Jewish Dem Ire Boils Over On Lieberman

The Hill:

Jewish Democrats are anxious that Sen. Joe Lieberman's support for Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) will hurt their own nominee's chances with voters of their faith.

Their increasing frustration came to a head Wednesday when liberal activists and bloggers dropped off a petition calling for Democratic leaders to remove Lieberman, an Independent from Connecticut who caucuses with the Democrats, as chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee in the next Congress. The petition contained 43,000 signatures.

Read the whole story: The Hill

Comments

[Crake]

Why should we support the apartheid regime of Israel and condemn Palestinian children to death? We should have divested from South Africa and we should divest from Israel until they stop their apartheid government.

[Egalitare]

Many Israeli citizens realize that some accomodation must be reached with the Palestinians. But because our MSM is addicted to Conflict, unauthorized settlers in the West Bank get more attention than the huge number of Palestinians who live side-by-side peacefully with their Israeli neighbors. You'd never know that there are Arab members of the Knesset (there are currently 12) if you assume that AIPAC presents a "fair and balanced" picture of the situation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Knesset_members
I hope that in my lifetime I will see news stories of Palestinians complaining about how difficult it is to pry tourists away from Tel Aviv to come to their beaches in Gaza.

[GZLives]

Why not tell Crake up there that his Palestinians aren't interested in Peace - they want all of Israel. The elected Hamas who's agenda is stated clearly in their charter which calls for the murder of the Jews. They broadcast to their children cartoon shows glorifying the murder of Jews and becoming a Shaheed (martyr) going immediately to Paradise upon murdering a Jew.

They want what they call the "1 State solution" or they want the "right of return" where 600,000 original "refugees" get to come back with all their descendants now about 4 or 5 million thus ending the Jewish state of Israel. Explain that Arafat clearly described what his "Palestinians" were all about when he named them ... they were to be the wedge used by the Arab world to keep the Jews out.

Explain to Crake that Apartheid isn't in the country where 20% is Arab and non Jewish, where their minority has a free press, has many political parties and enjoys more rights in Israel then they would in any of their Arab countries. If it was so bad, why has the Arab population increased by NINE TIMES since 1948 ...

[ReasonIsMyReligion]

Kudos on the graceful come-back.

[Cynth]

Terrific point -- thanks!

[Cynth]

My original comment wasn't approved (although it didn't contain anything inappropriate), so I will state it differently....

Lieberman consistently puts another country's interest before the those of the U.S....that drives his move towards the Republicans.

[speakingtruth2power]

The rethugs put party before country and Joe puts another country before

America. I guess that makes them strange bed partners to say the least!

[GZLives]

You have some evidence of this Cynth? Please post it.

Supporting Israel and support of the war against Jihadis who are at war with not only the US and Israel but cause murder and mayhem on a weekly basis in India, in Thailand, Philippines, China ...
does not mean you put some other country's interest before your own.

Jews are allowed to have opinions and certainly allowed to support Israel without having to defend their loyalty or do you believe Jews are unlike any other Americans and support of Israel makes their loyalty to America suspect?

I support America, many of my family died fighting in wars in America, and I support Israel and support the war against Islamists ... does that make me a traitor too?

[Cynth]

[Part 2]

No one is saying that Israel isn't important to the M.E. or to our foreign policy. However, the solution to our national security as it concerns violent Islamists should no longer center on Israel. It should involve other countries in the region and involve diffusing conflict and concerns among various parties. I don't see Lieberman considering this and it seems his perspective is more aligned with hawkish Israelis (I don't see Israelis as homogenous, either). Doing so only serves to entrench those who oppose the US and Israel and only associate the US with Israel, and reinforce in them the idea that both countries are their adversaries. Politics of the M.E. is complex and I don't claim to have definitive answers, but I do recognize the futility of our current approach. Liebermann can support Israel and be anti-Islamist, as he wishes, as you do, I as do; however, the way to do it is to have a clear understanding of new regional dynamics, to balance the interests of those who approach the table reasonably, and to ensure that the US does not further erode its credibilty, global leadership, and security. We can accomplish more by minimizing the perception of blind loyalty and bias (especially in support of countries not our own). And regarding the security of Israel, we've seen how the stick approach (defense, aside) has not proven to be a long-term solution and has not advanced peace and stability in the M.E.

[Cynth]

[Part 2]

My point is that, as a US Senator, Lieberman's near preoccupation with Israel has brought him closer to hawkish Republicans and displaced other domestic and international interests important to the U.S. Lieberman has lost focus on the values of Democrats, lost sight of US interests, and his bias has moved him across the aisle. (BTW, I am a voter, but unaffiliated with any party.) This is evident in his record in the Senate, including his position on the Iraq war. It is also evident in news statistics: A LexisNexis search for the past year (July to July) alone shows that Lieberman's news coverage was associated with Israel 70.3% of the time (out of 1000 total news hits). Compare that to Biden, another senior Senator whose interests involve foreign policy, whose news coverage involved Israel 51.8% of the time (out of just under same number of total news hits). Biden was also running for the Office over this period and coverage of his Middle East policy was understandably a major focus.

[Cynth]

My response exceeds the word limit, so I'm posting in 3 parts:


My comment was about Lieberman, not Jews. And you assume much about me in your comments. Belonging myself to a group of people who have been persecuted in this country, having Jewish lineage on one side of my family, and having members of my family who have sacrificed for this country, I wouldn't dream of making blanket statements about groups of people and question their loyalty or patriotism. And, as we can see from the many posts in this thread, Jews are not a politically homogenous group and Liebermann does not represent the views of all Jewish Americans.

[somekid1234]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RysZy331YK0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RysZy331YK0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RysZy331YK0

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html?hp

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html?hp

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html?hp

[rtnd22]

I dont mean to be rude, but with all of the issues going on in the USA ..I dont know like high gas prices, economy in the tank, liberties being taken away..ISRAEL is not high on the priority list right now we have OUR OWN PROBLEMS believe me the average American is not going to say, I know that I am struggling right now but I dont think Barack is in full support of Israel so I will be voting for McCain...this shows how leardership is out of touch...How about going to Dafur and save those folks...Oh I forgot no intrest there...

[rosal]

I think Israel can take care of itself. We need to take care of our country first. I am sure you always thought of voting for McLame, so stop the acting.

[Stirner]

Rosal, thanks for your direct and simple statement. You are correct. I live near Philadelphia. We cannot go into most sections after the sun sets (and sometimes at High Noon) because of the violence and killings. Where is Uncle Sam? Why, off helping the rest of the world! Ah well, perhaps more home foreclosures, more unemployment, more debt, more war and death, might, eventually come to the notice of our Sheepie populace and make them wonder if all of the fuss in and about that Mideast cesspool is worth it. Yes, let the Israelis take care of themselves. They stole our Atomic Bomb secrets and now have around 300 or so (keep this a "secret"). Can Uncle Sam be persuaded to come home? OH! Heaven Forbid! He might be called "antisemitic"! -- It will be interesting to see just how much more the good Uncle (and bad Father) can take before being willing to be spurned by AIPAC.

[Hesperion]

you fail to comprehend that Israel IS at the bottom of many, many of the turmoil the U.S. has become mired in. AIPAC uses it's considerable clout to demand that Israel is treated as if it were one of the American states. You are right, we have our own problems. It would be wonderful to be able to concentrate of solving some of them but a MAJOR obstacle to doing that IS ISRAEL! If, as you say, you will be voting for McCain based on any flimsy reasoning you may be unable to grasp any of this anyway.

[GZLives]

Liar ... you have no evidence of these lies.
Why not simply tell the truth .. you do not trust Jews, you believe they are the cause of all our problems and apparently through a lobbying organization they control our country - isn't that exactly what you're saying here ?

Wanna see how Israel plays an integral role in US policy and why it better be front and center ?

Iran refuses to stop edging towards nuclear status. The west refuses to take any additonal steps to stop Iran. Iran hands off a suitcase nuke to Hezbollah which is used to take out an Israeli city. Israel responds by taking out an Iranian city. Iran responds by attacking the US troops, closing the Straits of Hormuz where 40% of the world's oil supply travels through, and the world economies sink like rocks ....

Do you get why Israel is important now?

[CtJean]

I think you didn't understand what rtnd22 was saying. Re-read his comment. Voting for Mword is not how he feels. He's saying this is what many people are saying.

[spiderbucket]

You don't think issues relating to Israel shaped everything we have done in the Middle East in the lastr several decades ? You don't think the Middle East (with TWO wars going on involving our troops) is a high priority ?

[geobushono]

so after opening with "but with all of the issues going on in the USA ....(and)...ISRAEL is not high on the priority list right now we have OUR OWN PROBLEMS..."
That's what you say and THEN turn around and say.......I dont think Barack is in full support of Israel so I will be voting for McCain...

Have you ever considered how confused you are about what you really believe.............WE here know what you consider important you told us, after denying it. You'll be real comfortable with the repugs.

[Grunty1]

You misread the post. Quotes would have helped:

the average American is NOT going to say," I know that I am struggling right now but I dont think Barack is in full support of Israel"

[somekid1234]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html?hp

[RJII]

i'm wondering if LIebermann is to Jews, as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are to blacks.

[speakingtruth2power]

I'm wondering what in your heart makes you wonder that?

[BEHM777]

Black America is not monolithic in thought, word or deed. Some love Jesse and Al. Some don't. I recognize that both men are flawed human beings. They are both capable of and have done good. The reverse is true as well. We aren't into hero worship like that--at least not my generation.

BEHusseinM777

[brwnizofmine]

I for one love both Jesse and Al Sharpton, but Obama was correct in what he said on Father's Day. Why do we as blacks have to hate one to love the other? It's just a new day and Barack is the man and I can't wait until November. He's for all of the people.

Obama 08

[GZLives]

Personally I detest Lieberman, but I detest much more the rank Jew bashing I see here and would rather support Lieberman then give the Jew bashers any help ...

The endless claims with no evidence questioning Lieberman's loyalty to the US is disgusting and the Jews on the Left here ought to explain to their Leftists brethren that questioning our loyalty because we have strong opinions and support Israel is bullshit ...

[1099]

No he's not. Please don't lump him in with Jesse and Big Al. It's just silly and insulting.

[ShamusNYC]

The repubs have made the situation in the mid-east a disaster. Iran would not be this much of an issue but for the horrible way that the war was handled. Also, the anti-US feelings rub off onto Israel.

Joey L is... who knows? What a disappointment

[oogabooga]

Does Joe realize that Obama is running for president of the USA and not of Israel?

[genia]

You got to wonder what....job is he auditioning for? What has McCain promised him?

[Xenopus]

Joe Lieberman backs the guy who wants our young men and women to do the fighting for Israel in the Middle East. It's all about the U.S. fighting the wars rather than Israel. Bush is there for oil. Lieberman wants us there to protect Israel. And McCain just wants us there and in Iran fighting.

[GZLives]

I have no respect to a poster who makes this lying idiotic and disgusting claim.
No American is fighting for Israel and no American ever has ...

[DanteForClinton]

Joe was treated like crap by certain Dems and the progressives who invaded the DNC. Joe was one of the most liberal Democrats in the Senate, he just happened to honest about how he felt about the war in Iraq.

One issue haters went after Joe and that fool who ran against Joe? Where is he now? Then we have all the Jew haters getting cover by the anti-war at any cost wing-nuts who happen to be Jewish,

Joe was an honorable liberal and he was treated like dirt over ONE issue.

Shame on those who went against Joe. Shame!

[JoeBlough]

Joe was honorable. But like most politicians, he became dis-honorable.

[Cybesq]

Lieberman has been a disgrace and he was not treated like dirt over ONE issue. When Michael Schiavo wanted to see Terri Schiavo die gracefully, Joe sided with the science ignorant right wing fanatic fundamentalists. Shameless pandering.

Lieberman has been a frequent guest on Sean Hannity's program for mindless Republican sheep and he continues to bad mouth his former party at every opportunity. Forgetting the famous Bush hug and kiss, the ultimate traitorous act was to support Sam Fox as ambassador to Belgium. The same Sam Fox that organized the swift boat liars that contributed to the defeat of John Kerry.

Joe Lieberman has every right to his position on the war but I blame him for political ineptitude, and horrendous disloyalty. His actions have been nothing short of childish and petulant.

By the way, I am Jewish and find Lieberman to be an utter embarrassment to the Democratic party.

[GZLives]

Thank you poster for saying it exactly as it really is.
I watched Lieberman supporter Lany Davis when he was on CSPAN during the Dem Primary which Lieberman lost. The call ins to the show that morning were mostly rank anti Semites accusing Lieberman of all the usual lies, the disloyalty, AIPAC nonsense, Jew bash after Jew bash and frankly Davis and even Brian Lamb were pretty shaken up at how many creeps like this were supposedly supporting Lamont. It seemed that the Lamont side did more winking at this then condemning it and it was truly disgusting.

Democrats need to rein this crowd in because its more then difficult to rationalize voting side by side with the same gang who seems to have no problem turning to rank Jew baiting at the drop of a dime.

[jeanrenoir]

Thank God that liberal Jews are getting active now in opposing the neocon Jews, for whom Lieberman is figurehead No. 1. First, the neocons made a deal with Texas oil interests so that Cheney and Bush would pursue a proxy war against Iraq for Israel, the worst and most unpopular foreign policy disaster in American history. Now, the neocons, Lieberman, and their pals Cheney and Bush are either going to bomb Iran for Israel, before Obama gets in in January, or they're going to try to justify Israel's bombing of Iran to the American people. Whether we bomb Iran or Israel does, as the reaction of the oil market and the stock market demonstrated today in response to a heightened threat of an Iranian War, the price of oil will double or triple overnight. That will mean $10 or $15 a gallon gas at the pump for the American masses, unaffordable heating oil for them in the winter, completely demolished world stock markets and thus the wiping out of American middle-class savings in mutual funds, and a worldwide Depression. We all know how incredible stupid and incompetent Cheney, Bush, the neocons, and their Israeli puppeteers have been in Iraq. But if they bomb Iran and basically wipe out the world economy and the savings of the American public, not to mention their jobs, does anyone seriously believe that enraged Americans won't blame Israel for their plight?

[LarBear]

And WE would blame Israel,....... why? And, Obama, who did not have the spine (Being Kind) to act on his Oath of Office and Defend and Protect the Constitution, is to be our great savior? What Movie are we speaking of again? Let me understand this.. The Bush/Cheney Administration is about to go out of business, so the Israelis will risk ALL to please Bush/Cheney? Do you think they are that easily jerked around? And, what would they gain for putting their Nation at Risk?

[mcole]

lol. if thats being kind why dont you just spear him in the ribs? for the sake of kindness....

[ObserverinVancouver]

"Something like that [dumping him] wouldn’t really be talked about until the end of the year,” [Sen.] Stabenow said. Yes, indeedy, in January Sen. Lieberman is going to find the Senate colder than Siberia when the Dems can dispense with him and still have control of the Senate. People who want him dumped now have to realize that it would give control of the Senate back to the Republicans (because Cheney has tie-breaking vote).

[MrsPeel]

Not if Dems and Independents don't calm down about Obama. If they stay home, we're screwed.

[Skye]

Every time I see something written about Lieberman that has to do with Jews I want to scream. He's really not all that important to us. In fact most of us hate the guy. Russ Feingold is also Jewish, can't we get credit for him?

[NTO08]

Of course not...because anti-Semites on the far left blame Israel for all ills...ce plus change...in the Middle Ages, it was the Jews' fault, in 1933 Berlin, it was the Jews' fault...can we move on?

[Rxman]

You seem to confuse anti-Israeli with anti-Semite.

I have yet to meet a far left anti-Semite. To the contrary, it would be hard to be far left and hate Jews.

[focher]

I am outraged about this ... because I did not know there was a petition I could sign.