Justice Department Considers Racial Profiling For Terror Prevention

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First Posted: 07- 3-08 08:28 AM   |   Updated: 07-11-08 05:12 AM

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The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other racial and ethnic groups.

Law enforcement officials say the proposed policy would help them do exactly what Congress demanded after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: root out terrorists before they strike.

Although President Bush has disavowed targeting suspects based on their race or ethnicity, the new rules would allow the FBI to consider those factors among a number of traits that could trigger a national security investigation.

Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons _ like evidence or allegations that a law probably has been violated _ to investigate U.S. citizens and legal residents. The new policy, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press, would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.

Among the factors that could make someone subject of an investigation is travel to regions of the world known for terrorist activity, access to weapons or military training, along with the person's race or ethnicity.

More than a half-dozen senior FBI, Justice Department and other U.S. intelligence officials familiar with the new policy agreed to discuss it only on condition of anonymity, either because they were not allowed to speak publicly or because the change is not yet final.

The change, which is expected later this summer, is part of an update of Justice Department policies known as the attorney general guidelines. They are being overhauled amid the FBI's transition from a traditional crime-fighting agency to one whose top mission is to protect America from terrorist attacks.

"We don't know what we don't know. And the object is to cut down on that," said one FBI official who defended the plans.

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Another official, while also defending the proposed guidelines, raised concerns about criticism during the presidential election year over what he called "the P word" _ profiling.

If adopted, the guidelines would be put in place in the final months of a presidential administration that has been dogged by criticism that its counterterror programs trample privacy rights and civil liberties.

Critics say the presumption of innocence is lost in the proposal. The FBI will be allowed to begin investigations simply "by assuming that everyone's a suspect, and then you weed out the innocent," said Caroline Fredrickson of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey acknowledged the overhaul was under way in early June, saying the guidelines sought to ensure regulations for FBI terror investigations don't conflict with ones governing criminal probes. He would not give any details.

"It's necessary to put in place regulations that will allow the FBI to transform itself ... into an intelligence gathering organization in addition to just a crime solving organization," Mukasey told reporters.

The changes would allow FBI agents to ask open-ended questions about activities of Muslim- or Arab-Americans, or investigate them if their jobs and backgrounds match trends that analysts deem suspect.

FBI agents would not be allowed to eavesdrop on phone calls or dig deeply into personal data _ such as the content of phone or e-mail records or bank statements _ until a full investigation was opened.

The guidelines focus on the FBI's domestic operations and run about 40 pages long, several officials said. They do not specifically spell out what traits the FBI should use in building profiles.

One senior Justice Department official said agents have been allowed since 2003 to build "threat assessments" of Americans based on public records and information from informants. Such assessments could be used to open a preliminary investigation, the official said.

However, another official said the 2003 authorities are limited, tightly monitored by FBI headquarters in Washington and, overall, confusing to agents about how or when they can be used.

Justice spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the guidelines governing when to open a national security investigation are part of a "harmonizing" process that will not give the FBI any more authority than it already has. He declined further comment, but he and two other senior Justice officials, would not deny the changes as they were described to AP by others familiar with the guidelines.

"Any review and change to the guidelines will reflect our traditional concerns for civil liberties and First Amendment liberties and our traditional investigative emphasis on using the least intrusive means feasible," Roehrkasse said Wednesday.

Although the guidelines do not require congressional approval, House members recently sought to limit such profiling by rejecting an $11 million request for the FBI's security assessment center. Lawmakers wrote it that was unclear how the FBI could compile suspect profiles "in such a way as to avoid needless intrusions into the privacy of innocent citizens" and without wasting time and money chasing down false leads.

The denial of funding could limit the FBI's use of profiles, or "predictive models and patterns of behavior" as the government prefers to describe the data-mining results, but would not change the guidelines authorizing them. The guidelines would remain in effect until a new attorney general decided to change them.

Courts across the country have overturned criminal convictions when defendants showed they were targeted based on race. Racial profiling generally is considered a civil rights violation, and former Attorney General John Ashcroft condemned it in March 2001 as an "unconstitutional deprivation of equal protection under our Constitution."

President Bush also has condemned racial profiling as "wrong in America" and in a December 2001 interview had harsh words for an airline that refused to let one of his Secret Service agents board a commercial flight. The agent was Arab-American. "If he was treated that way because of his ethnicity, that will make me madder than heck," Bush said.

Immediately after 9/11, hundreds of Muslims and Arabs were detained, deported and monitored as the government urgently sought information that could prevent another attack. Despite efforts to repair and nurture relationships with those groups, Muslim- and Arab-Americans still complain of being singled out by federal security practices.

Martin Redish, a constitutional and civil rights scholar at Northwestern University School of Law, said courts are likely to give the FBI a lot of leeway in deciding how to open national security investigations.

"But it's a very fine line to be drawn when the basis of the investigation is dominated by the ethnic background of the subject," Redish said. "And when the investigation results in harassment, you have a serious constitutional concern."

Citing Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh _ two white Americans _ the ACLU's Fredrickson said: "Profiling has sent us in the wrong direction. ... I thought we learned our lesson in that regard."


The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other rac...
The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other rac...
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The bedwetters on this thread seem to think that profiling is an unfair way to look for the bad guys.

If the likely suspects were handsome, affluent, white males with a Texas accent, I wouldn't be the least offended if the authorities took an interest in my comings and goings.

"Law and order every time, Sheriff, that's us!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 07/03/2008
- PixieThis I'm a Fan of PixieThis 53 fans permalink
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How would you profile this case....?

You get information that a religious and/or political extremist is planning to blow up a federal building; where do you start your investigation?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 07/03/2008

I'd look for anyone who has been active in militia organizations or fringe militant political groups. I'd also check for angry rants on obscure specialty blogs. If he was asked to leave a congregation because of behavior issues, he'd probably zoom to the top of my list.

Probably a white male, single or divorced, history of physical confrontations, maybe ex-military with a less than spotless record.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 07/03/2008
- Beelzebul I'm a Fan of Beelzebul 64 fans permalink
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E-mail me at beelzebulseekinghottexasstud......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 07/03/2008
- missusam I'm a Fan of missusam 8 fans permalink
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What and who are the bad guys.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 07/03/2008

Ramirez identified them earlier.

I believe he pointed out that 100% of hijackings were perpetrated by Muslim men of a certain age.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 07/03/2008

the point is that american arabs and mulsim american arabs are not likely suspects

american arabs, who tend to by highly educated professionals with incomes well above the national average, had no involvement in 9-11 . . .the vast majority, fyi, are christian ( 77%), and lest you assume that they are by nature violent, 76% favor stricter gun control

you know nothing of the arab community and yet you assume that they are likely suspects . . . that makes you a racist and a fool

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Who's the bedwetters? I'd say the brownshirts like you that sh*t yourself every time you see a person of color.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 07/03/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 79 fans permalink

well, our leaders have finally told us the truth. its refreshing after a life time of lies they have finally come clean. this article is THE seminal event of my life time. i really can't believe bush has admitted defeat in the war on terra(pun intended). for that bit of honesty i'm absolutely willing to give up all of my inalienable rights. where do i send them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 294 fans permalink
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"...this article is THE seminal event of my life time."


My gosh. And what a life you've led, too...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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Whereas you must be in bliss, thanks to your ignirance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Take what's left of the Bill of Rights and Constitution, endorse on the back and mail to the white house C/O Supreme Leader Boosh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 07/03/2008

You really can't be serious! The seminal moment of your life is a political article?

And how did Bush admit defeat ? I must have missed that part.

Be glad you and every other American has inalienable rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 07/03/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 79 fans permalink

you and the ramirez don't have much of a sense of irony or humor. fits the bill. see you soon in a gulag. let's hope its in florida or hawaii. shaka, bradda.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 07/03/2008
- Beelzebul I'm a Fan of Beelzebul 64 fans permalink
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Polish people like myself have long been victims of profiling -- and jokes -- and ridicule -- and numerous other pigeonhole categories that've been painful to all us Poles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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I've heard about your Navy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 07/03/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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And do you know when and why all the ridicule and the jokes started?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 294 fans permalink
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Yeah. And that sucks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 07/03/2008

You are right, the Poles have been victimized, ridiculed, exterminated and sold out in the last century.

An honorable people who have been the victims of politics and racial diversity groups.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 07/03/2008
- Donnat I'm a Fan of Donnat 24 fans permalink

I don't think this will work. After all, Cheney authorized Halliburton to operate in Iraq during the period of sanctions and nobody ever caught him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/03/2008
- CEDobson I'm a Fan of CEDobson 6 fans permalink
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I believe that the government has been using this practice for a long time. Hoover, the peeping Tom comes to mind. Putting it into "law," however, feels like another jab to me of "see, look what else we can do." I think that our government is whittling away at our rights one by one subtly in the name of safety and protection, i.e., Homeland Security. Yes, I think they are that sneaky.

For comparison sake, I look at my life when Clinton was in office and look at my life now. Although I live in the same house, make basically the same money, have the same number of kids and eat basically the same things, my monetary quality of life has gone downhill drastically since GWB took office - the little things he has chipped away, i.e., health care, outsourcing of jobs, taxes, fuel, cost of living, etc.

Now, he wants to spy on the quality of life I have left at any time he chooses.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

This is as close to a monarchy as one can get without calling himself King.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 07/03/2008

How do you sell this? You have the same quality of life you had under Clinton by your own admission and because items now cost more, 8-12 years later, Bush is to blame.What? As if you are alone? Ever hear of inflation?

I lived under Jimmy Carter 1976-80. Inflation was nearly 20% in some of those years. Interest rates were at that range. During the time he was president I lost half of my purchasing power.

In every president since Carte,r my purchasing power has eroded because of inflation.

I grew up without health insurance, when health insurance begin to get expensive, it was when the baby boomer generation became middle aged and started needing more medical care.

By the way Roosevelt in world war 2 authorized lots of spying on Americans without their knowledge. We were in a war, he felt it was necessary.

Right or wrong he did what he felt was best for the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 07/03/2008
- CEDobson I'm a Fan of CEDobson 6 fans permalink
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I can easily sell this:

GWB has outsourced millions of American jobs - one of THE reasons so many jobs have been "lost." This is done so "help" can be paid less (big industry versus small business). Americans cannot compete. This is about greed.

Fuel: GWB has his dirty hand in the till (oil companies, of which GWB is a large part, reported record profits in the billions). Because fuel has risen so drastically, everything down to the smallest necessity has gone up in price. Not inflation - greed.

You lacked health insurance as a kid. Today you have to have it. I pay dearly for mine - $600 a month (bottom barrel care). Americans voted for this issue to change - nothing has been done.

After 9-11, a law was passed to allow wire-tapping/search and seizure without a warrant. In the name of Osama Bin Laden, Americans reluctantly agreed - not for a war in Iraq that has nothing to do with 9-11.

I prepare for inflation (I said my pay has BASICALLY stayed the same).

If you are trying to tell me that GWB being in office has nothing to do with the poorer quality of life millions of Americans are experiencing, then I have some oceanfront property in Kansas for sale as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 07/03/2008
- robjh1 I'm a Fan of robjh1 25 fans permalink
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I guess African Americans won't have to worry about this. The travel less to these places than let's say whites and Arabs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/03/2008
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Unless they're in the military.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Unless they're driving...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 07/03/2008

you overlook that fact that food markets in inner-city neighborhoods are often operated by arab americans . . . while none of the 9-11 hijackers were arab american shop keepers, important resources will be diverted to watch them like hawks . . . so urban blacks had better be careful where they shop, and for heaven's sake, stay away from canned goods with arabic on the labels!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 07/03/2008
- mooph I'm a Fan of mooph 8 fans permalink
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Is that Obama's silhouette under the headline?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 07/03/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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Here the melting pot stands open - if you are willing to get bleached first. - Buffy Saint Marie

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 07/03/2008
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"Among the factors that could make someone subject of an investigation is travel to regions of the world known for terrorist activity, access to weapons or military training, along with the person's race or ethnicity."

That's half our military!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 294 fans permalink
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The way they dress is important as well. This story is being reported on the internets:
***

A fleeing Taliban, desperate for water, was plodding through the Afghanistan desert when he saw something far off in the distance. Hoping to find water, he hurried toward the object, only to find a little old Jewish man at a small stand selling ties.

The Taliban asked, 'Do you have water?'

The Jewish man replied, 'I have no water. Would you like to buy a tie? They are only $5.'

The Taliban shouted, 'Idiot! I do not need an over-priced tie. I need water! I should kill you, but I must find water first!'

'OK,' said the old Jewish man,' it does not matter that you do not want to buy a tie and that you hate me. I will show you that I am bigger than that. If you continue over that hill to the east for about two miles, you will find a l ovely restaurant. It has all the ice cold water you need. Shalom.'

Muttering, the Taliban staggered away over the hill. Several hours later he staggered back, almost dead.

'Your brother won't let me in without a tie!'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 07/03/2008
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ROFL!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 AM on 07/04/2008
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I'm sure they mean civilian travel.

I actually see this two different ways. On the one hand, if you take a purely statistical view of the data (including race and ethnicity) you probably could come up with a list of people more likely to commits acts of terrorism against the US. In my job I deal with a significant amount of data everyday. Finding patterns can be pretty interesting, and very helpful if done right. Which leads me to my second view......they won't do it right. And our government has proven itself untrustworthy when given too much power. I understand that in law enforcement the safe approach may be to view everyone as potential criminals, but I have a real problem with government agents having free rein to investigate anyone they want. What do they do once someone has been marked a potential threat?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 07/03/2008

It's more than half.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 AM on 07/04/2008

I got very little out of this article. But the number of posts on it indicates that it has whipped up some sort of hysteria in a large segment of Huff Post readership. Apparently, the Justice Department does data mining of publicly available information about individuals, belonging to groups having a higher percentage of bad guys and gals than the average in the general population. I am sure there are plenty of people here who don't want them to do even that, even though there are plenty of political and business operatives who do similar stuff. Under some murky conditions, implied by the collected information, the FBI can then collect non public information like phone, foreign travel and tax records on some particular individual. Until we learn exactly what has happen to allow them to do such things, I would cool it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Kids, listen to your mother.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/03/2008
- CEDobson I'm a Fan of CEDobson 6 fans permalink
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Concern, gathering information and comments about what your government is doing should not be classified as hysteria. I call it knowledge.

Ever heard the quote, "Question authority?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 07/03/2008
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Simple.

This is America.

Race means everything.

Remember, America was founded on slaughter and slavery.
The slaughter of the Indians and the enslavement of the black people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 07/03/2008

So, how do you feel about the topic of the thread?

Being considered a "person of interest" is not the same as being accused of a crime.

It's all about limiting the search to a likely pool of suspects.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 07/03/2008
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No, it's about promoting the use of illegal and immoral tactics like profiling to frighten people.

The right always deals in fear---that's why half the righties who post here are under their beds, wetting themselves in abject fear every time they hear a leaf fall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/03/2008

Hey, it was just manifest destiny. That's all.

Does anyone know if anyone else other than Europeans lands on a new reached coast and declares all that can be seen the property of their king or queen?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 07/03/2008

Yes I do. There are many. Pick any middle east king in BC times. Take as an example the story of the Spartans. King after king would send emisarries to claim lands.

Genghis Khan, the Chinese emperor, and the samurai of Japan. The Ottoman empire, and everyone who had a navy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 07/03/2008
- Scott1560 I'm a Fan of Scott1560 20 fans permalink

So where else in the world has the territorial imperative not been a factor?

Why stop w/American indians? You can go back further.

Both blacks & whites have killed indians and even enslaved/killed their own and certainly on land masses other than North America. I'm not gettin' it..............what does it have to do w/us....the now? My ancestors were enslaved & we had zip to do w/blacks being enslaved in America. How does any of this have anything to do w/2008?

Sorry, but I've got a real problem w/folks who pick and choose points in history to make a case. I've also got a problem w/those who believe in "sins of the father," something that most of our ancestors tried to shed when they first moved here. To blame everyone for past injustices is just plain wrong, especialy when you pass that blame on to folks who arrived here long after slavery & indian wars were past history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 07/03/2008
- missusam I'm a Fan of missusam 8 fans permalink
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People have karma, countries have karma. Unfortuantely life is not fair and it has nothing to do with blaming you for past injustices.

Because you chose not to believe in "the sins of the father" does not make it less true.

What is going on in America has nothing to do with that now. A handful of super rich sob have sold the American dream down river to make themselves richer. But what it has to do with is that, they can get away with it because of the divisions in America.

As long as others think, it is them and not me, everybody is effected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 07/03/2008

Simply wrong, a factual mis-statement of grand canyon type proportions.

Race means everything only to a small segment of society who is obcessed with it, and see it in everything.

America was NOT founded on slaughter and slavey. Ever hear of the bill of rights? And the phrase contained within "All men are created equal." One hell of a bold statement to make at that point in time considering no other country in the world had ever said so. And to make sure that statement was lived up to half a million soldiers died in the civil war because they believed it.

The Indians were a people whose time had come. They were tribal, polygamous, lawless, they enslaved woman and other tribes, murdered those too sick or feeble and were not stewards of the land. Ever see pictures of an Indian camp?? The Indians here at that point in time had slaughtered the previous Indians ,and enslaved or assimilated them into their tribe.

Blacks and whites were slaves. for centuries, here and everywhere else. No race was exempted from slavery.Slavery was an accepted practice all over the world. African tribes had a system for obtaining people of any race and selling them to anyone who could buy them. Read their history. It is rich with a fascinating account of just how many millions of Africans were enslaved and sold by other Africans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 07/03/2008
- Strain I'm a Fan of Strain 4 fans permalink

The Indians WERE NOT POLYGAMOUS! They WERE NOT LAWLESS! They DID NOT enslave women and other tribes! DID NOT murder the sick and feeble, and were DEFINITELY STEWARDS OF THE LAND! Get your facts straight buster before you go blowing off bullsh##!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 07/03/2008

Yes, but tribalism, polygamy, and lawlessness are not a reason to commit genocide. Seriously. Polygamy? Is that the best you can do? Were they any more violent, as a whole, than, say, Europeans or Africans or Asians?

The phrase "all men are created equal" was not an accurate description of the beliefs of the men who wrote it. Men who believe in equality don't buy, sell, trade, and use other human beings as property. Just because other people have done it for centuries doesn't make it right. The Greeks and the Romans believed in equality, too, and they also had slaves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 AM on 07/04/2008

lemme see, under this scheme we would prevent attacks by the likes of john phillip walker lindh, timothy mcveigh , terry nichols and theodore kaczynski, right?

oops!

now, where's that list of american arabs and muslims who have committed acts of terror against us?

oh, yeah, it doesn't exist, except in the minds of racists and bigots!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 07/03/2008
- GZLives I'm a Fan of GZLives 47 fans permalink

Why not take it back to Leon Frank Czolgosz who killed President McKinley in 1901 ?

Another words its a really dumb argument to continue to use examples of terrorists from a decade or more ago. See if you understand this concept :

THAT WAS THEN AND NOW IS NOW ...

And currently in case you haven't noticed or focused there's this thing they call a "jihad" and its being waged against us ... that would be all who are deemed non believers by our Islamist friends. Islamist by the way is NOT the same as Muslim and I'm not accusing ALL Muslims of this but I am accusing Islamists of it and you'd be really naive to dismiss the obvious reality around you. Believe what you want about George W Bush, but how does that figure when UK intel says they're watching scores of terror plots currently in the works ... are those all neocon plots? No of course not. Anyone convinced that all of this is the figment of someone's vivid imagination only look at Thailand where there are assassinations almost weekly by Jihadi separatists or in India where Islamists are endlessly blowing up Hindus - anjd the other way around.

Its just silly to compare a US homegrown from 15 years ago with what's been happening here in the US and around the world since 9/11

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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OK. What they call Jihad, we call Crusade. We're just not honest enough to admit it. Fearmonger.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 07/03/2008

cool, give me the list of american arabs, from this decade, who have committed homegrown acts of terror

fyi, the reason why probable cause is a good idea security-wise, and not just constitution-wise, is that we have limited man and machine power to investigate . . . when the fbi snoops on people based upon their ethnicity or religion, they not only miss the terrorists of other races/ethnicities and religions, but they loose any real bad guys in a flood of info . . . remember, please, how few arabic speaking fbi agents we have

you are less safe when your government is racist . . . period

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Over the past twenty years, homegrown white terrorism has far outstripped homegrown arab terrorism. How do you reconcile that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 07/03/2008

It must be fascinating to make up a totally absurd statement, irrelevant to the point of the author and then back it up with name calling and self righteous hypocrisy.

So in your mind, only racists and bigots believe Muslims would committ terrorism acts ??, If you want a list of muslim terrorists who have committed those acts simply go to their web sites where they gleefully extoll every deed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 07/03/2008

american muslim terrorists? do you have the web address?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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If they are out to get "infidels" and conquer the world for Allah, why don't the "jihadists" choose easier targets, like blowing up the Vatican, or attacking a country like Chile - a poor, weak country with lots of Christians?

Why the U.S.?

Think about it.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 07/03/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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How many military bases does The Vatican have in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Qatar, etc and when was the last time they backed Saudi dictators, Iran Sheiks and invaded a country in the Middle East?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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Exactly. Therefore it has nothing to do with religion or "jihad" or infidels. It has to do with money (oil) and their desire to not have foreign intervention in their countries.

Religion and call for "jihad" is used only a a recruitment tool. Just as our leaders use "patriotism".
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 07/03/2008
- GZLives I'm a Fan of GZLives 47 fans permalink

I don't for minute believe military bases and world hegemony have anything to so with any of this for a second. To believe that BS is just silly and ignores all the evidence to the contrary. But I admit, it does fit right into the "useful idiot" profile where "they" attack us and "you" find excuses and reasons for the attacks .. silly and counter productive.

They are attacking us because they believe in an ideology that condemns us unless we submit to their faith.

Israel could disappear tomorrow, America could walk out of Iraq the following day and the attacks in Thailand and India and Philippines and Europe and Russia etc. will continue as they have for decades.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 07/03/2008

Where were our Saudi bases in the early 1800's, when American ships were being attacked and their seamen enslaved by adherents of the "religion of peace". Where were our Saudi bases in the early 70's when aircraft were being hijacked and people murdered by the "religion of peace"? I always love the folks who cannot see further into the past than Bush's presidency.
Semper fi

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 07/04/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Because the Vatican, or Chile isn't forcing world hegemony?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 07/03/2008
- GZLives I'm a Fan of GZLives 47 fans permalink

Like Spain which they've done, like Germany which they've tried to do, like England? which they have succeeded at and continue to try.

What makes you think these plots are not already in the works. Brit intelligence recently states that they are currently tracking a score of various plots ... you doubt that?
If so, then you're extremely naive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Next to the United States, China and Russia, western Europe has the most powerful countries, more so as the EU. German, Spain and England are all strong, stable societies. Your point makes no sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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Spain and England were attacked for siding with the U.S. in the war. What was the big thing happeneing in Germany? Remind me.

Besides, you didn't refute my point. In fact, you might have reinforced it.

I am not questioning that they have plots. You seem to have missed the point of my post entirely.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 07/03/2008
- 3Gs I'm a Fan of 3Gs permalink

Fact: we created these terrorists by raping their culture and country for many years. This does make them less real. We have another generation of angry Muslims to look forward too, thanks to BushCo's myriad of crimes against humanity.

Fact: if we do not take a proactive role in stopping future attacks, it will impede progress in righting the wrong.

If McSame makes it into office, we are done. Our violent acts will continue unabated. If Obama makes it in, we at least have a prayer that a program like this will be the first of many to be used wisely and help lead us into a place of greater stability.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 294 fans permalink
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Yes. We should "Blame America First" in situations like this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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You reap what you sow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/03/2008
- GZLives I'm a Fan of GZLives 47 fans permalink

BS ... your post is absurd.
The Islamists are waging Jihad is Thailand which has absolutely nothing to do with America, and India which has absolutely nothing to do with America and in many other parts of the world that have NOTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA.

It's about their version of Islam ... ah there I've said it. Nail me to a cross.

At least do some research before pretending to know something about the issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 07/03/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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We should jist nook em all and tern the dezzert in ta GLASS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 07/03/2008

We had no hand in creating any terrorist. That is a dishonest arguement. That says because you exist and you make policies I can excuse whatever I do because I do not like you, or I have offended you in the past 1,000 years.

Using you logic every person on the face of the earth has enough of a grievance to blow up anyone they feel offended by without arguement.

Have you ever thought this arguement through past its starting point?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 AM on 07/04/2008
- PixieThis I'm a Fan of PixieThis 53 fans permalink
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“Since September 11, our nation has engaged in a policy of institutionalized racial and ethnic profiling. If Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were alive today ... he would tell us we must not allow the horrific acts of terror our nation has endured to slowly and subversively destroy the foundation of our democracy.

John Conyers

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 07/03/2008
- DofG I'm a Fan of DofG 50 fans permalink
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We must remember that most Americans are narcissistic, and ignorant of American, and world history. This allows the our government to pretend to have "clean hands", and the populace to assume that these horrofic events are born out of thin air- "They hate us because we are a freedom loving people"! Not only does this mindset perpetuates a continuous danger to us, but because it's not rooted in truth, it keeps real solutions beyond consideration. It's like having roaches constantly invading one's home, where the only contemplated solution is to contiually call an exterminator, rather than cut off their food supply!
Terrorism is an effect born of a cause. But as a "collective", we don't even know the actual cause! And our position is merely to set ourselves above HUMANITY, with the assurance that our superior abilty to exact violence will always sustain our delusion of safety. So how can we intelligently address the problem?
Our ability to survive, and thrive as a nation, has always truly been, practiced or not, about knowledge, and enlightenment. And when we, regardless of our station, fall short of this standard we become merely self-interested survivors. Then, we get what we got- a dysfunctional unenlightnened government!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 07/03/2008
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