Obama Vows To Expand Bush's Faith-Based Programs

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First Posted: 07- 1-08 08:15 AM   |   Updated: 07- 9-08 05:12 AM

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** UPDATE BELOW: OBAMA CAMPAIGN REJECTS AP REPORT **

CHICAGO — Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups and _ in a move sure to cause controversy _ support some ability to hire and fire based on faith.

Obama was unveiling his approach to getting religious charities more involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks Tuesday in Zanesville, Ohio, at Eastside Community Ministry, which provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services.

"The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to solve alone," Obama was to say, according to a prepared text of his remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "We need all hands on deck."

Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.

The Democratic presidential candidate spent Monday talking about his vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads with constituencies that are traditionally loyal to Republicans and oppose Obama on other grounds.

But Obama's support for letting religious charities that receive federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite a protest from those in his own party who view such faith requirements as discrimination.

Obama does not support requiring religious tests for recipients of aid nor using federal money to proselytize, according to a campaign fact sheet. He also only supports letting religious institutions hire and fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign, who spoke on condition of anonymity to more freely describe the new policy.

Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, criticized Obama's proposed expansion of a program he said has undermined civil rights and civil liberties.

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"I am disappointed that any presidential candidate would want to continue a failed policy of the Bush administration," he said. "It ought to be shut down, not continued."

Bush supports broader freedoms for taxpayer-funded religious charities. But he never got Congress to go along so he has conducted the program through administrative actions and executive orders.

David Kuo, a conservative Christian who was deputy director of Bush's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives until 2003 and later became a critic of Bush's commitment to the cause, said Obama's position on hiring has the potential to be a major "Sister Souljah moment" for his campaign.

This is a reference to Bill Clinton's accusation in his 1992 presidential campaign that the hip hop artist incited violence against whites. Because Clinton said this before a black audience, it fed into an image of him as a bold politician who was willing to take risks and refused to pander.

"This is a massive deal," said Kuo, who is not an Obama adviser or supporter but was contacted by the campaign to review the new plan.

Obama proposes to elevate the program to a "moral center" of his administration, by renaming it the Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and changing training from occasional huge conferences to empowering larger religious charities to mentor smaller ones in their communities.

Saying social service spending has been shortchanged under Bush, he also proposes a $500 million per year program to provide summer learning for 1 million poor children to help close achievement gaps with white and wealthier students. A campaign fact sheet said he would pay for it by better managing surplus federal properties, reducing growth in the federal travel budget and streamlining the federal procurement process.

Like Bush, Obama was arguing that religious organizations can and should play a bigger role in serving the poor and meeting other social needs. But while Bush argued that the strength of religious charities lies primarily in shared religious identity between workers and recipients, Obama was to tout the benefits of their "bottom-up" approach.

"Because they're so close to the people, they're well-placed to offer help," he was to say.

Kuo called Obama's approach smart, impressive and well thought-out but took a wait-and-see attitude about whether it would deliver.

"When it comes to promises to help the poor, promises are easy," said Kuo, who wrote a 2006 book describing his frustration at what he called Bush's lackluster enthusiasm for the program. "The question is commitment."

Obama also planned to talk bluntly about the genesis of his Christian faith in his work as a community organizer in Chicago, and its importance to him now.

"In time, I came to see faith as being both a personal commitment to Christ and a commitment to my community; that while I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work," he was to say.

UPDATE: An Obama campaign official told the Huffington Post that the AP's claims about Obama allowing hiring or firing based on faith are false. From a portion of Obama's speech today:

"Now, make no mistake, as someone who used to teach constitutional law, I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe this partnership will endanger that idea - so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them - or against the people you hire - on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples, and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we'll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work."

The Politico, meanwhile, describes Obama's new plan not as an expansion of Bush's Faith-Based Initiative, but as an effort to tear down what Bush created and establish a new program with a new set of goals:

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) slammed President Bush's faith-based program as "a photo-op" and a failure on Tuesday, and said he will scrap the office and create a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships that would be a "critical" part of his administration.


Obama, unveiling a plan to overhaul and expand Bush's faith-based program during remarks at a community ministry in Zanesville, Ohio, said the White House Office of Community and Faith-Based Initiatives - which Bush founded during his second week in office - "never fulfilled its promise." [...]

Reaching out to evangelicals who are non-plussed by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Obama declared: "I still believe it's a good idea to have a partnership between the White House and grassroots groups, both faith-based and secular. But it has to be a real partnership - not a photo-op. That's what it will be when I'm President. I'll establish a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships."

"The new name will reflect a new commitment," he continued. "This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization chart - it will be a critical part of my administration."

** UPDATE BELOW: OBAMA CAMPAIGN REJECTS AP REPORT ** CHICAGO — Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's ...
** UPDATE BELOW: OBAMA CAMPAIGN REJECTS AP REPORT ** CHICAGO — Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's ...
Featured Comments:
Viper
Its suppport for faith based government supported chairties... Thanks but no thanks. The headline is correct. The controls will not work. We could not even keep religon out of the Justice... more >>

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photo magicmary
Hey, I hang with the Wiccan crowd (solitary practitioner) and see nothing wrong with Christians, Pagans, Buddhists, Atheists wanting to get in on the social service thing and Obama is going to have... more >>

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- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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"plans to EXPAND President Bush's program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups"

Hey Obama, you know SCIENTOLOGY is a religious group, don't you? You had better rethink this one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 07/01/2008

Well, this is dissapointing to say the least. Faith-based anything associated with government is just plain wrong according to those of us who really believe in separation of church and state...there are no degrees of separation, its meant to be complete and total. Someone should take all this government associated faith-based nonsense and take it to the Alito, Scalia, Roberts to see if the Constitution applies.
Shoot, I'm still for Obama but not quite as pumped for real REAL change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 07/01/2008

Well. It seems to me that most faith-based organizations will not be meddlesome. They will act as part of the community, helping people in the community. But let them start interfering like many dominionists and fundamentalists would, then I would not be in favor of this. In other words, if Johnny is going to get a detention, the whole hall of kids should. SO, if faith-based orgs do the golden rule, and keep their religion to themselves, OK by me. But I am watching them.... ;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/01/2008
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How can a religious institution "keep their religion to themselves" when it is the very PURPOSE of such entities to proselytize?

NO TAX DOLLARS to ANY religious institutions.

PERIOD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 07/01/2008
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exactly

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 07/01/2008
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It is not necessarily the purpose of churches to proselytize.

In this area there is a registered 501c-3 charity which is a consortium of 9 churches.
All the work is volunteer.
The charity provides household goods and furniture to the poor, on the recommendation of the appropriate local government agency.
There is ZERO proselytizing, and ZERO religious content to the work the charity does.

If this volunteer group did not exist, none of this important and necessary work would be getting done.

You need to stop being such an absolutist.
It only makes you appear rigid and inflexible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 07/01/2008
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There's STILL no reason that ALL of this good work can't be done by a PUBLIC organization.

Sorry.... I AM an "absolutist" when it comes to the separation of church & state.... as were our founders.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 07/01/2008

"You need to stop being such an absolutist.
It only makes you appear rigid and inflexible."

Amen brother (or sister).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 07/01/2008
- loki I'm a Fan of loki 134 fans permalink
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Going for the Christian Kansas Gov as a VP, and now this??? What is this clown really about? Telecom immunity, and we dont know yet who else got immunity in that bill . Bush and his posse was up for immunity in the first draft of this the other year, and now promises more tax payer money to be used in faith based organizations. I dont know about all of them, but many of them in my area are not using the money to help people, they are building new churches and getting more things for themselves and not to help people unless they are closely connected to the church. In fact, they had a news story not long ago how many of these faith based groups receiving federal tax money were requiring people to join their congregation before they would hand them food or other help they may need. US tax money so the Churches can force the poor to join their church, and then they demand donation from them. Isnt America Just the greatest place on earth to live!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 07/01/2008

I don't believe in god either but faith based programs are a pretty reasonable way to appeal to a wide variety of cultures in this nation... except for the non-believers. we'll have to stick with our feng shui and soy milk instead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 07/01/2008
- andvoodoo2 I'm a Fan of andvoodoo2 122 fans permalink
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I will be starting a VooDoo based child care center here in New Orleans. Where do I apply for government funding?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 07/01/2008
- ema I'm a Fan of ema 23 fans permalink
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I'm starting a Satanic nursing home here in NYC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/01/2008
- tbone99 I'm a Fan of tbone99 98 fans permalink

LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 07/01/2008

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/grants-catalog-index.html

But you might need a business plan. Giving away child care is going to be expensive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 07/01/2008
- andvoodoo2 I'm a Fan of andvoodoo2 122 fans permalink
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We'll fund it with our tax exempt church.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 07/01/2008
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Better yet, where is the funding for all the gay churches? Gays have plenty of community outreach and they have many churches. Why is the money only being funneled to conservative churches?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 PM on 07/01/2008
- sclucie I'm a Fan of sclucie 9 fans permalink

Where are you getting your information from? Did Obama say "I am going to only funnel money to conservative churches?" I'd be pretty surprised.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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so you're OK with the Church of Sci.?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 07/01/2008
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No.... but they're no loonier than any OTHER religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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word

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 07/01/2008

But they do win the award for Best Use of Volcanos in Theological Writing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 PM on 07/01/2008
- BardEric I'm a Fan of BardEric 10 fans permalink

LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 07/02/2008
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"a pretty reasonable way to appeal to a wide variety of cultures in this nation"

why is that? I don't agree

there is no reason that you have to add a silly superstition to a social relief organization to make it more useful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 07/01/2008
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Bingo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 07/01/2008
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and for the record

I don't drink spy milk or give two craps about feng shui either

I'm just one of the few rational ones in this lunatic society that recognizes religion for what it is, complete hogwash

I also recognize the fact that religious "moderates" are more of a problem than the hardcore believers, because they are the ones that prevent us from marginalizing those that should be marginalized.

the people that think they sound enlightened by saying, "oh, I believe in a higher power but don't believe in organized religion are the biggest fools on the planet

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 07/01/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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"pretty reasonable" ???

Scientology, anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 07/01/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 266 fans permalink
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That is an extreme example, scientolgy is not considered by very many to be part of what might be called mainstream religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 07/01/2008
- ema I'm a Fan of ema 23 fans permalink
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And who is going to judge what is mainstream and what isn't?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 07/01/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 266 fans permalink
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I don't know, who judges what is mainstream media and what isn't?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 07/01/2008
- Sparhawk I'm a Fan of Sparhawk 14 fans permalink

Since the Government will be giving tax dollars to them...I'm thinking They would have a say......

The hits just keep on coming...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 07/01/2008
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lol at "spy milk"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 07/01/2008
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I'm totally convinced liberals like attack liberals more than attacking conservatives. HuffPo does dozens or articles about McBush and his right wing policies and all I see are a couple of hundred posts at the most. Go vote for Nader or be a PUMA or whatever. You people make me sick. Again 0bama has been reaching out to all constituencies this election from the beginning. He said Democrats make the mistake of not reaching out to people of faith. God forbid 0bama give money to people feeding the poor. The fact is since the Republicans and Clintoon gutted welfare the number of poor people have greater needs and have no recourse but to ask charities for help. I don't like the fact that too many charities have religious affiliations, but that just means the seculars among us are not doing our jobs to help the needy. All I hear is but but but it's the first amendment. What's unconstitutional about helping the needy?

I'm already making my plans to emigrate somewhere else if 0bama loses this election because it proves there is not intelligent life left in this country. In fact I think I'll vote for myself since that's the only person I agree with 100% of the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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"In fact I think I'll vote for myself since that's the only person I agree with 100% of the time."

I agree 100% with that. :-)

Kquarks, don't take the back and forth here so hard. So many tr0lls posing as "outraged liberals" and many true Dems legitimately frustrated with 7 years of insanity and, like me, under the impression (and desire) that change to it would be dramatic instead of incremental.

Lots of adjustment periods needed when dealing with a new player like 0bama, ask Hlllary supporters about that. We didn't expect them to flip to 0bama supporters overnight and I don't think it's fair to expect the idealistic and optimistic Dems vested in 0bama (as I have been) to flip overnight to the realization that 0bama does represent change but not drastic and immediate change, more incremental.

Remember unity? Remember what we have to lose and how futile it is if we attack each other for our conflicting views of the candidate we're all voting for anyway?

By the time the debates begin and 0bama makes his acceptance speech at the convention, we will all be energized and supportive of 0bama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 07/01/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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"You people make me sick."

Fine. Go away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 PM on 07/01/2008
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You are exactly the type of person I am talking about. A malcontent complaining about the Democrats over and over again and not a peep about complaining about B ush and McBush. You are either a tr0ll or worse are being played by the tr0lls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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I have only seen one tro// say "He just lost my vote"

nobody is saying they are not voting for 0bama

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 07/01/2008
- Kubenzi I'm a Fan of Kubenzi 2 fans permalink
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that is really disingenuous of you kellygirl.i asked you to look at again at my profile and huffpo didnt print it when i submitted it.you can read my posts from two weeks ago and see that i was a very die hard obamma supporter.there is no trolling here.you are painting yourself as one yourself at this point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 07/01/2008
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I know but I'm still ticked off. For one thing it's not like people can say they did not see this coming. 0bama and Hilllary were going to reach out to religious voters more this year. The expenditures on FBI are tiny in the grand scheme of things. I get mad when you even have Arianna fueling the flames. 0bama never said he was only running to be president of progressives. That was the change he was talking about. But just because he is not as progressive as some people think does not make McBush an alternative. The whole I'm voting for Nader thing is just a tr0ll tactic, because in the end very few votes will go to him. It's just frustrating. For once I would like to see liberals get together and try to win this thing for once not feast on our own. Believe it or not as much as I disliked Hilllary because of her campaign I would still fight for her just as hard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 07/01/2008

KQuark, you are right on the money. If I wasn't already voting for 0bama, I think I'd vote for you too.

I really am stunned at some of the the comments on here. There are many faith-based organizations that are not out to control or change the minds of others. They truly want to help their fellow man. I work in New York City and everyday I see people who need help and are in dire straits - sick old men, homeless mothers and children, people in wheelchairs who can't work. What the heck is wrong with helping some of these people out? It's just me me me, even among some liberals who are supposed to care. It's my way or the highway. It's absolutely depressing.

I understand that there should be separation between church and state, but I also understand that, as I said, people need help, especially now, and if people in faith based organizations are willing to volunteer their time and show a person whose down on their luck that someone actually does care, then more power to them. And if our country helping out our fellow Americans who need help and compassion is wrong, then all I can say is it's just one more d-mn thing that 's wrong with the United States.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 07/01/2008
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If they're willing to help those in need by volunteering.... why wouldn't they be JUST as willing to do the SAME for a PUBLIC institution?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 PM on 07/01/2008

I believe there are people who would volunteer for public organizations (and I also think those types of organizations should be assisted as well). I just don't happen to have a problem with giving money to help out people regardless of whether the organization that's helping is faith based IF the program is monitored and regulated as 0bama suggested. Maybe I'm naive, but I think it can be done. I don't claim to be an expert, but it's how I feel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 07/01/2008
- sclucie I'm a Fan of sclucie 9 fans permalink

Thanks for the post. I try to keep in mind that only 5% of Americans post - and the ones who post here seem to have no connections - to a family - to people in need - to anything or anyone other than themselves. The only issues that have really moved people are a) the internet and b) faith. Has everyone forgotten everything else? Like health care (57 million Americans - some who will die), the economy (people are losing their homes - that means they will be homeless) a war that is costing what? a billion a month? education? Nothing matters except what impacts these people as individuals. Ask them what they've done in the community - and you will get no response. Ask why this site makes these the main issues and you'll be censored. And there are countless suggestions that people would vote for Nader. It is astounding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 07/01/2008
- Acebass I'm a Fan of Acebass 15 fans permalink
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Obama. You can lose my support as fast as you got it. I'm still an Edwards Democrat. This is why we need a veto proof congress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 07/01/2008
- TXfemmom I'm a Fan of TXfemmom 208 fans permalink

I think that the Dems and progressives need to open their eyes BEFORE THE CONVENTION and pull Edwards back in, stop attacking Hillary and SAVE THE PARTY AND THE NATION.

Obama has made some simply horrible and TERRIBLE MOVES and he seems to have forgotten that SUPER DELEGATES CAN CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT WHOM TO SUPPORT UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY VOTE AT THE CONVENTION.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Fellow 0bama supporters, can I ask you to put aside your initial feelings for a moment to consider this:

I was initially as pissed_off as the majority here by about this but I've reconsidered that this may be rather brilliant on the bigger chess board.

It may make more sense to reduce and reign in this program instead of killing it which would instantly energize the evangelicals and send them running back to the GOP.

This could have a welcome result of helping the needy AND permanently crippling the GOP (an ironic reversal). If evangelicals stop voting in a block for the GOP, they can't win national elections and it will be time for them to join the Whigs in the history books.

There better be strong oversight and enforcement to eliminate churches that proselytize which will shrink the program to just those that can separate proselytizing from helping the needy...if none can as many here suggest, the program eliminates itself.

Change must sometimes be incremental, too sudden of a change could send the pendulum of public opinion swinging back hard and fast to the comfort and familiarity of the status quo or the ways of the past.

If this is in fact such long term thinking, it could be very smart and visionary while not crossing the government/state line in the end.

Please take this possibility for a test drive and see if it doesn't make you reconsider your opinion on this as I have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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AL - I fully understand exactly what he's doing and why

I am the first to say it's the most brilliant campaign I've ever seen

I know that all the OG 0bama supporters will still vote for him
might not donate, but will obvs still vote for

I just would prefer a little principle here

for example, as to the Clark issue, it would have been far more impressive if the senator had chastized the media for completely twisting and spinning the words of Clark
which happens to be a real problem here

and if you, for one moment, believe that the ReThugs are NOT going to paint the Dem candidate as weak on terror or anything else, you are wrong. No matter what he says or does on FISA, faith-based issues or campaign style -- they will call him weak - now they will also call him flip-flopping panderer

oh, and they will still call him -- horror -- black

I would prefer he stand on principle, period

the media will keep giving MkKain a Free Pass and will keep sensationalizing 0bama, period!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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I really agree with you and your stand on principle. I do feel as you do, I am very disappointed in 0bama's following of his advisers' "status quo" approach and letting down his core supporters by "moving to the right" and abandoning his commitment to oppose telecom immunity, supporting gunmania and even supporting the precedent of the death penalty for non-fatal crimes.

But here we are, with the weenies advising him to tack to the middle/right.

However, the campaign advisers will not have the influence they have now once he's president.

So, we do have to make the best of whatever we're not able to change through our protests. We have a candidate that does support many of the issues we believe in but is compromising on others right now.

What's the alternative? Someone who shares none of our positions on issues and is prepared to bury this nation in debt, recession and war.

Still, it doesn't mean we roll over and cover our mouths when it comes to standing up to 0bama, McCaln or anyone else who's on the other side of an issue.

I haven't contributed to 0bama since he began this campaign to the right, guess I'm waiting for him to stand up strongly again for the things that are important to me, then...we'll see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 07/01/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink

Great post my friend thank you. I guess I'm a little more riled up over the actions of the past two weeks, but overall I'm where you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 PM on 07/01/2008
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Standing on principle is a great way to lose the election.

He is working to broaden his appeal, which is necessary.

Those who whine here are demanding ideological purity---just like the right-wing does.

The irony is thick.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 07/01/2008
- Maezeppa I'm a Fan of Maezeppa 26 fans permalink

Is it your premise that Obama, by saying he will EXPAND faith-based funding, is aiming to REDUCE it?

PS: It's "rein in", not "reign in"...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 07/01/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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"reduce and reign in" ???

I believe the plan was to EXPAND.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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No, that's the BS headline, read the article.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 07/01/2008
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Look the last thing we need in government is another contrarian that immediately overturns everything from the previous administration. Sure the vast majority of what B ush did was bad, but this faith based thing while I hate the name and original mindset for doing it has really help some people and is not that expensive. When Clintoon and the Republicans gutted welfare a true gap existed in assisting people in need. This fills in some of those gaps. The worse thing B ush did was assume everything Clintoon did was wrong, in fact that's why I blame B ush for 9/11. If Bush had followed Clintoon's policies on terror I doubt 9/11 would have happened.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 07/01/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 266 fans permalink
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Yes, AdLib. But how many times in the past week have you had to say something like this? I.e. at first you were pissed off or disappointed at Obama's latest, somewhat unusual move, etc. but then later you understood, etc. It is happening about once a day now, I mean the odd moves he is making. They are coming thick and fast. I feel the way you do about most of them (I read all your posts) but there is going to come a time when it will be one odd move too many, don't you think?

I think it's the NUMBER of them that some people find so upsetting, others find this or that inidividual one, the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 PM on 07/01/2008
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>It may make more sense to reduce and reign in this program instead of killing
>it which would instantly energize the evangelicals and send them running back
>to the GOP.

>This could have a welcome result of helping the needy AND permanently crippling
the GOP (an ironic reversal). If evangelicals stop voting in a block for the GOP,
>they can't win national elections and it will be time for them to join the Whigs in the
>history books.

Hear hear!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 PM on 07/01/2008
- zann I'm a Fan of zann 11 fans permalink

Christianity in its good form is about service. Obama's old church that is now under a bus was about service. My mother's downtown church was surprised when a poor immigrant community grew up around it, and they now do everything they can to help them, including spending my once-upon-a-time inheritance there. Any service-oriented community organization with energy and ideas to help others ought to be eligible for funding, regardless of religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 07/01/2008

Not only is Obama a flip flopper to the right, now he's mixing up religion with federal dollars. The guy is a complete sell out. Wake up, Democrats! You've had your "feel good" moment with him, and now it is all about whatever is on his plate today. Dump him! Draft Hillary, or Al. Anyone!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 PM on 07/01/2008

WHAT DO YOU WANT OBAMA? GET HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE VOTES? EVEN JESUS COULD NOT PLEASE EVERY SOUL AND YOU ARE NO JESUS. YOU STARTING TO LOSE ME.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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why do so many people not understand this has nothing to do with "belief in G0d"?

one can believe in G0d and refuse to subscribe to Religion Inc.

one can even subscribe to religion and refuse to see it influence Govt. Policy

but, yes, please feel free to paint the Constitutionalists as devil-worshippin' 'leetusts

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 07/01/2008
- BEHM777 I'm a Fan of BEHM777 13 fans permalink
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They don't think kellygrrrl. People are so intellectually LAZY.

BEHusseinM777

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 07/01/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 584 fans permalink
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I agree kellygrrl and BEHM777: The knee-jerk reactions to this and other similar articles makes it more and more evident to me that critical thinking skills are seriously lacking among many, but this is exactly what is required to understand, as much as we possibly can, the many nuances of our political landscape and of this particular political process that will lead to the election of our next president.

But when it's all about ME, I guess there's little incentive to think beyond the scope of our limited world view.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 07/01/2008
- sclucie I'm a Fan of sclucie 9 fans permalink

Still Rise? That was a knee-jerk reaction. And it was all about you - if it wasn't you'd do a little research - it doesn't take much to find out what has worked and was has worked among the people who are most desperate in this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 PM on 07/01/2008
- Mekarri I'm a Fan of Mekarri 33 fans permalink
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Kellygrrrl, I have always enjoyed your posts. I think you are right. I guess I just see religion as evil for the most part. People use it to hurt other people. People uses religion to justify their hatred and prejudices. But you are right, one can believe in g0d and refuse to subscribe to Religion Inc. but for the most part it doesn't work out that way. I will still vote for Obama and long as mcbush is running that will never change. Thanks to you and others on this post I have started looking at what Obama is doing in a different light. He has to get the religion nuts on board as well because without them he will have a hard time winning. I would hate to be him, right now because I am sure he is catching it from all sides.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 07/01/2008
- doglove I'm a Fan of doglove 37 fans permalink
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Maybe he can get holy Joe LIEberman to be his V.P.

HE's a democrat too, right?

I saw this coming 19 months ago.

Only the democrats could take such a golden opportunity and eff' it up.

We had such good candidates and had to chose the worst. Thanks HuffPo, he probably couldn't have won the nomination without your daily adoration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Why is it every anti-0bama idjit registered on HuffPo thinks saying "I saw this coming" will somehow make them look intelligent for the first time?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 07/01/2008

"I told you so" always follows "I saw it coming."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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which is usually followed by "hufftards" or "0bamabots"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 PM on 07/01/2008
- shep1900 I'm a Fan of shep1900 6 fans permalink

Well deserved, unfortunately. Senator Obama's have been incapable of give-and-take or anything resembling positive, incisive exchanges. I'm not a fan of Senator Obama's, but up until this week, it was his intolerant supporters who went out of their collective way to divide the Democratic Party.

Now, of course, Senator Obama is busy doing that all by himself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 07/01/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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and some form of draft Hillary. ugh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 07/01/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 584 fans permalink
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Which is then followed by, "I will no longer vote for Obama."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 07/01/2008
- shep1900 I'm a Fan of shep1900 6 fans permalink

We were intelligent the entire time, but the Obamabots were too starry-eyed and naive to see it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 07/01/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 584 fans permalink
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Obviously, not intelligent enough to know that Lieberman is NOT a Democrat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 07/01/2008

Too bad he's a member of the Democrat party, eh? Or are the Democrats not intelligent to know that he's not one of them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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He's an Independent, not a Dem, Mo-ron.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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The broken clock theory of intelligence, yes, a broken watch is correct two times a day but there still is nothing working inside it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 07/01/2008
- shep1900 I'm a Fan of shep1900 6 fans permalink

As ever, loving the unity and hope which predictably spews forth from Senator Obama's supporters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 PM on 07/01/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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WE?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 07/01/2008
- ylpatriot I'm a Fan of ylpatriot 7 fans permalink

Wow ... anything at all but .. spelling out clear cut how he will help cure the ails of our economy... exactly what he plans to do about Iraq Gas Prices and the immediate relief this country needs ... and i dont mean more drilling in our oceans and spoiling are natural resources... seems like we get the same ole "fiddling while rome burns" song and dance ... blah blah blah from both candidates !!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Get your fingers out of your ears and quit humming the GOP theme song ("We Are The Losers, My Friends") and you might have heard his solution to swiftly lower gas prices.

0bama stated that he would end the Enron loophole allowing speculation in the energy and oil markets which a majority of financial experts estimate will drop gas prices between 25% - 50%.

Boosh and McCaln oppose this, they would rather have people suffer than lower oil company earnings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 07/01/2008

Lieberman is an Independent.

The Democratic candidate from Connecticut was Ned Lamont.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 07/01/2008
- NAOMA I'm a Fan of NAOMA 3 fans permalink

NO, NO, NO.
No religion in the government.

You are losing me, Obama, on this one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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I am amazed at all the people who do not understand that one can believe in higher power and spirituality while not:
a. subscribing to Religion Inc.
b. feeling comfortable with religion in government

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 07/01/2008
- ema I'm a Fan of ema 23 fans permalink
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I get that very well!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 07/01/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Kelly, actually seems like the majority of posts here are vehemently opposing the government giving funds to churches. Don't you think?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 07/01/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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yes, obviously, HERE, we are the majority, but I'm speaking in general

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 07/01/2008
- sclucie I'm a Fan of sclucie 9 fans permalink

thats because the huffington post has methodically deleted a score of posts which had a position that was completely different - mosty written by people who have actually worked for change - on the streets. it's not that the population is skewed - it's that this site is censored. unless you mention the fact that it's censored - usually they keep those, but not always.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 07/01/2008
- aristippe I'm a Fan of aristippe 13 fans permalink

I guess some people believe that the State derives it power and purpose from God's Law. Nothin new.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:06 PM on 07/01/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 83 fans permalink
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God's Law?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 07/01/2008
- SgtLucifer I'm a Fan of SgtLucifer 13 fans permalink

Which law school did god attend?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 07/01/2008
- andvoodoo2 I'm a Fan of andvoodoo2 122 fans permalink
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Thank you for saying it best.

I believe in God. I pray every day. I am very private where my beliefs are concerned.
That said, I do NOT believe my government should give preferential treatment to religious organizations. I do NOT want religion to play a part in my government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 PM on 07/01/2008
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