Are Obama And McCain Ebbing Or Flowing?

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First Posted: 07-15-08 09:15 PM   |   Updated: 07-23-08 05:12 AM

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Mccain And Obama

About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. Bush, who would you vote for? Obama crushed Bush 54-34.

Noting that tracking polls generally show just a 2 to 4 point edge for Obama over John McCain, Castellanos said the most obvious conclusion is that "McCain is not Bush." But more importantly, Castellanos argued, "It means McCain is not running against the Obama who won Iowa, but [against] the more polarizing Democrat [who] Hillary Clinton was beating like a drum in Texas, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, etc."

In the current political environment, according to Castellanos, "where the GOP is in disgrace, the President is unpopular, gasoline is 5 bucks a gallon, housing prices are sinking, and the economy is in the toilet," Obama's slim lead "means he is not an acceptable Democrat. . . . Obama is in big trouble."

Rasmussen himself is not prepared to draw such dramatic conclusions, but he does think the data send a clear warning to the Obama camp:

"The basic question of this race is whether Obama can pass a certain threshold and be deemed 'acceptable' by enough people to move into the White House. Alex [Castellanos] says Obama is not acceptable. I say we don't know yet....For the first time in a long time, what the candidates and campaigns do in the fall will determine the winner."

While Castellanos is a Republican and Rasmussen is a conservative, a number of Democrats are voicing concerns about the quality of the Obama campaign.

Donna Brazile, who ran Al Gore's 2000 campaign, said the Obama campaign has had a "lousy start to the general election. Although the political environment continues to favor Obama and the Democrats, the candidate is still not fully on four cylinders."

Brazile is also critical of the McCain campaign, voicing what is becoming an increasingly widely held view that the two candidates are both failing to take full advantage of the ineptitude of the other. "McCain cannot seem to find a good team to help highlight all of his personal advantages. He must figure out how to distance himself from Bush without alienating the conservative base he needs to win in November," Brazile said.

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A key Democratic player in the 2004 contest, who requested anonymity, voiced a similar "pox on both your houses" assessment of the prospective nominees:

"The Obama campaign has become everything that caused the Clinton campaign to falter -- arrogance, 'no way we can get beat by that guy' mentality -- play it safe -- hold on to the lead mentality. With all that McCain is up against - the Bush years, a crumbling Republican Party -- and 15 months of 'Obama is amazing,' [McCain] should not be within single digits of Obama - particularly since he has run one of the worst campaigns in decades -- but he is still within striking distance."

Bob Beckel, who managed Walter F. Mondale's 1984 campaign, argues that Obama has lost his edge because he has started to follow the advice of political consultants - like Beckel himself:

"I finally got it. While I was holding Obama to a typical political standard, his supporters' standard, forged in the snows of Iowa and New Hampshire, was more elevated and exacting. To them, the 'Obama of Winter' had been a calling, while the [current] 'Obama of Summer' was causing an uncomfortable disconnect....My sense is that much of the reaction can be laid at the feet of the growing number of political advisers surrounding him. Political consultants, especially at the presidential level, are a cautious breed. Their instinct is to dumb down the candidates positions to the lowest common denominator to avoid offending the most number of voters."

Dan Gerstein, who ran Senator Joe Lieberman's 2006 Connecticut re-election campaign, argued that both Obama and McCain face huge obstacles, but that Obama has done a better job climbing over them:

"Obama has to quickly convince the millions of swing voters who will decide this race that he is not a Black Panther or Muslim stalking horse and that he is qualified to be commander in chief, after three-plus years in the U.S. Senate and no military experience. . . .McCain has to carry the twin albatrosses of a hugely unpopular and divisive president and a hugely unpopular and divisive shooting war; he must manage the ever-present tensions between his maverick record/tendencies and the demands of his base, and as a result spend critical energy every day just in preventing a right-wing revolt; and on top of all that, he must confront doubts about his age from across the political spectrum, and particularly among older voters who should be one of his most target-rich demos for poaching would-be Obama supporters."

In that context, Gerstein argued, "it seems no contest that Obama has run a better and tighter campaign. . . .a clear, consistent compelling message" promoted by a "very disciplined and effective" team. Conversely, Gerstein contends, McCain has failed to develop a rationale for his campaign "above and beyond his biography -- so far you could best describe his message as 'I'm old and white'."

Castellanos sharply disputed this assessment of the Republican candidate. "If McCain is doing so poorly, why is he doing so well?," Castellanos asked. "Could McCain have done a better job using his money and time this spring? Perhaps. but if you had asked the McCain folks back in March if they would be happy with a campaign that had them essentially tied with Obama with only a little more than 100 days to go, they would have asked, 'where do we sign?'"

About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. ...
About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. ...
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- bobsmith I'm a Fan of bobsmith 8 fans permalink

Enthusiasm for O has vanished among many since he has shown himself to be just another Republican-lite sell-out. The "hope" he generated has turned into cynicism. He'll probably get a lot of those votes in the end, but I'm hearing people who were enthusiastic before who view him as a liar and a fraud now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 07/15/2008
- Peteyman I'm a Fan of Peteyman 2 fans permalink

Right, and I'm sure the 40 people who back you up are faithfully nodding their heads.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 07/16/2008
- strandwolf I'm a Fan of strandwolf 6 fans permalink

And that's just on Bob's own block....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 AM on 07/16/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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Tell Castellanos that it's too early to poll and draw far reaching conclusions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 07/15/2008
- lafrance I'm a Fan of lafrance 43 fans permalink

I so disagree with all of the article.
For one, alot of people, mostly democrats, are burned out after an extra long and brutal primary season and are taking a break from politics. They simply have turned it off.
For another, Obama has come off a 18 month priimary campaign that was extremely brutal and a party divided by two hard fought campaigns. He's has to go immdiately to the general election, consolidate a party behind him and take the leadership over, raise money for Hillary's very large debt and prepare a convention.
Obama has had zero time off, zero time to do all these things above in a manner most nominees have and to incorporate more and more staff to ready for the general election.
And with democrats, they are largely factions in a party and demand the nominee pay attention to just them and their needs and wants.
Give the man a chance to pull all the strings together and catch his breath.
on top of it all, he's had hostile press. They have largely been lying with the reporting without fact checking the McCain spin because they love McCain and think everything he says is written in stone.
So, Obama has had to battle against a continued storyline based on lies that he is flipping flopping on issues and moving to the center.
That is a big waste of his time that he could have spent taking care of the other pressing matters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 07/15/2008
- Bagger I'm a Fan of Bagger 17 fans permalink
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Nice post. I agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 07/16/2008

Look, seriously.

We have a LOT of ammo!!!

We have to use it somewhere??!!?

Invest your money wisely in a War profiteering Corporation and you wouldn't be in the financial mess your in. Get with the program.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 PM on 07/15/2008
- ShamusNYC I'm a Fan of ShamusNYC 14 fans permalink

Obama should be up bigger and they just need to show the broader American audience what McB & his surrogates really say: no difference on the economy, etc..; how silly the energy plan is (gas tax holiday? off-shore drilling? pandering moves to benefit big oil); surge did not work by the criteria that they laid out (look versus objectives); McB has bad judgment; etc..

Then they can get really nasty by having an outer-loop arm and a half's length surrogate start saying that McB's not that bright. Not stupid - but not Presidentially bright (though they did support Bush) - might peel off a few points.

Finally, need to strongly show O as strong on defense and make the argument that McB is a war-monger who doesn't know how to exercise diplomacy - even the admin has reversed course on Iran. The nail in the coffin would be a Colin Powell endorsement. Powell's endorsing McB would not hurt O that badly.

All the material is there - the McB team's given O all he needs to win.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 07/15/2008

Shamus

If you know all the WORDS for a good strategy and Obama and his handlers' vocabulary is so limited, it seems to me that you might be smarter them.

You should just go on their web site and give them your ideas.

If you take an empty suit from its rack it will not stand up.

COGITO, ERGO SUM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 AM on 07/16/2008

The betting markets are traditionally more accurate than polling.... at the moment
- $1 bet on Obama will return you $1.43.
- $1 bet on Mccain will return $3.65

Pretty good odds for Obama I think... but with the mother of all fear campaigns about to start... and retoric stepping up about a pre-emptice attack on Iran.... I am going to put $10 on McCain...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Current Intrade buy:

Obama - 65
McCain - 29.8

http://www.intrade.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 07/16/2008
- Bagger I'm a Fan of Bagger 17 fans permalink
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Doesn't mean squat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 07/16/2008
- Okieborn I'm a Fan of Okieborn 76 fans permalink

If Sen. Obama can't hustle up a much bigger lead on Mccain=Bush before long he might be singing the election day blues,and son that ain't gonna be funny !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 07/15/2008
- bascombe I'm a Fan of bascombe 45 fans permalink
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the polls are controlled.
the questions are skewed.
the reports are sensationalized.
the people are screwed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 PM on 07/15/2008

but dont you worry
dont you fear
the great great man
called OBAMA is here

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 07/15/2008

Most of the nationwide polls are funded by MSM. It is in their self interest that the campaign be kept close. If you think they don't manipulate the polls you need to wake up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 07/16/2008

Johnny McBlast will be a flowin and a blowin...blowin stuff up!!!! WOOT

I think he'll make Bruce Willis a 5 Star General.

EXPLOSIONS!!!!!!

This is gonna be great

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 PM on 07/15/2008

that arrogance obama has, the presidential seal, the stadium nomination speech, the holier than though mentality will hurt him later on. people like confidence, but people hate arrogance. the same arrogance the clintons had, he now posses.

with the amount of media 'positive' attention and popularity that obama gets. im surprised he's only ahead, at the most, by 4-5 points, even tied in others. which goes to show mccain is not a typical bush republican. almost as many people view mccain as favorably.

obama has been looking more and more like a conventional politician. saying whatever to get elected. (what he accused clinton of doing) he has also flip flopped on core issues in fear of being called too liberal. its understandable when a candidate changes positions. but remember, obama is supposed to be a 'new kind of politician'

its clearly showing that HE IS NOT!.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 07/15/2008

if americans hate arrogance so much, what the hell is George W Bush doing in the White House? the only arrogance white America won't tolerate historically is the kind that comes from uppity blacks -- of which the super-educated, over-achieving Barack Obama fits the bill. So long as the arrogant posturing comes in the form of simple wording and a southern accent, that arrogance seemly perfectly acceptable mode of being.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 PM on 07/15/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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Once people see the real warmongering old geezer that he is, Mc Can will be toast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 07/15/2008

Look you Liberal Nubs. Johnny McBlast is FLOWIN!

He's on to the CzechIranianIraqiRagheadi's. HE WILL DESTROY THEM! Oh wait, he's gonna defend the Czechs against the evil U.S.S.R...you know the COMMIE Bastiges.

Anyway, who cares about details when your gonna have the fire power he'll have!!!! WOOT!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 PM on 07/15/2008
- PumaAnn I'm a Fan of PumaAnn 27 fans permalink

Well, we all know Obama now. That's the difference. I think he peaked in February.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 07/15/2008
- firewmn I'm a Fan of firewmn 66 fans permalink
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PUMA = Punishment Under McCain Administration...

I saw this earlier, thought you might like it..!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 07/15/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1680 fans permalink
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You also peaked in February.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 AM on 07/16/2008
- polaris12 I'm a Fan of polaris12 17 fans permalink

Bob Bekel is right - too many political consultants. Obama's got to go back to his inspiring message of change and forget all this malarkey about moving to the center. This centrist stuff gives the impression he is wishy-washy rather than having strong principles. Also there is no way he can convince some people that he is not a Muslim. That's what they want to believe and don't want to hear the contrary. I thought his speech on Iraq strategy was well thought out and makes a great deal of sense, but this is not the kind of thing that is going to thrill and activate his base or necessarily attract undecided voters. The real test will come when the public sees them debating face to face and can get a better comparative idea. Right now they are just separate news clips on the various channels. But in the end, if the Democrats can't beat John McCain, under present conditions, they'd better close down the party and go into some other business.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Obama knows what he is doing. Under the surface of the daily soundbites, they have what Nate Silver refers to as "Shock and Awe, Paid organizer version" Here is how he puts it:

"In Missouri, Obama will have 150 paid organizers and maintain a 12-1 paid organizer edge in my native state. Show-me, indeed. In Michigan, Obama will put an unprecedented 150 field organizers on the ground. In Ohio, why not go for 300 field organizers? That sounds like a nice, absurdly large, round number.

This is the campaign equivalent of invasion with overwhelming force. In the coming days, we should be hearing more reports like these from other battlegrounds (here's Iowa, for example), giving us a clearer and clearer picture of each campaign’s voter contact strategy. Already, however, Marc Ambinder has pointed out that:

The polls don't account for the force multiplier effect that Obama's campaign will almost certainly bring to bear with its millions of volunteers and thousands of paid staffers. Whether that effect is 1.01, 1.05 or even 1.3 -- we don't know yet. But even the McCain campaign acknowledges its existence."

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/07/shock-and-awe-paid-organizer-version.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 07/15/2008
- PumaAnn I'm a Fan of PumaAnn 27 fans permalink

I thought it sounded defensive about the surge, but then I prefer straight talk types. Obama's style has never appealed to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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The 'Bosnia under sniper fire' straight talk types?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 07/15/2008
- Davwbaird I'm a Fan of Davwbaird 24 fans permalink
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obama is not moving to the centre, the pundits try to do that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 07/16/2008
- StillIRise I'm a Fan of StillIRise 614 fans permalink
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During the primary, Obama was surrounded with fewer advisors. Now, as the presumptive Democratic nominee, more of the Democratic leadership is involved in his campaign, and he's probably receiving advice from every point of view, even from some who seek to sabotage his candidacy.

From my perspective, Senator Obama has always been a centrist. During the primary, he was competing with another Democrat, one who is further to the right, which perhaps gave the impression that he was more left than he is. But Senator Obama is running to be the President of all Americans, not just the left-wing of the Democratic Party, and not even just Democrats. Contrary to President Bush who proved to be the president of the far right and neocons, I want a Democratic president who shares the fundamental values and vision of the Party, but who has a broad and inclusive perspective of our country. I do not expect to always agree with him, and sometimes he will change his mind as circumstances dictate. But I trust him to govern our nation with the integrity that is consistent with his character, and that has been demonstrated throughout his campaign. Senator Obama's greater challenge is not John McCain; it is the fears of ordinary Americans. But if America can get beyond their fears, the choice between Obama and McCain will be clear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 AM on 07/16/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Oh please, this race isn't close. Let's deal with facts: You win buy getting 270 electoral votes. This is a state by state race -- let's look at the state polls released in the last 48 hours:

Michigan: Obama +8. This is a 5 point Obama gain since last Rasmussen poll. Kerry won the state by 3.5%.

Iowa: Obama +10. This is a 3 point Obama gain since last Rasmussen poll. Bush won state by less than 1% in 2004.

Minnesota: Obama +17 This is a 4 point Obama gain since last Rasmussen poll. Kerry won state by 3.5% is 2004.

Colorado: Obama +4. This is the first PPP poll conducted in the state. Bush carried the state by 5 points in 2004

Louisiana - McCain +19. This is a 10 point McCain gain since last Rasmussen poll. Bush won the state by 14.5% in 2004 election.

South Dakota - McCain +4. This is a 6 point Obama gain since last Rasmussen poll. Bush carried the state by 21.5% in 2004 election.

National polls mean nothing, since the national popular vote does 'Not' decide the election. Hilllary was ahead - by almost 30 points - 5 weeks before the primaries started. We all know how that turned out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 07/15/2008

all that can change. and it is close considering the hype surrounding obama.

hillary was ahead. now, obama is ahead. he too can suffer the same fate. kerry in july of 04 was also ahead of the idiot bush.

anything can happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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What are you talking about? He is way ahead in states that Democrats aren't supposed to be way ahead. John McCain has to defend:

Iowa (Obama ahead by 7.4)
Colorado (Obama ahead by 3.6)
Virginia (Obama ahead by 2.8)
New Mexico (Obama ahead by 10.6)
Nevada (McCain ahead by 2.1)
Indiana (Obama ahead by .2)
Montana (Obama ahead by 5)
North Dakota (tied in only poll, released last week)
South Dakota (McCain ahead by 4)
Ohio (Obama ahead by 3.9)
Georgia (McCain ahead by 2.8)
North Carolina (McCain ahead by 0.4)

What Obama has to defend:

Michigan (obama ahead by 9.5)
Pennsylvania (Obama ahead by 9.7)
New Hampshire (Obama ahead by 12.7)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 07/15/2008
- laire I'm a Fan of laire 4 fans permalink

I think a lot of people on the left have been lazy in looking into Obama's record and his philosphy of governing. He has always been a moderate he is a progressive but he has always talk about faith issues and family. The only real disappointing issues he has had is the FISA bill and your not going to agree with anyone 100% of the time. The left is a solid group for him he needs the people in the middle and leaning right. America in the historical sense is an anti-intellectual society where in Western Europe they are a pro-intellectual society that is why you see such huge support for Obama in Western Europe and not in America. Also I would add he is a Black man in America with the name Barack Obama so he has some work to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 PM on 07/15/2008
- wedgie I'm a Fan of wedgie 19 fans permalink
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Oh please. Is everyone who disagrees with you, stupid, lazy, ignorant?

Try and come up with a theory that isn't so insulting.

Then maybe someone will listen.

**

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 07/16/2008
- laire I'm a Fan of laire 4 fans permalink

Was your comment to me? I'm just pointing out that the man has always been moderate. I didn't say everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid, laxy or Ignorant. I'm simply saying all the people who keep saying he has shifted are not being accurate. I believe they are being lazy because they are not looking up his record and pass statements and position papers. I believe if more people did that they would understand where he is coming from on many of his issues. I think this is one of the problems with blogging, people will insult you or your thoughts and you are just stating your thoughts on a particular issue. lets have some real dialouge

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 AM on 07/16/2008
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