$200-A-Barrel Oil: Envisioning What The World Would Look Like

LA Times:

The more expensive oil gets, the more Katherine Carver's life shrinks. She's given up RV trips. She stays home most weekends. She's scrapped her twice-a-month volunteer stint at a Malibu wildlife refuge -- the trek from her home in Palmdale just got too expensive.

How much higher would fuel prices have to go before she quit her job? Already, the 170-mile round-trip commute to her job with Los Angeles County Child Support Services in Commerce is costing her close to $1,000 a month -- a fifth of her salary. It's got the 55-year-old thinking about retirement.

Read the whole story: LA Times

Comments

[scornflakes]

The sooner, the better. The globalizers' economic regime will fall and we will turn into a 21st century version of the Holy Roman Empire--without the "Holy" and the "Roman" and the "Emperor", of course. ;)

[AnnArky]

Everybody complains, nobody listens.

$5 a gallon gas? Some one get me a tissue because I might shed a tear.

There was a time, once, when this country could/would rise to the challenge of the economic extortion which foreign and domestic energy corporations are using against America. But now, because of Big Oil's vice grip on the resilience of America to overcome this contrived problem we simply sit around and complain while those who are attempting to do something about it are getting squashed by the oil company's efforts to make sure that there will never be an alternative energy source to oil other than oil.

The "blogoshpere" is a dumping ground for whiners and complainers (me included).

[blueshield]

Aww, I think yer better'n that.... Why not get ahold of your Congressperson and tell them to get the expiring tax incentives for solar and alternative energy RENEWED NOW, even if they have to jettison the entire Repug membership to do it. Renewable energy is here, now, put your order in for solar and it will be delivered. We don't have to take it if we don't want to.

[KillTheMessenger]

Actually, if you read my posts you will find that I don't complain. Of course, I don't listen to all that nonsense about the great OPEC/speculator conspiracy, either.

As for what glorious time you are talking about, I don't know. Care to give us a date and occasion?

[vippy]

The only problem is the ENRON LOOPHOLE which was created by Tom DeLay, Richard Lugar and Phil Gramm. Professor Michael Greenberger briefed congress on the effects on the housing, banking and high energy prices and they decided to do nothing.
Let us reverse that and we again will have $ 50 barrels of oil. Forget the rest, drilling, etc.
the world right now is flooded with oil and we are asking for more drilling. How stupid
can we get?

[NYC80]

IF the barrel of oil hit 200 dollars, the United States will fall into a depression, and world war III will start in the shores the persian golf.

[KillTheMessenger]

Not.

[jazzman]

Lots of people dying in their homes during the winter months with no Federal aid or FEMA emergency aid available and President McCain advocating drilling in ANWR. Call it Katrina in the snow.

[thegreatgiginthesky]

The pain we feel at the pump is because big oil has no competition. There is no viable energy source that can knock it off its perch. So why not keep raising prices? People will whine and groan but will in the end fill up their cars and pay what needs to be paid and go to work.

[KillTheMessenger]

Hmmm.... except that you fail to mention that burning oil like crazy in V12s to haul 75lbs kids to soccer training is not a necessity. A V4 can do that just as well.

[thegreatgiginthesky]

People will drive what they drive. 4, 6, 8 or 12 does not matter. The very real fact is that there has been no great event to see the price of oil sky rocket like this. If this was a demand issue we would see gradual increases over time. Not a rapid rise like this.

[newworldman777]

We can blame our auto industry -- as well as the ostentatious nature of Americans -- for the trend of producing gas-guzzling SUVs instead of fuel-efficient hybrids. Experts regularly note that American auto industries opted to go the route of producing the big gas burners, because their producing such an eco-unfriendly product could earn them much more money than producing the small efficient vehicles. They believed that they had to go that route, because unlike Japan, the U.S. auto workers -- members of unions -- demand such high salaries and benefits, including lavish health care and retirement packages. I think that most of us around the country have marveled for years at the high salaries that those workers have been gifted with. I have never earned as much as they do, and I have 6 years of college and an I.Q of over 140. Years ago, the average auto worker was averaging over $120,000 anually, which included their benefits.

It's time to re-invent our auto industry and give those workers a dose of reality. Of course, with the dramatical­ly-falling sales of their SUVs and other gas guzzlers -- along with the accompanying threats of mass layoffs -- they are already witnessing the harsh reality of over-pricing their product, as well as displaying lack of creativity and no foresight.

[Mogamboguru]

The music has onlx just begun to play - read (You must copy and paste the URL to your browser) :

http://www.forbes.com/finance/2008/06/23/crude-biderman-margin-pf-etf-in_tt_0623trimtabs_inl.html

Sky-High Oil Will Make U.S. Go Broke
Charles Biderman, TrimTabs 06.23.08, 7:00 PM ET

Stratospheric crude oil prices precipitated by speculation are wreaking havoc on the U.S. economy.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=19066

Fortis is a large bank and insurer in the Netherlands and Belgium. It took over ABN Amro last year, together with RBS and another bank. Last Thursday, its share lost 17% because Fortis attracted foreign capital. I was shocked when I read the following, which was brought out 4hours ago:

American 'meltdown' reason for money injection Fortis. 28th of June, 9:10 RUSSELS/AMSTERDAM - Fortis expects a complete collapse of the US financial markets within a few days to weeks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/27/cnbarclays127.xml

Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve's credibility crumbles
US central bank accused of unleashing an inflation shock that will rock financial markets, reports Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

If this was the Titanic, I would start heading fo the lifeboats NOW!

[darthdarcy]

I think a collapse is coming too sooner than people realize and in a sad way it's good..

We need to drastically change and this may be the only way...

We need a reorganizing of our economic model and we have to start Nationalizing some of our major infrastructure Energy, Airlines, Health Care to survive, and remember we could have solved the Sub Prime Mortgage crisis by simply pegging those Mortgages at 3% above The Fed Rate or even Prime Rate not to fall below 6.25-6.5%, and then not one dime of tax payer money would have been needed to bail out the lenders or the borrowers.­.and forgiven all penalties 1/2 of which are illegal anyway..an­d also establish Usery Laws again like any Moral Society would...

The Republicans Deregulation, Free Trade, and borrowing for a senseless war and doubling our Debt under Bush has bankrupted America and we've outsourced our very prosperity­...

[LITU]

I agree 100%, and have been denouncing unfettered free market (consumer) capitalism for over a year on this site. Not many takers, though. It's the bogeyman in the closet - The United States was founded on individual growth (greed).

Speaking of morality - the same people who would regulate individual preferences, are the same immoral b*st*rds who turn a blind eye to the passage and implementation of socially immoral laws or abhor regulation that would benefit us all. We've gone off the deep end.

[blueshield]

The addict complains about the price of a fix, and pays it no matter what it costs, no matter what it takes.

The abuser uses as much as they can afford.

The consumer decides how much they want to pay for energy, and finds the best way to meet their needs with the budgeted energy.

The price of oil and gas is determined by how many people are in each of these categories.

[KillTheMessenger]

Indeed, that's economics 101. It is amazing how few people understand that buying gas for more money than they bought it for last week means that it will cost more next week.

[SCG]

Demand can go down, but so can production. The Saudis cut back in 2006 as oil reached neared $50.00 a barrel.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2006/gb20061020_427606.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives

[openhand]

THIS IS NOT ECONOMICS, ITS POLITICS. Your government has decided that it will only invest in oil, because their friends make a huge profit from it. The oil men in Texas dont have the oil anymore but they control its import, essentially they are your dealers. Cheney comes from Haliburton, _Bush oil, Condeleeza from Exxon. Exxon wrote the GOP energy plan and have their biggest profit now.

Your strength as a country is technology, you are 10 years ahead of everyone else. The problem with greentech is that it cannot be monopolised, no big contracts, no big friends.

The criminal part is that they have blocked all alternatives, and when at last they are forced to accept electricity over oil for cars, they will go to nuclear, coal, hydrogen, again because those are the big corporate players. This is not a free market, they are using your taxes to develop alternatives that will keep you dependant.

[KillTheMessenger]

"The problem with greentech is that it cannot be monopolised, no big contracts, no big friends."

???? "Greentech" is highly monopolized. Please google "Monsanto biofuels" and follow some of the links. Then look at the reality in the solar and wind generation markets. This is as much a big players game as any other forms of energy.

I wouldn't buy too much into Americans being the victims of some conspiracy here. All you have to do is to look at what's in the garage of an average home and you can see that rampant consumerism is to blame. These people have been buying crap at an exponential rate for the last four decades. Over the past decade they have been using credit cards to finance their appetite for more "stuff" than they can afford. It's not innocent people being dupes. It's dupes raging in the shopping mall and on the car dealer's lot.

[leduck]

i live in L.A. county
my whole family lives in southern california
we have lots of freeways and drivers
we have metrolink trains but they don't link to much
we have an expensive subway in L.A. that links to nothing too
we do have a lot of buses
but there's way too much spawl over here

in short..., i live in the worse part imaginable
i'd rather be in san francisco or manhatten but what can i do

only my oldest brother and i know what's really going on
and the rest of my family is in denial
they think we're nuts

got to drive to kaiser now
moms in hospital

and mterolink is too far a drive to bother with

[johnmorgan]

Hard to believe Los Angeles had excellent public transport until the 1950s when the highway lobby shut down the city's streetcars.

[castlerider]

Unbelievable to think of what our world would be like had Al Gore won. Or rather, not been ripped off...

And here we are, actually standing at the precipice of an absolutely unnecessary war with Iran.

So hard to believe W and his henchmen haven't been ridden out, tarred & fearthered, on a rail.

[KillTheMessenger]

American value voters are stupid. Period.

[castlerider]

I see a lot of value in impeachmen­t... No matter how late. even on the last day. Deny the sob his pension. Use it to help the families he's destroyed.

[bmermaid]

Is it too late for the tarring & feathering?

[larry278]

Tar is a byproduct of oil. It might be cheaper to try them for treason, fimd them guilty & execute them or surrender them to an Int'l Tribunal to be tried for war crimes & if found guilty confined to prisons outside the USA.

[AntonBursch]

well, with the Obama is a phony line going around on the internet from the LEFT of all places... we may very well be in for another 4-8 years.

[wolf58]

In the forties this country ramped up like no other, we turned our factorys into a war building machine, thousands of tank, planes and ships were built, what seemed overnight were made. The Manhattan project gave us the weapon to defeat Japan. Now if this country could do that then I would say we could do the same in comming up with better and cleaner energy and put in place quickly. Between Wind, Solar, Hydrogen, geothermal, Bio fuels (non Corn), Nuclear if we can do it safely and figure out what to do with the waste, we could show the world what America is made of and at the same time in doing so create new jobs, and restoring the ecomomy, but the best part is we could then tell all those who hold oil over or head to shove it. All it takes is leadership and the want to do it. We already have the need.

[leduck]

hydrogen is not a primary source of energy

[thegreatgiginthesky]

There is no reason why it cannot be a primary source of energy. It is one of the most abundant elements on the planet.

[KillTheMessenger]

We are still very good at building weapons. But that's almost the only thing of importance we are good at.That and flying into space. But flying into space is very similar to building weapons, so there is no real surprise there. In the solar space we are lagging. Not so much technologically as politically. In wind we are catching up. But were it really counts, in conservation, we are standing in our own way. It's not that we don't know how to do it, it's that we collectively refuse to. There are, of course, millions of people who get it. But as a nation we are years away from getting it.

[darthdarcy]

We're gonna see Oil go to $170 a barrel before or by 2009...and if Bush attacks Iran is will go to well over $200.00 easily $250.00 possibly higher at times, and the more there are reports like Seymour Hersh's article of a likely attack upon Iran the higher oil will go you'll see Monday it will cross $140-142..­maybe hit $145.00 on it's way to $150.00 where they want to push it obviously.­.

In some ways at this point I am resigned to the fact that the trend will continue, and I am good at trends always have been, so there is every likelihood a major crisis and potential collapse is eminent...­only months away..

Energy is to valuable an asset to be subject to market manipulation it effects everything and if we collapse see a national and even partial world depression that may be what it takes to finally Nationalize our Oil Industry and All Energy..ot­herwise the market manipulation and the corporate profit motive will drag us down and pull us under..unb­ridled capitalist greed will be our undoing and run...

[toinfinityandbeyond]

There isn't any energy crisis. Just read Lindsey Willaims book " The Non-Energy Crisis", or Google his name and watch the film.

[KillTheMessenger]

Agreed. We have a waste crisis. Gluttony leads to acid reflux.

[leduck]

you're right
there is no energy crises
there's lots of it all around
but there's quite a diference between diffuse energy
and concentrated energy

there is an entropy crises for sure
light sweet crude is in decline
visit your local gas station

and this is just the beginning

[robinhood2]

No one that I know in LA uses public transit. But as the price of gas keeps rising, more will be forced to use it or walk or stay home. Most people simply don't earn enough to be able to shrug off unlimited increases in gas prices. It's hard to believe, but at one time, LA supposedly had a fairly good public transit system (before 1945?).

[KillTheMessenger]

Riding the bus is not so bad. I do it almost every day. And riding the train is actually pretty good.

[Paul]

I live in the LA area and I take Metrolink everyday, 100 miles round-trip.

Best thing I have ever done. The price of a monthly pass is now about $100 less than the cost of gas for my 27 mpg pick-up truck. But the big plus is that In don't have to drive the unpredictable freeways and the train is almost always on-time.

I think mass transit can work in LA. And if it can make it here, it can make it anywhere.

A decent mass transit system would eliminate the need to even own a car. The transportation paradigm of the US is obsolete - ask yourself: why should you have to buy a car just to get to work and buy groceries? The cost of owning and operating a car will soon be beyond the reach of the average American.

But a decent mass transit system will liberate us from car payments, insurance, repair costs and the necessity buying expensive oil from those who don't especially like us.

[robinhood2]

I agree. I have survived over 30 years in California without a car, living near a rapid transit station (to get to my former jobs in SF) and within walking distance of several grocery stores. I was even able to take early retirement. My former boss used to drive into work every morning to downtown LA even though she could have taken the bus without too much inconvenience.

[KillTheMessenger]

Last night we had dinner with a friend. We paid $156 including taxes and tip. That's about as much money as we would spend on fueling our Prius in a month if gas were to be $7/gallon. Currently we are spending less than $90/month on gasoline.

One dinner, one month of driving. Or five weeks of commuting on the local trains an buses. My commuter pass costs $120/month.

What's my point? My point is that if you are spending more than the price of a good dinner for three people on your monthly commute, you are driving the wrong car, live in the wrong place or need to find someone to share a ride with.

[iheardthisbefore]

Boy, have you REALLY MISSED what this article is REALLY saying.

[KillTheMessenger]

Not at all. The article is one of a series of articles about whiners who don't want to believe that the party is over.

Very smart people have been warning for decades that this would be happening. They were painted as doom sayers. Now look where that brought us. Remember what they were saying about Jimmy Carter's energy politics until like three weeks ago?

Give me a break, iheardthisbefor. I have it up to here to listen to people with a Porsche and an RV whining. If you can afford it be proud to have them and pay whatever they cost to operate. If you can't, get rid of them and drive something that you can afford. Take the bus and the train. But whatever happens, do not whine about your own mistakes. It does not look good.

As for city planning..­. please go to any European city or some in Asia and South America to learn how it's done right. You had 30 years to get your affairs in order. You were proud to defy reality. Now that it is kicking you in the lower behind, be proud of what you did (or did not do) and live with the inevitanble consequences.

[Sundialsvc4]

Answer: stop using Dollars.

Buy oil in whatever currency you want ... like, "your own." No longer do you have to denominate the transaction in United State Dollars.

Poof ... "borrowing dollars from yourself" does not mean anything more than running a printing press all night to make expensive stove-fuel (just ask the Germans from the 1920's...)­.

And maybe, just maybe, that might be the most-important step toward actual world peace that we've made in two dozen years. You can't ignite World War III if you can't pay for it.