Justice Department Considers Racial Profiling For Terror Prevention

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First Posted: 07- 3-08 08:28 AM   |   Updated: 07-11-08 05:12 AM

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The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other racial and ethnic groups.

Law enforcement officials say the proposed policy would help them do exactly what Congress demanded after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: root out terrorists before they strike.

Although President Bush has disavowed targeting suspects based on their race or ethnicity, the new rules would allow the FBI to consider those factors among a number of traits that could trigger a national security investigation.

Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons _ like evidence or allegations that a law probably has been violated _ to investigate U.S. citizens and legal residents. The new policy, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press, would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.

Among the factors that could make someone subject of an investigation is travel to regions of the world known for terrorist activity, access to weapons or military training, along with the person's race or ethnicity.

More than a half-dozen senior FBI, Justice Department and other U.S. intelligence officials familiar with the new policy agreed to discuss it only on condition of anonymity, either because they were not allowed to speak publicly or because the change is not yet final.

The change, which is expected later this summer, is part of an update of Justice Department policies known as the attorney general guidelines. They are being overhauled amid the FBI's transition from a traditional crime-fighting agency to one whose top mission is to protect America from terrorist attacks.

"We don't know what we don't know. And the object is to cut down on that," said one FBI official who defended the plans.

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Another official, while also defending the proposed guidelines, raised concerns about criticism during the presidential election year over what he called "the P word" _ profiling.

If adopted, the guidelines would be put in place in the final months of a presidential administration that has been dogged by criticism that its counterterror programs trample privacy rights and civil liberties.

Critics say the presumption of innocence is lost in the proposal. The FBI will be allowed to begin investigations simply "by assuming that everyone's a suspect, and then you weed out the innocent," said Caroline Fredrickson of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey acknowledged the overhaul was under way in early June, saying the guidelines sought to ensure regulations for FBI terror investigations don't conflict with ones governing criminal probes. He would not give any details.

"It's necessary to put in place regulations that will allow the FBI to transform itself ... into an intelligence gathering organization in addition to just a crime solving organization," Mukasey told reporters.

The changes would allow FBI agents to ask open-ended questions about activities of Muslim- or Arab-Americans, or investigate them if their jobs and backgrounds match trends that analysts deem suspect.

FBI agents would not be allowed to eavesdrop on phone calls or dig deeply into personal data _ such as the content of phone or e-mail records or bank statements _ until a full investigation was opened.

The guidelines focus on the FBI's domestic operations and run about 40 pages long, several officials said. They do not specifically spell out what traits the FBI should use in building profiles.

One senior Justice Department official said agents have been allowed since 2003 to build "threat assessments" of Americans based on public records and information from informants. Such assessments could be used to open a preliminary investigation, the official said.

However, another official said the 2003 authorities are limited, tightly monitored by FBI headquarters in Washington and, overall, confusing to agents about how or when they can be used.

Justice spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the guidelines governing when to open a national security investigation are part of a "harmonizing" process that will not give the FBI any more authority than it already has. He declined further comment, but he and two other senior Justice officials, would not deny the changes as they were described to AP by others familiar with the guidelines.

"Any review and change to the guidelines will reflect our traditional concerns for civil liberties and First Amendment liberties and our traditional investigative emphasis on using the least intrusive means feasible," Roehrkasse said Wednesday.

Although the guidelines do not require congressional approval, House members recently sought to limit such profiling by rejecting an $11 million request for the FBI's security assessment center. Lawmakers wrote it that was unclear how the FBI could compile suspect profiles "in such a way as to avoid needless intrusions into the privacy of innocent citizens" and without wasting time and money chasing down false leads.

The denial of funding could limit the FBI's use of profiles, or "predictive models and patterns of behavior" as the government prefers to describe the data-mining results, but would not change the guidelines authorizing them. The guidelines would remain in effect until a new attorney general decided to change them.

Courts across the country have overturned criminal convictions when defendants showed they were targeted based on race. Racial profiling generally is considered a civil rights violation, and former Attorney General John Ashcroft condemned it in March 2001 as an "unconstitutional deprivation of equal protection under our Constitution."

President Bush also has condemned racial profiling as "wrong in America" and in a December 2001 interview had harsh words for an airline that refused to let one of his Secret Service agents board a commercial flight. The agent was Arab-American. "If he was treated that way because of his ethnicity, that will make me madder than heck," Bush said.

Immediately after 9/11, hundreds of Muslims and Arabs were detained, deported and monitored as the government urgently sought information that could prevent another attack. Despite efforts to repair and nurture relationships with those groups, Muslim- and Arab-Americans still complain of being singled out by federal security practices.

Martin Redish, a constitutional and civil rights scholar at Northwestern University School of Law, said courts are likely to give the FBI a lot of leeway in deciding how to open national security investigations.

"But it's a very fine line to be drawn when the basis of the investigation is dominated by the ethnic background of the subject," Redish said. "And when the investigation results in harassment, you have a serious constitutional concern."

Citing Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh _ two white Americans _ the ACLU's Fredrickson said: "Profiling has sent us in the wrong direction. ... I thought we learned our lesson in that regard."


The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other rac...
The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other rac...
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- Terriac I'm a Fan of Terriac 13 fans permalink
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This is utterly frightening. It's just a further move to take rights away from people that they have come to hold dear and depend on. Can't anyone see that this country is slowing sliding into the abyss? It doesn't matter whether someone is actually guilty of something or not. All they need is to think you might be. That's it. That's all. If this doesn't scare the hell out of every American, there is something very, very wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 07/03/2008
- 3Gs I'm a Fan of 3Gs permalink

Actually, the country slid into the abyss a long time ago; just after Kennedy's assasination. This could be, if implemented properly, and good move to put our fight against terrorism into the hands of law enforcement as opposed to the military.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 07/03/2008

When Americans in the future look back on this, they will wonder why there were some who questioned this patriotic policy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 07/03/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 276 fans permalink
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No, I think there will be those who question the educational system in America after reading your posts, Sloppy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 07/03/2008

You're right AdLib,
If there are any left, they will wonder how come this sloppy didn't understand the meaning of PATRIOTISM! Or, that it's an constitution that defines a nation, and loyalty to that constitution is being a PATRIOT!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 07/03/2008
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There will BE no "Americans" in the future if this type of policy... & other TRAITOROUS policies like it are enacted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 07/03/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink

define "traitorous"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 07/03/2008

HA!

You are of the people that think you are immune.

YEP!
Immured to high gas prices, to lower wages, to longer hours, to mortgage default, to global warming, to etc, etc.

The only Americans you could possibly be referring to, are the ones that come from places like you think this nation should be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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They will understand how David defeated Goliath with a mere slingshot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/03/2008
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When Americans in the future look back on this, Clydesdale Fluffer, they will wonder how such fascist and illegal policies were ever considered acceptable.

Profiling is morally reprehensible, ethically indefensible, and wildly illegal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 07/03/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink

tell us, Oh Wise One, what federal statute does this proposed policy violate?

You said it's "wildly illegal"

how so?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 07/03/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink

And how is this illegal?

Please cite authority when you make such claims.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 07/03/2008

The funniest thing about racial or any other kind of profiling is:

It assumes everybody is as dumb, stupid, ridiculous, etc, as the enforcers of the policy.

Would a Colombian drug dealer ship his drugs by a Columbia that is more likely to be checked?
Would a Fl. drug dealer ship his drugs to NYC by a Black or Latino that is more likely to be checked?
Of course I could ask that question about any other kind smuggling type operation. The answer will always be, only if the shipper / terrorist is as stupid as the pro-filer.
It's the reason why we LOST the war on drugs and every other dumb so-called preventive enforcement, including bootlegging.

Why would anyone in a multi-million / billion dollar business, act as stupid as law enforcement?

If you're gonna ship drugs worth a lot of money on int-95 to NYC, you can believe it will be shipped by lil' ole' Grandpa & Grandma Kent, that has the least chance of ever getting stopped or profiled.

What! You say you don't believe me? Well, just check how much more drugs have reached the streets of Miami & NYC since profiling began.

JERKS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 298 fans permalink
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Well, that makes some sense, but it's still tough to find blonde, pale-skinned American- types who will sign on to the suicide bombing thing. Until then the Islamos will probably stick with arabic-looking bombers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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"suicide bombing thing"

Please explain why a suicide bomb is more deadly than any other type.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Right, white Americans send their bombs in the mail, or leave them in trucks or send Anthrax through the mail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 07/03/2008
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Who says that "American types" are blond & pale skinned?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 07/03/2008

There were a few arrests of white jihadists. Can't remember the name of the guy. Had a small Cessna type plane. Young guy, beard, suburban white guy!

Yes, common sense states it's someone of Arab descent, but that is not entirely the case. Profiling just leaves holes open, doesn't close them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1681 fans permalink
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Blackwater signed up a bunch of White Supremacist South Africans to go kill civilians in Iraq. And some get killed themselves. They might have to pay a bit more for suicide bombings, but it cannot be ruled out. Besides, suicide bombing is not the only way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 07/03/2008
- elbzee I'm a Fan of elbzee 22 fans permalink
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BINGO! And, following their sick intention, that means EVERYONE is suspect. Now, let's consider the next step....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 07/03/2008
- Forsetti I'm a Fan of Forsetti 70 fans permalink
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For an administration that does not believe in evolution they certainly spend a lot of time and energy doing things that are a de-evolution of our Constitution, country and values. At this rate, they are about three months from segregation and taking the vote away from women.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 07/03/2008
- peacekitten I'm a Fan of peacekitten 675 fans permalink
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and even closer to sprouting gills and flippers........

they're going to need them when they climb back into the primordial soup.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/03/2008

I respect your point, but more important is, how does this happen without a fight from the Dems?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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Mustn't appear weak on TERRORISM..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Pelosi and Reid that's how

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 07/03/2008
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Because this is being tried exclusive of the Congress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 07/03/2008

"It's necessary to put in place regulations that will allow the FBI to transform itself ... into an intelligence gathering organization in addition to just a crime solving organization," Mukasey told reporters."

Does this statement frighten anyone else as much as it does me? Heck, lately, it's the government that has shown itself to be the ones to be most afraid of, not the terrorists.

Yes, my tin foil hat is firmly in place; as is my understanding of history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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Counter Intel Pro II

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 07/03/2008
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Mukasey is giving real meaning to the phrase "Big Brother."

This should frighten every American.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

It's almost hilarious (until you realize how terrifying it is) that Ashcroft was the best of the THREE AGs Boosh has had.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

The easier it is to classify someone as criminal (or in this case 'terrist') the easier it is to control them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/03/2008
- Meggie I'm a Fan of Meggie 101 fans permalink
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Right. US government spent the past 7 years making sure that we're spying on each other and reporting suspicious activities. It's time for the next step. Innocent until proven guilty is long gone, too. It isn't just the govt, it's the way "average Americans" talk. Scarey.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 07/03/2008
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Here's an idea... Why don't we just round up every Muslim and person of Arab descent to Gitmo, and then waterboard them to see who is guilty? Those who don't confess can be deported (just to be on the safe side) and those that do confess can be held indefinitely without trial. :-P

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

Remember, if they float, they're innocent

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 07/03/2008
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You have it backwards.

If they drown, they're innocent.

If they float., they're guilty as sin.

See: Salem Witch Trials.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 07/03/2008
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And if you burn, you're a heretic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 298 fans permalink
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If they float they're guilty.


That's a nitpick, btw. Your post was pitch-perfect and cool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 07/03/2008
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But before we do THAT... we should tattoo numbers on their arms, yes?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/03/2008
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Sounds like a plan to ..........:)

:P

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 07/03/2008

This Stalinist way of thinking is what Obama is now rejecting. Think of what America would turn into with leadership that thought like this. Another Gulag with millions of Americans imprisoned who did not toe the Marxist line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 07/03/2008
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So I take it from your statement that you're voting for Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 07/03/2008
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You're not paying attention, are you?

BG&E just described the Booosh administration policies to a "T" for you.

So you're saying that Booosh is a Stalinist and a Marxist---which requires the kind of pretzel logic we have come to expect from assorted bloviating right-wing gasbags.

Of course Obama rejects that kind of tomfoolery---it's the exact opposite of what this country is supposed to stand for.

But the Republicans are all for it---because they don't represent what America is about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 07/03/2008
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.... or the Neocon line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 07/03/2008

That is not what racial profiling means:

"Racial profiling is the inclusion of racial or ethnic characteristics in determining whether a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act".

Same as white male is most likely to be serial killer...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 07/03/2008
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Did you even read the article?

"The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out MUSLIMS, ARABS or other racial and ethnic groups."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 07/03/2008
- PuppaX I'm a Fan of PuppaX 7 fans permalink
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Are we meant to believe that they haven't always used racial profiling?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 07/03/2008

Naw, they are just dumb enough to believe that you think it ever worked!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 07/03/2008
- ann1 I'm a Fan of ann1 12 fans permalink

Thank you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 07/03/2008
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No, what is missing is that everyone, is at risk........everyone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 07/03/2008
- Beelzebul I'm a Fan of Beelzebul 67 fans permalink
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I just read that George Washington's boyhood home has been found. I wonder if they'll ever find the new home of GWB once he leaves office. Frederick Forsyth's best-selling 1972 novel The Odessa File will probably hit number one on Amazon once Dubya leaves DC for good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 07/03/2008
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It's in Paraguay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 07/03/2008

I am sure they are already doing this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 07/03/2008
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Bush administration policy is to act unlawfully without Congressional consent and make those acts lawful after they've already been in effect for some time. Why wait for approval from Congress when they know they can always use the "patriotic" or "terror" card to weaken the Constitution?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 07/03/2008
- zizyphus I'm a Fan of zizyphus 110 fans permalink
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It is a brave new world alright. In our new America, everyone is guilty until they can prove otherwise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 07/03/2008

This is outrage. No way it should be allowed. We should wait until bad guys take the ad in NYT announcing their intentions. Failing that we should spend time investigating a 70 years old nun who lived at the same adress for 50 years. But do not even think about investigating a single male Arab/Muslim who spend time in Pakistan/Middle East, has contacts with militant imam, googled "how to make bomb" and just tried to buy a ton of fertiliser...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 07/03/2008
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It's called PROBABLE CAUSE, you moron.

Either it's THERE... or it's NOT.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 07/03/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink

The constitution does not require probable cause to simply investigate someone. Whether this is a good idea is a policy debate, not a constitutional debate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 07/03/2008
- AtomiClash I'm a Fan of AtomiClash 4 fans permalink

I think you misunderstand what "racial profiling" is... Perhaps you should check the meaning and report back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/03/2008

"Racial profiling is the inclusion of racial or ethnic characteristics in determining whether a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act "

Racial profiling does not mean that racial or ethnic characteristic is sole consideration. If majorit of terrorists are Muslims, why not include it as PART of consideration.

Majority of serial killers are white males - it would be stupid not to consider that fact when looking for serial killer. So why we do not apply the same to terrorism?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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I SAY LET'S INVESTIGATE EVERYONE WHO VISITED A WHITE SUPREMACY WEBSITE or inquired about any type of weapon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 07/03/2008
- ann1 I'm a Fan of ann1 12 fans permalink

I think the profiling is geared towards dark-skinned people? I think......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 07/03/2008
- peacekitten I'm a Fan of peacekitten 675 fans permalink
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do you realize what an oxymoron your moniker is?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 07/03/2008
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lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 07/03/2008
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Charlie Chan say:

"Mind like parachute. Only work when open."

Yours appears to have been nailed shut.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 07/03/2008

Why is my mind shut? Is it because I am willing to look beyond plotical correctness...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 07/03/2008
- snseattle I'm a Fan of snseattle 4 fans permalink
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Why not investigate every pilot in America? How about every person who looks at buildings thoughtfully? Why not every person who buys fertilizer or fuel oil? These are all behavioral indicators associated with known terrorists. Why rely on what people look like when you can investigate them for the actions they are already taking that could clearly lead to a threat?
This announcemnent, on the eve of our celebrating our freedom in abominable and anathma to our foundation as a nation. These people are leading something, but it is not the USA.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 298 fans permalink
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Read the article. It's the combination of activities that triggers investigation, not just one. And we are considering race or religion as additional characteristics to be added to the list.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 07/03/2008
- BlackJAC I'm a Fan of BlackJAC 77 fans permalink
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Skin-bleaching cream to lighten a dark complexion: $80.
Blonde hair dye from any given pharmacy or supermarket to disguise dark hair: $13.
Blue tinted contact lenses to disguise brown eyes: $50.
Dialect coaching to make voice sound less foreign and more American: $250.
Regional slang dictionary to further disguise actual national origins, because Californians speak differently than Chicagoans than Virginians than New Englanders: $12.
False identity package to further sell the lie that you're an American: $500.
The look on Republicans' faces when another terrorist attack gets through because the terrorists took the Republicans' own racism into account in their planning: priceless.

There are some things money can't buy, like a brain and a conscience. For everything else, there's the racist incomptence Republicans call "patriotism" and "being politically incorrect."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 07/03/2008

clever

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 298 fans permalink
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They wouldn't have to do all that stuff if the Democrats were in power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 07/03/2008
- Soule23 I'm a Fan of Soule23 2 fans permalink

Nope, but they probably wouldn't have as much incentive to attack the US either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 07/03/2008
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They didn't have to do it while the Republicans were in power, did they?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 07/03/2008

Right. And they didn't have to do any of that stuff to hit us on Bush's watch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 07/03/2008
- BabsfromKS I'm a Fan of BabsfromKS 14 fans permalink
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Good post

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 07/03/2008
- Terriac I'm a Fan of Terriac 13 fans permalink
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Very clever. And rght on the money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 07/03/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1681 fans permalink
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Flag pin: 30 cents.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 07/03/2008
- hellenhat I'm a Fan of hellenhat 3 fans permalink

"In Germany, First they came for the communists, but I did not speak up because I was not a communist
Then they came for the socialists and I did not speak up because I was not a sociaist
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak up because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me and by that time, there was no one left to speak up"
.....Pastor Martin Niemoller.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 07/03/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 298 fans permalink
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First they came for the terrorists...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 07/03/2008
- Deeg I'm a Fan of Deeg permalink

"First they came for the Arabs..."

Fixed it for you

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 07/03/2008
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They WERE the terrorists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 07/03/2008

You'd better run!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 07/03/2008
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 75 fans permalink
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Then they came for ethnic sounding names like Ramirez.

Who will vouch for you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 07/03/2008
- rwe I'm a Fan of rwe 21 fans permalink

so by profiling we can accomplish two things,1) stop the communists in the first place, and B) make sure the racial,ethnic and attractiveness behind Barack at his revivals are acceptable

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 07/03/2008
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MAN....

You are SO 1950s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 07/03/2008
- FanofPaine I'm a Fan of FanofPaine 12 fans permalink

I have always loved this quote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 07/03/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 354 fans permalink
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Just a few quotes that come to mind when I see things like this:

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men".
- Plato

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

“We cannot appeal to the conscience of the world when our own conscience is asleep.”
- Carl von Ossietsky Recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1935

"The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government, whether Nazi or Communist."
- Winston Churchill

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."
- Thomas Jefferson

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
- James Madison

"We must become the change we want to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

“We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
- Edward R. Murrow

“No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.”
- Edward R. Murrow

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 07/03/2008
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Thank you Chiguy, excellent post.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 07/03/2008
- BronxBorn I'm a Fan of BronxBorn 58 fans permalink
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Yeah, they're all good.
my favorite is
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men".
- Plato

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 07/03/2008
- peacekitten I'm a Fan of peacekitten 675 fans permalink
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good thoughts. i wish we still had even one of those leaders around today.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 07/03/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 354 fans permalink
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True dat.
Hiya, pk. Miss you 'round these parts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/03/2008
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"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence; Conservatism is distrust of the people, tempered by fear" -- Wm. Gladstone

"If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -- Tony Benn

"I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth." -- Molly Ivins

"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory" - Steven Wright

"Happiness isn't something you experience; it's something you remember" -- Oscar Levant

"If we can't be free at least we can be cheap." -- Frank Zappa

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 07/03/2008
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Excellent posting, thanks......CG

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 07/03/2008

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. "

Benjamin Franklin

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 07/03/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 196 fans permalink
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"There is nothing more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge."

Hunter S. Thompson

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 07/03/2008
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