Keith Olbermann, Glenn Greenwald Feud Over FISA

A war of words has broken out between two of the progressive blogosphere's most beloved figures: MSNBC's Keith Olbermann and blogger/author Glenn Greenwald of Salon.com.

In a post yesterday, Greenwald charged that Olbermann's "blind devotion to Barack Obama" had let him to excuse and defend Obama's support of the FISA 'compromise' legislation. Greenwald noted that Olbermann has previously condemned the idea of giving immunity to telecom companies that spied on Americans, calling it a "shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism" and comparing it to the actions of the Third Reich.

"But," Greenwald wrote, "[n]ow that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing -- and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists -- everything has changed."

Last night, Olbermann invited Newsweek's Jonathan Alter onto his show to discuss Obama's support for the FISA and telecom amnesty bill (video of the segment is here). There wasn't a syllable uttered about "immunizing corporate criminals" or "textbook examples of Fascism" or the Third Reich. There wasn't a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, the two media stars jointly hailed Obama's bravery and strength -- as evidenced by his "standing up to the left" in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise. [...]

Grave warning on Olbermann's show that telecom amnesty and FISA revisions were hallmarks of Bush Fascism instantaneously transformed into a celebration that Obama, by supporting the same things, was leading a courageous, centrist crusade in defense of our Constitution.

There's much more -- you can read Greenwald's full post here. And Olbermann responded with a post last night on Daily Kos.

He explained his segment by citing former Nixon aide (and frequent Countdown guest) John Dean's argument that the FISA compromise "clearly did not preclude future criminal prosecution of the telecoms - it only stopped civil suits." (He added, "I think John Dean is worth 25 Glenn Greenwalds (maybe 26 Keith Olbermanns)."

More Olbermann:

Thus, as I phrased it on the air tonight, obviously Obama kicked the left in the teeth by supporting the bill. But anybody who got as hot about this as I did would prefer to see a President Obama prosecuting the telecoms criminally, instead of seeing a Senator Obama engender more "soft on terror" crap by casting a token vote in favor of civil litigation that isn't going to pass since so many other Democrats caved anyway.

When Markos was on (Monday? Again, blurs) he made the simple but essential point that if this is Obama's rationale for this, maybe he should explain it. I think it can be argued that if he's caught the same hole in the bill that Dean has, his best course is actually to shut up and take the criticism and hope the Republicans don't see the loophole.

I don't know much about Mr. Greenwald and I didn't read his full piece, but I do know that the snippet he's taken out of the transcript of my conversation with Jon Alter last night makes it sound like I was saying defying the left was a good thing. I was actually contrasting it to not cowering to the Republicans, simply as a different thing.

I do think Mr. Greenwald's suggestion of some kind of betrayal on my part is simplistic and childish. I'll take the Dean interpretation of this. If it isn't the Senator's game plan, he'll catch hell from me about it later.

Quick Poll

Who's right?

Glenn Greenwald

Keith Olbermann

Comments

[kira181]

Right now, Olbermann would give half of his annual salary not to have gone Obama-crazy.

[SwingVoter]

Keith Olbermann is an intelligent man who understands that an Obama Presidency would be better than that of W. Bush McCain, but I understand where Glenn Greenwald is coming from.

[jcjewell]

Obama has made a serious mistake here, both tactically, and on principle. Tactically, because appeasing the GOP is impossible (they're already laughing at him for his "FISA Flip-Flop" even though they agree with his new stance), and on principle, because, as a Constitutional Law professor, he knows the type of damage the passage of a bill like this can engender.
Political expediency be damned. As a US Senator, he's already sworn to uphold and defend the US Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic. Feingold's given him a little time to get his act together. I hope he uses it wisely.

[jcjewell]

1. Without retroactive immunity stripped from the FISA bill before it becomes law, the civil suits against the Telecoms cannot proceed.
2. Without the civil suits against the Telcoms adjudicated before a court, there will be no opportunity to obtain sworn testimony which can help to determine the full extent of the illegal activity involved in the Bush Administration's illegal warrantless wiretapping program. This would, in turn, hamstring any effort to bring criminal charges against Bush Administration officials, and/or the Telecoms.
3. If and when Bush decides to offer a blanket pardon for any criminal activity committed by all parties involved in his illegal warrantless wiretapping program, the cover up will be complete, the extent of damage done to our civil liberties, our Constitution, and the Rule of Law will never be known, and justice for the damage done can never be obtained.
Everything KO said last January in his Special Comment blasting the FISA bill's retroactive immunity provision is as true right now as it was then. That Obama supports this bill doesn't change the facts one iota. I love KO, but in this case Olbermann is wrong and Greenwald is right.

[KDay]

Class action cases only make lawyers rich. The American Public (majority)and the Media allowed Bush to do whatever he wanted. Now all that cowardness has come back to bite everyone in the butt. You reap what you sow. Everyone speaks out about the big bad Bush now, but you didn't for 7 years, "we" did but was ignored. You only listen to "us" for entertainment.

[Tommygun264]

The mainstream corporate media is trying to weaken the progressive movement by pitting one of the clearest, most successful progressive voices in cable news and one of the clearest, most successful progressive voices on the internet against each other, running back and forth between the two saying "he said this about you, so what do you want to say about him". These tactics may work on grade school cheerleaders, but neither Olbermann nor Greenwald are petty or vain enough to allow themselves to be drawn into this manufactured conflict. Frankly, I'm surprised that the people at The Huffington Post would allow themselves to become a party to such an obvious ruse, albeit it unwittingly.

[H.L. Mencken]

why unwittingly-its a news organization

[UnbiasView]

The most successful progressive doesn't even have a top 15 rated show on cable news? Sad.

[Titonwan]

Jon Stewart has a show. You may not have figured out he's a progressive, but he is. The only reason he's still on the air is he's very clever and throws a lot of distractions about (which is why he started the spin off "the Colbert Show" which "caters" to the right wing). They're both progressive shows hidden in sardonic humor. Good thing about mouth breathers (most repugs) is that they're strong, but stupid. I don't know how he's been able to stay on the air THIS long. Jon's a resistance fighter- hit and run. Joke and then change the subject. It works (against stupid people).

[AdLib]

Easy, this is not a conspiracy, it's a conflict between two strong-willed, similarly-minded people.

KO feels dissed and has slapped back at Greenwald but from the posts here, seems that the majority (including me) here think KO is in the wrong this time.

No one's perfect and though I remain a KO fan, it is an ego thing now when someone on the left calls out someone else on the left for not sticking to their principles, even rightly so as in this case.

[jimsey]

The "Quick Poll" on this page re: KO v Greenwald is an absolute toss up. I still like them both.

[H.L. Mencken]

distrust, surreptitiousness ! Old Henry said 75 years ago the world is full of abounding quackeries and the mountebanks to perform them-such schemes are mainly the rattlings of the paranoiria

[clearthinker2008]

I have to disagree. They are doing that themselves.

[GuyFawkes]

That's it, MoveOn'ers, keep tearing Obama down. McDubya loves that you'll be working this weekend for him while he relaxes.

This is why we Dems always lose elections. Because our myopia always drives away the center and the independents.

You can disagree with Obama, but he's trying to win. You can't disagree with that, can you?

[gallonjug]

Greenwald and other bloggers are having the equivalent of a road rage incident, where they've been cut off in traffic by a bad driver and instead of letting it go and being grateful serious damage was averted, they pursue the violator,tailgating and honking and swearing, turning a close-call into a possible fatal crash.

[clearthinker2008]

lol. best description. ever.

[gallonjug]

Do left wing bloggers just want revenge on telecoms?

can somebody please identify a single positive result of massive class action settlements against our telecom industry? can somebody please indicate how those settlements would not in fact result in massive pain and suffering for the workers in that industry, and further hardship for americans trying to make ends meet?

the 4th amendment is back in place. mistakes were made. but to seek revenge for those mistakes rather than seek the most efficient way to get our country back on track is so self-destructive it is almost neurotic. lets "move on".

[truthynesslover]

I dont want revenge want accountability!They were breaking the law by spying on innocent americans.­I want to know WHO they were spying on and WHY!And we know nobody will go to jail,Unfortunatly civil suits are the only redress we have left for this invasion of our constitutional rights being violated.I­t SHOULD cost any company who breaks the law alot its the only way to change their behavior so they wont do it again.

[clearthinker2008]

I want health care for everyone and better inner city and rural area schools. So I'm not going to go bat crap over this issue. I need O to win and Mc Cain to lose, because with him we get 4 more years of our country being bent over by big oil. We need to stay focus on the bigger picture.

[StephenJK]

Absolutely SPOT ON! Who and why ARE the pertinent questions. This is why the subpoenas of the telecom executives that have that info is needed. Innocent Americans is the foundation and who and why are the house built upon it which needs to be explored. Once we figure out those aspects we can move forward. Right now we're in a holding pattern with this and they can go on about their business. Get them in the court, put them in the boiler and figure this out. The highest levels of this administration NEED to be exposed in such a way that ignites a fire within the electorate that can and should keep these bandits in check and hopefully shoo them off and out of office forever. I used to think armed revolution was the only answer. But, egg like this is hard to wash off. Let's hope we get a true representative government to do it.

[Mithrall]

There was at least one telecom company that did the right thing, Qwest, and they were apparently punished for it with the loss of lucrative government contracts. So let me get this straight, there is no penalty for going along with illegal activity but there is one for standing up and doing the right thing and protecting your customer's constitutional rights?

[Brillig]

READ KO's response. There is a loophole - has it been found?

On another note - YOUR PRESIDENT tells you to go to war and kill innocent people in other countries - DO YOU GET CRIMINAL OR CIVIL Charges placed against you when the war is OVER?

SO THE PRESIDENT tells the TELECOMS to spy on American citizens and others - WHY SHOULD THEY BE HELD LIABLE FOR FOLLOWING AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM THEIR COMMANDER IN CHIEF?

You people love lawsuits and litigation more than your own children..­.what the hell is wrong with letting the TELECOMS off the HOOK? (WHICH BY THE WAY IS NOT WHAT OLBERMAN IS SAYING)

IF THEY HAD REFUSED, YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE SAYING THAT THEY SUPPORT TERRORISTS

[Mayoyo]

Democrats do not get elected by running to the left...you have to move to the center to attract the independen­t....any idiot knows that.
It's the GE, stupid

[racom]

Might as well leave this party, mayoyo drank all the repuglicans koolaid!!!

[repearwo]

Odd, this poll allows you to vote for both being right and I did just that. Glenn Geenwald, though he has terrible taste is associates(Jane Hamsher) is one of the best minds that the "progressive" movement (still do not what a progressive is). Obama was right to do as he did and Olberman is right to support that. Greenwald has laid out a cogent argument against the FISA bill and has increased the public knowledge. But Obama is running to lead all fo the people and in less that 9 months will be able to allow legislation that will please Glenn. First he has to get elected.

Progressiv­es/Liberal­s need to stop fighting each other and get on with electing Obama President.

[gallonjug]

Greenwald=Nader
inflexible left wing orthodoxy= fundamentalism
pragmatic nuanced progressive strategy=progress
obama=winner

[racom]

In this case the constitution and your civil liberties = loser!!!

[Zeje]

I have almost given up on politics. Progressives need a voice. Why is everything right of center in this country? Why are progressive voices told to shut up all the time? I'm not sure anymore if I want to vote for Obama (I probably will -- "the better of two evils" --- which i how I"ve voted my entire long life -- and it has gotten this country nowhere -- nowhere -- nowhere. I am discouraged.

[StephenJK]

There is no formula for justice. It's an ever evolving set of circumstances, interpretations and solutions. The one constant is truth.

[Rjmartinelli]

I don't see this as a "War of Words" so much as a mere disagreement.

Why is this being played up into the appearance of some horribly personal feud?

[PaulC37943]

I like both Olbermann and Greenwald; but on this FISA thing, wake me up when the pissing match is over.

[liberalsrheros]

you'll know it's over by the strange clicks and buzzing you hear on your phone calls. ;)