Obama Rebukes MoveOn In Patriotism Speech

Barack Obama used a speech on patriotism to rebuke MoveOn.org's "General Betray Us" ad last year:

Caricatures of left and right . . . most evident during our recent debates about the war in Iraq, when those who opposed administration policy were tagged by some as unpatriotic, and a general providing his best counsel on how to move forward in Iraq was accused of betrayal.

The line was a reference to the MoveOn.org ad in advance of General Petraeus' testimony last fall.

Obama also voiced his opposition to any attacks on John McCain's patriotism:

For those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country -- no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides.

Some have read the line as an implicit criticism of Obama supporter Wesley Clark's comment, in reference to John McCain's commander-in-chief credentials, that "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Obama later sent out a statement saying he "rejects" Clark's comment.

Comments

[Hopefor08]

Obama needs to get a thicker skin and stop attacking people and organizations that support him. McCain is blasting away saying that Obama can't be trusted, and Obama is saying don't criticize dear McCain. This is acting a bit too out there for me. I will attack McCain with everything I have. You can't let McCain smear and lie away while you stay in la la land.

[FZliveson]

TheOur founders tried (in vain) to demonstrate that Governments are inherently NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
3-houses of government as checks and balances. The electoral college so that mob-rule (genuine democracy) would not emerge. When Barack Obama says that he will
NEVER question another person's patriotism, he is entrenching himself and the whole concept of blind obedience. That and his waffling to the FISA bill makes my suspicions cringe.

[TheProverbialMan]

I agree of the FISA bit, that stuff really bugs me. But I think the "never questioning another person's partiotism" is less a statement of blind obedience, than it is one of taking the whole "partiotism" ideal off the table. Who is Barack Obama to question another person's patriotism? He doesn't know the whole story, why should that be an issue? Everyone who runs for office has to love their country, it shouldn't be an issue. We have nothing to gain by engaging in a "red, white and blue" arms race.

[geobushono]

AS long as the Bushes, Clintons, and the Obamas don't have their kids in the mix, then betrayus is just fine.

[bmsrosmuc]

I am a member and contributor to MOVE ON, but i did think they went to far with the betrayus ad. Personal attacks against a general carrying out his mission was WRONG! They should have called out the President that sent the general in to congress to report on the President's agenda. I support moveon, as I do many other activists and politicians, but I certainly wouldn't think that means I need to agree with their every more.

[Bettysdad]

Exactly what is wrong with criticizing a general?

You can criticize the President, but not someone that works for him?

[syllepsis]

my contention is, you can festoon a general with insults all over the front page of your magazine- as long as your publication is not one of those allegedly 'liberal' sources of unpatriotic slander like the NY TImes.
Consider, for example, this:
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_10_08/cover.html
and savor the hypocrisy.(The Buchanan-inspired folks wisely went for alliteration instead of nursery rhymes. But I guarantee you, its superior literary qualities were NOT the reason for its flying under the radar.)

[Ramirez]

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a general. Or a president, or senator, or whomever.

However, MoveOn crossed a line when they attacked the patriotism of a general officer who had spent his entire life in the service of our nation. Before he even spoke a word to Congress the Progs at MoveOn were claiming he was a traitor who was "betraying" the nation. That's too much hate and too much poisonous rhetoric to ignore.

[e2008usa]

Did "moveon" change attitude because of ONE political strategy you actually don't understand. NO¦! they will not change... they are steady and let Obama pursue his program... because. If everyone of us should take the lead of the DEM program then We"d not have a organized campaign ... it would be an anarchy just like the Hillary campaign (everybody was commanding). The fact that we write blogs does not give us a status of commander in chief...NO... We send out opinions ... then the Media plays the rules games.
If You want to make the decisions of his ADENDA ¦Become a active politician otherwise¦ Give credits to your leader in order for him to protect our common interests. You can always join McCain then if he doesn't prioritize your idea then you would jump back to Obama (like a ping pong boll). NO, STAY STRONG in your position until the end of a race in order to be a WINNER... never get out in the middle of the race because McCain is looking for those losers. Another example¦Even Not Gen. Clark did change his position (for his remarks) and We all know that he is right¦ but Gen. Clark knows that what he did helped even if our Leader had to follow another MAP (program) right now.. I"m almost certain that you"d be surprised if Gen. Clark becomes Obama VP. I"ll not ¦ It"s called politics¦ You"ve to be smart to understand that. TRUST Your LEADER for Your Future.

[lbrillante]

I think it is stupid for Senator Obama to reject Wesley Clark's statements. Clark is speaking the truth but that's beside the point. Senator Obama cannot go around being making statements on every remark people in politics make and frankly he is giving too much leniency to Senator McCain. I am currently so disappointed with Senator Obama anyway that I don't know if it matters. I will vote for him but that's about all and I am sure that's all he cares about. I no longer think of him highly as I once did. He seems much more like politics as usual to me now.

[UnbiasView]

I don't think Wes Clark made any sense and don't see why he would play the "experience" card when he is promoting Obama considering all he has to go on is being a community organizer..

When McCain was 20 year old he was fighting for this country, when Obama was 20 he was smoking pot trying to figure out what he was going to do.

[TellitLikeItIs]

UnbiasView: So were/are millions of other 20 year olds! ! You have nothing real to contribute, so instead you talk about Obama "smoking pot" at age 20. Get a clue---- millions of people still smoke pot! Most people who talk about that like it's a mortal sin wouldn't think twice of getting wasted on booze and behaving like an idiot. Or putting the keys in the car and driving home after a night out at the bar. Let's try to stick to the real issues. The vast majority of people in this Country were not "fighting for their Country" when they were 20. And fighting for your Country at age 20 doesn't automatically qualify just anyone to be President.

[Ramirez]

Every time a Democrat goes after McCane's military service it makes 0bama look smaller.

[TXSassy]

Ibrillante, I feel your pain. He's slithering away right before our eyes. I had so much confidence in him. E-mail him/his staff..He really does listen and evaluates our concerns and I can speak from experience on that. He's losing his "brand" as Arianna said.

[Independent voter]

Will the real Obama please stand up!

Too much waffling and triangulation cost Clinton the election - and now Obama is following the same road.

[Rao]

Amen. I will probably vote for O but it would be just like I did in 2000, 2004 holding my nose. This guy is a good speech maker and a superb con, another Clinton with tan. I am sure he would go back on NAFTA, IRAQ withdrawl just as he did on FISA, probably privatize social security.
While criticizing lobbyists, he is taking large contributions from big Banks, depends for his advice on Robert Rubin's disciples. He has no loyalty to anything. When Hillary said anything could happen, we thought she was talking about something terrible but she could have meant that O will show his true colors. I was afraid Hillary will take us to war on Iran and so voted for O. But there is no gaurantee that O will not do the same.
Is it possible to get Hillary back at the convention? Is it too late?

What did General Clark say that is not true? He did not insult McCain but he was just saying the obvious that McCain's judgment is poor. To accuse Clark of doubting the patriotism of McCain is putting words in his mouth. Obama is swift boating the General.
What a shame? Moveon.org's criticism of General Petraus is mils compared to what General Fallon said about him. The general is a careerist, he would lie steal, and cheat for his personal advancement. Fallon knew him very well. So he must know something.
So recall Hillary the better of the two evils.

[clancy11]

And Betray Us they all did! Shame on Obama for kicking his supporters.

[e2008usa]

Think again... Did "moveon" change attitude because of ONE political strategy you actually don't understand. NO¦ they will not change... they are steady and let Obama pursue his program... because. If everyone of us should take the lead of the DEM program then We"d not have a organized campaign ... it would be an anarchy just like the Hillary campaign (everybody was commanding). The fact that we write blogs does not give us a status of commander in chief...NO... We send out opinions ... then the Media plays the games.
If You want to make the decisions of our interests ¦Become a active politician otherwise¦ Give credits to your leader in order for him to protect our common interests. You can always join McCain then if he doesn't prioritize your idea then you would jump back to Obama (like a ping pong boll). NO, STAY STRONG in your position until the end of a race in order to be a WINNER... never get out in the middle of the race because McCain is looking for those losers. Another example¦Even Not Gen. Clark did change his position (for his remarks) and We all know that he is right¦ but Gen. Clark knows that what he did helped even if our Leader had to follow another MAP (program) right now.. I"m almost certain that you"d be surprised if Gen. Clark becomes Obama VP. I"ll not ¦ It"s called politics¦ You"ve to be smart to understand that. TRUST Your LEADER for Your Future.

[e2008usa]

PART 2.. IT'S ABOUT FAITH.
A children"s faith in what their parents taught him/her¦ is based on a belief in their credibility¦ until or unless the day when the children"s belief in their parents" credibility is replaced by a even stronger belief, while sometimes what we"ve learned from our parents will serve as a filter through which personal development and teaching must be processed or evaluated. If you understand this way of reasoning by assuming that a child has limited spectrum of knowledge at birth, then you understand that that faith is the fundamental basis of all authority knowledge one has.
This is the reason why Faith is what you and I can rely to because faith is trust.
But remember that Smears often consist of attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors
In this Campaign Smears are effective in diverting attention away from what"s matter to you.
ASK TO YOURSELF ¦ WHICH CANDIDATE ISSUES YOU TRUST ON¦ THEN YOU KNOW WHAT"S IMPORTANT TO YOU. -TRUST ON YOUR ABILITY TO GROW UP

[e2008usa]

PART 1 - IT'S ABOUT FAITH.
I am calling to your belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that has not been proven because this is actually the feedback you wish. I"m talking about Obama"s leadership rights and his role as a guide and Leader for people moving into a great experience of such expected reality.
It"s about trust, belief, or Hope in order to involve a concept of future events and fair outcomes.
The great challenge is that in this election 2008 we face a wide spectrum of opinion but the true belief can only arise from your faith, because reason and evidence cannot lead to truth.
Because for some peoples, reason is the opposite of faith and for others, faith is prior to or beyond reason. Remember how you and I grew up ¦ in the concept of development of our knowledge as a children, You or Me as a child typically hold what we"ve learn from our parents as credible, in spite of our lack of sufficient knowledge as a child for to establish such evident credibility in the spectrum of our world. That leaves us to our parental teaching and become a foundation of trust upon which future knowledge is built in us.

[Probus]

Obama needs to do whatever he and his campaign think is needed to win this election. Like Olbermann said today in his excellent special comment we need to make sure Obama takes the oath of office on Jan 2009 and not some republican like McCain. We dems need to pull together behind our chosen candidate. If we want to reverse the damage of the last 7 years we must support him and make sure McCain is never sworn in as the next POTUS.

[iblis]

Obama was real quite when Move.On did his dirty work for him in rallying the far left against Clinton and thus helping Obama wrap up the democratic party nomination. Now he is pretending to move to the centre, in order to dupe independents into voting for him.

[BaileyWo]

No, he "rebuked" MoveOn as a matter of political necessity for their now infamous ad hominem attack on General Petraeus. They called him General Betrayus.

Now, I'm a Yellow Dog Progressive and a pacifist but I have the minimal military education to recognize that what he is doing in Iraq is a complete turn-around from the swash-buckling, storm-trooping, kick their donkeys and take names, high-testosterone load for bustin' broncos at the Rumsfeld Rodeo-This-Aint-No-Fiasco-This-Is-My-Horse Travelin' FeelGood Machine for War Crimes perpetrated by that idiot Tommy Franks who really did betray us, although not on purpose but only because he has unresolved masculinity issues that mirror those of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice. Yes, I said Rice. But then, this isn't a full page ad in the New York Times representing The Democratic Party, for god's sake.

I haven't a clue why the propaganda machine of the Bush Administration hasn't geared up and explained Petraeus' counterintelligence bona fides. Nor have they explained how counterinsurgency warfare is different from conventional gitty-up, shot 'em in the a**. It's about winning the people. Too late of course, but that's what it's about.

[Bettysdad]

I was just about to post that I'm truly sick of Obama running away from every controversy, or distancing himself from something somebody somewhere might be offended by.

Now he's admonishing MoveOn.

MoveOn did a lot to put Obama where he is. If we had supported Hillary, she would be the nominee, and eventually the next president.

Obama's thrown ME under the bus.

I will not vote for the lesser of 2 evils. It's been 36 years since I've been excited about a candidate. And I'm done.

[indypete]

Okay, vote for the greater of two evils... does that make any sense?

[BaileyWo]

He never said the name MoveOn. The headline here did. And I can tell you that it was probably written by someone whose nose is still running while trying to impress everyone with the nuances he has the great intelligence to discern in what he projectively identifies as Obama's subtle insinuations.

What Obama said, in a number of words, if I may paraphrase, was that he rejected comments that impugned the honor of General Petraeus through use of immature and crass ad hominem.

He didn't say who is accountable for such republicanisms [my label for them] but he did imply, quite wisely, that he wished to distance himself from strategies that have made folks like Grover Norquest and Karl Rove infamous. Hopefully, MoveOn will take the hint and get someone to change their diapers so he and Michelle can pick them up again and burp them.

This was in no way intended as a devastating smack down of MoveOnDotOrg; however, the controversy persists because members of the press would have it so. He simply wants to MoveOn now. ;>)

I've suspected on a number of occasions that the headline editor here sometimes lapses into his own deep sea world 1000 leagues under -- "Nuance Lost," by G. M. S. Smart staring as Captain Nemo.

Before you join the Luddite Party of Spelunking Evangelicals For Desert Fathers and Ostrich Farmers, would you at least go back and read the article and this time ignore the headline?

[Probus]

Well said.

[Gma11]

Exactly. I've tried to find the terms posed in the title in the speech, but can find them nowhere. This headline seems to be a blatant lie.

[Ramirez]

0bama's meaning was clear. While the term "MoveOn" was not mentioned, he used the phrase "Caricatures of left and right" and he specifically highlighted the "betrayus" ad.
****
"Caricatures of left and right . . . most evident during our recent debates about the war in Iraq, when those who opposed administration policy were tagged by some as unpatriotic, and a general providing his best counsel on how to move forward in Iraq was accused of betrayal."
****
Betrayus Ad = MoveOn.
The HuffPo Headline is accurate.

[Bettysdad]

Uh, Bailey?

There was a congressional vote to condemn MoveOn for the Betrayus ad.

And it was completely legit, we just got a bunch of scared rabbits that won't stand up to the military we pay for.

[Ramirez]

Yes, you WILL vote for the lesser of the evils and 0bama knows this. No matter how much MoveOn types complain, in the end they are political junkies and they have to stay in the game. And they are in the bag for 0bama.

Now he is working to win enough moderates to carry the election. It is smart politics for him to distance himself from the hard left.

[lotuslike]

Oh for gawd's sake---get a grip, people! Senator Obama is not rebuking anyone, despite the sensational interpretation and headline of this article. Stop letting press get your drawers in a wad by framing what he is saying and then jumping on him based on their definition.

Obama---from the beginning--- has consistently been speaking his truth, about how he would run his campaign, and about the myriad issues that we are dealing with in this country as a result of a miserably failed leadership. He has long-maintained, in word and deed, that he wanted to operate above the fray and stick to issues. Despite the non-issue attacks of multiple others during the primary, he managed to get it done. Today's long-planned speech went even further in expression of this consistent ideal.

What I like about Obama is he will tell the truth...and sometimes I'm not always liking the content, but I appreciate the truth and the courage to step out and tell it. I wish the folks who came up with the headline for this article had been more truthful--- and less into truthiness.

[BaileyWo]

You just gave a concise definition of a straw man. And a good job you did. It's not even Obama's straw man. It's MoveOn's gift of a straw man -- a bona fide red herring -- to the neocon press and Fox News. And they are tearing that scarecrow up plum up! They are kicking it, setting it on fire and stuffing it into the circus cannon for the midnight show. They'll blast that dummy across all three rings and forget to put a net up. Then every elephant from Tallahassee to Colorado Springs will come out of their cages to romp and stomp that poor sucker into the circus sand. And they'll sell tickets as long as anyone's willing to cheer and wave Republican pom-poms. "That Obama! He so mean! He dissed a patriotic general.....what his name?"