Military See Presidential Race Through Own Lens

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NANCY BENAC | 07/ 1/08 06:01 PM | AP

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Jim Morin, a West Point graduate who served as an Army captain in Iraq and Afghanistan, poses with a 2003 photograph of himself meeting with Afghan village elders in Khost, Afghanistan, during an interview with the Associated Press at his home in Arlington, Va., Thursday, June 26, 2008. Morin said he thinks Obama has the most "comprehensive solutions to complex problems" in Iraq and Afghanistan. "I have a lot of respect for McCain," he said. "Everyone in the military is going to tell you that." But he adds: "I don't think he has anything new to offer. His mind-set is really stuck maybe in the Vietnam era, and the conflicts we're facing now have nothing to do with Vietnam." (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)

WASHINGTON — Brandon Ziegler served two tours in Iraq and wears a bracelet inscribed with the name of an Army buddy who never made it home. Jim Morin saw action in both Iraq and Afghanistan and has lost several friends to the war in Iraq, the latest just a month ago.

Both say their choice in the 2008 presidential election is clear: For Ziegler, it will be John McCain; for Morin, it will be Barack Obama.

Those viewing the presidential race through the lens of military service can see it entirely differently: The desire to quickly get out of Iraq is balanced against the hope to see the country stabilized; respect for one candidate's storied military history is weighed against another's relative youth; concern about the war's drain on the U.S. Treasury is measured against the wish for expanded benefits for new veterans.

Sizing up the candidates as the nation prepares to celebrate Independence Day, retired Command Sgt. Maj. Ronald Friday in South Carolina laughs and predicts "it's going to be an interesting summer." Put him in the undecided column.

McCain, with a family tradition of military service and his own history as a Vietnam prisoner of war, holds natural appeal for members of the military and for veterans. An AP-Yahoo News poll conducted last month, found that veterans favored McCain over Obama 49 percent to 32 percent, while the two candidates ran about even in the population as a whole. Three-fourths of veterans in the survey thought McCain would be a good leader of the military, compared with one-fourth who thought likewise of Obama.

Nonetheless, dissatisfaction with the course of the war under President Bush and with the treatment of veterans returning home has given Obama, who did not serve in the armed forces, an opening with military voters and veterans. So does his appeal to younger people.

That Obama attracts support from some in the military is evident in dollars and cents: Among people who have donated at least $200 to a presidential campaign this election cycle, Obama has collected more than $327,000 from those identifying themselves as military personnel, while McCain has collected $224,000, according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission data by The Associated Press.

But it is in the voices of recent veterans and, to a lesser extent, of those still serving in the military, that the McCain vs. Obama debate comes alive _ although most active-duty personnel are loath to air their views publicly because they are discouraged from mixing in politics.

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Friday, who retired last year after serving as the top command sergeant major at Fort Jackson in South Carolina, said he doesn't want either candidate to take his vote for granted, based on his race or his career.

"I don't want anyone to think that because he (Obama) is of the African-American heritage that he automatically has my vote, or that McCain will get it because I was in the military," said Friday, who is black.

Friday, 49, added that he understands what McCain meant when he said the United States could have troops in Iraq for 100 years, but he doesn't necessarily support the statement. Still, he predicted, "We will be in Iraq until death do we part."

Such talk rankles Sgt. Kenyon Ralph, 24, of San Diego. Ralph, a Marine reservist who served in Iraq twice, is a member of Iraq Veterans Against The War, and is backing Obama.

Ralph, who once was a registered Republican and twice voted for Bush, says he gradually turned against the war and now can't bring himself to vote for someone who supports keeping troops in Iraq.

"What did he say? One hundred years or something," Ralph said of McCain. "We've got five down and 95 more years to go."

Sgt. Maj. Brent Dick, a 35-year-old career soldier stationed at Fort Bliss in Texas, hasn't decided whom he'll vote for in November, but he agrees with McCain's stance on Iraq.

"I favor staying there until we are done with our mission," said Dick. He said the candidates' plans for Iraq will be one deciding factor in his vote but the weakening economy also is a huge concern.

Dick, who served in Afghanistan, said McCain's military service and his time as a prisoner of war are pushing him toward the senator from Arizona.

"I think that means something for their character," said Dick, interviewed as he and his 8-year-old son got ready to play golf on a recent afternoon at the Fort Bliss golf course.

Not far away, standing outside his off-post home after work, Darrell Warren, a 41-year-old staff sergeant at Fort Bliss, said he's also on the fence, but leaning the other way.

"I'm a Democrat," said Warren, who served three tours in Iraq. He said that while the war will be an issue for him in picking a president, he doesn't see military service as a must.

"They don't necessarily have to have served in the military to know about it," he said.

Ziegler, interviewed in the library at Kutztown University in Pennsylvania after attending a night class, sees three reasons to vote for McCain entwined in the Republican's military service: He connects to McCain as a war veteran, believes it makes sense during wartime to have a president who's served, and says McCain's POW history speaks to the quality of his character.

As for Obama, says Ziegler: "He's new and he's young. He's got what seem like new ideas. I don't think now's the right time for that, being that we are in Iraq."

By contrast, Morin, whose 10 years in the military included four years as a West Point cadet, thinks Obama has the most "comprehensive solutions to complex problems" in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also said he was disappointed by McCain's opposition to an expansion of the GI bill that would offer full military scholarships for those who serve three years in the military.

"I have a lot of respect for McCain," says Morin. "Everyone in the military is going to tell you that." But then he adds: "I don't think he has anything new to offer. His mind-set is really stuck maybe in the Vietnam era, and the conflicts we're facing now have nothing to do with Vietnam."

Richard Topping, a former Army legal officer who spent more than five years on active duty, said McCain's military record is impressive, but he finds the senator's open-ended commitment to Iraq troubling.

"I care far more about the economy, which has me leaning left this election," said Topping, who works as a Justice Department attorney. "Time for new people and new ideas here in D.C."

McCain has plenty of brass speaking out for his candidacy: While active-duty military personnel are expected to keep out of politics, more than 100 former generals and admirals have endorsed the Republican candidate.

Richard Kohn, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who has studied the gap between military and civilian attitudes and culture, said that while members of the military, particularly the officer corps, in recent decades have favored Republicans, the enlisted force is much more politically balanced. And Kohn said there are signs that "the shine has probably worn off the Republican brand to some degree among the military," in part because of discontent with Bush over foreign policy and veterans' issues.

In what may be one sign of the trend, individuals who identified themselves as members of the uniformed services have donated 38 percent of their dollars to Democratic candidates, party committees and leadership PACs so far this election cycle, compared with 22 percent during the 2000 campaign overall, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group that tracks political campaign money

___

Associated Press Writer Kimberly Hefling, AP database editor Troy Thibodeaux and AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius contributed to this report from Washington. Also contributing: Associated Press Writers Susanne Schafer in Columbia, S.C., Chelsea Carter in San Diego, Alicia Caldwell in El Paso, Texas, and Kevin Maurer in Wilmington, N.C.

WASHINGTON — Brandon Ziegler served two tours in Iraq and wears a bracelet inscribed with the name of an Army buddy who never made it home. Jim Morin saw action in both Iraq and Afghanistan and ...
WASHINGTON — Brandon Ziegler served two tours in Iraq and wears a bracelet inscribed with the name of an Army buddy who never made it home. Jim Morin saw action in both Iraq and Afghanistan and ...
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- Merersu I'm a Fan of Merersu 4 fans permalink
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Our military has been treated like disposable plastic toy soldiers by a petulant, power mad child! It is criminal what Bush has done to our Armed Forces and with their decimation came the destruction of our economy. It isn't remotely surprising that our soldiers are now flocking toward Obama. If it is your job to defend the nation you love, to be the sword of the greatest country on earth, wouldn't you rather be wielded by a man possessed of a generous heart, hope, and the ability to reason, than by a man trapped in time and stilted by a way of thinking that got us in this mess to begin with? It sounds overly dramatic and maybe it is, but all I know is that I believe that Obama will consider every life placed in his hands as president and not just American lives. Because it's so easy to forget the innocents that are too often killed in "strategic actions."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 AM on 07/02/2008

I don't get some of the comments in the article, I respect all who serve but really you vote for the guy because he was in the military, or don't change because we are at war, yes a war that was wrong in the first place. That that man supported, I am glad to some keeping an open mind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 AM on 07/02/2008

the soldiers are sadly pawns in a losing game...civilians and the naiive public are the true victims of this war. i hope they use better judgement in voting than they did with the current Commader in Chief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMf9oBpvI0o

I wish America was about peace. How's that for change?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 AM on 07/02/2008
- darthmaul I'm a Fan of darthmaul 22 fans permalink

Let's see, vote for McCain and stay in Iraq another 100 years (exaggeration probably 20) or vote for Obama and possibly get home some day, alive, to see my family. It's a simple decision for the military.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 AM on 07/02/2008
- kenfoh I'm a Fan of kenfoh 2 fans permalink

I am a veteran of OEF and I support Barack Obama 100%. John McCain may think that he has the military vote all wrapped up but he has another thing coming. It is not because we do not respect his service- of course we do. However, he has made all the wrong choices leading up to this election and he lost my vote (which was firmly in place) in doing so. Barack Obama represents our Nation's best and brightest hope of getting on track again. I think people are actually underestimating what a Barack Obama Administration could accomplish. Being a member of the military does not qualify you to be the President.... and while being a former POW is most certainly an honorable thing, that does not make a person better suited to be the leader of this great Country. That is fact. Military people know this-why don't so called "average" Americans?? They consume MSM and Neocon BS like addicts...and never ask why.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 07/02/2008
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 67 fans permalink

As a mental health clinician, I would be as worried about one who spent 7 years as a POW as this country should have been at voting for a recovering alcoholic in 2000. I have worked with far too many recovering alcohol and drug addicts to not realize a sizeable number merely change one god for another, but don't change the underlying behaviors that led them to the addiction and being put in a stressful position is more likely to bring out their pathologies big time. And if you don't think a man who was under the power of others for every need for 7 years is not likely to assume the mentality of the prison guard upon gaining the most powerful job in the country you are being naive. From even his peers' reports of some of his behavior in the Senate, I think we all have cause to worry about his potential for misuse of power unless he has had a lot of therapy. One president out of touch with his inner demons has been enough, thank you. It is the dirty little secret no opponent can bring out, but it should be talked about at length and publicly by mental health professionals throughout the country. I don't want McCain's hand anywhere near the famous box carried with him at all times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 AM on 07/02/2008
- karela I'm a Fan of karela 105 fans permalink

Dr. David Butler is career Navy and is a highly decorated combat Navy veteran pilot. He was in the same POW camp as McCain for all five years, plus three years before McCain came. He was also at the Naval Academy with McCain and has known him for over 60 years. In the March 27, 2008 issue of "Today In the Military" he wrote a detailed explanation of why he believes that a McCain presidency would be a danger to the military and the country. Butler received two purple hearts, two legion of merits, two bronze stars and two silver stars. McCain received a silver star and a purple heart for which Butler honors him. Among other things he points to McCain's violent and explosive temper and says he would not want him near, "the button". (McCain has had that temper all his life. His mother has told stories of him getting so angry as a small child that he fainted fairly often from his rage.) Butler also says that there were 600 men in that camp of whom 95% were tortured. Many others were offered the chance to go home. Read what Butler has to say about his concerns if McCain became president. Please send this article to all military personnell who you know. The link:
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 07/02/2008
- darthmaul I'm a Fan of darthmaul 22 fans permalink

Great link karela, you are very well informed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 AM on 07/02/2008

I followed the link but I'm having a hard time finding the article you mentioned is it possible for you to be more specific? TIA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 AM on 07/02/2008
- Daly I'm a Fan of Daly 19 fans permalink

Just wondering if ay of these fine young soldiers were affected by the stop loss rule and I'd like to know their thoughts on the GI benes, general mitary support and their view on how the war is going.

the article had a very generic feel; as for the brass going Cain what else they gonna say - job suicide to admit differently even Cain says that he voted for shrub but bragged about not voting for shrub in ear shot of others.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 07/02/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 643 fans permalink
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I wonder if MkKain will actually vote for MkKain

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 AM on 07/02/2008
- imsosure I'm a Fan of imsosure 29 fans permalink
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of course they're giving more to Obama, there are some very rational and intelligent people in the military

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 07/02/2008
- lthuedk 1 I'm a Fan of lthuedk 1 70 fans permalink
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The military sees what a McBush will do. Enough play acting and working to defeat the G.I.Bill. The Corporation IS the enemy when it turns away from our finest, our soldiers, both in and out of uniform.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/a_hero_at_walter_reed.html

Occupation is not honorable, particularly when it is the result of an illegal invasion. I think the soldier sees a bleak future under another national socialist like Traitor Dick and his sock puppet. It's time to end one chapter and begin anew.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 AM on 07/02/2008
- aubrey8 I'm a Fan of aubrey8 5 fans permalink

looks like the banks gave more to obama too....special low interest rates the rest of us don't get.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 07/01/2008
- 4wehttam I'm a Fan of 4wehttam 14 fans permalink

Whose the one that's got 7 homes (in the USA) and didn't pay for taxes on at least one of them? Whose the one that has a credit debt of $500,000? Whose the one accepting money from hundreds of lobbyists?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 07/02/2008

And who has Phil Gramm as an advisor, who's in the mortgage meltdown up to his eyeballs? And who wrote campaign legislation specifically with a loophole for himself so that he could continue to use his wife's private jet?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 07/02/2008

"McCain has plenty of brass speaking out for his candidacy: While active-duty military personnel are expected to keep out of politics, more than 100 former generals and admirals have endorsed the Republican candidate."

I have a problem with this statement..the author was careful to go from McCain supporter to Obama supporter and back.. he leaves this statement hanging there.how many "brass" are supporting Obama? Even if it is less, it should be noted..

As an Active Duty member of the military, I am supposed to keep politics out of my discourse.. but I am also a US Citizen. so I will not let my voice be suppressed...I support that "elite" candidate... because I want the smartest person in this campaign to be our next POTUS.. Obama has shown this... even Wall Street thinks that Obama is the best deal... they are willing to live with the tax redistribution because 10K on them doesn't effect them as 4K .. I am pretty much in the middle of that..but I can do my part...as much as I complain about my taxes... I can save and keep a roof over my head, unlike many others.. then I will do my part.
Obama said that we will need to sacrifice... we have sacrificed in all wars before, except for this one... instead we have reduced ourselves to the greatest debtor nation in the whole world.. I hate to owe anybody anything when it comes to money....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 PM on 07/01/2008
- mari2JJ I'm a Fan of mari2JJ 43 fans permalink

NO!!!! We have not reducesd ourselves to the status of debtor nation. BUSH HAS managed that all on his own. This insane war he has going on in Iraq is draining our treasury quickly and sad to say, we are not through now nor for years to come because the war was so horrilbly mismanaged. The President who was in the military has definately screwed the entire nation and apparently military service was useless for him. I know bright, well educated, patriotic military, Bush is not one of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 AM on 07/02/2008
- hoodrat I'm a Fan of hoodrat 26 fans permalink
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I think that you in the service of your country has more rights than most to speak your mind - let er rip! And the rest of America was told to go about their normal lives, so they wouldn't see the caskets coming home - speak loud! So the sheep lulled by the MSM and fearmongering can hear through the semen clogging their ears! Semper Fi

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 AM on 07/02/2008
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I'm a member of the military as well--we're sworn to defend the Constitution, not the government, not the President-the Constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 07/02/2008

"McCain has plenty of brass speaking out for his candidacy: While active-duty military personnel are expected to keep out of politics, more than 100 former generals and admirals have endorsed the Republican candidate."

I have a problem with this statement..the author was careful to go from McCain supporter to Obama supporter and back.. he leaves this statement hanging there.how many "brass" are supporting Obama? Even if it is less, it should be noted..

As an Active Duty member of the military, I am supposed to keep politics out of my discourse.. but I am also a US Citizen. so I will not let my voice be suppressed...I support that "elite" candidate... because I want the smartest person in this campaign to be our next POTUS.. Obama has shown this... even Wall Street thinks that Obama is the best deal... they are willing to live with the tax redistribution because 10K on them doesn't effect them as 4K .. I am pretty much in the middle of that..but I can do my part...as much as I complain about my taxes... I can save and keep a roof over my head, unlike many others.. then I will do my part.
Obama said that we will need to sacrifice... we have sacrificed in all wars before, except for this one... instead we have reduced ourselves to the greatest debtor nation in the whole world.. I hate to owe anybody anything when it comes to money....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 07/01/2008

Thank you for your service and for a thoughtful comment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 07/02/2008
- 305Rider I'm a Fan of 305Rider 51 fans permalink
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A lot of us feel the same way man. On another note it's true, while active-duty personnel may express their opinions, we can't identify themselves as active-duty military or risk punishment. Gotta love that UCMJ.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 07/02/2008
- 4wehttam I'm a Fan of 4wehttam 14 fans permalink

Thanks for you service and also for supporting "the smartest person in this campaign."

Monica Hussein O.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 07/02/2008

Thank you for your service and if you are in the Middle-East, please stay safe! =]

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 07/02/2008
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 67 fans permalink

I agree with you. Last night I saw a show that demonstrated how the Buish tax plan due for being phased out in 23010 has given the following amounts of benefits to the following groups of people: The lower income have gained $250 a year. The middle income $50, 000 dollar salary family gained about $1700 a year. The person in the top 1 % gained over $239,000 a year and the group inthe top .1% were receiving astronomical amounts. Of course with the massive rates of inflation of prices for food, gas, health, the gain has become a deficit for the lower two groups, hasn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 AM on 07/02/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 353 fans permalink
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The indoctrination that many of these soldiers are subjected to by their superiors have their priorities all mixed up.
That's why polls of the troops still show a majority actually believe that S-a-d-d-a-m had a hand in bringing down the towers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 07/01/2008
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 131 fans permalink

How their minds are going to be completely fuddled once they find out the truth. The thought of how we train our boys to kill children and families for "no reason" other than oil is a fact they will have to live with forever. What a torture on the mind that will be. I so feel for them when they learn the truth. May God help them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 07/02/2008

Link?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 07/02/2008
- lthuedk 1 I'm a Fan of lthuedk 1 70 fans permalink
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http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

There are many links. The soldiers get their news from Limbaugh and other derelicts, so there's a slim chance the soldiers (aka, investments) ever catch the light while on active duty.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/bush_lied_we_died.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 07/02/2008
- 305Rider I'm a Fan of 305Rider 51 fans permalink
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That I thinik may depend on the branch. From my own experience serving in the Navy we never got that indoctrinated. However from my interaction with soldiers & marines some of them are really indoctrinated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 07/02/2008
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 67 fans permalink

Over my lifetime I have seen many who went to basic training with fairly moderate views about a lot of things and came out as if they had been brainwashed that whatever their country does in a-okay and the only good president is a republican one. Fortunately one of my brother's IQ's probably equaled the rest of his entire platoon + drill sergeant put together and he came back unblemished (that was when the draft was in effect) and as cynical as hell, but usd his medic trainin to save hie own father's life, so felt the experience had one meaningful effect. Nowadays not only do they get that my country right or wrong, but also the evangelical religious training and services as well instead of just being handed a Bible or appropriate relitgious tract if a religion was stated and told that they had to attend the chapel service of their choice

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 07/02/2008
- hoodrat I'm a Fan of hoodrat 26 fans permalink
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moderator - you're shittin me right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 AM on 07/02/2008
- rowzeer I'm a Fan of rowzeer 13 fans permalink

You're right. General Smedley Butler said that he too could not see the truth (or should I say the lies) until he left active duty. The military have to be indoctrinated or else they'd go mad with what they're expected to do in war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 07/02/2008
- jeplanet I'm a Fan of jeplanet 40 fans permalink
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I find it very telling that the soldier in this article that supports McKain fought in Afghanistan.
What's going on in Afghanistan is completely different than what's going on in Iraq, as much as the B*sh administration tried to make it the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 07/01/2008
- Gatormouth I'm a Fan of Gatormouth 24 fans permalink
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"MILITARY PERSONNEL GIVING MORE TO OBAMA" That would be because he gives more to them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 PM on 07/01/2008
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Republicans are failing to realize something about our Troops.

They are a part of the same generation that the Republican Party platform has ignored for the last two decades. Gen-X ers and Millenials. They know the issues just as much as the rest of us in their generation do and just like the majority of us , they overwhelmingly support Senator Barack Obama .

This notion that our Military only supports the Republican Party may have worked with another generation. But today , with a brand new generation giving their lives for this country in Iraq and Afghanistan and the technology to constantly be in the know with regard to politics ?

Not so much !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 07/01/2008
- ebanks84 I'm a Fan of ebanks84 131 fans permalink

Yeah, but don't tell that to the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 AM on 07/02/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 30 fans permalink

don't be fooled... Obama is getting support... but they are not overwhelmingly supporting him

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 07/02/2008
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