Keith Olbermann, Glenn Greenwald Feud Over FISA

A war of words has broken out between two of the progressive blogosphere's most beloved figures: MSNBC's Keith Olbermann and blogger/author Glenn Greenwald of Salon.com.

In a post yesterday, Greenwald charged that Olbermann's "blind devotion to Barack Obama" had let him to excuse and defend Obama's support of the FISA 'compromise' legislation. Greenwald noted that Olbermann has previously condemned the idea of giving immunity to telecom companies that spied on Americans, calling it a "shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism" and comparing it to the actions of the Third Reich.

"But," Greenwald wrote, "[n]ow that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing -- and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists -- everything has changed."

Last night, Olbermann invited Newsweek's Jonathan Alter onto his show to discuss Obama's support for the FISA and telecom amnesty bill (video of the segment is here). There wasn't a syllable uttered about "immunizing corporate criminals" or "textbook examples of Fascism" or the Third Reich. There wasn't a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, the two media stars jointly hailed Obama's bravery and strength -- as evidenced by his "standing up to the left" in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise. [...]

Grave warning on Olbermann's show that telecom amnesty and FISA revisions were hallmarks of Bush Fascism instantaneously transformed into a celebration that Obama, by supporting the same things, was leading a courageous, centrist crusade in defense of our Constitution.

There's much more -- you can read Greenwald's full post here. And Olbermann responded with a post last night on Daily Kos.

He explained his segment by citing former Nixon aide (and frequent Countdown guest) John Dean's argument that the FISA compromise "clearly did not preclude future criminal prosecution of the telecoms - it only stopped civil suits." (He added, "I think John Dean is worth 25 Glenn Greenwalds (maybe 26 Keith Olbermanns)."

More Olbermann:

Thus, as I phrased it on the air tonight, obviously Obama kicked the left in the teeth by supporting the bill. But anybody who got as hot about this as I did would prefer to see a President Obama prosecuting the telecoms criminally, instead of seeing a Senator Obama engender more "soft on terror" crap by casting a token vote in favor of civil litigation that isn't going to pass since so many other Democrats caved anyway.

When Markos was on (Monday? Again, blurs) he made the simple but essential point that if this is Obama's rationale for this, maybe he should explain it. I think it can be argued that if he's caught the same hole in the bill that Dean has, his best course is actually to shut up and take the criticism and hope the Republicans don't see the loophole.

I don't know much about Mr. Greenwald and I didn't read his full piece, but I do know that the snippet he's taken out of the transcript of my conversation with Jon Alter last night makes it sound like I was saying defying the left was a good thing. I was actually contrasting it to not cowering to the Republicans, simply as a different thing.

I do think Mr. Greenwald's suggestion of some kind of betrayal on my part is simplistic and childish. I'll take the Dean interpretation of this. If it isn't the Senator's game plan, he'll catch hell from me about it later.

Quick Poll

Who's right?

Glenn Greenwald

Keith Olbermann

Comments

[rkrenke]

When I want fact and substance, I read Greenwald - when I want infotainment, I watch Olbermann.

Olbermann's out of his league on this one. If he doesn't hold Obama accountable for FISA, he's nothing more than a left-leaning version of O'Reilly. Keith needs to step up on this one or he's going to help set Obama up for the "flip flopping" swiftboating that's sure to come.

Even John Dean issued a statement saying that Olbermann misrepresented what he said. Keith should leave the constitutional law to Greenwald and Dean and stand up for the principles he says are dear to him.

[racom]

Well put. So far I can't go against Glenn, the man is a stalwart in defending the constitution. Just can't say that about Obama!

[clearthinker2008]

I'm like this..do the "progressive" want the man to win or not? Do they really expect O to follow their agenda to the letter? Right now isn't the time to throw a Hillary Clinton Supporters angry 2nd grader fit. We can't let Mc Cain into the White House, remember him....bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. We need national health care, improved schools and someone who isn't BIG OILS B*tch. Stop whining and in fighting and let's get O elected.

[racom]

I'll stick with Glenn on this. From the ACLU's website:
"Moving forward on this terrible bill is disappointing to say the least," said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "If the vote on final passage is delayed until after recess, we hope that Senators will return to their districts and see just how strongly their constituents oppose this bill. Perhaps the Fourth of July will remind them of the American values of liberty and freedom."

High-ranking Republicans have touted the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 as a victory for the Bush administration. Senate Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Senator Christopher Bond (R-MO) told reporters, "I think the White House got a better deal than even they had hoped to get."

Without question the bill gives far more to the fear mongers than even they had hoped for. At the expense of our civil liberties. This is a fight to preserve our nation, time to count who are our friends.

[naschkatze]

I am a member of the ACLU, and I think they are far, far more effective in protecting the Constitution than the Democratic Party has been. But when those congressmen and senators go back to their districts and states, they are not going to find that a majority of their constituents oppose the bill. We have a scairdy-cat populace, and unlike us on the Internet, fear is going to trump the Constitution with them every time. We bloggers have to realize that though we have grown and we are very vocal, we are not the majority and alone cannot win the election for Obama. We have to be patient just a little bit longer and win in November when we can change things. In the meantime I hope our 15 good guys can postpone the vote on FISA until way past July 8, until January I hope.

[dr4Will]

Oder-mann is a flip-flopping obama surrogate--he has little talent and supports the words of his hero no matter what is said--Greenwald is a first class writer and thinker--he is completely right in recognising the hypocrisy of the black candidate--lefties have no standards they just play follow the leader--regardless of the flip-flopping leader!!!

[Liberal2]

"I promise a more humble foreign policy."

Now, crawl back under your rock, bushoid.

[racom]

A little harsh there, try to learn to play nice! King george has already made enough enemies for us to last a life time!

[celticjag]

Olbermann should read the transcript of his show of 6/19 and concentrate on the words of Prof. Jonathan Turley. How can he defend Obama's disregard for the Fourth Amendment and the dangerous precedent that this FISA bill sets for the future?

[TrueThis]

This bill can always be amended once Obama is elected. But some are forgetting the protection of this country.

[NABNYC]

Obama is wrong on the fisa bill, and his efforts to rationalize his decision are absurd. Nonetheless, I see no reason to waste breath attacking him on this issue, since I assume he will compromise various issues in the months leading to November. We'll have to wait to see if he governs as a progressive or if he starts fundingraising for his second term as soon as he sets foot in the white house. Olbermann is trying hard to find some plausible explanation for this, but there is none.

The telecom immunity is outrageous. The truth of this law is that Congress just voted to prevent the public from ever finding out what Bush's secret police have been doing over the past 8 years as they take videos of our sex lives, record our phone conversations, read our e-mails, photograph every second of our lives, without any right or supervision. Big Brother was put into place by Bush's secret police, and the Democrats are going along with the plan to keep this all a secret from the public forever. I assume the Dems want it to remain secret because they have collaborated in it all, and fear how harshly they will be judged for their betrayal of trust.

Principles, not personalities: don't worry too much about Obama -- just keep pushing the right position on the issues regardless of who sits in the white house.

[ObamAtomic]

As matter of principles,civil right suit should be allowed ,and there is this, relevance for future
companies not to be indulge on illegal activities,prosecution and conviction of few seniors
and obscure executives wont be exemplary,why compromise law and money.

[kotexbarbie]

The Republicans are trying to tie Obama to Jimmy Carter or now John Kerry (see Grover Norquist article). Turns out he's more like Nixon -- he's got a "secret plan to end the war" -- or rather, he's got a "secret plan to prosecute the telecoms" -- it's just so secret, he can't tell you about it.

I'll take GG over KO ANYDAY!

Edwards 2012

[huffnpuffn]

Score one for Greenwald. Olbermann is good theater but sadly doesn't seem to want to invest the effort to understand the issue at hand. I mean, seriously, consider this quote from his piece at the Daily Kos:

"I don't know much about Mr. Greenwald and I didn't read his full piece..."

Is Olbermann aware of the internet?

Glenn rails against lazy reporters all the time. This is no different and Olbermann is no less worthy of disdain in this particular case.

[fymioyo]

Agree (big talk, superficial research) -- though my guess is that Olbermann in this instance is fully aware of Greenwald and mined the entire piece for stuff to (snarkily) respond to (you just know if there had been one inaccurate syllable, he'd be braying about it on Countdown). His "I don't know... didn't read his full piece" just sounds uncomfortably like Cheney, who -- condescendingly, conveniently -- never seems to have "seen the article you're referring to."

[prattvictory]

The only person I agree with on every single issue is Jeremiah Wright. Why should I feel compelled to agree with anyone else?

[StephenJK]

Cheese and RICE, you're lost. If you take the ravings of lunatics as gospel than you need help. Only YOU can prevent drinking of tainted kool-aid. Only you!

Wright may have an iota of a clue to valid points. However, his tact is WOEFULLY inadequate when placed next to the likes of MLK and X. I think X would describe Wright as a "racialist". Fairly, I might add. Inflammatory in nature and a subtraction to meaningful progress.

[PKSSK]

The media can continue to beat this dead horse of an argument between two strong minded individuals who, basically, agree in principle on the FISA issue, but differ in how they voice the problem publicly. They are both confident, strong willed, intelligent voices who speak truth to power, but in different media platforms. I am fans of both, and will continue to be, because they both continue to be a rare quality found in media today, which is they both have become the public voice of reasoned truth for a majority of people and I am truly grateful. I think Keith should invite Glenn on his show with John Dean and Prof Turley so we can all reap the benefits of an education on FISA and it's relationship to the Patriot Act. Actually, there are so many legal issues that have arisen, as a result of the last seven years of this administration, that there may be a need for a weekly segment on Countdown. It would be a great way to educate the public on the reality of our diminishing democracy.

[Mithrall]

I am a huge fan of Keith Olbermann but I think this time he is on the wrong side of the issue. The are democratic principles involved are tied directly to the Bill of Rights. I don't think it is appropriate to play political games with the Bill of Rights which is what Obama is doing if Dean is correct in his assessment of Obama's strategy. What happens if, God forbid, John McCain is elected president? The Democrats will have effectively given immunity to the telecoms from both civil and criminal prosocution. I think it is a little early for Obama and the Democratic party to be counting their chickens.

[MidwestMomma]

Sorry Mr. Greenwald, time to get off your high horse and come down to the ground where the real fight is. It's this never ending "holier than now" attitude so many progressive feel entitled to that will keep us from the winner's circle once again.

Seriously, of all the things we have to fight for on principle, making sure we can sue the telcoms in civil court is NOT one of them. The real art of compromise is sorely lacking in much of the netroots to the detriment of us all. We have to learn to pick our fights wisely or we'll be nothing more than principled idiots crying on the sidelines once again.

We must stop this incessant, unyielding disection of our best chance at winning the real battle in decades. Maybe we should adopt a little ditty that I find coming to mind alot lately as our anthem to keep us off that high horse and in the trenchs..."You can't always get what you want but it you try sometimes, you get what you need!"

[H.L. Mencken]

both gentlemen have a penchant for trivia! They ideate occum razor varibles and pose them in augment-all to no avail-

[luxou812]

Your take on this is why you are a loser. I hope BO doesn't expect another $25 from me. I won't listen to any of his BS speeches either. He is a fake. To hell with you silly party.

You have to do the right thing. Not win elections W.

[chronic]

Gawd you are ignorant!

[naschkatze]

I threatened Obama with withholding my donations, but I think the Republicans are trying to maneuver Obama into a corner over FISA. You know damn well that if he voted no, they would accuse him of being soft on terrorism, especially if there were an incident somewhere in the world before the election. They were trying to get him to make a misstep on the Supreme Court decisions re guns and the death penalty, but he's too smart for them. We small Internet donors got him the nomination, but we have to realize now that he can't play Denis Kucinich and expect to win the general election. I want the Republicans out more than anything.

[soupson52]

so...you're gonna vote bah bah bah, bah bah iran. cool.

[MidwestMomma]

Oh! No! You think I'm a loser. Boo-hoo! I don't know what "you silly party" is or why you want to damn them but I'm sure you think it's the right thing to do. Good luck with that and with not winning "elections W?"

I intend to support, defend and work for Senator Obama even though we don't agree on everything we do agree on most things so for me it is the right thing to do. I so sorry your $25 didn't buy you the influence you expected better luck with your future donations.

Momma for Obama

[clearthinker2008]

Midwestmomma, I totally agree with you. There are issues I have with O also, but let's be realistic about this. I don't have the "lesser of the two evils" thing going on. I believe O will be a really good Pres. However he won't do everything I want him to, and maybe he'll do some fantastic stuff to surprise me. What's with this perfection thing some progressive people got going on here about anyway?

[sacto92]

It's hilarious to watch HuffPo over the last couple of years in regards to everybody's approval or disapproval of various journalists. I've seen so many journalists/commentators loved by the HuffPo crowd one moment, only to be trashed a couple of months later because the person in question doesn't fall in lock step with one particular issue. You all attack the journalists who you consider far right for being biased but quickly turn against anybody who doesn't stay far left on every issue. It really shows what the desired outcome of the fairness doctrine is.

[Totto]

With all this bitching going on, get ready to cede the next four years to Ol' Wrinkly and a Supreme Court of Scalias, "My friends, there will be more wars" and eating out of cans (when we are able to afford them). Glenn Greenwald is reminiscent of a young David Horowitz, once an equally outraged far lefty, and all around jerk.