Supreme Court Upholds Right To Own Guns For Self-Defense

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MARK SHERMAN | June 26, 2008 11:13 PM EST | AP

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Jeff Gildersleeve adjusts the sight on a Glock Model 27 .40-caliber handgun at B & J Guns in Colonie, N.Y., Thursday, June 26, 2008. The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a constitutional right to keep guns in their homes for self-defense, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun control in U.S. history. (AP Photo/Mike Groll)

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home and addressing a constitutional riddle almost as old as the republic over what it means to say the people may keep and bear arms.

The court's 5-4 ruling struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns and imperiled similar prohibitions in other cities, Chicago and San Francisco among them. Federal gun restrictions, however, were expected to remain largely intact.

The court's historic awakening on the meaning of the Second Amendment brought a curiously mixed response, muted in some unexpected places.

The reaction broke less along party lines than along the divide between cities wracked with gun violence and rural areas where gun ownership is embedded in daily life. Democrats have all but abandoned their long push for stricter gun laws at the national level after deciding it's a losing issue for them. Republicans welcomed what they called a powerful precedent.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, straddling both sides of the issue, said merely that the court did not find an unfettered right to bear arms and that the ruling "will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country." But another Chicagoan, Democratic Mayor Richard Daley, called the ruling "very frightening" and predicted more violence and higher taxes to pay for extra police if his city's gun restrictions are lost.

Republican presidential candidate John McCain welcomed the ruling as "a landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom."

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791. The amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The basic issue for the justices was whether the amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia, a once-vital, now-archaic grouping of citizens. That's been the heart of the gun control debate for decades.

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Writing for the majority, Justice Antonin Scalia said an individual right to bear arms exists and is supported by "the historical narrative" both before and after the Second Amendment was adopted.

President Bush said: "I applaud the Supreme Court's historic decision today confirming what has always been clear in the Constitution: the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear firearms."

The full implications of the decision, however, are not sorted out. Still to be seen, for example, is the extent to which the right to have a gun for protection in the home may extend outside the home.

Scalia said the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home." The court also struck down D.C. requirements that firearms be equipped with trigger locks or kept disassembled, but left intact the licensing of guns. The district allows shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

Scalia noted that the handgun is Americans' preferred weapon of self-defense in part because "it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police."

But he said nothing in the ruling should "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

In a concluding paragraph to the 64-page opinion, Scalia said the justices in the majority "are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country" and believe the Constitution "leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that problem, including some measures regulating handguns."

D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty responded with a plan to require residents to register their handguns. "More handguns in the District of Columbia will only lead to more handgun violence," Fenty said.

In a dissent he summarized from the bench, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

He said such evidence "is nowhere to be found."

Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a separate dissent in which he said, "In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas."

Joining Scalia were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. The other dissenters were Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

Gun rights advocates praised the decision. "I consider this the opening salvo in a step-by-step process of providing relief for law-abiding Americans everywhere that have been deprived of this freedom," said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association.

The NRA will file lawsuits in San Francisco, Chicago and several Chicago suburbs challenging handgun restrictions there based on Thursday's outcome.

Some Democrats also welcomed the ruling.

"This opinion should usher in a new era in which the constitutionality of government regulations of firearms are reviewed against the backdrop of this important right," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

The capital's gun law was among the nation's strictest.

Dick Anthony Heller, 66, an armed security guard, sued the district after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his Capitol Hill home a short distance from the Supreme Court.

"I'm thrilled I am now able to defend myself and my household in my home," Heller said shortly after the opinion was announced.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled in Heller's favor and struck down the district's handgun ban, saying the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to own guns and a total prohibition on handguns is not compatible with that right.

The issue caused a split within the Bush administration. Vice President Dick Cheney supported the appeals court ruling, but others in the administration feared it could lead to the undoing of other gun regulations, including a federal law restricting sales of machine guns. Other laws keep felons from buying guns and provide for an instant background check.

The last Supreme Court ruling on the matter came in 1939 in U.S. v. Miller, which involved a sawed-off shotgun. Constitutional scholars agree it did not squarely answer the question of individual versus collective rights.

The case is District of Columbia v. Heller, 07-290.

WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
WASHINGTON — Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home ...
Filed by Katharine Zaleski
 
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- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 76 fans permalink

an example: japan has very strict gun laws. no one is allowed to own a hand gun.

recently a crazy person crashed his truck into a crowd of people and slashed a bunch of people with a knife. if he had a gun many more people would have died. ...unless someone with a concealed permit pulled out his gun and shot him.

on the other hand, there have been several yakuza executions all with hand guns in recent years. the yakuza are criminals. i doubt they would have registered their guns if they had to.

there have also been a rash of armed robberies by chinese gangsters in japan. they do it because there is no chance for the shop owners to defend themselves. i doubt these gangsters would register their guns either or paid attention to a ban on guns.

the insanity of the bush administration should make every american acutely aware that the USA is not immune to a leader bent on controlling and restricting the the rights of the people and may need to be forcibly removed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 06/26/2008

Yes, and if the government wants to turn on the people of Japan during a time of crisis, a Coup, or another form of disaster, Millions can be killed in under a week. Just look at the last century, Rwanda, Sudan, Cambodia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 PM on 06/26/2008
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How many of the PRIVATE citizens of Rwanda, Sudan, & Cambodia has guns to begin with... no less had them taken away?

PROOF, please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 06/26/2008
- Amennyc I'm a Fan of Amennyc 16 fans permalink
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Your "militia" would then be considered a "terrorist" groups and off to Guantanamo with no right to a court proceeding. In Tokyo, the people don't lock their bikes. Clear sign to me that crime is extremely low. So check again, your argument is as weak as the joker presi-don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 06/26/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 76 fans permalink

japan is the perfect example of a crime free country with strict gun control where ONLY criminals have guns. the lack of guns in the general population is not the reason for the low crime rate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 06/26/2008
- swooge I'm a Fan of swooge 13 fans permalink
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Funny thing about what you said. Criminals rob banks, convenience stores and just about everything else right here in the States and all those owners CAN own and bear arms to defend themselves. As a matter of fact, they do it at a rate much, much more than in Japan. How come?

I'm acutely aware that in this country we settle our political differences at the ballot box.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 06/26/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 76 fans permalink

there are thousands of examples where a criminal has been thwarted by a person with a concealed weapon permit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 06/26/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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We come into flawed reasoning when we try too much to compare two countries. There are too many variables to consider that could throw off the conclusion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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The Yakuza and Mafia mostly just kill each other. It's the amateurs I'm more worried about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 06/26/2008
- noneIn2008 I'm a Fan of noneIn2008 27 fans permalink

Good to see defense of our basic rights. I've read the court decision in detail and as always, it is limited in scope. At least it reinforces our basic right as an individual. You should consider it more of protecting us from the State. Given the choice of those like McCain, we would lose all our basic rights.

To claim the choice of President this time will make any difference is wrong. We lose either way. McCain and Obama will appoint judges to take away our rights and give the state more power, propagating the imperial Presidency.

As a side note for those commenting, the crime rate goes down in cities and counties who enact "right to carry".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 PM on 06/26/2008
- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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That depends on who designs the statistical models, and who reads them. My sense from those without a dog in the fight is that, on balance, gun control has slightly beneficial effect. Hardly worth losing sleep over either way, and not worth sacrificing any significant liberties for, but a slight benefit nonetheless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 06/26/2008

"For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent."

"Concealed handgun laws reduce violent crime for two reasons. First, they reduce the number of attempted crimes because criminals are uncertain which potential victims can defend themselves. Second, victims who have guns are in a much better position to defend themselves."

"Question: What is the basis for these numbers? The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States"

(-from the book- More Guns, Less Crime)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 PM on 06/26/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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this is not about concealed weapons, sherlock

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 06/26/2008

The concealed weapons my friends and family own are HANDGUNS, sherlock.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 PM on 06/26/2008
- swooge I'm a Fan of swooge 13 fans permalink
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Nice propoganda but there is absolutely no correlation between concealed carry laws and drops in crime.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/

Looking at the crime data for a cocealed carry state like Texas shows that after a high in violent crime and murders in 1991 they went down for a while until they started to treand back up in 2000.
Crime statistics for a partial carry state like New York where concealed carry licenses are not issued in large cities but are in rural areasshows that crime has steadily gone down since 1991.
A state like Hawaii has a no concealed carry law and their murders and rapes have gone down while overall violent crimes have trended upward.

Why all the up-and-down with violent crime? Because it's tied more to economics than anything else. Good times=crime goes down. Bad times=crime goes up.

Concealed carry laws are a talking point and nothing more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 06/26/2008

Finally!

Instead of legislating from the bench, the Supreme Court has seen exactly what this country needs!

More guns for everyone!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 PM on 06/26/2008
- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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Listen. I think this was the right decision, but conceptually it was EXACTLY the kind of "legislating from the bench" conservatives whine about. The truth is that buzzwords like "judicial activism" are very pliable, and each side is predictably promiscuous about how they're used.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 06/26/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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Excellent point, LeoMarvin. Conservatives would *love* for all of *their* issues to be decided from the bench. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, I'm afraid. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 06/26/2008

And Obama supported this decision, which he must know makes every American living in D.C. much less safe.

My support for the guy dwindles daily. Much more of this flip flopping, and I won't vote for him.

I already haven't lived in the US for years due to my disgust with the direction the country has been moving. Maybe it's time to just give up on it. I thought Obama was sincere. Perhaps I was just sincerely wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 PM on 06/26/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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since you have been out of the country so long you obviously need to brush up on Civics 101 - by the way O is trained as a Constitutional lawyer and lives in DC when Congress is in session

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 06/26/2008
- Thirdpower I'm a Fan of Thirdpower 50 fans permalink
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He's so well trained the thinks the BOR "creates" rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 06/26/2008
- shedances I'm a Fan of shedances 41 fans permalink
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Don't give up on Obama yet, Tianzi. I'm not sure if he agrees with DC or not ... but he has always taken an overall, strong stance on gun control.

K

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 PM on 06/26/2008

five to four?????? Five to Four?????? WTF do our Supreeeeeeem court reps THINK TO come that close to loosing an actual amendment??? THE SECOND AMENDMENT? VERY VERY FRIGHTING.... WE ARE LOOSING THIS CONTRY.....ONE PERSON MADE THIS HAPPEN TODAY.... BOTH LIBS AND REPUBS NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS.......ONE PERSON..........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 06/26/2008

You mean ... it's NOT a living document?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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I'm still trying to find "unitary executive", "enemy combatant" and "enhanced interrogation techniques" in there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 PM on 06/26/2008
- graffen48 I'm a Fan of graffen48 10 fans permalink
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Calm down, I'm sure you're happy now. You can stock up on those weapons and blow anything away that steps one foot on your property!! God forbid if it was a lost child looking for directions or some poor old lady with alzeimers who accidently wandered into your yard. Hey!! It's your right so fire away!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 06/26/2008
- 1will I'm a Fan of 1will 34 fans permalink

Actually despite your hysterical claims the 2nd Amendment does not give you a license to kill.
All this ruling did was even the playing field in Washington, DC. Now a homeowner can defend him/herself and be on an equal footing with an armed criminal. If I were a criminal, a friend of a criminal or the family member of a criminal I would be upset with this ruling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 06/26/2008
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EASY there big fella ..........

Sit down, breath in through your nose.... out through your mouth... get that heart rate down to below 500 bps....

& then READ the DECISION!

ALL nine Justices agreed that Americans have a right to bear arms....

& you CAN'T repeal one of the Bill of Rights!

Now....

feel better?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 PM on 06/26/2008
- Agathena I'm a Fan of Agathena 5 fans permalink
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It was a 5-4 decision.

Kennedy went along with the usual block Scalia/Thomas/Alito/Roberts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 06/26/2008
- DMSmith I'm a Fan of DMSmith 17 fans permalink

This is a horrible decision. The right in the 2nd amendment seems to be for an individual right as regards a militia - not as a personal accessory.

I live in Oakland, CA. The other day NINE people were killed in one day in SF and Oakland in senseless killings. We live in fear. Children are wandering around with weapons and using them senselessly.

This is not what the framers had in mind.

Note that this ruling mentions specifically the keeping of a gun at home for security. I have no problem with that - or with hunting.

Our 'gun thing' in this country is sick, and we'd better learn to deal with it and not assume we all have the right to run around armed and stupid. I'm afraid this ruling will lead to more of that.

Not an hour ago, the neighbor kid and some of his buddies were in a violent yelling match at the curb. I left the front of my house and went to the rear so as not to be in the line of fire if guns were brought out. We live in a house worth about $400,000.00, and yet, we do not feel safe for a moment. This is what such a ruling will encourage.

Be very afraid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:06 PM on 06/26/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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I empathize with you, DM. I live in Los Angeles and see, hear, and read about violence often. I think we are misguided to think that guns are the problem. Sure, it is easy to make that conclusion because *bam* pull a trigger and a bullet comes out. But guess what? A gun purchased through underground markets are just as deadly as those which are purchased through legitimate means. This issue-- violence-- is something that needs to be addressed through education and equality in opportunity and income.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 PM on 06/26/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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is that in the Constitution???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 06/26/2008

"This is not what the framres had in mind" Amazing! You say you know what THEY were thinking?

Well, let's see what they ACTUALLY thought!

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws."
--John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)
The great object is, that every man be armed ... Every one who is able may have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry, Elliot, p.3:386

Need more? They are overwhelming in their support of this Amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 PM on 06/26/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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times change

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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So if the government were to say, spy on the citizenry or suspend Habeas Corpus or lock people up indefinitely without trial we could use the second amendment to overthrow it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 06/26/2008
- awcbuddy8 I'm a Fan of awcbuddy8 8 fans permalink

I don't think the framers thought too much about abortion either, but ther you go.

If you honestly think that the Founding Fathers were in favor of taking arms away from the people...then I don't know what to tell you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 PM on 06/26/2008

Dear Mr. Smith,
Could it be that the problem you describe is the neighborhood kid and his buddies and not the guns they use to kill each other. If you could fix the root problem, there would not be a reason to be concerned about the side effects.
In Japan, firearms are banned but I just read about a Crazy knifing ten people before he was stopped, similar to our school shootings.
If society breeds killers, they will kill using any tool at their disposal. Guns just happen to be the most popular tool in America.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 PM on 06/26/2008
- 1will I'm a Fan of 1will 34 fans permalink

Good point. Let's disarm everyone because of the actions of a few felons. Later we'll move on to crushing our cars because of other people driving drunk.
Here's a novel idea. Let's go after the criminals and leave law abiding citizens alone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 06/26/2008
- pinkerman2 I'm a Fan of pinkerman2 5 fans permalink

Actually iwill, if we could disarm big mourhs like yours society would be more peaceful.
Heaven help the law 'going after' fully armed and dangerous punks now that we are reverting to a lawless frontier. A FEW FELONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 06/26/2008
- Wilburrr I'm a Fan of Wilburrr 16 fans permalink
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What is the record for the number of posts to a HuffPo article? 3445+ has to be close.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 06/26/2008

The reason is because people who believe in the 2nd Amendment pass over the Left and Right divide.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 06/26/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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Absolutely. I am a left-leaning (libertarian-socialist) who advocates keeping our gun rights in tact. It is not out of "fear" as some people have said. It is logic. I wish I could be so idealistic as to think that a total ban on guns, or even just handguns, would make us more "safe". Just as I would like to believe that making drugs illegal will keep kids clean. But this is not reality. That is a pipe dream (pun totally intended).

I will say it again: We need to focus on WHY people commit crime. They will always find a HOW no matter what laws are in place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 06/26/2008
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We are talking about more than 100 pages of comments... This isn't even close to a record. This is low for a main thread.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 PM on 06/26/2008

This may be a little premature and ambitious of me, but I hope this decision initiates the constitutional amendment process as soon as Obama is sworn in to strike the 2nd A from the Constitution. Obviously, it would be an uphill battle to get 3/4 of states on board, but a Democratic Congress should take a stand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 06/26/2008

I hope so too...It will guarantee a 1 term President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 06/26/2008

Nah, you'd see an actual impeachment take place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 06/26/2008

Yeah, since Obama came out for the decision. Keep hoping though. An "uphill battle"? LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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Even if I thought it was a good idea, and I don't, it would never be ratified. Much of the country is still rural and guns are very much a part of life in those places.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 06/26/2008
- ema I'm a Fan of ema 23 fans permalink
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I completely agree with you. The second amendment is antiquated to the point that we can't even seem to agree what they were talking about. It no longer applies to our reality. What in the heck is a "militia"? I ain't seen any of those around here. And "arms", in this day and age wouldn't that include nuclear missiles?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 06/26/2008

No longer applies to reality!!

Gun rights serves two major purposes: First, it allows individuals to protect themselves when the Government is unable to protect them; second, it allows individuals to protect themselves from the Government when it unjustly attacks them. The truth is that liberty cannot thrive in a country where its citizens are prohibited from protecting themselves.

While there are those who assert that Governments would never attack its own citizens, that argument can be quickly dispelled by looking at other parts of the world where guns have been banned. The world’s greatest atrocities over the last century were all committed by armed governments or mobs against unarmed populations. Conversely, there has not been a single case of genocide in the last century against an armed citizenry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 PM on 06/26/2008

The Democrats are no doubt dumb enough to do that.

With the economy a wreck, our civil liberties gone, our standing in the world destroyed, with an energy crisis coming on like tornado and our nation bankrupt - I could see them spending a session of congress trying to take away our right to protect ourselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 06/26/2008
- graffen48 I'm a Fan of graffen48 10 fans permalink
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A 38 special ain't gonna protect you from a SWAT team, or much of anything else, except maybe a lost old lady. But don't get me wrong, if having a gun makes you feel more secure, then more power to you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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I actually like guns, and own several. But I still don't understand the near religious fetish that some people have for them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 06/26/2008
- 1will I'm a Fan of 1will 34 fans permalink

I don't understand the irrational phobia that some have of law abiding gun owners.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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Because law abiding gun owners get depressed, experience road rage, get drunk, get laid off, do stupid things occasionally, have messy divorces just like the rest of society but when you throw a gun into the mix things can get ugly.

That and I'm troubled by anyone who's so paranoid that they feel unable to go out in public without a concealed handgun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 06/26/2008
- Acebass I'm a Fan of Acebass 17 fans permalink
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I guess my right to life liberty and happyness can go to hell over others perceived right to have a deadly weapon. We are no longer a civilized society.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 06/26/2008
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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What if we take away all guns and you get hit by a bus? Should we take away all buses so that others can enjoy their "right to life, liberty and happiness"? This is circular logic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 06/26/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 17 fans permalink

First, it isn't circular logic. A circular argument would be one in which you come to a conclusion in virtue of using that conclusion as one of your premises. What you are attempting to do is argue that the principle by which Ace is arguing that the ruling is incorrect may be applied to make illegal things that no one would want to make illegal.

What is wrong with that argument is that the primary use of a bus is not to kill people. The primary purpose of a gun is to kill. And no, most people are not good enough to shoot people other than to kill. That is precisely why police officers are always taught to shoot to kill and not to shoot unless they intend to kill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 06/26/2008

ummm that's not a "perceived right" it's an actual right. Its called the Second Amendment. Ponder why it's the 2nd, not 26th or something? I think it was pretty important to come second right after "Freedom of Religion, Press"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 06/26/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 407 fans permalink
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Is that why we've thrown out the 4th amendment? Because # 4 must not be that important?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 06/26/2008
- teddyr I'm a Fan of teddyr 6 fans permalink

Yes, it was an important right .........during the days of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. If you recall your history, the people of the United States needed to have a right to defend themselves against the British, knocking on their doors. They needed to have the right to defend themselves and the Nation. So each man joined together to create a militia. The last time I looked, all of that is behind us. We have other problems now. Like crime in the cities. Children shooting children in the classroom. Crazy drive-by shooters. A teen-ager here in Nevada, just got shot for no reason by a gang member. He was an innocent by-stander, These were learned men, our founding fathers. And if they looked around, I'm sure they would sit down and amend the portion of the Constitution that has no meaning in todays society.

Being sensible, I'm sure they would include a section about shooting for sport. And I'm sure they would add a few lines that this could be allowed with certain restrictions, rules and regulations. Although, they looked at hunting as the need to gather food. if they saw that people kill for fun, and can get food very nicely wrapped in a grocery store, they might frown on even that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 PM on 06/26/2008

Acebass: "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness " is one of the most famous phrases in the United States Declaration of Independence. These three aspects are listed among the "inalienable rights" of man."
The Supreme Court just affirmed your right to protect your own life with a handgun, liberty has been preserved with firearms many times, and you only have the right to pursue happiness because happiness is not a guaranteed right, only the pursuit thereof is.
Having personal freedoms is not why the U.S. is no longer a civilized society. You should look elsewhere for a reason to feel the way you do. Guns didn't make present society the way it is. I know because I lived when guns were accepted and society was civil.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 PM on 06/26/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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GEEZ, you must be old!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 PM on 06/26/2008
- dartagnan I'm a Fan of dartagnan 51 fans permalink
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I haven't read the decision but based on the news accounts of it, it seems rational: Governments can regulate firearms but can't ban them completely. Now we can anticipate an endless series of court cases over the issue of how far regulation can go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 PM on 06/26/2008

Here is the actual decision. Scalia is very persuasive.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

The limit on guns is basically that criminals can be limited and mentally unstable and "unusual guns"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 06/26/2008

Nice link Red! Good to see someone else reads the facts!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:51 PM on 06/26/2008
- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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The allowable limits are a lot more extensive than that, but best to read the opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 PM on 06/26/2008

For those that think this is the end of it: Its just the beginning. For "as Justice Scalia’s opinion said in closing, “there will be time enough to expound upon” what was not decided Thursday. And, no doubt, that time is coming soon." Read more here:


http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/commentary-so-whats-next-on-guns/#more-7568

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 06/26/2008
- BEHM777 I'm a Fan of BEHM777 13 fans permalink
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I suppose I am disappointed with the decision because it left so many questions unanswered. I believe DC was RIGHT to have banned handguns. I grew up there and I know the landscape. The ban was necessary and proper. Oh well.

I am curious to see how this plays out over the next couple of years e.g., how will states and cities that are not federal enclaves will deal with the certain plethora of lawsuits coming their way.

One thing for sure, this decision will prove to be a lawyer's dream. Litigation, litigation and more litigation!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 06/26/2008
- sytgrl I'm a Fan of sytgrl 8 fans permalink

I am also from DC and I disagree. Though I am far from a handgun advocate, the ban in DC was unconstitutional. In addition, the majority of people who commit crimes usually get their handguns illegally, or would not be eligible to purchase a handgun under this ruling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 06/26/2008
- BEHM777 I'm a Fan of BEHM777 13 fans permalink
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When you consider that the DC police is HORRIBLE at solving crimes, what could prevent a criminal-minded individual from legally obtaining a weapon? Too many perps don't get caught, so there is no paper on them. No paper means no means to prevent them from legally obtaining a weapon. What would stop someone with nefarious purposes from becoming a gun dealer?

I accept SCOTUS' decision, even though I don't dig it too much. DC is FEDERAL property, so this decision is narrower in scope than is appears on first blush. I just hope the doomsday scenarios do not play out, because DC has more than enough gun violence as it is. I do not doubt that legally obtained firearms will be used in the commission of crimes or that there will be accidental killings because of people that are not well versed in gun safety.

I just wish the majority had spelled more things out because they potentially just opened a ginormous can of worms--big, fat, slimy ones at that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 AM on 06/27/2008
- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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Fwiw, today's decision changed very little, because the Supreme Court didn't take up the question of "incorporation." That's the legal doctrine through which the 14th Amendment applies to the states certain rights an individual has against the Federal government. For example, until the Supreme Court ruled otherwise in the early 20th Century, the First Amendment wasn't considered incorporated into the 14th Amendment, so state and local governments could restrict all the speech they wanted. Likewise, as of now the individual gun rights announced today apply only in the District of Columbia and other federal jurisdictions. Every other local gun control law will continue in effect until one is challenged and makes its way to the Supreme Court to decide if the 2d Amendment is incorporated by the 14th against the states. As a practical matter, unless you live in D.C., nothing happened today.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 06/26/2008

"But conservative jurists, like those who made the majority in the Heller case, usually are not fond of lifting parts of the Bill of Rights out for inclusion under the Fourteenth Amendment. Given the glowing rhetoric applied to the virtues of an individual right to have a gun, perhaps that reluctance might be overcome."


http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/commentary-so-whats-next-on-guns/#more-7568

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 06/26/2008
- LeoMarvin I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin 35 fans permalink
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We'll see. I think if Scalia could have dragged Kennedy into a wink and nod in that direction today, he would have. Instead, the footnote that addressed incorporation was willfully opaque.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 06/26/2008
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