Obama On Late Abortion: Mental Distress Doesn't Justify It

WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says "mental distress" should not qualify as a justification for late-term abortions, a key distinction not embraced by many supporters of abortion rights.

In an interview this week with "Relevant," a Christian magazine, Obama said prohibitions on late-term abortions must contain "a strict, well defined exception for the health of the mother."

Obama then added: "Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

Last year, after the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on late-term abortions, Obama said he "strongly disagreed" with the ruling because it "dramatically departs form previous precedents safeguarding the health of pregnant women."

The health care exception is crucial to abortion rights advocates and is considered a legal loophole by abortion opponents. By limiting the health exception to a "serious physical issue," Obama set himself apart from other abortion rights proponents.

The official position of NARAL Pro-Choice America, the abortion rights group that endorsed Obama in May, states: "A health exception must also account for the mental health problems that may occur in pregnancy. Severe fetal anomalies, for example, can exact a tremendous emotional toll on a pregnant woman and her family."

The 1973 landmark abortion case, Roe v. Wade, established a right to an abortion, and a concurrent case, Doe v. Bolton, established that medical judgments about the need for an abortion could include physical, emotional and psychological health factors.

"Senator Obama has consistently maintained that laws restricting abortions must contain exceptions for the health and life of the mother," Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor said Thursday. "Obviously, as he stated in the interview, he has consistently believed those exceptions should be clear and limited enough to ensure that they don't undermine the prohibition on late-term abortions."

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Obama's position is similar to that taken by a bipartisan group of senators in 1998 who tried to counter efforts to ban certain late-term abortions with their own legislation. That proposal, which failed, would have banned all late-term abortions except for those that are necessary to protect the physical health of the mother.

In a statement, NARAL Pro-Choice said Obama's magazine interview is consistent with Roe v. Wade.

"Sen. Obama has consistently said he supports the tenets set forth by Roe, and has made strong statements against President Bush's Federal Abortion Ban, which does not have an exception to protect a woman's health," the organization's statement said.

A leading abortion opponent, however, said Obama's rhetoric does not match his voting record and his previously stated views on abortion rights.

David N. O'Steen, the executive director of National Right to Life, said Obama's remarks to the magazine "are either quite disingenuous or they reflect that Obama does not know what he is talking about."

"You cannot believe that abortion should not be allowed for mental health reasons and support Roe v Wade," O'Steen said.

In the interview with Relevant, conducted on Tuesday, Obama also defended his opposition to restrictions on induced abortions where the fetus sometimes survives for short periods. Obama voted against such a bill when he was in the Illinois Senate. He has said he supported a federal version of the law that contained more specific language because he feared the Illinois proposal would have applied to all abortions.

"There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the 'Born Alive' bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill," Obama said Tuesday. "The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that said that you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn't think it was going to pass constitutional muster."

Comments

[DGregory]

if you dont understand whats being said in this article i dont know what to tell you.

read whats being said in it
"Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

i really think people get worked up for no reason.

use any examples you want to fit what goes in here.

1. mother just doesn't want the baby anymore because her husband left and she cant take care of it and shes 8 months pregnant, but shes "sad"
-This is someone using mental distress as a case for late term abortion

what people dont realize, is that, thats the roe vs wade legal jargon to guard against that example

BUT

2. mother is depressed because husband died when she was 5months pregnant and has completely stopped eating period for the large part of her pregnancy and became frail in which she went from 200lbs to 98, but she is 8 months pregnant. This mental distress caused her to become unhealthy that birth will either kill her or the baby.
This will warrant Late Term abortion

i dont understand why people are going crazy about this.

[williamg]

Good post.

[JMorgan]

"i dont understand why people are going crazy about this."

Of course you don't, because you think women who have late term abortions have them because they're "sad".

Do you have medical training, a medical degree or license? Are you a psychiatrist or a psychologist? Can you name the number of states that have total bans on all late term abortions? Do you know how many physicians in the US perform late term abortions? How many late term abortions are performed each year in the US, and for what reason? How many are due to "mental distress"? And what were their circumstances?

If you don't have medical training/degree/license, do you have training/credentials in some other field which might inform us all on the ethics or morality affecting decisions that free American women make about their lives and those closest to them?

[williamg]

Should I not be able to voice my opinion on stem cells since I am not a scientist?

I'm not a military expert, but can I voice my opinion of military funding?

This is all so crazy.

[elcojonu]

You don't need degrees, training, etc. to opine on ethics and morality.
You just need to have a sense of what's ethical and moral; logic comes into play here.
Where would we be as a society if only those who have degrees and training were the only ones allowed to have opinions about such basic human behavior as ethics and morals ?

[DGregory]

-no i dont have medical training or a degree or license in medicine, but i got wikipedia.

-nope neither a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but a computer science major and taught to do critical thinking.

-sure a quick wikipedia check.well wkipedia says "no states have a total ban on all late term abortions"

-wow... idk alot of abortions per yr over 1k+

-reasons for abortion? most didnt know they were pregnant after 16+ weeks or hard to make arrangements for abortions or afraid to tell partner. those are the 3 most common reasons for late term abortion.

-how many are due to mental distress? no i dont cause mental distress are these things anxiety, confused emotions, hallucination, rage, depression and so on without actually being ‘ill’ in a medical sense. the thing is if any of these things cause physical health problems whats your point then?

Why the outrage? What was wrong with my previous examples you wanted to reply too?

[shep1900]

Let's try another example.

A very healthy fifteen year old girl gets pregnant. She has no physical issues whatsoever.

But--here's the little problem--she is a victim of incest, and her own father is the father of her unboarn child.

Strangely, this causes her distress.

But, Senator Obama would dismiss that entirely? Pro-choice is pro-choice--and he is not pro-choice.

[GnitenGoodLk]

You failed to read the article didn't you.

If it's late term, yup. Late term mental distress no good. Early term, she has options. Adoption being one of them. HER CHOICE. As it should be.

[closetodemfection]

A. O gave this interview in a Christian magazine. Is he trying to position himself as open to messing with pro-choice legislation?

B. If any legislation was passed it could create a loophole or if someone took this position to court to argue it could be very dangerous to Roe V. Wade.

The bottom line: NARAL is very clear about it's positions for pro choice and O is openly disagreeing with them. That sounds an alarm. Not to mention, they endorsed him which now appears awkward.

[GnitenGoodLk]

"In a statement, NARAL Pro-Choice said Obama's magazine interview is consistent with Roe v. Wade."

Right from their site, and from the above article.

[williamg]

"In a statement, NARAL Pro-Choice said Obama's magazine interview is consistent with Roe v. Wade." - from above article.

I mean, who needs to read the article, when you can just make crap up. My God.

[BOISATOOL]

There is no twisting of words here, He got my vote because he sold me on the hope of bringing a liberal democrat into the White House, and everyday I find that was just a bunch of crap to get my vote. Now he has Morphed into a Rebublican to get their votes, I do not trust him anymore to fight for Democratic Iiberal Ideals, the only person he is in this for is himself, if he wants to give a consevative speech to 75,000 people screaming his name he can count this Liberal Democrate out. I will not stand by and watch Roe V Wade get overturned, I will not scream his name to see more young men die in Iraq, I will not scream his name to continue Fisa, I will not scream his name for Nafta, I will not scream his name for supporting guns. I am Democrat not a right wing nut job! We can still stop this, I going to pray and then stop telling everyone I know how great Obama is, I was wrong, and know I am Sad. Help me!

[KQuarksSuperKollider]

A previous post from your profile.

"As an HRC supporter, I have been following the PUMA movement and I assure you is very real.

You are misinformed that it is run by one person or group - It is not a single site but a coalition of hundreds of sites. "

You a PUMA trying to distort Obama's career long stance on Roe v. Wade. You have no credibility when you lie.

[txfriend]

Mental distress during pregnancy is not just depression. It can be severe depression and psychotic episodes or states. Pregnancy can have a very different effect on different women. This lawyer is trying to be doctor; but it's typical Obama- he doesn't give a damn about women or issues related to the lives of women. First Scarrlet Johansen got thrown under the bus, the MoveOn and now NARAL. Regardless of how one feels about the issue of abortion or in what stage a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy you can't force a woman to bring a child into this world. You can't have blanket rules because every womans reason can be different. This guy doesn't know anything about abortion - it's so obvious. I agree with Hillary- prevention is the key, effective birth control and addressing the reasons on why a woman would find herself in a situation such as this are critical to curbing abortions.

[4wehttam]

"It can be severe depression and psychotic episodes or states."

You just proved Gregory's point. If it causes HARM to the mother it is justified. Severe depression can be debilitating and psychosis can cause hallucinations which may prompt the mom to do harm to herself/baby.

[KQuarksSuperKollider]

No it's not about illness including mental illness. Nice spin though.

[Midnightrain]

Effective birth control is not the answer. Ending abuse against women is the answer. Holding women, sexuality, pregnancy and children in high value is the answer. Unfortunately, this culture cannot withstand that so it will always be plagued by issues such as abortion.

[dm92]

It is not obvious - so quit you bloviating. Late term abortions/BIRTHS are an ISSUE whether you want to deal with it or not. Believe it or not, there is a little bit of responsibility that comes with the ability to get pregnant - believe THAT or not. I support a woman's right to choose - I have sisters and two young daughters and, quite frankly, I would want to have that option for them if they end up in the wrong situation. I also expect anyone over the age of 10 to decide within the first 6 months (really 3 months) whether they want this baby or not. The babies can survive on their own in some of these late term cases - we are in different territory at that point. I'm quite aware that it is YOUR body - be responsible, adult and compassionate - it is NOT just about you. BTW, I am so left wing that I left the dems - but this late term abortion issue is just what the conservatives want you to argue about, because it makes a case for them that is not applicable to first term abortions - YOU CAN'T WIN ON THIS ISSUE IN THE LONG TERM - GIVE IT UP - THERE IS NO MORAL GROUND TO STAND ON HERE - MARK MY WORK - G-I-V-E I-T U-P!

[GnitenGoodLk]

If I hadn't read the article, I would've mistaken you for a real response. Phew. Literacy. Wonderful thing to promote.

"NARAL thrown under a bus"

Read the article. Naral endorsed his position. Troll

[TN]

He needs to just shut up and start attacking McSame on Iraq, Oil speculation, the GI bill, etc. Did he change his team of advisors, what is this? He is all over the map, I used to love him, now I have become indifferent.

[DGregory]

no what ur witnessing is general election spin on obamas words to give mccain a chance.

do what george carlin says and question what people type and what you read.

this is a topic of.... when did he change or say anything against what sane people think.

iraq? man said he will refine his policy.. thats a obama nono because since the public financing fiasco the media/mccain has been watching and trying to find instances of changing of positions by him.

cause if you look up the word refine, it means "to make better", but the media would have you belief he change his policy.

Nafta? durning the debate and campaign speeches he said nafta needs to be reworked. remember that time clinton hit him for a false thing about him liking nafta but what it said is that "trade is good only if its done properly" *paraphrasing*

in short, just relax in your chair cause your going to see more twisting of his words and you will wonder is he going crazy? the answer is no? the media/mccain twisting his words

[shep1900]

Does Senator Obama have even _one_ deeply-held belief--other than his desire to see himself elected?

Boy, did NARAL back the wrong horse!

What's next? Will he repudiate the 14th Amendment?

[williamg]

Your comment is a little over the top, don't you think?

[shep1900]

The presumed Democratic nominee has proven himself to be so expedient that somewhere even Richard Nixon is gasping.

[bosshogg]

ummm hillary has same view......oops

[DGregory]

if you dont understand whats being said in this article i dont know what to tell you.

read whats being said in it
"Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

i really think people get worked up for no reason.

use any examples you want to fit what goes in here.

1. mother just doesn't want the baby anymore because her husband left and she cant take care of it and shes 8 months pregnant, but shes "sad"
-This is someone using mental distress as a case for late term abortion

what people dont realize, is that, thats the roe vs wade legal jargon to guard against that example

BUT

2. mother is depressed because husband died when she was 5months pregnant and has completely stopped eating period for the large part of her pregnancy and became frail in which she went from 200lbs to 98, but she is 8 months pregnant. This mental distress caused her to become unhealthy that birth will either kill her or the baby.
This will warrant Late Term abortion

i dont understand why people are going crazy about this.

[KQuarksSuperKollider]

I see you are another PUMA. I know you are trying to distort Obama's long standing position for female reproductive issues to warrant voting for McBush but here's what McBush says on his own website about Roe v. Wade.

"Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat."

I guess you would spin it at least McBush takes a stance or something silly like that.

[JMorgan]

How is it that after reading this article, there are people asking if he's changed his position on other issues such as gay marriage? If he hasn't changed his position on an issue that, presumably affects you more directly, then his having flip-flopped in the last two weeks on at least five core issues important to Democrats isn't a big deal?

When did Obama get a license to practice medicine? When did he become a psychiatrist/psychologist?

The "mental distress" which leads to a late term abortion isn't frivolous or trivial. It's not, "i look like the back end of a truck, can't fit into my Calvins or Blahniks, so I'm terminating this pregnancy".

This is pandering of the worst sort, and this will end badly for him.

[FeloniouslyAnnoying]

I know I hate him for this. Its wrong on all sorts of levels and trivializes mental health problems.

What happened? is Obama 'Tom Cruise' now?

[rzan]

He is not tirivializing mental health problems, but it seems that you would rather hate him than face that fact. It must be so wonderful to be you.

[DGregory]

read whats being said in it again.
"Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

i really think people get worked up for no reason.

use any examples you want to fit what goes in here.

1. mother just doesn't want the baby anymore because her husband left and she cant take care of it and shes 8 months pregnant, but shes "sad" and nothing physically wrong with her.
-This is someone using mental distress as a case for late term abortion

what people dont realize, is that, thats the roe vs wade legal jargon to guard against that example

BUT

2. mother is depressed because husband died when she was 5months pregnant and has completely stopped eating period for the large part of her pregnancy and became frail in which she went from 200lbs to 98, but she is 8 months pregnant. This mental distress caused her to become unhealthy that birth will either kill her or the baby.
This will warrant Late Term abortion

i dont understand why people are going crazy about this.

[shep1900]

Could you maybe not post this same specious rebuttal repeatedly? It's facile and incorrect every single time.

[rzan]

Do you think that eight month gestational age baby is going to just evaporate. That very large product of conception has to be delivered somehow, so she is going to be going through a deilvery, like it or not.

[williamg]

Seriously, it gets so frusturating having to give point by point rebuttals, but what the heck has he flip flopped on? Feel free to post the "5 core issues" that you claimed he flip-flopped on, so I can educate you on his position being consistant.

This is becoming exhausting.

[JMorgan]

"This is becoming exhausting."

Then by all means, feel free to not trouble yourself where your "help" isn't needed nor solicited.

[closetodemfection]

Campaign Finance Reform
FISA
Guns
Iraq
NARAL's definition of a woman's right to choose

Go ahead, defend away.

[closetodemfection]

He doesn't support gay marriage because of his faith which is disturbing because that means it's a done deal with him. And I quote:

I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman. - O

[Retrofuturistic]

Why is it always men who are deciding these things FOR women?

And why is Obama suddenly changing his mind on everything, AFTER people have voted for him?

[allonfla]

Forgot to read the article did you? Especially the part where NARAL said he was being consistent.

[shep1900]

I wonder how many millions of dollars in donations they've lost since their endorsement. Supporting an anti-choice candidate isn't exactly going to restore their credibility--or their funding.

[metrext]

Since most everyone here would agree that killing outside of the womb is wrong, we are all drawing an arbitrary line to define when life begins.

Some use leaving the womb.
Some use the baby having a viable chance to survive on its own (inside the womb or out).
Some use a specific tri-mester.
Some use conception.

"One day it is, one day it isn't" is not a question. It is an accurate description of how life is created.

[MM5]

Was disappointed by his FISA stance but agree 100% with him on this one.

I think everyone who supports abortion should see an ultrasound of a baby in the first trimester before they decide it is okay(just as anyone who wears fur should see how the fur is obtained). I was pro-choice until I saw an ultrasound of my daughter at 10 weeks - she was fully formed, moving around waving her arms and legs. When I think of someone tearing apart a baby at that stage, it seems unbelievable that it is legal. It is dressed up nicely in politically correct and such justified language as "a woman's right to choose" - now what kind of reasonable person would be against that, right? Yes...I understand all the arguments about the baby being born into poverty, baby not being wanted etc but at least let us be honest about what abortion really is.

[Mekarri]

I am for abortions and a woman right to choose. That being said, I have never thought that it was right to have a late term abortion unless the mother life is in danger. I don't really understand how anyone could after the child starts moving around inside you. I know the first time I felt my child move there was no way I could have aborted her. I even missed having her inside me once I gave birth. So if a child can live outside of your body, you no longer have the option of an abortion.

[booksnmore4you]

>So if a child can live outside of your body, you no longer have the option of an abortion.

Democrat here.

Yea, really, that's what it all boils down to. Such abortions should not be legal.

[FeloniouslyAnnoying]

Maybe thats because your baby is was relatively healthy and free from a lifetime of physical and mental problems. Honestly I'm surprised by the general narcissism of many of my fellow Americans.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

[JMorgan]

Do you have a medical training, degree or license?

Do you know how many states permit late term abortions? Do you know how many physicians in the U.S. perform them? Do you know how many late term abortions are performed each year in the U.S., and why?

Do you know what anancephalic means? Do you know anyone who has been treated for mental/emotional problems? Have you yourself ever been treated for anxiety, depression? Do you hear voices, hallucinate, feel suicidal, despair?

Do you really feel qualified to make better decisions, for women you don't know, than they have made in consultation with their physicians and family?

[MM5]

Con't from above...

Perhaps my post was too emotional - maybe it is because I just had a baby and so I feel very sensitive about this topic. What I meant to say is that many people find it easy to be pro-choice because the baby/fetus seems abstract when compared to the mother. An title of "a woman's right to choose" removes the clinical aspect of the procedure. If we called "assisted suicide" something else like "a patient's right to choose", I feel pretty confident that many more people will be in support of it. The titles that we give are politically charged and prevent frank discussion on this and other controversial subjects. Bush has done this by calling the Iraq invasion "the war on terror". Because who could be against "the war on terror"?

This blog and many others are filled with politically correct posts on the abortion issue. I would simply say that people should at least make the effort to have some sort of personal understanding of this issue(on both sides) before coming to their opinion.

[MM5]

Actually...I am an MD... I thought it would be obnoxious to come on here and post my credentials so I did not. But since you asked...

Anencephaly(I will just point out that you have the spelling incorrect) is a condition where a major portion of the brain and skull fail to develop. The baby will either be stillborn or usually die soon after birth. This is quite obvious on ultrasound which is generally performed at least by 20 weeks gestation. There are also other screening tests that are done early in the pregnancy to check for neural tube defects that would result in conditions such as this.

You asked if I know about mental distress. I have taken care of patients with psychiatric disorders. My brother committed suicide at age 22. I think I have a reasonable understanding of mental distress.

I have taken care of pregnant teens. I have assisted in an abortion where the mother was in tears and I was in tears by the end looking at the bucket full of limbs and tissue knowing what a horrible decision this was for her.

Con’t below…

[MM5]

Con't from above...

Perhaps my post was too emotional - maybe it is because I just had a baby and so I feel very sensitive about this topic. What I meant to say is that many people find it easy to be pro-choice because the baby/fetus seems abstract when compared to the mother. An title of "a woman's right to choose" removes the clinical aspect of the procedure. If we called "assisted suicide" something else like "a patient's right to choose", I feel pretty confident that many more people will be in support of it. The titles that we give are politically charged and prevent frank discussion on this and other controversial subjects. Bush has done this by calling the Iraq invasion "the war on terror". Because who could be against "the war on terror"?

This blog and many others are filled with politically correct posts on the abortion issue. I would simply say that people should at least make the effort to have some sort of personal understanding of this issue(on both sides) before coming to their opinion.

[heal57]

I wish everyobody would stop talking about the most personal of all issues; a woman's choice to have a baby. That's all it is. it doesn't belong in politics and it doesn't belong in the Supreme Court and a bunch of old men have no right to even discuss it amongst themselves. We don't care what anybody thinks; that's their own personal opinions, but let me say this: there will never by anybody who will stop a woman from deciding her own fate with her own body. I say we women stand strong and do whatever the hell we want. without discussion unless we choose to have it ourselves.

[politricking]

Agreed.

[AntonBursch]

well, maybe i'll just stick my p*nis inside my wife's friend's v*gina when ever i want without regard for my wife because it's my body after all. maybe i'll get fixed so i won't get her friends pregnant. i don't need to tell my wife she can't get pregnant with me. it's my body. no, i don't need to discuss my body or what i do with it with my wife. she can go to h*ll if she doesn't like it. right? yeah. sounds like a plan for a happy marriage to me. now, i gotta go pay a prostitute to give me a disease. don't tell my wife. i sure won't.

[politricking]

imbecilic response not to mention disgusting.

[Alessan]

I really don't know what Obama means by mental distress. If a mother decides at 7 months to
have an abortion, because she is emotionally upset or feeling depressed, I agree it would not be
acceptable. But at late term if the mother is diagnosed bi-polar or schiizophrenic and needs medication she can be admitted to a hospital where thery will decide whether is it safe for the mother to continue carrying the baby to term under medical supervision without medication. It is not advisable take drugs for serious mental conditions while pregnant. You cannot blanket the decision to have an abortion or not whether early or late, it has to be decided case by case. Medical decisions should
not have to decided by a bunch of guys sitting around in robes, it's simply none of their business.
l

[allonfla]

Obama didn't make up the term Mental Distress. And if you can read English then you should not have to ask for an interpretation. Mental distress is NOT the same as bi-polar, that is a MENTAL ILLNESS. Just by being pregnant you have mental distress. You can have mental distress if you find out your husband has been cheating, or you lost your job and you are about to be a single mother.

[lboucher]

Obama must be told he needs to clarify his position on immediate with drawl from Iraq,gun control,late stage abortion and FISA or we will throw our support to Ralph Nader!!!

[politricking]

Withdraw your support/contributions and spread the word. Let him know we don't appreciate his weak move to the middle and his attempt to pander to anyone and everyone, especially Republicans and evangelicals which is what this is about.

FISA, death penalty, gun control, expanding faith based programs, refining Iraq, refining his foreign policy. What's next?

[williamg]

1) FISA -- "That's why I support striking Title II from the bill, and will work with Chris Dodd, Jeff Bingaman and others in an effort to remove this provision in the Senate."
- Barack Obama, July 3

2) Death Penalty -- "While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes — mass murder, the rape and murder of a child-so heinous...that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment." - Barack Obama (p. 58 Audacity of Hope)

3) Gun Control -- As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

- Barack Obama, Philadelphia primary debate, Apr 16, 2008

4) On Iraq -- "I will bring our troops out at a pace of one two brigades a month" which would mean the United States would be totally out of Iraq in 16 months. "That is what I intend to do as president of the United States." - Barack Obama, July 3.


There you have it, a point by point rebuttal. Feel free to actually get some facts right.

[DGregory]

weak move to the middle? i guess when the republicans or some magazine pegs "obama" as the most "liberal" senator. that sort of mentality sticks in the minds of people. As the old adage goes "i think therefore i am"

i guess you weren't hearing him talk about that "theirs no blue state or red state, but united states" did you think he was joking when he said months back that he wanted to work across the aisle?

fisa - immunities against civil lawsuits isnt unconstitutional. Retro activity immunity is unconstitutional if its for criminal lawsuits. He standing with dodd on the filibuster. But man.. to put this solely on obama is crazy. people should be email spamming there own state senators

death penalty - read audacity of hope

gun control -? wouldnt u be screaming unconstitutional like the screams on fisa if he said ban on right to bear arms?

faith base programs, audacity of hope is all i can say, man is a community organizer who is expanding this, to want church and secular organizations to work together, but for my 2cents, the man gives a set of rules where most likely only people like red cross could follow. Read over those rules for churches to get federal funding "lolz" is all i can say.

refining iraq - to make better? whats wrong with that?

[allonfla]

WHo is we? You don't speak for me!

[Genmaicha]

me either. You know looking at profiles of folks like lboucher and politricking it appears that they never were Obama supporters. Right now on this board there are a lot of people posing as disgruntled Obama supporters trying to influence and peel off a few percentage points to help McCain win.

[ChicagoPunk]

Here's a hint: If you're going to pretend you were a supporter, you might want to make a profile.

[GnitenGoodLk]

lol

[SecretSquirrel666]

Obama is a politician. He will pander to any crowd and say anything to get elected. He's just like any other politician. All the crap about change was simply the appropriate pandering for the anti Bush crowd. Oh, and he's pro-hope too. Have you ever heard of an anti-hope candidate?

[rosal]

666? That explains it

[Kalima]

Ok, JMc were heard you but we don't believe you.

[HumeSkeptic]

On gay marriage, 0bama seems to have moved to the Left. He is opposing efforts in California for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

Initially, he was for civil union, but stopped short of supporting gay marriage. Is that not true?

.

[pupbayer]

It's true that he's been for civil union and has opposed gay marriage.

I don't know anything about his opposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in CA. I did a quick search and found out about the initiative but nothing about Obama saying anything about it.

[HumeSkeptic]

I heard it on the radio (NPR, I think). He has come out against the amendment initiative.

[HumeSkeptic]

Here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ban2-2008jul02,0,757876.story

McCain, Obama quietly take opposing stands on California's same-sex marriage ban measure
McCain comes out in favor, Obama opposed. Though the issue is likely to have minimal bearing on the presidential race in California, the ramifications beyond could be profound, especially for the Repu

[LintLass]

Gay marriage bans have a tendency to have more involved than a distinction over the word 'marriage,' they often in effect ban civil unions, as well, I'll note. And there's a difference between not trying to push through full marriage rights in his presidency while support for that is soft, and supporting a measure to try and ban it forever.

[pupbayer]

And here's an article from the Advocate from June 20. 2008 saying Obama believes marriage is between a man and a woman but he supports equal rights for gay couples.

http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid56331.asp

I guess there is a difference between not believing in gay marriage and yet opposing a state constitutional amendment ban againt it. I'm going to have to think about this one.

[LintLass]

He's said as *President* he'd support civil unions legislation. Supreme Court rulings that point out it's *unconstitutional* to prohibit gay marriage aren't something I'd figure he'd be against, though they aren't actually part of the *job* he's running for. Civil unions are something a majority of Americans could support, but new gay *marriage* legislation doesn't have the support yet, so he wouldn't be proposing that.

[williamg]

You are right, he has moved to the left on that issue.

[TXfemmom]

You people need to understand that some of what they refer to as later-term abortions performed for the mother's mental distress refers to fetal anomalies inconsistent with survival.

I have given anesthesia for a few of these, and would now go to jail for doing so. We had to do late term what they refer to as abortions, but in reality they were to permit the fetus to be delivered vaginally so the uterus wouldn't have to be incised in two different directions, making it very likely that the mother would be unable to successfully carry another pregnancy, or put her very life at risk due to the likelihood that incising the uterus enough to get the fetus out could cause uncontrollable bleeding in the mother.

It is not a pretty thing to do, but it was not for me to decide, and it wasn't for me to decide to possibly endanger the mother or make it impossible to have another pregnancy safely. Be careful people, before you start going along blindly with what is said, when you don't fully understand the details. The pro-lifers use every maneuver and misrepresent things in order to get others to tow their line.

[HumeSkeptic]

Thank you for the excellent post. It supports the position that politicians should not be prescribing "one criterion fits all" solutions for these issues. It should be up to the doctors and the patient.
.

[GnitenGoodLk]

Absolutely agree.

[sdskelton03]

Yes, you are correct about some of the late term abortions performed for reasons of mental distress. However many, many others use the mental distress diagnosis for what is certainly an elective procedure.

[peacekitten]

great post. very informative.

[williamg]

God, even though I agree with banning some late-term abortions, it's hard to argue with your comment. Now I'm really confused.

[GnitenGoodLk]

"put her very life at risk " Most late term abortions performed due to severe anomaly resulting in low survival or still birth fall under this category.

The situation described above is covered by Obama as "life at risk" which falls outside the mental distress description. Key words.

The above description would not be barred under what Obama supported. All OB docs would recognize that. Some nurse practitioners might as well. This would be between the doctor and the mother. An anesthesiologist may have to rely on the attending OB to authorize it, or can refuse if they're not sure.

[TXfemmom]

I hope all you Obamathans are happy. This man is dumping crap and moving to the right so far that Limbaugh is going to like thim. All of you fools just stood and drooled over this person, and never required facts, THE COLD, HARD FACTS, if you will, from him.

When he meant CHANGE, he meant he wanted to change everything the Democratic Party has fought for all these years.

[HumeSkeptic]

There is not much new in 0bama's position. It is a wrong position, but it is not a move to the Right. What do you consider his biggest move to the Right?

I am not happy about everything, but I think he is far better than HRC and far far better than Mc Cain. That's all that really matters now.

[Rockerbabe]

Welcome to my world; I have been holding my nose and voting for this or that boy for whatever office I am suppose to vote on since 1970. I am sick an tired of all this nose holding. Senator Obama is being to show his true colors!
Write-in voting is allowed in all 50 states: my choice is Senator Hillary Clinton.

[Gondo]

Don't worry TXfemmom, once he's in he will go way back to the left.

[HumeSkeptic]

From your keyboard to God's ears. Let's keep our fingers crossed. I hope he doesn't force me to hold my nose with one hand as I cast my vote for him.

[moderate1]

So you're saying he will dupe the populace into voting for him by claiming more moderate policies, but will then turn his back on them once in office? Sounds like you're calling Obama a liar. Haven't you all accused George Bush of doing this?

[sdskelton03]

Although I believe Mr. Obama's position on the "mental distress" part of the health exception to be an honest breath of fresh air, I wonder how the hard line pro choice community is going to take it.

For as long as I can remember, there has been next to zero tolerance in the Democratic party for any breach of the complete pro-choice orthodoxy.

Will the Emily's list, Now and Naral folks cause a stink about this, or will they just let it slide. I am very interested to see what happens next.

[dattexas]

I agree with you. I'm pro choice, but I like Barrack's stance on this issue. We'll see if the far lefties get their panties in a bunch.