Disney, NRA Fight Over Allowing Guns At Work

Orlando Sentinel:

Walt Disney World employees won't be packing any heat in the company parking lots anytime soon.

The giant resort has declared that much of its sprawling property is exempt from a new state law that allows Floridians with concealed-weapons permits to keep firearms locked in their cars at work.

Disney, which has 60,000 employees and a long-standing policy against allowing guns on its land, cites an arcane -- and late-added -- loophole in the new law, which took effect Tuesday.

Read the whole story: Orlando Sentinel

Comments

[wordvarc]

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Check out JAMA this month. Our finest medical journal describes ER physicians response to Scalia's "Someone might want a handgun to hold on another while they are dialing the Police."

JAMA's physicians are clear that the risks of gun accidents, homicide, and suicide far outweigh any benefits for having a gun at home.

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[djkrlsn]

Folks--I assume that you know that there is little Disney can do to keep their customers from leaving firearms in their cars since I doubt Disney will search visitor's cars for firearms

[Sundialsvc4]

Guess what happens to a gun that's aimed at your foot?

Guess what happens to a .38 caliber bullet if you miss your target, and a thousand yards away(!) someone happens to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Every responsible gun-owner knows ... and the NRA should stress ... the importance of "knowing what is down-range­." And also, the importance of knowing exactly how and when(!) and where(!!) it is appropriate to use your weapon.

NRA does no good service whatsoever to its so-called constituentcy by failing to stress the importance of safety, discretion, and appropriateness. You don't need a gun at Disney World. There are tens of thousands of people at a place like that whom you would merely be putting in "reckless endangerment," and if you did (by some wild stretch of imagination) actually have both a clear-reason to use a weapon and a clear-shot, you probably lack the training to know how to do it. A small number of Disney's security-officers do.

"You're not Rambo," and "this is not the movies."

NRA should know that ... should stress that ... should repeat that mantra over and over and over again. Should speak openly and firmly against these "yahoos."

[djkrlsn]

Sundial--firearm and range safety is stressed and taugt by the NRA all the time. Since the law in question does not say a word about allowing concealed carry in the park, that is not the issue. What is at issue is what is allowed to be locked up in the car--would you be as upset if a cook left his knives in the car or a gardener left a machete in the car?

[Sundialsvc4]

I think that the analogy you offer is too weak. Disney is of the opinion, and frankly I agree with them, that weapons do not belong on their property except in the hands of their security officers. A weapon "in the glove compartment of your car" is simply not that likely to stay there. The seriousness of that concern is grave, and the legitimacy of that concern (given the awesome destructive power of any handgun) is, I think, quite valid.

"Does the law give you the right to carry or to bring a weapon on my private property ... that is furthermore filled each day with tens of thousands of people ... in trump of my right to tell you not to?" No, I think it does not. And here is where I think that common sense and prudence needs to prevail ... and where organizations like the NRA need to push for that "common sense and prudence."

"Firearm." "Tens of thousands of people." "Untrained or insufficiently trained bearer." "No good reason." "There is a stupendous, deadly potential risk here with no 'upside.' " "I don't want it happening on my land." Are these arguments persuasive? Yes.

There are times when NRA should pick-its-fights and fight hard. And, I believe, there are times when NRA should oppose things that some folks might wish for it to fight for. This is one of them. And this is my opinion.

[wordvarc]

On a practical note...

What percentage of gun owners and those who have access to their guns know how to use a gun? Do you think the NRA encouragement and classes are used enough to make you feel safe that Sneaky, whose character we know nothing of, is carrying a gun?

More guns are lost or stolen than used. They are obviously not being cared for by owners.

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[Sneaky]

"NRA does no good service whatsoever to its so-called constituentcy by failing to stress the importance of safety, discretion, and appropriat­eness."

Seriously? Who's the single largest supporter of gun safety education programs, then?

"There are tens of thousands of people at a place like that whom you would merely be putting in "reckless endangerment," and if you did (by some wild stretch of imagination) actually have both a clear-reason to use a weapon and a clear-shot, you probably lack the training to know how to do it. A small number of Disney's security-officers do."

That's interesting. How is my possessing a firearm putting others in danger? No gun control advocate has ever been able to definitively link them... hell, they can't even establish a positive correlation between them. Further, who are you to determine the training of others? Civilians hit criminals more consistently in shootings than cops do, for Christ's sake.

It might be best, good sir, for you to either educate yourself on the matter before voicing opinions about policy. Just sayin'.

[wordvarc]

Keeping a gun at home greatly increases your chances of death by a firearm for you and your family. No one disputes this fact. The variables are well yes, if you actually live in a war zone, then a gun may be necessary. If not, accidents, murders in the family and suicides are far more common when a gun is kept in the house.

Rhetorically, how come prisons and jails don't allow officers to carry guns? (All guns are in towers or locked and stored.)

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[AmericanSinceFeb08]

If it is up to the NRA, the wild west is here again.

Private companies on private properties­.... The government should stay out of what companies allow/not allow with respect to fire arms.

The world upside down. (this is about property rights. we can not through this out the window because of the NRA.) Disney is right (so is Seaworld).

[Sneaky]

Wait what? Wild west? I've heard that prediction before.

Anyway, the issue of property rights is one to be settled by courts and legislators. If a bad law passes, go to court. Right now, Florida's law is in effect. There are no exemptions except those places a concealed carry licensee cannot normally carry into. Disney is not one of those exceptions, and claims that they are exempt is a literal claim of being above the law. This isn't DIsney suing for property rights; this is the NRA suing Disney for acting above the law.

I find amusing your reference to Seaworld, considering their policy has been what the new law describes since forever and a day.

[djkrlsn]

Where I am from, human life outranks mere property--so your property rights (or Disney's) do not outrank someone else's right to self defense. Since what this law requires is that gunowners be allowed to leave their firearms LOCKED IN THEIR VEHICLE, in no way are the Disney property rights affected.

[FogBelter]

Future conversation heard on Main Street USA, after a visitor is enthusiastically greeted in the Happiest Place on Earth ...

"Why Mickey, is that a Mac-10 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

[djkrlsn]

Fogbelter--instead of bad Mae West imitations--how about proving that San Franciso "progressives" are truly progessive by defending the entire Bill of Rights instead of just the parts you like. You should be embarassed that this vet who is on the conservative side of moderate has to remind you that the entire BOR needs to be defended.

[FogBelter]

We are where we are today because the Second Amendment lends itself to parsing. It is an anachronistic amendment that doesn't reflect the times. When the Constitution was written our piece of North America was occupied by various hostile Nations who had their own designs on the territory ... the French, the Spanish, the Mexicans and a hostile frontier populated with Native Americans, violently reacting to the colonist encroachment on their lands. The ability of an early American to defend themselves at an individual level was more pressing. Also, as I recall, there was no Super Market with commercial refrigeration available in the United States until 1856, gun ownership for many Americans was a necessity just to feed their families.

The US Constitution has always been addressed when a societal evolution occurred, that's why we don't allow slavery, women have the right to vote, and liquor went from legal to illegal to legal again. Perhaps that is where the alteration with the Second Amendments definition needs to take place ... at the Constitutional level.

[djkrlsn]

FogBelter--can you provide a coherent argument showing that defending innocent life is unethical behavior; and since I also oppose vigilante behavior (which is very different fom self defense) a meme about vigilantism is not a coherent argument.

[MaracaKabob]

The NRA is also demanding that gun owners be allowed to store spent ammunition inside the bodies of people that they don't like, even if these people are just noisy kids. Deaths resulting from the new "Safe Storage" procedure are a small price to pay for preserving our sacred 2nd amendment rights.

[djkrlsn]

How about some proof--or are you just angry that gun control lost big time in Heller? You just demolished any status you had as far as being in favor of civil rights.

[Thirdpower]

Like we ever see proof. It's so much easier just to make baseless ad hominem claims w/o any reference or base in reality.

[wordvarc]

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The NRA is now conducting a blitzkrieg.

Will Cox and the NRA zealots force churches to allow guns in their sanctuaries? They're already forcing guns into airports. Will they force guns onto aircraft, into schools, and Presidential town hall meetings?

Will all government buildings (includung The Supreme Court, Congress, the White House) be forced to allow guns?

How far will the "Cold dead hands" gang go?

.

[Sneaky]

Who's forcing into churches? Many allow it without qualms... I know at least a few pastors who carry, actually. "Not all who run with the flock are sheep" and all that.

Airports, sure, why not. Aircraft, I think, needs discussion (falls under private company's domain, but might also cross into federal government/TSA domain depending on how eloquent one's argument is). Schools I'm absolutely for; it's never proven to be a problem in the past, and to date still isn't a problem in locations it's permitted. Government buildings should be an absolutely as well; the whole damn point of the Second Amendment is to make 'em sweat, not to make 'em feel better.

[djkrlsn]

And in Isreal, it has been proven to be very successful.

[djkrlsn]

Also--many pastors emphasize that there is an obligation to defend innocent life (including one's own) and while it is hard on a child to see a trusted adult hurt someone, it is far harder on the child to be a victim of violence.

[wordvarc]

Really?...­A pistol in every elementary kid's backpack?
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[Thirdpower]

A friend of mine is an elder at his church. They are establishing a security force JIC. None of them are NRA members (yet).

[LiberalBuzz]

Tell ya a story about guns right here in Santa Ynez.

Couple of morons got into a road rage thing. One pulls off the freeway to stop it but the other guy follows him into the parking lot at the Albertson's.

They start yelling at each other and the one guy runs to his car, pulls out his gun goes back and shoots the guy three times. He dies. The guy pulling the gun got life.

BOTH men left behind families. The shooter left a wife and FIVE children. The one shot left a widow and fatherless children.

Yep I can sure see where having that gun was a good idea.

TIME magazine did a special on all the people killed in a one week period in America. I believe they said 2000 people plus or minus died as a result of gunshot wounds.

None of them in self protection.

[Sneaky]

Sucky story, no doubt. But when gubment stats nod towards the millions of lives saved per year by defensive use of firearms, I have to question the relevancy of your story and the integrety of TIME's story (not that the latter part is unusual).

[wordvarc]

No, statistics describe the opposite.

Guns are used almost exclusively offensively. The defensive use of guns is a myth...eve­n in street gangs. Guns might be carried but there are few "shootouts­." Most guns are fired offensively. The aggressor wins.

What stats do you read?

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[djkrlsn]

Liberalbuzz--the operative phrase here is "a couple of morons", but then again you knew that.

[JoeBlough]

Do guns hold a sexual/emotional bond on the people of the NRA?

[Thirdpower]

No. Only in the minds of the people who are afraid of them.

[gevan]

If they are bitter they will cling to them.

[djkrlsn]

Do civilians who support the Second Amendment cause hoplophobes to go hysterical?

[rroy]

HuffPost's Pick

I had a second cousen who liked hunting.On­e day,at the age of 14,he and his pal were walking in the woods hunting rabbits,he was carrying a shotgun,his pal was walking behind him carrying a 410 over and under shot gun.He stumbled,the smaller caliber of the 410 dishcharged,shot my second cousen in the head and killed him instantly.­His father had died ina motor cycle accident a year earlier.Hi­s mother,my cousen,shortly drank herself to death because of grief'
I had a playmate who found his father's hand gun and accidently shot off four fingers and bled to death.

Guns are fun if your idea of fun is being depressed!

[Thirdpower]

Sounds like you need to get a higher class of friends and family.

[Sneaky]

How on earth is this a HuffPost's pick? Goodness gracious, all he did is complain about accidental and negligent (though tragic) deaths.

[wordvarc]

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Agreed, Sneaky, that's precisely the point; the severe legacy of being human and carrying a gun.

Should everyone carry?

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[girard1991]

Guns in the parking lot of Disney? This would have been crazy. Someone would get angry at someone in the park and go get their gun come back in and start shooting. I believe in the right to have a gun or two, but not in an amusement parking lot. NRA sucks and Disney rocks for getting the exemption put in. Good work Disney lawyer's.

[Sneaky]

Getting what exemption put in? There is no exemption. They just up and said they're exempt. It comes down to whether or not you respect the rule of law or not. I do. Disney is not above the law.

[jimmy2001]

there is an exemption, Disney and other Florida Corps lobbied for and got it.

[SonofLiberty1]

Sneaky,

Sorry to let you in on a little secret but I bet most of us, gun owners or not, probably beleive there are places that should not see a gun except on a fed or a cop.

Workplaces are probably one..

Ever hear of going POSTAL?

SCHOOLS are probably another...

Look, buy a gun if you want and if you must but MY RIGHT TO BE SAFE is just as imporant as yours....

And every parent has the same right...an­d every family and every kid.

Sometimes, laws are wrong...

If a man or even a law says a foolish thing, it doesn't matter how many people agree,

it's still a foolish thing!

[Angelus2007]

People are making it sound like if people bring these guns, one day Mickey will be lying dead on Main St. from a gunshot. This law allows people with concealed carry permits to keep the gun locked in their car while at work. I see no problem in that. There are still not allowed to carry it while working.

If someone had intentions of shooting someone at Disney, I don't think they will say "Well I want to murder random tourists and co-workers, but I won't because I am not allowed to bring my gun. Oh well. Off to work I go!"

[JoeBlough]

This law seems "goofy". HAHAHA

[djkrlsn]

And JoeBlough is less imaginative than my brother's 2 boys (at 8 and 6)

[CrittersRTasty]

HEE HEE HEEEEE!!!!

[Thirdpower]

But the anti's never let facts get in the way of a good hysterical rant.

[Thirdpower]

Illinois Factoids according to the 2006 IL Uniform Crime Report and Chicago Crime Report.

Chicago has a HS drop out rate of 50%. 95% of murders this year have been committed by people w/ criminal records. Over 70% of victims have had records. Murder rates this year alone have risen 13% in the city with Robbery up 10%.

Illinois had a population of 12.8 million w/ a murder rate of 6.1/100K (780) .

Chicago had 22.2% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 60% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 16.4/100K .

Cook County had 41.4% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 73.6% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 10.83/100K .

The Cook County murders in raw number/per capita increased 4.4% and 4.9% respectively while arrest numbers and rates dropped over 18% from '05 to '06.

If Chicago were to fall into Lake Michigan, the Illinois murder rate would drop to 3.14.

Were the rest of Cook County to follow suit, the rate would drop to 2.74.

Guns are effectively banned in Chicago and severely restricted in Cook County.

Where's the problems again?

[kvet]

Disneyland ?

At Airports ?

On Airplanes ?

On Subways ?

Completely Insane !!!!

[djkrlsn]

Kvet--people have the right to self defense everywhere. If you do not want people to have the tools to defend themselves whereever they are (with limitted exceptions--I will give you restrictions against packin heat on airplanes), then you assume responsibility for their safety. So if some is shot at Disney properties in Florida--Disney legitimately owes them several million dollars.

[Sneaky]

Yes.

Yes.

Maybe.

Absolutely.

Only if you think my right to protect myself changes depending on where I am.

[Mauiloa]

The War on Terror needs to include the NRA as soon as possible!

Those morons and their political minions aren't just nuts, they're BAT SH*T CRAZY!

[Thirdpower]

So you want nothing to get accomplished then?

[Mauiloa]

A saner society might be a good start, no?

[djkrlsn]

Maui--how do vitriolic attacks advance this conversation. The right to effective self defense is one of the most basic rights in existence--and I would hardly call a big provider of instructors in firearm safety BAT SH*T CRAZY--I call that responible. What I call crazy is repeatedly calling for laws that have proven to increase crime (like the Brady campaign does with repeated calls for and defense of draconian unconstitutional firearm bans and restrictions).

[Kevbo68]

If they did allow guns in, I think the wait in line at Space Mountain would be a lot shorter.