIA BEING NECESSARY FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? It seems the right of the people to keep and bear arms refers back to the people in a well-regulated militia having that right. Put in historical perspective, militias were a collection of individuals who banded together, back then, each owning his own weapon for protection of the common good. Protection against Indians and providing food. In today's society there is little need for protection against Indians and few today get all their sustenance from shooting animals. Ask any gun owner who says he needs his gun to protect his home and hearth and those dear to him how many times he needed a gun to protect his family? Weigh that against the number of accidental killings by loved ones against loved ones in homes with a weapon available.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 AM on 06/27/2008

Do you not see the comma in the sentence? Perhaps you should learn the use of commas, if you did you would realize that they are referring to two separate entities. Here this may help you;

The comma is a valuable, useful punctuation device because it separates the structural elements of sentences into manageable segments.

1. Use commas to separate independent clauses when they are joined by any of these seven coordinating conjunctions: and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet.

2. Use commas after introductory a) clauses, b) phrases, or c) words that come before the main clause.

3. Use a pair of commas in the middle of a sentence to set off clauses, phrases, and words that are not essential to the meaning of the sentence. Use one comma before to indicate the beginning of the pause and one at the end to indicate the end of the pause.

4. Use commas to separate three or more words, phrases, or clauses written in a series.

5. Use commas wherever necessary to prevent possible confusion or misreading. (Apparently it didn't work)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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If, in fact, the intention of the article was to state that "all peoples should have the right to bear arms", then why the qualifier?

To argue that "a well-maintained Militia" is not included as "all people" is arguing that the founding fathers weren't under the impression that the Militia would be made up of "people", but rather, carpet fragments, blenders, and goats.

In such a well-versed document, this would be the only instance where Madison uttered a redundant qualifier in specifically mentioning "Militia".

Your argument just doesn't hold water.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 06/27/2008

You forgot "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"A well written newspaper being necessary to an educated free state, the right of the people to read and write shall not be infringed."
Does this mean you cant read or write unless you are employed with a newspaper?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 06/27/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 428 fans permalink
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If, in fact, the intention of the amendment was that the right of the people to read and write - there would have been no mention of newspaper.

That's point one.

Secondly, your analogy doesn't work, as it switches subjective and objective. Your analogy would have to be read as "everyone has the right to work at a newspaper publisher"... which proves the whole point of the Militia qualifier.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 06/27/2008
- torrrep I'm a Fan of torrrep 12 fans permalink

That's right. It does say that. Now show me the part where it states that this "well-regulated militia" was the government run military. Also, do you know anything about American History? Who do you think made up these militias? Where were there weapons kept? Did they just show up one weekend a month and then have their weapons handed to them by the government? Since you are clueless I will give you the answers. The militias of the time were NOT controlled by ANY government. Well regulated refers to TRAINING and COOPERATION among the militia members. These members of the militia were used when problems arose in the communities, especially from trouble from OUTSIDE the community. These members used their OWN weapons that were stored in their OWN homes. They were NOT controlled by the government. They were NOT limited by the government. And they were not taken away by the government. So good for you. You can read one sentence of the constitution. Now try going back and reading the historical context into WHY that was written. Then get back to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 06/27/2008
- idest I'm a Fan of idest 3 fans permalink

Here's where it states that:

Article 1: The Congress shall have power To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Article 2: The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States

Try reading the Constitution, then get back to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 06/27/2008
- 5150 I'm a Fan of 5150 3 fans permalink

Article 2 of the 2nd Amendment states political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 AM on 06/27/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

actually--that was Mao

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 06/28/2008
- charlot I'm a Fan of charlot 28 fans permalink
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Praise Jeezis and pass the ammunition! Hoo-wee!
I wonder if there are still people who don't know why the rest of the world sees us as a bunch of gun-toting, bible-thumping, paranoid idiots.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 AM on 06/27/2008
- Kyuzo I'm a Fan of Kyuzo 38 fans permalink

Asserting someone's right to own a gun really has nothing to do with whether that person is a paranoid idiot. But thanks for the attempted generalization.

You wonder why anti-gun legislation goes nowhere...it's because the people who support it blame chunks of steel and plastic for crime. Most of the rest of us see that as paranoid and idiotic, frankly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 AM on 06/27/2008
- sparkandy I'm a Fan of sparkandy 29 fans permalink
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Careful. Someone's gonna come along and scoff at you for implying that "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." It appears that some people actually believe that guns just go out independently and shoot people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 AM on 06/27/2008
- charlot I'm a Fan of charlot 28 fans permalink
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The point is the ease with which one can obtain and use a gun. If someone has a violent temper or is mentally ill, or whatever, he's not going to take out 30 people in seconds with a baseball bat.

Funny how other countries survive perfectly well without arming their citizens to the teeth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 06/27/2008

I like to consider myself more of a bible toting, liberal thumping type.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 AM on 06/27/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

i'm not really concerned with how the rest of the world sees us...their perception is their problem

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 AM on 06/27/2008
- FirstShirt I'm a Fan of FirstShirt 65 fans permalink

Ditto. Getting advice from the middle east and europe is a bit galling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 06/27/2008
- Kyuzo I'm a Fan of Kyuzo 38 fans permalink

I am liberal/progressive on EVERY issue except guns. I shudder to think about how much more brazen the Bush administration would be if they knew our population was unarmed.

If there is really a large contingent of Americans who think that individuals should not have the right to own guns (I'd estimate this contingent at about 25% though), then this contingent should work toward repealing the Second Amendment. Because as long as it's there, Americans will have the right to own guns.

I personally think that the right to bear arms is second to the freedom of speech for a reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 AM on 06/27/2008

Very well put! People who fail to understand history are destined to repeat it. I don't think people fully understand the meaning of that common phrase completely. They fail to also keep in mind that complete power corrupts completely. They think that they are immune from having a government take full control over their lives. They are sadly mistaken! These people are usually the ones intruding on others in the name of "we know what's best for you laws" without thinking fully of the consequences.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 AM on 06/27/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 17 fans permalink

Spouting a few platitudes does not make on erudite. Further, I am boggled that people think that the way revolution in a country like America in 2008 happens is with a gun. It happens by putting pressure on politicians, not by putting a gun to their heads.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 AM on 06/27/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 17 fans permalink

First off, the people of the U.S. provide way too much cheap labor for Bush and his cronies to come after us violently. Second, do you think if the military came after people here, that you could defend yourself with a handgun? Please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 AM on 06/27/2008

Perhaps not completely, but better than throwing rocks, now isn't it. Sorry,but if push comes to shove I'll go with the guy that has a gun to defend me over the one that is using dirt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 AM on 06/27/2008

Scalia used the very historical, "Originalist" argument that you could hold a handgun and dial a phone. Did Madison use that line of reasoning in the Federalist Papers? or is Scalia's phone-y argument completely "Original"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 AM on 06/27/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 20 fans permalink

I fully support the right to bare arms, but I also support the right of States/cities to make their own laws.

Isn't that one of the major right wing talking points that States should be able to decide what they want with out the Fed dictating what they can and can not do?

I guess just more of the same right wing hypocrisy.

2nd amendment or not even in the Wild West cities were allowed to ban guns, I.E. no guns in town, which made life easier and safer for the people in town.

The constitution also lifted the prohibition laws yet every city/county/perish/whatever in this country is allowed to independently make up their own laws concerning the sale of alcohol.

While I support the right to bare arms I am in more support of State and city rights to decide how and if they want to allow guns in town.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 AM on 06/27/2008
- SouPro I'm a Fan of SouPro 9 fans permalink
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If you actually read the ruling, the SC upheld reasonable restrictions on firearms. The only thing the Supreme Court stated was that states/cities cannot outright ban firearms. Your hypothetical Wild West town was probably not in the Union at that point, and would be the favorite target of well armed bandits. They didn't call the Colt Peacemaker "the great equalizer" for nothing.

Alcohol, unlike firearms, is not protected by the Constitution and is subject to varying levels of restriction at all levels of government. Further, unlike a loaded firearm, a civilian is probably not going to be (legally) carrying an open container of alcohol between states/cities/towns. I doubt banning the use of firearms on Sundays is going to affect our gun crime rates.

And as a side note, I like short sleeve shirts and tank tops too, but I'm not sure if the right to bare arms is Constitutionally protected. Regardless, this is a discussion about the right to keep and bear arms so lets try and stay on topic. = )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 AM on 06/27/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 20 fans permalink

No guns in town sounds like a reasonable restriction when you take into consideration more people are killed in D.C. on most days than in Bagdad.

: ) bare/bear : )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 AM on 06/27/2008

Yes, States are permitted to make their own laws as long as it doesn't infringe upon the civil rights afforded all citizens under the Constitution. So any State that tries to infringe upon those rights the Federal Government has the right to overturn such laws. Do remember we do not live in a Democracy but a Republic, though most seem either to forget that or don't know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 AM on 06/27/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 20 fans permalink

I'm not arguing about constitutional rights. We have many rights that are infringed upon, yet the only one some thing is important is the 2nd amendment. I'll be keeping my guns ban or no ban. They can pry them from my cold dead hands if they want em.

I just wonder about how the right says on one hand we support the right of states to make their own decisions and on the other states shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions, then say we should stop the infringement of constitutional rights for the 2nd amendment but step on and disregard the rest (wire tapping for one).

As far as a republic or democracy well that debate has been raging since the election of George Washington.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 AM on 06/27/2008
- steamboat I'm a Fan of steamboat 45 fans permalink

So using your logic concerning cities and states making laws to supercede the courts, then that means we should let the people of California decide issues such as gay marriage and not the courts. You agree?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 06/27/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 20 fans permalink

I do not see anything in the constitution or the Bible for that matter that says Gays should not marry.

The only things I hear are words from the mouths of people filled with hate who use their interpretations of a few lines of scripture to support their own prejudice beliefs.

I feel States should have the right to decide many different things but the right of gays to marry is not a government issue. It is a church issue. If a church is willing to marry gays then it is of no concern of the government, 1st Amendment freedom of religion, separation of church and state.

As far as I'm concerned with gay marriage it is not a government problem it is a church problem. There should be no infringement of any kind by the government when it comes to marriage. If someone wants to marry more than one person, if two men or two women want to wed, if a man and woman want to wed or brother and sister want to wed if a church is willing to do it then it is none of the governments concern. The whole marriage license thing is over stepping the line between church and state just as any regulation by our government when it comes to marriage.

The government shouldn’t force the church to marry gays either, but apparently there are some willing to do so, in California at least.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 06/27/2008
- Mauiloa I'm a Fan of Mauiloa 16 fans permalink
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The solution to gun violence in America is very simple

Barack Obama MUST be elected president so that we Americans who truly are Pro-Life--meaning respecting the life of EVERYONE--can begin replacing the insane Supreme Court Justices: Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy.

Anyone who lives in or near a big city knows about the continuing slaughter of mostly young people that plagues them. To rule that cities don't have a right to protect the citizens who must live in our urban war zones bankrupts everything the Federal Goverment is supposed to be about.

One thing is certain in my mind, however. If this brutality and terror were occurring in white middle class or wealthy areas of our country instead of in the poor urban areas of our big cities and to minorities, nothing would stop the Federal Government from protecting it's "most favored" citizens. Once again, the racism that has dominated our society for 300 years continues unabated at the highest levels of this, "THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH".

Give me a F*cking break! This country isn't even close to being the greatest nation on earth. Not with crap like this going on!

Shame on the five Justices who made this horrible decision. And shame on America for still believing that gun ownership is our birthright and the most important principle in our Constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 AM on 06/27/2008
- sparkandy I'm a Fan of sparkandy 29 fans permalink
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Do you think these sad and tragic incidents of gun violence where the young shoot the young in inner cities are committed by people who LEGALLY own guns? 'Do you think that banning hand guns will make people who own them illegally just go to the nearest police station and peacefully turn them in? Maybe if we regulated access to ammunition we'd have better luck stopping the violence. But banning guns for law abiding citizens isn't going to do a damn thing to solve THAT problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 06/27/2008
- idest I'm a Fan of idest 3 fans permalink

Where do you think those illegally owned guns are coming from? You think they're making them in the basement?

I'm all for banning ammunition, by the way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 06/27/2008

Because criminals always follow the law, right? So if we outlaw guns the criminals will just say, ok, I'm not allowed to have that anymore, guess I better get rid of it. Just like all criminals go down to get a permit for the gun now, right?

DELUSIONAL!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 AM on 06/27/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 17 fans permalink

Somebody buys them legally first. Gun companies are into making money and not going to prison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 06/27/2008
- Mauiloa I'm a Fan of Mauiloa 16 fans permalink
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It's incredible to me that so many people who have commented here have bought into the fear that is being sold to us incessantly on the daily news, in movies, on television and in our music.

I know it's been awhile, but all your arguments for believing that a safe society requires that every man own a fun were torn asunder by Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine.

And if the facts presented in that movide don't make any sense to you, perhaps you should join with the other "Flat Earth" types who don't accept that 150 years of scientific facts supporting evolution can't compete with one book called the Bible.

Fear is a tough thing to overcome, folks, but apparently facts are just too confusing to get your heads around, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 06/27/2008
- SouPro I'm a Fan of SouPro 9 fans permalink
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You do know Obama came out in favor of the decision... right? And you can't replace a Chief Justice unless they remove themselves?

It's not the most important principle, but it's the principle that ensures the most important ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 AM on 06/27/2008
- steamboat I'm a Fan of steamboat 45 fans permalink

These folks don't want to hear that (LOL)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 06/27/2008
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"Give me a F*cking break! This country isn't even close to being the greatest nation on earth. Not with crap like this going on! "

Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way to wherever you believe IS the greatest nation on earthl. If America is so terrible please do those of us who find our nation noble the favor of departing. No one is putting a gun to your head to stay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 AM on 06/27/2008
- Mauiloa I'm a Fan of Mauiloa 16 fans permalink
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The brilliant old philosophical retort of of "Love it or leave it", eh, dude?

Wow! How's that for sparkling debate. Well, I can be just as thought-provoking in my rhetoric as well.

Unfortunately, it's the brain dead like you and the other Right Wing gun wackos who believe that talking is for morons and the best way to solve an issue....almost any issue is by shooting first and then not knowing how to formulate a question later.

Maybe no one is putting a gun to my head to stay and try to make this country more sane and livable for EVERYONE, but I suspect that if you and your gunoholic fellow weekend commandos had their way, I and millions of other more-enlightened thinking folks would all be loaded onto boats at the point of a gun.

Who the F*ck are you trying to kid, Magic man? Basically, the fact that your name is nothing but a depersonalized expression of your lack of self-esteem, but instead displays a devotion to a modern tribal ritual says it all. Go Celtics, right?

So....how did you ever find an intelligent forum like this one to troll? StumbleUpon.com?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 06/27/2008
- arvay I'm a Fan of arvay 140 fans permalink
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PROGRESSIVES!

Too many of you are wrong on this issue.

The people need to have access to small arms to thwart a forceful takeover by an out-of-control government that abrogates the Constitution or otherwise forcefully prevents democracy from functioning.

If you think this is far fetched, you're not paying attention.

This administration's constantly demonstrated willingness to override the Constitution is evidence enough. We have the government openly spying on ordinary citizens. We don't have a citizen army any more, we have volunteers who are ever more distanced from ordinary citizens. What would they do in the event of a political coup? An armed citizenry will help them focus their thoughts.

It's a very good thing that our leaders know that the American people already possesses an estimated 200 million guns. They should think long and hard on that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 AM on 06/27/2008

Ludicrous to the umteenth degree. Take all your weapons and all the people who support your ridiculous argument and try to take over a government that ignores the Constitution. You would end up being cannon fodder against a regime that controls the military and all its high tech weaponry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 AM on 06/27/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 17 fans permalink

Yeah... it's so silly how people think that their Magnum is going to save America. I like superhero movies, too, but it's not gonna happen. And, we already have a power-hungry murderous regime in power and there's been no revolution.

Why? Probably because they keep appeasing all the gun-nuts. If it weren't for these people who get so happy about the government any time they hand them something that supports their hobby, we might have enough people realizing that we need a real revolution that doesn't come at the barrel of a gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 06/27/2008
- arvay I'm a Fan of arvay 140 fans permalink
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There were people like you during the American revolution. Many went to Canada, the rest hid under their beds while the British killed their countrymen. OOOOOO! They're shooting real bullets! Where's my mommy. ???

Useless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 06/27/2008
- provgrays I'm a Fan of provgrays 33 fans permalink

arvay,

You are already living under an out of control government. I don't see you waving your little gun around to defend your rights. Why don't you use it and see how that works out?

Gun loving idiot!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 06/27/2008
- arvay I'm a Fan of arvay 140 fans permalink
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You don't see anything but your cowardly little cliches about guns. People like you are useless, you should join a law firm and make money, watch reality TV and forget about politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 06/27/2008

Why would the 2nd Amendment have been added to the U.S. constitution in the eighteenth century?

Americans had recently come out of a revolution where they were told by their leaders to take up arms against the British.
A number of citizens were living in remote areas with few or no neighbours where there was little or no law enforcement.

Citizens used their weapons to seize Indian lands or their neighbours land.
Citizens had Indian attacks, lawlessness and even wild animals to contend with.

Where in the U.S.A. does this apply today?

Even if it does not apply today and the 2nd Amendment is to be kept in place, there are ways to control the use of firearms in this age of computers etc. There must be controls applied to deadly weapons to make it difficult for criminals to obtain and use them.

Canada and European countries have a lower gun crime rate than does the U.S because they do have controls on gun ownership.

America's law enforcement agencies are begging that controls be put on gun ownership. What is America waiting for?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 AM on 06/27/2008

You argument is flawed in the fact that the "law enforcement" of the day was run by the British Monarchy. As today "law enforcement" is an arm of the government. Sorry, but these are the exact people who will be enforcing what the government wants.

Do you see anyone in law enforcement standing up for what's right now? No. What you do see is law enforcement doing exactly what they are told to do, not what the right thing is to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 AM on 06/27/2008
- steamboat I'm a Fan of steamboat 45 fans permalink

So explain cities like DC and Chicago which had strict gun laws, yet have the highest crime and murder rates?.....I await your reply.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 06/27/2008
- idest I'm a Fan of idest 3 fans permalink

Here a reply, the rate of gun violence DROPPED in DC after the handgun ban went into place. It will now RISE.

There will always be violence in inner cities, some people just like trying minimize it. Guess that doesn't include you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 06/27/2008
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